Debates of May 9th, 2023

Motion that debate be not further adjourned

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is incredibly rich that that member would make that point of order, when he is basically doing the exact same thing by saying that the minister is not telling the truth. He cannot do indirectly what he cannot do directly, and he was certainly doing it indirectly.

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

We are descending into the debate we are actually having. The hon. minister still had the floor, but I do not know if he was done. Okay.

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, there is still an issue on the table: asking for an apology for impugning another member of the House. I would ask that he respect that and apologize.

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

When the minister stands, he can answer, or not, if he feels like it.

The hon. member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands has the floor.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Speaker, what we are seeing today is the Liberals admitting they have no idea how firearms regulation works in this country and what it takes to lawfully obtain and transport a firearm.

When I was 12 years old, I took my hunter safety course, and then I had to apply for a possession and acquisition licence. There is an extremely arduous process one has to go through to get licensed and to be able to acquire a firearm, including background checks, checks that are run daily by the system.

My question for the minister is actually quite simple. Does he even have a possession and acquisition licence, or has he even taken the hunter safety course in Canada?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have respect for gun owners. I know they place a premium on safety. I know that, when they apply for a PAL certificate, they follow all of the regulations—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

Order.

The hon. Minister of Public Safety has the floor.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I realize there was a lot of enthusiasm for the answer I was just giving, naturally, because I was showing that we have respect for gun owners who do follow the law. This legislation is not about targeting them, and the more Conservatives try to spread that disinformation, the more they are just resorting to their same old—

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

We have a point of order from the hon. member for Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Speaker, using “disinformation” was brought up earlier today. It implies that members across the way are lying. Especially being the Minister of Public Safety and knowing the law in this country, he should know the law in this place, which is that one cannot say indirectly what one is not supposed to say directly. I would ask, once again, for the member to apologize.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if the member is correct and disinformation is not permitted in the House, virtually every single question from Conservatives during question period would be ruled out of order.

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

On the same point of order, the hon. member for Courtenay—Alberni.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am going back again to disinformation. We keep hearing Conservatives telling hunters and people who live in rural Canada that their guns would be taken away by this legislation, which is completely false. We want to get to committee to work through the amendments so we can ensure that hunters and indigenous people continue to obtain their right to hunt and that they not lose their weapons. In fact—

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

We are descending into debate.

On the same point of order, the hon. member for Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the member should apologize as well. He knows very well that, at the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, we proved hunting rifles were on the banned—

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

We are descending into the debate we are having. This is the interpretation.

The hon. parliamentary secretary, on a point of order.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I am just curious if there are any other members who should be apologizing to this member. Should the 337 of us all apologize to him?

[The Deputy Speaker, Chris d'Entremont]

How about this? On behalf of everyone, I will just apologize.

Let us just continue with the debate.

The hon. member for Port Moody—Coquitlam has the floor.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we were in the House until midnight last night with the same sort of childish antics going back and forth. While these are going on, while people are asking to be apologized to and talking about their feelings being hurt, children in my community are being killed by guns, ghost guns, illegal guns. This is what we are talking about. We are talking about the balance between those law-abiding gun owners who deserve and want the right to be able to use their firearms in a responsible way and families who are losing children, along with women who are intimidated and hurt by guns that are not legally allowed in this country.

If the minister does not mind, could he just explain again why we cannot go through 145 amendments at this pace and still save lives in this country?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I know my NDP colleague's concerns are genuinely felt in her community, as they are felt in mine and indeed right across the country.

With regard to her specific question on ghost guns, we recently had a cross-border crime forum summit here in Ottawa with our American counterparts. What we are seeing coming out of that are concrete results, such as more capacity to trace illegal guns and more opportunities to leverage new technology to go after ghost guns. Ghost guns are a concern that has been expressed to me by chiefs from law enforcement right across the country. It is by doing this tangible work in collaboration with the United States that we are going to be able to build on the record number of illegal firearms that were seized at the border last year and leverage new technology to go after ghost guns to keep her community safe, and keep all our communities safe, from gun violence.

[Marcus Powlowski, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON]

Mr. Speaker, guns and gangs are a real problem in Thunder Bay. The other day, there was a shootout in a housing complex. People are genuinely worried about the problem in Thunder Bay.

Could the minister please talk about his announcement this morning about giving more money to police forces to deal with guns and gangs, and how this may help us in Thunder Bay to deal with this problem of guns?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in fact, as I mentioned earlier during this debate, yesterday the government announced an additional $390 million that will go directly to support law enforcement to dismantle and take down organized criminals who use guns. I would also point out that the original bill, in its proper form, includes raising maximum sentences against hardened gun traffickers as a means of deterring them. It also would provide law enforcement with additional tools around wiretapping and surveillance so that they can share information and use that to disturb, dismantle and stop organized criminal networks that use guns to support and supply their trade.

I have assured the member that we will work closely with the province and his community to see that their work in Thunder Bay is supported as well.

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we have a real problem with gangs and violence. Violent crime is skyrocketing. We are talking about Bill C-21, which talks about taking legal guns from legal gun owners.

I want to ask the minister, since the government uses evidence-based policies, what percentage of crimes are committed by people with illegal guns, and what percentage are committed by people who have actual legal guns? The answer to the second is going to be zero. After 35 years in policing, I know that answer. Why not put that money into education programs and forget Bill C-21? Scrap Bill C-21. It would not be effective.

I agree that we need to have gun laws, but the government is targeting people who have legal guns. Why not go after the ones who have illegal guns, the criminals?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there are at least two serious mistakes in the premise of the Conservative member's question. The first is that we are not going after criminals. In Bill C-21, as I have just mentioned, we would raise maximum sentences from 10 to 14 years for illegal gun traffickers. That is an important and powerful signal to anyone who would try to terrorize our communities that they will run the risk of going to jail for a longer period of time.

The Conservative member also referred to prevention. That is precisely what the government is doing with a $250-million building safer communities fund. I would point out that the Conservatives have opposed the building safer communities fund's allocations, which will save lives through prevention by providing mental health services and other supports for people who are at most risk. The Conservatives are also against Bill C-21, which would give law enforcement the additional tools to go after criminals who use firearms to commit crimes. That is why their position is so misguided.

On this side of the House, we are doing the work. We are making sure that we pass responsible gun control legislation, but we are also taking action at the border and advancing strong prevention strategies.