Debates of June 15th, 2023

Democratic Institutions

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I am very encouraged by the exchanges between my hon. colleague, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, and the Bloc and the NDP. I hope there will be other conversations with the Conservatives. Fighting foreign interference is not a partisan issue. If we work together, we can create new authorities, provide resources and strengthen them to fight foreign interference. That is the most important thing.

[Christine Normandin, Bloc, Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleagues must realize by now that the Bloc Québécois will not give up. Public trust in democracy is at stake. The people are calling for an independent public commission of inquiry. Its commissioner must be approved by the House. The commission will have to report on its work, not in five years, not in two years, but in the next few months. We realize that this is an immense task. That is why we are working with the government, and they know it. We have our work cut out for us. Will the government announce this commission?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her co-operation. Yes, a public inquiry is still an option. That is exactly what my hon. colleague the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities is negotiating with the opposition. The most important thing is that we are now working with Canadians to create new authorities in order to better protect not only our democratic institutions, but Canadians as well.

Public Safety

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, what do the Minister of Public Safety, the President of the Privy Council, the former minister of foreign affairs and the Prime Minister have in common? Obviously, they are unable to check their email. That can be dangerous. Is this government aware that it is retraumatizing the families of the victims of one of the most fiendish murderers in Canadian history?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, it is absolutely true that the crime in question probably comes close to being Canada's most serious crime. It is such a serious crime. I can also say with certainty that our correctional system is independent. As I explained earlier, staff were informed of the possibility that the individual in question might be transferred. Once all the details were confirmed, the Prime Minister was informed. It was—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Mr. Speaker, we have seen fiasco after fiasco with the government. The level of disorganization and negligence from Liberal ministers is often appalling.

After the public safety minister was failed to be informed of the transfer of one of the most brutal criminals in Canadian history, we now know that the Prime Minister's Office was informed three months ago. The Liberals could have used that time to ensure the victims' families were warned.

How does this keep happening on such serious files? Why are the Liberals showing such clear incompetence? When will they fix this?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, as I stated, in March, staff were informed of the possibility of a transfer. There were still many details that were not certain. It was not until the end of May, once the details were confirmed, that the Prime Minister was briefed.

I would say for the member opposite, who knows that Correctional Services is independent and that decisions must not be made with political interference, is that we have to have a conversation, as a House, about how we do not interfere with Correctional Services but also ensure that a transfer of this nature does not occur. That needs to be a mature conversation that does not involve a lot of politics.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Speaker, just when we think things cannot get any worse with the Liberal government, the Prime Minister says “hold my beer”, because it is a game to the Prime Minister. That is what this is.

For three months, the public safety minister knew that child murderer and Scarborough rapist Paul Bernardo was being moved from maximum to medium-security prison and did nothing. Now we know the Prime Minister also knew for three months and also did nothing.

This is not a game. Incompetence does not even begin to describe that leadership. Canadians deserve better and these victims' families deserve better. Therefore, will the public safety minister—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. government House leader.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know the member for Peterborough—Kawartha well, but I do know that she is very sincere when she cares about these cases, and she would know that the Prime Minister would be deeply impacted as a father and as a Canadian by the horror of these crimes. Any assertion to the opposite is just frankly not constructive to the debate that we need to have.

I said that Correctional Services operates independently and that it cannot be interfered with politically. I would also say that we have to be very careful, when dealing with the victims of crime, that we do not politicize that or attempt to use it in a way other than to ask how we stop—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. member for Peterborough—Kawartha.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Mr. Speaker, if the Prime Minister is so upset, why will he not stand up and answer the question, and talk to the victims' families? If the Liberals care so much, then do it.

I have said this before: The buck stops with the minister. Stop the blame game. This is people's lives. You are in the government, the Prime Minister, and there is no one below that.

Again, there is duty here: Either fire the public safety minister or resign. That is it; those are the options.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I want to remind the hon. members to place their questions through the Chair and not speak directly to each other.

The hon. government House leader.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the duty that each of us share as hon. members in this chamber is, on behalf of the people whom we are fortunate enough to represent, to attempt to the best of our ability to keep them safe; to make sure that when they are harmed we do everything in our power to restore them; and to make sure, yes, that we have a corrections system that is free from interference. Why do we say that? Because we have one of the best correctional services systems in the world.

If we are talking about the rightful outrage that we all have in this circumstance, we have to temper it in a mature conversation on how to balance those two priorities.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Speaker, does the Minister of Public Safety expect us to believe that for three months his office withheld information from him that the most notorious murderer and serial rapist in Canada had been transferred to a medium-security prison?

It is clear that the minister likely knew about the transfer in March and did nothing. The entire government likely knew and did nothing about it, including the Prime Minister's Office.

When will the Prime Minister finally admit that he has lost total control of his cabinet and ask the minister to resign?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, I want to begin by taking a moment to express my support for the families of Leslie Mahaffy and Kristen French, which have no doubt been traumatized time and time again by the decision that was taken under Correctional Service Canada. That is why, when I found out on May 30, I took immediate action to reach out to the commissioner to express those concerns.

I want to work with all members to make sure that this does not happen again. The directions that I have put into motion will ensure that I am directly briefed and, most important, that victims are given advance notice before these decisions are taken in the future.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is in town, so why will he not stand and answer these questions?

The minister has misled Canadians before. He has said at least 11 times that law enforcement requested the Emergencies Act; that was false. He said that Bill C-21 was not going to ban guns used by hunters and farmers; that was false. He said that Chinese police stations in Canada had been shut down; that was false.

Canadians have lost confidence in the minister. Will he do the honourable thing and just resign?

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, on each and every one of those priorities, this government has defended public safety in the interests of all Canadians.

When it comes to fighting against gun violence, we are banning AR-15s; the Conservatives want to make them legal again. Last year, when we faced an unprecedented national emergency, we invoked the Emergencies Act, a decision validated by Judge Rouleau independently. What did the Conservatives do—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

I am sorry, I am going to interrupt. The noise level is starting to build up again and we are having a hard time hearing the answer. The hon. member for Haldimand—Norfolk asked a question; she would like to hear the answer. If there are people yelling behind her, it is very difficult for her to hear.

Maybe the hon. member could start about 15 seconds from the end.

The hon. minister.

[Marco Mendicino, Liberal, Eglinton—Lawrence, ON]

Mr. Speaker, when it comes to fighting gun violence, we are banning AR-15s. The Conservatives want to make them legal again. When it came to the decision to invoke the Emergencies Act, we defended that decision to restore public safety. The Conservatives were doubling down, encouraging illegal protesters to stay in the region they should have left. We will always—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Anthony Rota]

The hon. member for Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister is in Ottawa but, strangely enough, he is not rising to answer questions.

The Minister of Public Safety feigned surprise last week when the criminal Paul Bernardo was transferred from a maximum-security prison to a medium-security prison, yet he had known about it for three months. In fact, even the Prime Minister's Office knew about it.

No one did anything. Everyone looked the other way. This is Liberal incompetence in all its glory.

When will the Minister of Public Safety resign?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, this is a very serious situation. Everyone was concerned about this tragedy.

However, it is important to remember that our correctional system is independent. It is essential that the decision to transfer someone be made by the correctional service.

Now, there are a lot of emotions, and I understand that. I feel the same way, but we have to talk—