Debates of May 31st, 2023

Motion in Amendment

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Madam Speaker, the member who is laughing understands exactly what I am saying. One only needs to read her comments.

I think it is a positive thing that we have been encouraged by the Conservative Party to bring in this legislation. However, from my personal perspective, even if the Conservative Party was supporting the concept of affordable, quality child care, I would still be advocating for legislation of this nature because it is good legislation.

If the Conservative Party was not so far to the right, I would be advocating for it, but with today's Conservative Party, it even becomes more important to have this legislation. I listened to the shadow minister. We do not call them critics; we call them shadow ministers. It is kind of scary when we stop to think about how the Conservatives are going to vote on this legislation. If we listen to the critic, we would think they are going to be voting against it.

I look at that, as I know many of my colleagues do, and ask who they are actually listening to. Obviously it is not their constituents. Instead, they try to give a false impression that this is broken. They then go on to talk about all the day care and child care problems, being very critical of the provinces, which have the responsibility of providing child care systems. I wonder if they have the support of the provinces to rip up things of this nature that we are proposing. I wonder if the provinces are aware of just how critical the Conservative Party of Canada is in regard to the performance of provincial governments across this country and those in the territories, because that is who its members are criticizing. We finally have a federal government, a national government, that has a vision of progress, of moving Canada forward on child care, yet we have a Conservative Party that has an attitude of “No, not here in Canada”. It does not want money being spent, which we hear constantly coming from the Conservative Party.

Yes, there is a cost to this. I recognize there is a cost going into the billions of dollars, and I think that is what offends Conservative Party members at the national level. However, let me suggest that if they open their eyes and try to get a better understanding of both the social and economic impact of a progressive policy of this nature, maybe they will do one of their traditional flip-flops, support the legislation and go against what they campaigned about on this issue. We all know the flip-flop they have taken on the price on pollution. Here is another good flip-flop for them, but a flip-flop in a positive way, where they would be supporting a national child care program. That would be encouraging to see the Conservative Party do.

Let us think of the economic advantage. We would have more people in the workforce. We would be making a more equal playing field. Many more women would be able to plan a career and not need to worry about the cost of day care, child care or early learning. These are the advantages. When they get into the workforce, they will be paying taxes, taxes that in all likelihood they might not have been paying because they did not have affordable child care. It is healthier for the economy.

There are parents who have their children in $10-a-day child care. We talk about other issues in Canada, things like inflation. This is helping families today in a very real and tangible way by putting thousands of dollars in their pockets, yet the Conservatives do not like the idea. They need to really start thinking about how society would benefit. It is not just the family who would benefit; it is everyone. All of us benefit when we have programs of this nature.

Bill C-35, in essence, ensures we will continue to have a national child care program and a national commitment to financing and contributing to the care of children. That is a good thing. I hope the Conservatives will flip-flop on this issue and support it.

I see the member is already standing to ask a question. I hope she will give a commitment to support the legislation. That is the question I would pose to her.

[An hon. member]

Bring it home.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I love to hear the Liberals say the Conservative slogan “Bring it home”. It is great to hear them say it.

I received a message this morning from Melissa. Melissa wrote to me and said that she has not been able to find child care since she moved to Peterborough in August. She is looking for before-and-after care for her two kids. The wait-list is crazy. There are 75 kids on the wait-list. She was lucky enough to find a job that allows her to work during the hours her children are in school, but she had to cut down on working full time due to a lack of availability of child care.

I am curious what the member opposite would say to Melissa.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would say to Melissa that the Conservative Party has no ideas. It does not even want to contribute. It does not understand and appreciate what a national program is.

For the very first time, we have a national government demonstrating that it wants to contribute to addressing the issue of child care. That has been a long time coming, and part of the fear is that the Conservatives might try to get rid of that step forward.

I would suggest to Melissa that she might want to consider voting for any other political party but Conservative. Otherwise, child care would be going backward, and that would not be a good thing.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. However, he was very critical of the Conservatives.

The Liberal government also deserves some criticism for not taking into account the fact that Quebec is a model.

On top of that, the contract is for a period of five years. What is the government going to do after that? I think it is looking for a fight between Quebec and Ottawa.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, the member will recall from the comments I made that we looked at how successful the program in Quebec was and saw Quebec is leading the country on the issue. We knew if we took the idea from Quebec and applied it universally from coast to coast to coast, we would see some very positive results, like affordable, quality child care and more women being engaged in the workforce. We are already witnessing that. A number of provinces are already at $10-a-day day care, and we have the highest percentage in North America of women engaged in the workforce. This is just the beginning, recognizing that Quebec has led the way.

One of the nice things about being in a federal system is that when one province does something and excels at it, Ottawa has the opportunity to promote, encourage and, in this case, take specific action so that future generations will benefit, as with the program that was introduced by the Province of Quebec. I love the fact that the Province of Quebec brought in the program.

[Don Davies, NDP, Vancouver Kingsway, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I have sat in the chamber listening, and the Conservatives have put up speaker after speaker claiming they care about child care and talking about the urgent need for child care. They also stand in this House and talk about the very real crisis that most Canadians are finding themselves in economically. However, what are we debating in the House tonight? Anybody watching this should know that we are debating a Conservative motion to delete the short title of the bill on child care. They have 15 Conservative members speaking to their motion to delete the short title of a bill on child care. If that does not speak to a disingenuousness in getting to the real issues facing Canadians, I do not know what does. Talk about a waste of this House's time.

I am wondering if my hon. colleague can comment on that. What does it tell him? The Conservatives say they really care about child care and want to deal with the real economic issues facing Canadians, but does he think the Conservatives putting up 15 speakers to talk about deleting the short title of the bill is consistent with that?

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I recognize right up front that in a minority situation it has been good to see progressive policies where the NDP and the Liberals have been able to work together so that we can ensure that this important legislation ultimately will be able to pass. The member highlights a situation that is very obvious. The Conservatives are putting up this number of speakers, because ultimately they like to delay legislation and prevent it from passing.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is funny, because I have this speech that I wrote, which I am very passionate about, even though I am Conservative. I am a mom who needed child care, and I do not even know where to begin on this, because I am listening to the men across the room telling us what it is like to be a mom and how difficult it is to seek child care. I am listening to men across there.

I am looking at a member from Saskatchewan. I have great respect for her. She is a mom who has come here and had children while on the job, but not in the chamber. She has been able to raise her children as a member of Parliament, and I just want to start by correcting the record by saying to please delete the last 15 minutes of what has happened in the House of Commons, because if we want to look at absolute mistruths, we can maybe look at the speech from the member for Winnipeg North. I am sorry about that.

I think that comes, because I just listened to him talk about a woman from Peterborough who he advised.

Maybe they can stop having their conversations over there and listen to women speak.

I was trying to talk about the fact that the member talked about a women from Peterborough and went against my colleague, who is one of the strongest members of Parliament I have seen here. He told her that her constituent should maybe vote for somebody else if they really want to care about women and everything else. I would like to say to the members I am looking across at to please recognize the work we have done and to recognize the women who are sitting in this House and the work we have done. The only reason we are here is that we are strong women. The member will please stop trying to deflate us and stop trying to mansplain to us. We get it. We are leaders who have been voted for by our communities, and not just by women.

That is why I want to share with everybody that when we are bringing these things forward, it is because our constituents do not agree with what the Liberals have brought forward. In my case, 128,000 people elected me. That is about 50%, which is happy, joyful and great for me. I am listening to them. Not everybody voted for me, but I do try my best to represent everybody there.

My opinion may be different, but I want to remind members that the people I was elected by are different as well. They are different from other constituents. They have different needs in different regions. They may have different socio-economic values. They may be new immigrants in communities. They may have started in Newfoundland and ended up in Vancouver for trades jobs, and we have to recognize that people in Canada are different.

As I was listening to speeches, I understand where the heat gets up. It is disrespect for the women in this place that I have listened to, and after eight years, I am tired of listening to it.

Let us get to my speech. Let us get to the fact that the reason there are women in this place is that we do see we need child care, and the reason I am here today is that I was able to have child care. To the New Democrats, it was important to me when I needed child care, so they should stop saying that it is already in—

[An hon. member]

Then quite delaying it.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

It is already in place. The provinces already signed the agreement.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

I am all good. I do not need anyone to continue to yell. Perhaps I will remind the member from the NDP sitting in the back corner that the reason they are in the back corner is that their policies are not votable by all Canadians. The fact is that he is yelling that this is being delayed. As I look across at the minister, she is proud of all of these agreements she has signed with our provinces and territories, so members can stop telling us we are delaying a bill and hurting children. It is not hurting children. The minister has said herself, time and time again, that she has signed the agreements, and the only reason we have the legislation is so that Conservatives do not get into power, which we will, and get rid of it.

The reason I said this is very important is that they are—

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Get rid of it.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

That is exactly what I am coming to. They continue to put words in my mouth. I thank the member for Alfred-Pellan for continuing to put words in my mouth. As I have said, Conservatives are worried about child care, and I am going to continue.

I have never seen such rudeness. Were members drinking or something? Is that why they are being so inappropriate? Angelo, were you drinking?

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Order.

The hon. parliamentary secretary is rising on a point of order.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, from the moment the member stood up, I have not said a word. I have sat in my chair and I have been listening respectfully to the member opposite. I do not think it is appropriate to be accusing members of drinking inside the chamber. I think she should withdraw that particular comment, and continue on with her speech.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I will also suggest to members that we are here for debate. Let us have a debate, rather than just yelling at each other across the way. I think all issues that come before this House, regardless of what they are or who they are for, are important to Canadians. Let us have the debate that is on the docket for tonight, and let us be respectful of one another.

The hon. member for Elgin—Middlesex—London.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to withdraw that comment. Perhaps we could have some more dignity and respect in this place.

As I have indicated, women have been increasing their presence in the workforce over the past few decades. According to Statistics Canada, in 2020, 47.1% of the Canadian workforce are women. That is something we should be very proud of. We know that the reason that women are in the workforce is because there are people who are able to support them.

I was very fortunate because in my own world I had parents and I had a husband, who, unfortunately, was unable to work because of a disability, who were able to care for my children. I also put them in a day care for a number of years. With five children, I have used a mix of different sources, also due to the income I had. Our family's base income was $45,000, combined, at the time that I had five children. If anyone wants to talk about children and parents struggling, $45,000, five children, it is tough.

That is why I am talking about it today. Not only is it tough, it is tough when women are trying to get in the workplace and there is no spot. That is exactly why we are bringing this, talking about it at third reading and talking about it at report stage. The problem here is that a labour strategy needs to be connected to this, and there is not a labour strategy.

The Liberal government has been here since 2015, and in 2017, when I was doing this, we talked about the wages and recognized that at $22 an hour, people were leaving this type of work because they were not able to pay the bills. At $22 an hour, there was not enough income for them to pay the bills.

People were leaving, and we know there is a retention issue. That is one of the greatest challenges. Until we have a labour force that can fill these spots, Canadian parents are being sold a bill of goods. It is important that we have sustainable child care. It is important that we have quality child care. It is important that we have choices in child care, whether it is Milestones child care, which is private, or the not-for-profits in our community, we need it all.

We need to have an entire selection, a cornucopia of different strategies so that we can deal with this. There need to be the options for parents who may be living in Toronto or my town of Sparta.

I have one constituent who wrote to me and indicated that it is a 35-minute drive for her to get child care. Getting to child care is very difficult, especially if one is looking at having almost two full hours of their day, driving there and back, and there and back again for pickup. These are the types of things that we need to consider. Accessibility for parents is one of the most important things.

Another constituent wrote to me, and I am just going to read parts of it, due to privacy, I do not want people to know her name. She was given notice to resign if she failed to return to work by the end of the next week. She had been trying to explain her situation to the manager, who was very reluctant. The issue for her was that the closest day care in her neighbourhood, the only day care in that area, had enough space for eight more children, but due to shortages of day care staff, they could not take any more children.

These are the problems. When we are talking about this, I have heard that Conservatives do not support child care. We support child care, but we want child care to be more universal. We understand that the cost of child care is exorbitant. When I said I was making $45,000 a year, $1,200 a month was going to child care. I understand when money is tight. I understand what it is like to feed bagels to my kids because I did not have a lot of money. I really want members to stop banging on us for being Conservatives.

I had another constituent talk about day care, saying there is a serious supply issue for the current demand for licensed child care access for families. Their son is nearly two years old and they have still not been offered a space in a day care facility. They put his name on the list in September 2021, for infant programs. It was clear that there will never be a spot.

Another said that her son has been on the wait list since March 2022, and he is 50th on the list. That is another email. I talked about the person who was 35 minutes away from day care. I have another person saying that there are no, spelling no with about 25 “o”s, spots in licensed centres or homes.

This is the problem here. It is great to have this program. I believe in child care. I always have believed in child care. However, there needs to be something that works for parents.

This is where I am going to put my mom hat on. For years, I always said “It is up to the family.” We just went through COVID and the fact is that, like every mom in this place, every daughter and every sister, we know a lot fell on the shoulders of women. That is why I will fight to ensure that we have a child care program that works for families and especially works for women.

[Karina Gould, Liberal, Minister of Families]

Mr. Speaker, I hear the passion that is there and I appreciate my hon. colleague's support for child care. Every single one of the issues that she raised is why this legislation is important and why this program is important. All of those issues would be in place if we were not moving forward with it.

In fact, the Conservative plan has been to provide tax credits. Those do not build spaces. Those do not increase wages. Those do not build a system. I hear that the member is saying they are not here to delay. In fact, we are at report stage and the amendment proposed is to delete the short title, so I do not really understand how that amendment to this legislation is addressing any of the issues that the Conservatives are putting forward.

Will the hon. member be supporting Bill C-35? Will you put your words on the table that you support access to child care and actually do it?

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Of course, members need to make sure that they run their questions through the Chair and not ask a question directly to the member.

The hon. member for Elgin—Middlesex—London.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, finally we are getting to more of a discussion and that is part of the problem here: It has become so politicized. I have listened to speeches time and time again that are just about political wedges. I want this to be about parents and I want this to be about the children and the quality day care that they get.

I have just heard from the member from Peterborough that a child care facility that had been operating for 17 years just closed its doors to the 168 or 172 children or families who are serviced. We can do better. I just believe that the government put the cart before the horse and, unfortunately, we do not have the skills that will support this, but we do need to have a child care program that works.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Mr. Speaker, as a mother, as well, for me this is a very important discussion that we are having today. As someone who raised her children on a low income, child care is vital.

I am trying, with all due respect, to understand: Why are we here today debating an amendment to the short title of the bill when we could be debating at third reading this very important bill and actually seeing families receive the child care that they need and deserve? I am just trying to understand and to offer an opportunity for my colleague to clarify. Why are we not getting this done and why are we seeing delays from the Conservatives?

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the first thing is that when we talk about delays in this House, we have to understand the process. We know that these agreements have been signed, so the impact of this is not to the children and families whom this bill is connecting with. That is probably one of the key things that I want to point out.

We also recognize that this bill is very flawed. As I indicated, when we know that two in three children are on waiting lists and one in three children get spots, we talk about that lottery. We are discussing this because we really want there to be more of a discussion, more of what I did not see here 20 minutes ago and more of where I am seeing people want to talk about this. A lot of times, we just have too much ideology instead of more practicality.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Speaker, what an amazing speech that was to hear, from a woman who has so much lived experience, has worked on this file, has been a parliamentarian and who knows that balance and knows how challenging it is to find quality, reliable child care and affordability.

What we have seen repeatedly is that the reason we are here is that we are trying to ensure that all voices are heard, but, based on the amendments that were put forth through committee by the Conservatives, they were not. Therefore, it is very important that we read into the record and people hear the stories, like that of Melissa, that we have talked about and the stories that seem to be ignored. Saskatchewan is a child care desert, where 90% of families cannot access child care.

What are the member's thoughts, based on what we have seen tonight? Does she really believe that this is just a political wedge? We have heard from the minister that this is all an anti-Conservative bill, and I am curious to hear her thoughts on that.

[Karen Vecchio, Conservative, Elgin—Middlesex—London, ON]

Mr. Speaker, unfortunately, that is exactly how I see it as well. I see that there are intentions in this bill that are very positive because child care is necessary for families, to be able to go to work and provide for their families. Absolutely, I would not disagree with that at all. However, when I listened to the speeches, with respect to the minister because I know how hard she works, I counted the number of times she said “Conservative” in the first three minutes and it was a lot more than the number of times that she said the word “child”. Therefore, I recognized that we were not talking about children; we were talking about Conservatives. I was wondering what this was about, and so those were some of my questions there.