Debates of June 14th, 2023

Public Safety

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I invite the leader of the Conservative Party to repeat that allegation outside of the House. I will absolutely reject it. I knew on May 30—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

Order. I am going to ask the members to take a deep breath. I know some of the topics we are discussing here are very emotional, and we get carried away, but I am going to ask everyone to allow the minister to answer so the Leader of the Opposition can hear the answer.

The hon. minister, please continue.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada who misleads the House when he implies my knowledge before May 30. I had made it absolutely clear that that was the day on which I found out.

I have taken corrective steps internally with my office, an office for which I am responsible, to this Parliament and to the Canadian public. That is why, immediately upon knowing the fact that the prisoner was transferred to a medium-security institution, I raised it with the commissioner. I have spoken with the representatives of the families of Leslie Mahaffy and Kristen French. We will always—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. Leader of the Opposition.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I have stated all these things outside of the House of Commons, so whatever threat he is trying to make, he can act on.

More important than that is that he did not act. His office knew on March 2. He expects us to believe that his staff just forgot to walk down the hall and inform him that perhaps the most notorious killer in Canadian history was being moved out of a maximum-security penitentiary to enjoy more luxuries and more freedoms in a medium-security penitentiary.

Finally, he has the power now to designate that mass murderers should all go into maximum-security prisons. He could have done that weeks ago. Why has he not done it, and why has he not resigned?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada lays out a prescription for political interference, which foreshadows what Canadians would get with a Conservative government.

On this side of the House, we recognize the independence of those decisions. When I became aware of the fact that Bernardo had been transferred to a medium-security institution, I raised it with the commissioner. I raised the concern—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I am going to have to interrupt again. It is getting way out of hand. I want everyone to take a deep breath.

The hon. minister.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, in the questions that are posed by the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada, Canadians know they will get a prescription for political interference. On this side of the House, we are doing it the right way.

Today, I will be issuing new ministerial instructions to the Correctional Service of Canada to make sure that it puts victims' rights at the centre of decisions to transfer and that it informs victims' families before those transfers take place. We will always stand up for their rights.

[Pierre Poilievre, Conservative, Leader of the Opposition]

Mr. Speaker, it is the legitimate power of a public safety minister to issue directives about classes of prisoners. The former public safety minister, Ralph Goodale, did that about prisoners suspected of having contraband. That is normal. That is a power that the minister has today. He could classify all mass murderers as requiring maximum-security detention. That is a decision he could make now. It is a decision he could have made on March 2, when his office became aware that this monster was being transferred out of a maximum-security prison.

Given that he has not done that, and because he has misled the House, will the Prime Minister fire him?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the leader of the Conservative Party of Canada did not hear my last answer. We will be issuing new directions to the Correctional Service of Canada to ensure that it puts victims' rights at the centre of these decisions, to be sure that it informs victims' families before these transfers take place and to be sure that I am directly notified on a go-forward basis.

What did they get with Conservatives the last time they were in government? They got cuts to the Correctional Service of Canada in the amount of $300 million in their last year of government. That is the difference between what Canadians get with Conservatives and what they get with our government.

Democratic Institutions

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the government must launch an inquiry into Chinese interference before we rise for the summer. The government appears more open to the idea, but it is not making much headway because it refuses to clarify its intentions. This is because of a word that starts with “p”. Every time we mention an inquiry, the government talks about a public process. I looked everywhere but could not find a definition for “public process”. Potential commissioners probably do not know exactly what it means either. A public inquiry is a clear concept; it is even defined by law.

Why not just announce an independent commission of public inquiry? That is what everyone wants. This is what it comes down to.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question.

I share the interest of all parliamentarians in finding the right process and, as I have said, a public inquiry has never been ruled out. However, it is a matter of finding the right way to do the work in a respectful manner, while taking into account the importance of protecting highly confidential security information, in order to rebuild Canadians' trust.

That is what we are going to do, hopefully with the support of the opposition parties.

[Alain Therrien, Bloc, La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Speaker, they are still talking about a process. It is not easy to get the facts from the government.

It seems like the government is hemming and hawing over whether to hold a public inquiry on Chinese interference. It must do it, because this is too important. The government has a duty to launch an inquiry before the House adjourns. In order for that to happen, it must do two things. First, it must announce the format of the inquiry, which will be a commission of inquiry. Second, it must ensure that the commissioner is truly independent. No one will accept the job as long as the government keeps hiding its intentions.

Will it launch a commission of inquiry, yes or no?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Mr. Speaker, as I mentioned yesterday, the letter we received from the Bloc Québécois is an important step towards building a consensus about the right way to move forward. Our colleague put forward the idea of an independent public inquiry. Perhaps he did not hear when I clearly said that it is an option the government is considering.

However, the process for this public inquiry must be properly defined. How will it protect top secret information? What will the time frame be? Who are the right people to lead this process?

Public Safety

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, what is going on in the office of the public security minister? We just found out that his office was aware of the transfer of Paul Bernardo out of maximum security three months ago, but the minister claims that he only knew about it on May 30. If the minister cannot keep his house in order, how is he going to keep the country safe?

When will the minister stop waiting beside a fax machine and start checking his emails for these serious updates?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, as I said earlier in this chamber, I was notified on May 30, the day after Paul Bernardo was transferred to a medium-security institution. I have taken corrective steps to deal with the issues within my office, and going forward, I have indicated that we will be issuing new instructions to the Correctional Service of Canada to put victims' rights at the very centre of transfer decisions and make sure that victims' families are notified. This is something I will continue to be focused on every day: defending victims' rights.

[Jagmeet Singh, NDP, Burnaby South, BC]

Mr. Speaker, the problem does not end there.

The director of CSIS confirmed in committee that his service had indeed informed the Minister of Emergency Preparedness, when he was Minister of Public Safety, of the information involving the member for Wellington—Halton Hills.

The director said that he had shared information with the Department of Public Safety with very specific instructions to share it with the minister.

Can the minister confirm in the House that he is now able to read his emails?

[Bill Blair, Liberal, President of the King’s Privy Council for Canada and Minister of Emergency Preparedness]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have an opportunity to clear up a misunderstanding the member opposite appears to have. The national security and intelligence adviser, the public safety officials and Director Vigneault have all been very clear in that ministers and their offices do not have direct access to top secret electronic networks. Mr. Vigneault did not send his note to me, nor did he notify me that the information had been sent. Director Vigneault had many opportunities to brief me but, unfortunately, never briefed me on the contents of his note.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, when we learned last week that serial killer Paul Bernardo was going to leave a maximum security prison, the Minister of Public Safety acted surprised.

According to the CBC, he knew about this for three months. This minister misled Canadians. If ministerial responsibility and honour still mean anything to him, he should resign.

Will he do that?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, as I said, I was shocked by CSC's decision to transfer Mr. Bernardo. I was informed of that decision on May 30.

I am taking corrective steps at my office. It is my responsibility and I take it very seriously.

We will continue to focus on victims' rights. I had a very good conversation with the representatives of the French and Mahaffy families. We will work together to protect victims' rights.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we cannot imagine how much pain, anxiety and indignation the loved ones of Paul Bernardo's victims felt when they learned that the minister had known about the murderer's transfer for three months and said nothing.

It was completely insensitive and downright irresponsible. This minister has lost all credibility when it comes to protecting victims. He needs to resign, right away.

Is he going to resign?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague is mistaken. I was informed of the transfer on May 30, as I have said many times.

Today, I am handling this by taking further action and giving new directives to the CSC. The CSC must notify victims' families before a transfer occurs. I must also be directly briefed as Minister of Public Safety.

We will always protect victims' rights.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Public Safety told Canadians that he relied on the advice of law enforcement to implement the Emergencies Act. That was false. He told Canadians that the Beijing-run police stations in our country were closed, and that was false. Then he told Canadians that he did not know about child rapist and murderer Paul Bernardo’s transfer out of a maximum-security prison. He stood in front of the victims’ families and acted shocked.

He knew for three months; now he is throwing his staff under the bus. Which staff member did he fire?