Debates of June 16th, 2023

Public Safety

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Madam Speaker, the government likes to deny its role in the transfer of killer Paul Bernardo from a maximum-security prison to a medium-security prison, but it is responsible. The Liberals passed Bill C-83, which allowed for this transfer. In fact, the Minister of Public Safety knew for three months and did nothing to stop this transfer. Why does he not do the honourable thing and resign?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety]

Madam Speaker, I want to express how troubling it is that the opposition continues to bring up a horrific crime that is impacting not only victims of this criminal but all victims across this country, some of whom have reached out to me. To spread misinformation that Bill C-83 is in any way responsible for this is irresponsible. That bill ended segregation and put people into structured intervention units. It has absolutely nothing to do with classification and where offenders are placed in our prison system.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Madam Speaker, I think Canadians are really tired of the government's fake rage. The Prime Minister, in 2015, promised Canadians accountability, yet his Minister of Public Safety has misled this House on a minimum of five occasions. Most recently, he misled the House on the fact that he received a briefing about the transfer of Paul Bernardo from a maximum-security prison to a medium-security prison. Why does he not show just a little bit of respect for Canadians, a little bit of respect for the House and a little bit of respect for the victims of Paul Bernardo and resign?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, of course, the member opposite knows that we all have the deepest regard and respect not only for the victims of Paul Bernardo but for the entire country that he traumatized by these events.

As the member knows, we are all horrified anytime we hear these crimes raised, but we also know that we have an independent corrections system that makes decisions about the transfer of inmates independently. It is supposed to be free from politics. What we need is a mature conversation about how we deal with this and our rightful outrage, making sure that we continue—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

The hon. member for Kelowna—Lake Country.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Madam Speaker, serial killer and serial rapist Paul Bernardo was transferred to a medium-security facility, and a previous Liberal bill, Bill C-83, was helpful in allowing this to happen. The public safety minister said that there should be a review to determine if Bernardo should go back to a maximum-security facility. This is unbelievable.

The Liberals changing laws allowed this monster of our time more freedoms and comforts. When will the minister take public safety seriously and reverse changes the Liberals made that allowed for Bernardo to have more comforts and freedoms?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I think we have to be very careful. These are horrific, grievous crimes.

The inference that there was some other system is patently not true. The reality is that transfers in this country have always been done independent of government and remain outside of politics.

I am certain the member's outrage on this is equal to mine, but we need to make sure that we respect the independence of corrections and have a mature conversation about how we deal with this issue and the emotions that we rightly have about it while maintaining the independence of corrections.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Madam Speaker, the friends and families of Bernardo's victims deserve a better answer than that.

Yesterday, the Liberals had an opportunity to expedite a Conservative bill that would have kept serial killers and rapists in maximum security, but they rejected it. Victims of crime are constantly the bottom priority of these soft-on-crime Liberals. The Conservatives offered a way to quickly fix the mess the Liberals have created, but they rejected it.

Again, when will the minister take public safety seriously and reverse course on the changes the Liberals made so that people like Bernardo do not have access to more freedom?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, I do not doubt the member for a second when she talks about her concern for victims. I am concerned that she would cast aspersions on any member of this House, as if we do not share equally in her concern for victims. Every single person in this House has been touched by crime, unfortunately many times viscerally and in ways that were very destructive.

The way to meet that is with evidence. The way to meet that is to make sure that we have the best policies to keep our communities safe, not to let emotion lead the debate, as it did in the United States, as an example. Newt Gingrich, who was the father of a movement, said it was the biggest mistake of his career and a disaster.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Madam Speaker, for three days now, we have been calling for the Minister of Public Safety to resign. He is still in office. For three days now, we have been asking the Prime Minister to answer our questions. He has not. He does not have the guts to explain to the families of Bernardo's victims why he created conditions that allowed Bernardo to be transferred to a medium-security prison. Bill C-83 allowed that to happen.

Is the government sorry for what it did?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, that is not the case at all. It is very unfortunate that such things are being said, especially when we know that our correctional system is founded on independence and that we have one of the best correctional systems in the world.

If they want to discuss the importance of this issue and the emotions it stirs up, that is entirely valid. However, it is important to have that conversation responsibly and honestly.

[Dominique Vien, Conservative, Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC]

Madam Speaker, Bill C‑83 is the latest in a series of errors, questionable decisions, backtracking and contradictions we have seen from this government when it comes to protecting victims. This time, the families of Bernardo's victims are suffering a second time because the government has allowed this dangerous criminal to enjoy less strict conditions.

Can the government reverse its decision and support our proposal from yesterday to keep dangerous criminals in maximum-security prisons?

[David Lametti, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Madam Speaker, Bill C‑83 has nothing to do with the current situation and it has nothing to do with the correctional service's unfortunate decision regarding Mr. Bernardo.

Bill C-83 is a response to a Supreme Court of Canada ruling and to what we have heard from other experts, which is that solitary confinement violates the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. We have created another type of structured intervention to address the problem.

I can say that Bill C-83 has nothing to do with the current situation.

Democratic Institutions

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Madam Speaker, we have just one week left until the House rises for the summer. There is only one week left for the government to finally launch the commission of inquiry into Chinese interference that the public has been calling for since last winter.

I urge my Liberal colleagues to face reality. They must all realize by now that this commission of inquiry is inevitable. Above all, I appeal to their democratic values. There is a real risk. They must also realize that such a commission would absolutely have to publish its recommendations on how to better protect democracy before the next election.

Will the government give the green light to this independent public commission of inquiry?

[Pam Damoff, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety]

Madam Speaker, as the hon. member knows, the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs has indicated that that is an option on the table. We are currently reviewing all options on how we move forward.

However, let us be really clear: All of our elections have been fair. They have been determined to be fair and there was no interference. We will always take action when a hostile foreign actor is trying to interfere in our country.

[René Villemure, Bloc, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Madam Speaker, hope springs eternal, but as Paul Valéry added, it is like walking a tightrope.

The government says it wants to work together, but there is only one week left for parliamentary business. It has one week to announce a commission of inquiry, and it does not have carte blanche. The government must have the consensus of the House regarding who will lead the commission. It must give the commissioner the flexibility to define the terms of reference. It must ensure that the commission can conclude its work before the next election.

The clock is ticking. The government must announce this commission of inquiry immediately, so why waste precious time?

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs]

Madam Speaker, we are optimistic that these conversations are ongoing. The Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs has received the leader of the Bloc's letter with some suggestions and recommendations. The minister is having fruitful conversations with party leaders across the aisle.

There are important details that must be determined in relation to a public inquiry, such as what the terms are, what the mandate is and how this would work. We are only going to do that by working together. That is precisely what the minister is working on.

Public Safety

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Madam Speaker, the Minister of Public Safety's failure to prevent the transfer of notorious killer Paul Bernardo to a medium-security facility was not a mistake. It was a direct consequence of the Liberals' soft-on-crime policies, like Bill C-83.

Yesterday, Conservatives gave the government an opportunity to rectify this injustice, but it voted us down. Canadians are watching. The Minister of Public Safety needs to be held accountable for this travesty.

Will the Prime Minister have the courage to sack the incompetent minister, or will the minister do us all a favour and resign already?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, the Conservative partisan interest in disliking the minister has been well-established, and they continue to repeat that.

That is a separate conversation from the conversation we need to have about this situation, which is greatly upsetting to everyone. A decision was made, independent of government, by Correctional Service Canada to make a transfer effective, and that is something that we are deeply concerned about. That is why there is a review. In two weeks' time, Correctional Service Canada could come back with its decision. I fundamentally reject the premise that the approach the member is talking about would work. It has failed everywhere in the world.

[Dane Lloyd, Conservative, Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB]

Madam Speaker, the offices of the Prime Minister and of the Minister of Public Safety knew about this transfer for three months. This was no mistake. This was a result of the Liberal government's agenda.

This did not have to happen. Yesterday, Liberals had a chance to right this wrong, but instead they chose to double down on their failure. For the Liberals to claim otherwise is misinformation. When will the minister formally change his title from Minister of Public Safety to minister of misinformation?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, there is a peppering of partisan comments here. I would just say that this is a deeply serious issue about crimes that every single one of us were impacted by.

As I said earlier, this is a decision that was made by Correctional Service Canada and we have long made sure throughout the history of our country, that it operates independently of the actions of politics. We have been very careful to ensure that politics is not inserted in that process.

If we want to have a conversation about the outrage we feel about this crime—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

The hon. member for Edmonton Manning.

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Madam Speaker, the Liberal bill, Bill C-83, allowed rapist and killer Paul Bernardo to be moved from a maximum-security to a medium-security prison.

Under the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, the Minister of Public Safety has the power to send him back to where he belongs, but he refuses to do so. His office knew about the transfer for months, but the minister chose to remain blissfully ignorant.

Why will he not take responsibility and resign?

[David Lametti, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Madam Speaker, it is categorically false to say that. Bill C-83, which was aimed at ending solitary confinement, a practice that had been condemned by human rights groups and was found to be against our charter, was replaced by something called structured intervention units to allow for a more direct and equitable form of intervention in those cases.

The link between Bill C-83 and the decision made by Correctional Service Canada to transfer this known killer is misinformation.

[Brad Redekopp, Conservative, Saskatoon West, SK]

Madam Speaker, Paul Bernardo is the worst type of human being who can exist, yet over and over again, Liberal ministers stand on their feet to defend his right to the comforts of medium-security prisons.

The minister may not understand, but it is the Liberals' very own Bill C-83 and its change to section 28 of the act that allowed this serial rapist and murderer to be transferred to easy street. This is not something that just happened. The Liberals made it happen. Yesterday, the government would not support a Conservative bill that would fix this by requiring serial killers to stay in maximum-security prisons.

When will the government take public safety seriously, reverse these ridiculous changes and keep notorious—