Debates of Sept. 26th, 2023

Affordable Housing and Groceries Act

[The Acting Speaker, Green, Mike Morrice]

The hon. member for St. Catharines.

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Housing]

Mr. Speaker, it is clear that there are so many in the House who are passionate about building housing. I was concerned that he was downplaying the impact of the GST credit. It is not a magic bullet that will solve anything, but it will be significant. It will produce hundreds of thousands of units of housing.

Just today we have seen, in Toronto, 5,000 units of housing that are going to be built because of this tax credit. That is one announcement, in one city, in one moment.

Why is he downplaying this when it is already having an impact?

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to know why Bill C-56 does not include an affordability criterion as part of the eligibility for the GST credit. Including it would have made things simple. The government could force private builders to make housing truly affordable. However, it was not included.

Perhaps my colleague from Joliette will manage to get this added at committee, but I do not understand why the government did not include it. With this GST credit, all the government is going to do is hand out more money. The main problem with the major national housing strategy that was launched is that it is giving a lot of the money to private developers. The private sector wants to line its pockets. That is how capitalism works.

It is absolutely essential that the government invest in building real social housing.

[Warren Steinley, Conservative, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to join in the debate today. I have heard, often, my Bloc colleagues talk about there being no carbon tax effects in Quebec. I am sure all of the food that is consumed in Quebec is not produced in Quebec.

There is a carbon tax on the farmers that produce the food. There is a carbon tax on the truckers that truck the food, so why would he not think that the carbon tax would affect the consumers in Quebec?

It gets produced in other parts of the country and trucked from all across the country, so that food is more expensive in Quebec because of the carbon tax.

Would he not agree with that?

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, what is most expensive in Quebec right now is housing and rent. That is what is needed right now. I listen to the Conservatives here in the House and I try to find solutions. I listen to what they are proposing. All they want is to punish cities. They say that cities cannot get it right, that they will get in there to clean up the mess and make sure that cities build housing.

Come on. That has never worked. If it worked, we would know it. Punishing cities is not the way to go. What we need is for the federal government to really step up, because it has taxation power.

According to the IMF, we gave the oil industry $50 billion in 2022. Meanwhile, people in Quebec have to sleep outdoors. How is that acceptable?

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Longueuil—Saint-Hubert came to see us in Shefford. The problem is very serious in Granby. The member toured Quebec, and what the organizations in Quebec are asking for is assistance for community groups.

Community groups in Quebec are not talking to us about taxes. The idea of investing more money, for example 1% of the GDP, speaks to community groups, those that work every day with people in social housing and the homeless. There are also the acquisition funds. People tell me about ideas like giving more clout to other types of projects and taking this file out of the private market.

My colleague addressed the issue of victims of domestic violence and that is why I wanted to take the floor. He talked about the $900 million that is being held in Ottawa right now. In the middle of the pandemic, while women were stuck 24 hours a day with their abuser, Ottawa was withholding money for women's shelters. That was in the middle of the pandemic. It is unacceptable. The federal government was withholding the money because it was trying to impose conditions.

It is time to give the money to Quebec. These are matters that fall under Quebec's responsibility. The government needs to stop withholding the money. Women and children are at risk.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague is absolutely right; that is unacceptable.

The government seems totally clueless about this problem. As I have said, we need to build 1.1 million housing units in Quebec and 3.5 million in Canada. A GST break alone is not going to make a big difference.

We absolutely have to have a strategy. We need an industrial-strength strategy. When the pandemic hit, the government managed to organize everything, send cheques out to workers and businesses and roll out vaccination across the country. How did it do that? It all happened in record time.

Why can we not mobilize the entire Canadian government behind this issue? It seems to me that we should all be able to get on board with taking care of the least fortunate.

[Blake Desjarlais, NDP, Edmonton Griesbach, AB]

Mr. Speaker, my hon. colleague is quite adamant about waking us all up on important issues, which I appreciate. When it comes to the market, however, I think it is important to delineate two facts. One is that the housing market we are seeing in Canada is largely a privatized one. It has been the belief of both the Conservatives and the Liberals that the market is going to fix itself.

Does the member agree with the New Democratic Party that we need non-market solutions to what is, in fact, a crisis facing Canadians?

[The Acting Speaker, Green, Mike Morrice]

Sadly, we are out of time. We have to continue.

The member for Winnipeg South Centre.

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Kingston and the Islands.

On June 19, the people of Winnipeg South Centre put their trust in me to be their voice in this chamber. It is with the greatest sense of pride and humility that I rise today for my maiden speech as a member of Parliament.

The people of Winnipeg South Centre are as diverse as the country itself. It is a riding comprising individuals who have arrived in Canada recently and those, such as my ancestors, who escaped the pogroms of Europe, who came some time in the more distant past, as well as first nations and Red River Métis. We are blessed in Winnipeg South Centre to reflect the foundation of diversity upon which Canada is built.

What I appreciate most about the people of Winnipeg South Centre is their deep social conscience. They hold a collective belief in the responsibility that we all bear to look after one another. They care about those around them, never limiting the scope of their concerns to themselves only, but extending it broadly. It is an honour to be an extension of that here.

I saw these values reflected in the thousands of conversations I had with neighbours during the recent by-election campaign. Whether it be concerns related to climate change, reconciliation, mental health or education, my constituents are engaged, and they care.

I come to this role with a deep sense of gratitude and responsibility. As I took my seat last week and walked in this chamber past colleagues from all sides of the House and all parties, I was overcome by the magnitude of this place and reminded of how great a privilege it is to have the honour to serve one's community within these walls.

Today, I am thinking of those who have helped to shape me along the years: teachers, coaches, friends, family, neighbours and constituents. Whether it was Monsieurs Sokalski and Young at Kelvin High School, who fostered my love for civics and history; my coaches, Romu and Urbanovich, who taught me to always keep my head up and do my part as a member of a team; my dear friend who we lost earlier this year, Lydia Hedrich, who reminded me to always focus on my north star; or my mother and father, who instilled in me the foundational values of kindness, hard work and honesty that guide my actions today, I have been incredibly well served by those who collectively raised me. Of course, I am eternally grateful to my partner, Amy, for the positive influence she is on me every day.

I am a product of bilingualism in Canada. Like many Canadians across the country, I was in a French immersion program from kindergarten to grade 12. It was during a French speaking competition that I first announced, “One day, I will be an MP”.

The public service has guided a number of the decisions I have made throughout my lifetime. I will continue to improve my French as best I can here in the House.

With every job or duty that I have undertaken in my life, the underlying aim has been to contribute to the benefit of the community that helped raise me. Whether it was as a teacher, volunteer coach or school principal, I have tried to immerse myself in actions that give something back.

Of particular focus for me over the coming months will be to advocate for the advancement of our collective journey toward truth and reconciliation, and I am grateful for the opportunity to sit on the Standing Committee for Indigenous and Northern Affairs. I have had the privilege as a teacher and principal to work closely with indigenous students and their families. I feel that, despite the significant progress that has been made since 2015, there is still much more work to do at the federal level to ensure equity and opportunity for young people from our indigenous communities.

By fostering stronger bonds with these communities and working together with our provincial colleagues as well as post-secondary institutions across the country, we can achieve meaningful progress.

I come to my work as a parliamentarian with a view through many lenses. In addition to conveying the thoughts and aspirations relayed to me by the people of Winnipeg South Centre, I arrive here as a teacher, as a Jew, as a son and as a westerner.

My hometown of Winnipeg is a special place. As an emerging destination for newcomers and economic development in the 19th and 20th centuries, Winnipeg served, and continues to serve, as the gateway to the west. As I look to the future of this great country, I see no region playing a more critical role than western Canada.

As we tackle the climate crisis, the Prairies will be there to innovate. With technologies like carbon capture and green hydrogen, wind and solar power, vast networks of clean hydroelectric energy, and critical minerals, we will lead the way.

Although I have been assured that my maiden speech can be somewhat less relevant to the debate at hand, it is timely that we are discussing the issues of affordability as I give these remarks, for the future costs we will assume or avoid as a country are rooted in the issues I have just highlighted.

If we do not address climate change, we will bear significant costs, ranging from massive increases in insurance premiums to emergency preparedness, infrastructure and more. If we do not follow the facts and medical expertise on how to effectively address the drug and mental health crisis we face in this country, including the implementation at provincial levels of supervised safe consumption sites, our costs for health care and within the criminal justice system will never be resolved or recovered.

If we do not continue moving towards closing the gap with indigenous education, we will leave the nation's fastest-growing generation’s ideas and intellect behind and perpetuate the harms of the residential school era. In my home province of Manitoba, of the 11,000 children in the care of child and family services, 90% of them are indigenous.

In addition to the west, I am eager to contribute where possible to the growth and stability of our north. In my home province of Manitoba, the Port of Churchill will play a vital role in economic export activity, clean energy transmission and, of growing significance, Arctic sovereignty.

As we talk about affordability, it is a combination of these social and economic policies that will ensure that life is better for Canadians from all parts of the country. Along with the announcements the government has made in recent days pertaining to the GST on purpose-built homes, inclusive of the proposed changes to the Competition Act, are significant steps in our ongoing efforts to make life more affordable for Canadians, and to ease the financial burden being driven by myriad global factors.

As I conclude these maiden remarks, I want to turn my memory for a moment to my father. Less than a year ago, he stood courageously in this very chamber, just a few seats away from the one that I occupy today, and he used, literally, the last days of his life to continue fighting for the country and the region that he loved. The aspect of his work that I, as his son, was most proud of, across a long and diverse career of public contributions, was his unwavering commitment to building bridges and a conduct that evaded hyperpartisanship at every opportunity. Whenever the time may come that I look back at my own parliamentary career to judge its successes and shortcomings, I hope that I will be able to genuinely say that I have lived up to the standard that he set for us all.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my hon. colleague on his election and appointment to the agriculture committee which he did not mention in his speech, which I find completely shameful. That should have led off his entire presentation, but that is okay.

I know he did not talk a great deal about the bill that we are talking about here today. I certainly appreciate that when someone is giving their maiden speech, they want to thank those who worked hard to get them here and what it means for all of us. However, now that he is member of the agriculture committee, with one aim of this bill being to reduce the grocery prices of food that all Canadians are struggling with, I would ask my colleague this.

We know now from the Canada food index that an average 5,000-acre farm will pay $150,000 in carbon taxes. Farmers will be paying close to a billion dollars in carbon taxes between now and the year 2030. The Liberals are also going to be putting $2 billion in new costs on farmers, producers and processors on front-of-pack labelling. Could the Liberals not address the food crisis and the price crisis right now by eliminating the carbon tax and eliminating this regulatory red tape?

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I admit it was an egregious error not to begin my remarks by highlighting the fact that I have also been named, as he has, to the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. I look forward to working with the member; as I mentioned earlier, the west is going to be at the forefront of change in this country, and the agricultural industry is critical to that change. Whether it is advancement that we are going to see in transportation, in clean energy or in the social issues that I mentioned previously in my remarks, it will be western Canada at the forefront. We have the brains and the leadership in the Prairies to lead the way.

Specifically related to the price of food, I will note that, in preparation for my work on the agriculture committee, I read through the report that the committee produced just a few months ago related to the price of food. At no point since the pandemic had the cost of food in Canada surpassed that in the United States. The point here is that this is a global issue. We are taking concrete measures, and we will continue to do so through this legislation.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I too would like to welcome the member to the House of Commons. I would also like to say that I was here when his father gave his farewell speech in the House, and I was here when people paid tribute after his passing. The words of my colleague from Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia left not a single dry eye in the House. With utmost respect, I welcome him to his new role as a member of Parliament. I am sure he will fill those shoes with dignity and professionalism.

Since my colleague is a member of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, I would like to talk more about food prices and inflation, which is hitting Quebeckers and Canadians hard these days. I know that the government is trying, that it has summoned the heads of the major chains and major agri-food companies, but I think we need to consult farmers. They should be part of the solution and part of the conversation.

Should the burden on farmers not be eased because they are at the base of the chain?

Should the burden on farmers not be eased so as to reduce costs throughout the supply chain?

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague for his kind words. As I said earlier, these are global challenges that we are also facing in Canada. We have taken and will continue to take concrete action to ensure that grocery costs continue to drop.

I would once again like to thank my colleague for his words. I will have the opportunity to work with him on these issues in the weeks and months to come.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I welcome my hon. colleague to the House. I had the honour to sit beside his father. In the final weeks, I asked him every day, “Jim, how are you doing?” He said, “Every day is grace.”

I welcome my hon. colleague, and I thank him for his words on indigenous education and the climate crisis. We know there are many in this House who do not believe that our planet is on fire and would rather have it burn if it made a few extra bucks for big oil. We all need to work together, so I thank my colleague.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is an absolute honour to have been afforded the opportunity to share my time today with the member for Winnipeg South Centre, who has just delivered his maiden speech in this House. I want to echo others in saying that we deeply miss his father. He was such an incredible asset to our team and provided great insight. He was always an incredible individual to interact with, whether in the government lobby or wherever it was. Right up until his last day in this House, he had so much energy, and it was always a pleasure to deal with him.

I am equally delighted and excited to have our newest member, the member for Winnipeg South Centre, here as part of our team. I look forward to working with him in the future.

There are a few things I want to talk about in relation to Bill C-56. I want to echo some of the comments I heard my colleague from Winnipeg South Centre mention a few minutes ago in response to the first question with respect to affordability, more generally speaking, and how this is really a global issue and global problem that people are facing.

The member hit the nail right on the head when he made comments about agriculture and how food prices in the United States have always inflated a lot faster than they do here in Canada. I know that is small comfort to those who are really affected by it, in particular, some of the most vulnerable in our communities. However, it is important, in the context of our debates, to recognize that inflation is a global thing, something that has happened globally.

I will provide the latest statistics in terms of inflation. Canada ranks second lowest in the G7 in terms of inflation. We all know that it is 4% right now, but the only country lower would be Japan, at 3.3%. Indeed, the U.K. is at 6.7%, Germany is at 6.1%, Italy is at 5.4%, France is at 4.9% and the U.S. is at 3.7%. That would make two countries below Canada.

I realize that this is very insignificant and small comfort for those affected by it. However, it is important, when we are having these discussions, to talk about where we are in terms of our position within the G7 and our comparative countries, so that we can understand how to properly address the issue. If we are not recognizing where the issue comes from, it is going to be very difficult to address where to go and to create proper policies to help deal with it.

That is where this bill comes in. In particular, I want to talk about the competition improvements in this bill and what it seeks to do to further enhance competition in the marketplace. We know that when companies are competitive and there is robust competition in our economy, consumers end up with the best deal. That is the way it is supposed to work, but sometimes, of course, that does not happen, because different businesses get together and carry out particular practices that end in not having that robust competition.

Specifically, I am sure everyone can tell that I am speaking about when businesses get together and collude on price-fixing. That does not help anybody. It certainly does not help the consumer. In terms of efficiency, it does not help the economy; does not help the businesses in the long run either when they become used to the ability to fix prices in that way. That is why I bring to the attention of the House that, back in 2022, we introduced legislation to improve competitiveness in the marketplace. Unfortunately, Conservatives voted against it.

What did we see as a result of that? As a direct result of that legislation that was introduced in 2022, we saw Canada Bread sentenced to pay a $50-million fine after pleading guilty to fixing wholesale bread prices. Therefore, we know that this type of legislation is working. We know that it was able to contribute to rooting out a price-fixing practice, properly fining those responsible and, ultimately, setting them on the right course to prevent this type of activity from happening into the future.

In that case, which was just resolved in June, the Canada Bread Company, Limited was fined $50 million by the Ontario Superior Court after pleading guilty for its role in a criminal price-fixing arrangement that raised the wholesale price of fresh commercial bread. This is the highest price-fixing fine imposed by a Canadian court to date, or at least that was the case when this happened.

We know that the legislation we introduced back in 2022, which Conservatives unfortunately chose not to support and voted against, had a direct result in terms of the ability of the government and agencies that are tasked by the government to ensure that they can continue to maintain competitiveness. This is very important, especially when we are talking about bread or groceries. We know the price is increasing.

I will just give a quick stat. In the United States, Walmart has the largest share of grocery sales; I believe it is right around 20%. It might be just under 20%. In Canada, it is Loblaws, which has around 43%. Our largest share, as a percentage of grocery sales in Canada, has more than double the shares that Walmart has in the United States.

Loblaws merged with Shoppers Drug Mart under Stephen Harper's watch, and that has continued to build. We brought in legislation in 2022 to try to help deal with this; Conservatives voted against it.

Now we have more legislation, and I really hope Conservatives will vote in favour of this, that specifically goes to improving once again on the competitiveness in the industry. This bill would give the Competition Bureau the power to stop big business mergers with anti-competitive effects. It would also enable the Competition Bureau to conduct precise market studies and get the data and information from companies it is examining. Moreover, it would stop the anti-competitive collaborations that stifle small businesses, especially small grocers.

I know the default reaction to this from Conservatives was that they brought forward a private member's bill and the government stole their idea. One of the concerns of the Conservatives seems to be that this was their idea, through a private member's bill of one of their members, and now it is suddenly in this bill. This seems to be what they are upset about. I did not think policy was created to satisfy one individual's ego. I thought it was for the betterment of Canadians.

Here we are with Conservatives complaining about the fact that this was their idea and we stole it. Should they not be flattered? My mother used to always say that imitation is the best form of flattery. I know this better than probably most members in this House, because back in 2016, I introduced a bill that had EI reform in it, which the government totally voted against but the Conservatives all voted in favour of. Once it passed, the government took my idea and put it in the budget, and I was thrilled by it. At the end of the day, I knew that what I was doing, my idea and what I put forward, whether it had my name on it or not, was something Canadians would benefit from.

I hope Conservatives take pride in the fact they had a great idea. Whether the government had the same idea or saw their idea and took it is completely irrelevant. What is important is that, at the end of the day, we have policies in place that are for the betterment of all Canadians. That is our job here, and I am proud to sit across the aisle from individuals who have come up with similar ideas and have a similar approach to it.

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I find it interesting that my colleague is talking about the price of food increasing but does not do the simple, basic math. When one taxes a farmer and puts a tax on fuel for farmers to take the food from the field to the farm, and when one taxes truckers to ship it to the grocery stores and then puts the carbon tax on the fuel for the families to go to the grocery stores to buy their food, it is no wonder food is expensive. It is the policies of the government that are outright making food more expensive.

To my hon. colleague, maybe if you took away the carbon tax, and it was a more competitive environment for our farmers to grow in, instead of competing with other countries around the world that do not pay this carbon tax on the things they grow, we would see the price of groceries decline in this country. Would you comment on why you are making it so hard for farmers to grow food to feed families in Canada?

[The Acting Speaker, Green, Mike Morrice]

I will just pause to encourage members to direct questions through the Speaker.

We have a point of order from the member for Timmins—James Bay.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I know the member who represents the Green Party does support making polluters pay; the Conservatives do not. I think it is unfair that she is singling you out when it is really the member for Kingston and the Islands.

[The Acting Speaker, Green, Mike Morrice]

That is obviously not a point of order.

The hon. deputy House leader.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, of course that is the narrative the Conservatives are playing all the time and they want everyone to believe it.

How about this one? Ukraine was growing 15% of the world's grain. What happens when that stops all of a sudden? Do members think the price of grain is going to increase by 15%? If someone has even the most rudimentary understanding of free trade and the global economy, they will realize very quickly the price is going to shoot up.

Conservatives come into the House day after day and try to paint the picture as though this is strictly a problem that exists within Canada, but that is just not true. I started my speech by giving the statistics on that and letting the House know exactly where we stood in the world. This is a global problem. If we are just going to look day in, day out at how this is a problem and if we are just going to look within Canada and not look at it globally, we are never going to come up with a proper solution because we are not recognizing the real problem.

[Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay, Bloc, Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, QC]

Mr. Speaker, with this bill, which is a mini-reform and contains a few small measures, is the government admitting that the Canadian housing strategy is a failure? Objectively, it has been a failure.

Is that what the government is admitting?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I focused my remarks today on the Competition Act amendments part of this, and to suggest that it is minor is an incredible disservice. I already told members about how, in 2022, we brought along provisions that led to a $50-million fine for Canada Bread Company earlier this year.

What we have already done in terms of anti-competition, which the Conservatives voted against, has resulted in significant fines and significant abilities to do something about the competition and anti-competition practices in this country.

[Bonita Zarrillo, NDP, Port Moody—Coquitlam, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for bringing up the merger between Loblaw and Shoppers Drug Mart. I am sure the member knows now that bread is also for sale at Shoppers Drug Mart.

If the member knows that Loblaw has 40% of the market share on bread, why have the Liberals not tried to break up these monopolies?

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Mr. Speaker, this bill is at the stage where it is going to go to committee. The member will have the opportunity, at that time, to raise these very important questions and then decide what the recommendations out of committee will be.

My point in my observation earlier was to show how anti-competitive things are in Canada right now, especially as compared to the United States, as I did in my speech.