House of Commons Hansard #224 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was housing.

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Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

moved that the 11th report of the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development presented on Friday, February 17, be concurred in.

Mr. Speaker, I am grateful for this opportunity to address the House today on an urgent question of foreign policy.

After people have enjoyed more than three decades of political independence with their own self-governing democratic institutions, another power has just invaded their territory. It has the clearly stated intention of ending self-government for these people and incorporating the territory in question by force.

The aggressor has framed this attack as being a military operation instead of an invasion and has described the independently constituted defence forces of this area as being a terrorist entity. This doublespeak barely covers the naked desire of this invading force to reassert 19th-century norms of aggression and to replace diplomacy and the international rule of law with violence and the rule of power.

I could be, but in this case I am not, describing the Putin regime's illegal invasion of Ukraine. At least in the case of Ukraine, the fundamental right to self-determination of peoples and the essential illegitimacy of efforts to change the status quo by force were widely accepted. Russia's brutal invasion rightly provoked a significant international response, and the invasion was widely understood as a fundamental attack on freedom, democracy, human rights and the rule of law.

However, today I am not speaking about Ukraine. Rather, I am speaking about the brutal assault of Azerbaijan's forces on the self-governing territory of Artsakh, also known as Nagorno-Karabakh. The sad reality is that, while the aggression of the Azerbaijani state bears many features in common with Russian aggression, many Canadians are probably completely unaware of this conflict. This needs to change.

While Neville Chamberlain could refer to the question of Czechoslovakia as “A quarrel in a faraway country, between people of whom we know nothing”, his ignorance did not make Czechoslovakia any less important.

There are differences between Azerbaijani aggression and Russian aggression; however, there are also similarities. My hope in moving this concurrence motion today is that our discussion will confront the relative lack of consideration of this important issue. I raise the issue most from concern for the people directly affected. I also raise it because the principle of peaceful resolution of conflict and respect for fundamental human rights needs to be established in every case, not just in cases that happen to be the most high-profile. After members have heard this story of these 120,000 people, I hope they will be able to consider more action in response as well.

As such, here is the background: Following the breakup of the Soviet Union, Armenia and Azerbaijan went to war over a disputed area. It had previously, according to Soviet-era internal borders, been within Azerbaijan, but its population was nonetheless overwhelmingly ethnically Armenian and Christian and enjoyed official autonomy during the Soviet period. Following the first Nagorno-Karabakh war, this territory became de facto independent and set up its own institutions. However, it maintained close relations with Armenia, it was still claimed by Azerbaijan and it was still seen by much of the international community as technically constituting Azeri territory.

In effect, the Armenian side won that war. In addition to establishing de facto independence for Artsakh, it established a buffer zone that provided secure linkage between Artsakh and Armenian territory. This buffer zone prevented the possibility of Artsakh being blockaded; it also led to many ethnic Azeris becoming victims of displacement, a situation that required resolution.

It is important to note the large amount of displacement on both sides during the first Nagorno-Karabakh war, which was much larger on the Azeri side. In addition, there were various atrocities committed, for which there can be no excuse.

The conflict over Artsakh, or Nagorno-Karabakh, was the subject of sporadic conflict and much debate and negotiation between the end of the first Nagorno-Karabakh war in 1994 and the start of the second in 2020. The dispute over the core territory of Nagorno-Karabakh hinges on a certain tension between two established principles of international law: territorial integrity and the right of self determination.

Territorial integrity, the principle asserted by the Azerbaijani side, is the idea that a state's existing territory should not be interfered with and that states have a right to defend their existing territory. This principle is important for preventing conflict, because it establishes that a state cannot militarily intervene in the territory of another state outside of very narrow and specific circumstances. This principle is recognized in the UN charter.

Of course, an extreme interpretation of the principle of territorial integrity, read in isolation from other principles of international law, could say that borders should never change and that historical borders established with no regard for the preferences of the people within them should nonetheless be maintained, regardless of anything else. Such an extreme application of this principle would, in effect, justify the continuation of all forms of colonialism and domination that had managed to survive until the point at which that principle was promulgated.

Fortunately, in real-world international law, we do not apply this one principle of territorial integrity in isolation from other important concepts, such as the genocide convention, which establishes a responsibility to act and protect people at risk of genocide, and the principle of the right of self-determination of peoples in general. I will come back to the issue of genocide, but I want to speak first on this issue of the right of self-determination.

Self-determination is the fundamental idea that all human beings, bearers of inherent and immutable human dignity, have a right to play a role in directing the political community that they are a part of. A people should not be compelled against their will to be part of a political community; rather, their membership in a political community should be the result of collective choice. In this particular instance, those who defend Artzakh assert the simple idea that this area's population should be able to collectively determine their own future and decide on whether they wish to be part of Azerbaijan. They should be able to make that decision through their elected representatives, free from violence, intimidation or coercion.

The notion of a right to self-determination does not entail the presumption that a particular community would or should pursue independence or association with another state purely on the basis of ethnic or religious commonality. It is quite reasonable that a people might choose to be part of a multi-ethnic, multilingual state or, on the other hand, choose to pursue independence from another state with whom they nonetheless share the same language, religion or ethnic characteristics. The point of self-determination is not that people should draw state boundaries in a certain way or on the basis of certain factors. It is simply that the people affected should be the ones making choices about their own future. In the case of Artsakh, this means that this region's future should be decided by the people who live there and not by the leaders of Azerbaijan or Russia, or even by the leaders of Armenia or those elsewhere.

Over the last three decades, the ethnically Armenian people of Artsakh, or Nagorno-Karabakh, have asserted their right to self-determination against Azerbaijan's claim that Artsakh ought to be incorporated into Azerbaijan on the basis of the territorial integrity of these Soviet-era borders. This basic tension between territorial integrity and self-determination underlies the overall question, although the question is complicated in a few other ways that reinforce the need for negotiation and dialogue.

Undoubtedly, Azerbaijanis who were displaced during the first Nagorno-Karabakh war have a right to self-determination as well, although this issue is now somewhat moot, given how borders have changed since 2020. In addition, Artzakh has had self-governing independent institutions operating for three decades, so a legitimate question is this: At what point can an unrecognized territory start making an argument for territorial integrity in its own right?

Artzakh has been a self-governing entity for about as long as many states in eastern Europe have. However, moving forward, 2020 brought the second Nagorno-Karabakh war; this time, the war was won decisively by Azerbaijan. In a ceasefire agreement that ended the war, the buffer territory taken in the first Nagorno-Karabakh was ceded back to Azerbaijan, leaving Artsakh more isolated and strategically vulnerable, but still standing.

As I think my description illustrates, there are many aspects of this conflict that are legitimately complicated; however, there are also aspects of it that are not. Azerbaijan was rightly criticized for starting the second Nagorno-Karabakh war. Although the conflict was an ongoing irritant, there was a legitimate hope that a negotiated settlement would lead to an agreement securing the position of all affected peoples. Instead of pursuing that path, Azerbaijan has launched wars of choice. From at least 2020 onward, it has been clear that Azerbaijan's authorities are willing to use violence to upend the status quo and pursue their own objectives.

At this point, the question is no longer primarily one of self-determination versus territorial integrity; rather, it is about whether violence should be the means for settling disputes in interstate relations. I think we should all clearly say “no” to that. We should assert that, regardless of the legitimate complexity here, violence should not be the path pursued or the means of seeking resolution.

Because of a decision that the Liberal government made to resume arms exports to Turkey, Canadian-made weapons played a significant role in Azerbaijan's victory in the second Nagorno-Karabakh war and potentially played a role in its calculation to use force in the first place. It should grieve Canadians deeply that the government's decision to sell arms to Turkey played a negative role in international peace and security, and I will return to that point later if time allows.

The territorial settlement that ended the second Nagorno-Karabakh war left only one narrow road, the Lachin corridor, linking Artzakh to Armenia. Russian peacekeepers were supposed to guarantee peace on it sand the access of essential goods to Artzakh via this road.

Notwithstanding the circumstances that led to the second Nagorno-Karabakh war, there should have been the basis at this point for efforts to pursue a long-term settlement that allowed the return of Azeris to their recently transferred territory and that recognized the right of self-determination of the people of Nagorno-Karabakh in their remaining territory. However, the advances made during the second Nagorno-Karabakh war were sadly not good enough for the Azerbaijani government, which has continued to insist on its right to incorporate by force any people, no matter how unwilling, who fall within the parameters required to make an argument based on territorial integrity.

Further to this point, I think a good way to understand the initial question of self-determination versus territorial integrity is by analogy to the relationship of a married couple. Generally speaking, in most cases, we might hope to see the preservation of the integrity of an existing marriage. It is nice when a couple can stay together. Different individuals would likely identify different thresholds at which they believe other factors might outweigh the importance of marital integrity, but all other things being equal, it is nice to keep the family together. On the other hand, a general belief in the general desirability of couples staying together is not the same as a belief that people should be forced to stay together even if they are victims of violence and abuse. The fact that two people have a lot of history together clearly does not mean that one partner should be able to force the other to remain against their will.

In geopolitics, when I hear arguments that assert the right of one region or people to dominate another, purely on the basis of historical borders or relationships, this rings to me like the ravings of an abuser demanding continuing access to their victims. Centuries of Russian domination of Ukraine do no create some right for Russia to continue to dominate Ukraine in the present. Ukraine may choose her own path. The same principle ought to apply to Artsakh. Past domination does not justify future domination when the relationship is clearly not voluntary or consensual. When it comes to prospective independence or separatist movements, while, generally speaking, breaking up existing states is not a desirable thing, states should preserve themselves and their integrity through persuasion and through the consensual building of common endeavour, not through violence directed at those who prefer and argue for a different path.

Following the second Nagorno-Karabakh war, rather than accept the ceasefire agreement, the regime in Baku engineered a blockade of the Lachin corridor, which disrupted the flow of essential goods into Artsakh and caused great hardship for people living there. The objectives of this blockade have since become very clear. Following the start of this blockade last December, the Canadian foreign affairs committee chose to hold emergency hearings on the situation. Here at length is what we heard from Robert Avetisyan, Artsakh's representative in Washington. He said:

On December 12 of last year, a group of Azerbaijanis blocked the only road connecting Artsakh with Armenia and the world....the lives of an estimated 120,000 people have been severely worsening. Children and adult medical patients remain in critical condition and are suffering in hospitals from a lack of supplies and treatment outside the republic. People have died as a result.

Grocery shops and markets are almost empty. The Red Cross and the peacekeepers supply a fraction of the required products and medicines. A shortage of food has led to the closure of schools and other educational institutions across the area. To elevate the suffering, the Aliyev regime has cut the supply of natural gas and sabotaged and blocked the repair of high-voltage power lines, which provide much of our electricity.

This is a humanitarian crisis caused not by an economic downturn, a global pandemic or a natural disaster. This is, rather, a political disaster. Aliyev wants to decide who can live and who must have death. It is a political disaster if, in the 21st century, we witness medieval cruelty by a repressive regime toward people whose only crime is the desire to live in freedom, democracy and dignity.

We heard other harrowing testimony, way back in January, that nonetheless did not impel stronger action by the international community, or even by the Canadian government. However, in response to this testimony, the committee did agree unanimously to adopt the following motion:

That the committee report to the House that it calls on the Azerbaijani authorities, in accordance with its obligations as a party to the trilateral declaration of November 9, 2020, and following the appeal made by the Government of Canada on December 14, 2022, to reopen the Lachin Corridor and guarantee freedom of movement in order to avoid any deterioration in the humanitarian situation.

The committee adopted this motion because we understood that what was happening was a grave and unjustified violation of the fundamental human rights of the people of the Nagorno-Karabakh region and of the agreement that Azerbaijan had itself signed. Regardless of the conclusions that one comes to about any of the history of the conflict, this blockade was a clear violation of international law and of the ceasefire agreement. Azeri authorities showed no interest in taking their commitments seriously, and Russia showed either an unwillingness or an inability to fulfill its peacekeeping obligations under the agreement.

Again, regardless of one's views on the nature and exercise of self-determination, the blockade was a clear violation of fundamental human rights. In terms of how we classify that violation, it is important review the genocide convention to which Canada is a party. The convention underlines the responsibility of state parties to act to prevent and punish genocide. The convention defines “genocide” as “any of the following acts committed with the intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group”, and of the possible acts, the convention includes “deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part”.

The blockade of the Lachin corridor created conditions which made the continuation of normal life impossible in Artsakh, bringing about an increasing exodus from the area. The fact that this relates strongly to the genocide convention criteria explains why various experts have raised the flag about genocide in this context. States, regardless of their claims, never have a right to use genocide as a tool to advance their objectives, and other states have a moral and legal responsibility to respond when they do. The House should know that Armenians have been victims of genocide before, a genocide that, to this day, continues to be denied by the Turkish government. The world's relative ignorance was, in fact, used by Hitler to justify his own preparations for the Holocaust.

By launching this blockade, Azerbaijani authorities sought to and did squeeze the people of Artsakh, with their plans culminating in a full-scale invasion of Nagorno-Karabakh last week, about nine months after the blockade began. Last week, Azerbaijan declared that it would no longer tolerate the existence of Artsakh's independent institutions on its territory and launched coordinated attacks on security and civilian installations. Essentially, this was to be the final invasion. Without any international support, Artsakh was quickly forced to surrender and begin the process of negotiating its so-called reintegration into Azerbaijan.

It looks as if now it is all over for Artsakh, and now the ethnic Armenians who have long inhabited this territory will no longer be able to choose their own leaders. They will be at the mercy of their invaders unless the international community finally steps up. Meanwhile, we continue to hear reports of grievous human rights violations that will likely spawn the further exodus of these Armenians from their homeland.

Where has the international community been in response to these events? Where has it been in response to this assault on the idea that people ought to be able to choose how they are governed, that political conflict should be solved peacefully and that starvation and ethnic cleansing are never acceptable tools for forcing a civilian population into submission? Where has the Liberal government been? It initially condemned the blockade but has been largely absent since, and its statement last week on the invasion was certainly substantially weaker than those of our allies. This invasion took place during the operation of the UN General Assembly. Where was the world?

While keeping the focus on human rights, it is important to underline also the strategic implications of what has happened. Armenia has historically been an ally and partner of Russia, reflecting the fundamental reality of how challenging Armenia's neighbourhood is, landlocked and surrounded by, among others, Turkey, Azerbaijan and Iran. However, Armenia has recently been making a series of welcome moves to align instead with the global community of free nations. This is natural, from a values perspective. Unlike its neighbours, Armenia is a free democracy. Armenia has given humanitarian aid to Ukraine. The first lady of Armenia has recently visited Ukraine, and Armenia made the point that it is not Russia's ally in the war with Ukraine. Ominously, Russia said it took note of Armenia's stand in this regard. Just before the final invasion of Artsakh, the U.S. and Armenia held joint military exercises.

What is happening here? Armenia appears to be moving more into the western camp of nations. In response, Russia appears to have greenlit or allowed Azerbaijan's aggressive action against Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh. However, in spite of the fact that this invasion may have been impacted by Armenia's outreach to the western camp, we in the west have entirely failed to show ourselves to be a good reciprocal partner, and this sends a terrible message to any would-be allies: that even if they would like to execute a strategic pivot away from the Russian sphere of influence to the community of free nations, we may not have their backs. This is the wrong message and a dangerous message.

Adopting this concurrence motion at this time is, in certain respects, late to the game because the motion, of course, does focus on the blockade. The invasion has now overtaken these issues, but it is critical for the House to speak to this. So much hangs in the balance: the fundamental rights of the people of this area, the importance of preventing another Armenian genocide and the need to show all nations that we will do what we can to support free people seeking to exercise self-determination and disentangle themselves from Russian influence.

I hope this motion will have the support of the House and then that we will do more to stand for freedom and justice against violence and aggression, and for a peaceful international rules-based order.

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:20 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, talk about being completely out of touch with what is happening in Canada today. The Conservatives have now moved a motion on a one-paragraph report from February, while Canadians today are enduring all sorts of hardship. They are dealing with issues such as inflation, housing-related issues, so many other economic issues and the issue of health care, and the Conservatives want to regurgitate a one-paragraph report. The member made reference to Russia and Ukraine, trying to draw a comparison to what is happening in the environment locally. Does he really believe that the Conservative Party today is in touch with what Canadians are concerned about?

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, I would be happy to, and we regularly do, address the affordability issues, the crisis in Canada that has been created by the policies of the Liberal government. However, I do think there is a place for the people's House to address critical foreign policy crises, including issues of peace, security and aggression around the world. It is disappointing to hear the member dismiss those important questions, recognizing that the vast majority of time we spend in the House is dealing with domestic issues, affordability issues and economic issues. To completely dismiss the lives and security of the people in the Nagorno-Karabakh region in the casual way the member did is deeply disturbing, and frankly, I suspect he will hear from folks who also find it disturbing.

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:20 a.m.

Bloc

Yves Perron Bloc Berthier—Maskinongé, QC

Madam Speaker, before asking my question, I would like to make a comment. It is strange to see the Conservatives putting off debates about the cost of living that are on the agenda. That does not mean the issue they are raising is not important; we will deal with it appropriately. However, I think my comment is still relevant.

My colleague talked a lot about the conflict and the blockade of the Lachin corridor. As I understand it, Canadian arms sales to Turkey have changed the course of the conflict. I am hoping he can elaborate on that. Were any figures provided during the committee study, and did the committee examine any tangible evidence of this? How could this be prevented from happening again?

Also, my colleague called for stronger action by the Canadian government in the face of the humanitarian crisis unfolding there because of the blockade. People have no access to food or medicine. When my colleague talks about stronger action, what does he suggest?

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, the Standing Committee on Foreign Affairs and International Development, in the last Parliament, at the time following the first Nagorno-Karabakh war, studied the issue of arms exports, because in a very curious fashion, the Liberal government lifted the prohibition on arms exports to Turkey. There were the exports of some critical technology that was used as part of drones that many people saw as being decisive in the outcome of the first Nagorno-Karabakh war.

These drones and technology that came from Canada, these sensors, were a very important part of the outcome of that war, and they were supplied to Azerbaijan via Turkey during the curious window in which these arms exports were allowed. I think it still remains largely unexplained why the government created that window and what it was trying to achieve. I know there was a meeting in that process where, in the talking points of the minister, there was some appreciation shown that maybe Turkey was going to support Bill Morneau's candidacy for some international position.

Frankly, there is still a lot unexplained about why the government allowed those exports. One of the ministers at the time dismissed it as, “We're just talking about some cameras here.” Actually, we are talking about weapons technology that played a decisive role in the outcome. There is a lot more that could be said about this, and more questions need to be answered by the government on this.

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

September 26th, 2023 / 10:25 a.m.

NDP

Niki Ashton NDP Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB

Madam Speaker, I do not think anybody would deny that top of mind here in Canada is the issue of cost of living, but I find it pretty rich to hear the Liberals' comments that issues of foreign affairs are not important when we are on day five of being plunged into the international media because the Speaker, a Liberal member, recognized an SS Nazi in the House. I think it is important to talk about what is happening around the world, including, and perhaps especially right now, the mass evacuations from the Artsakh region.

I am wondering if the member could speak a bit more to the ban on drone technology that Canada is considering lifting, a ban that is fully supported, of course, by the Armenian community and by many others, including members of the Greek community.

I am wondering if he could let us know if he believes that Canada should not lift the ban on this drone technology, which has been used in the drones that were used against the Armenian people in the conflict waged by Azerbaijan.

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:25 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, going back to the last Parliament, we had very effective co-operation on the foreign affairs committee among Conservatives, the Bloc and New Democrats in trying to get to the bottom of why there was the export of this technology to Turkey that ended up going to Azerbaijan. That transfer could likely have been predicted.

The effect of this was that this technology was used and deployed in a really devastating way as part of that war, a war of choice and a war launched as a result of a decision by Azerbaijan to take this aggressive action, which is similar to the latest round. That opening up of arms exports was never fully explained by the government, and these outstanding questions remain.

I would underline that the idea that the government might consider opening up arms exports again, specifically in the context wherein two countries have been involved in this kind of aggression, is very concerning.

What the government should be doing is supporting the principle of self-determination, clearly condemning acts of aggression, and at a minimum, not being complicit in it. Canada, by allowing the export of that technology, was actually complicit in the last round of aggression. That is a really shameful thing.

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:25 a.m.

Green

Elizabeth May Green Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC

Madam Speaker, I am grateful that my hon. friend from Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan has raised this. There has been an increase in conflicts in a region of the world where we have seen ethnic cleansing or, at least, accusations of ethnic cleansing from the Armenian population. We have deep concerns for the fate of Nagorno-Karabakh.

We always find it unfortunate in opposition benches, and I suppose also in government benches, when suddenly our day has been moved from an intended agenda by a concurrence motion, but in this case, I want to thank the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan because he is right. Do we only respond to egregious violations of the international order when they make headlines somewhere else? That is a poor standard.

My understanding is that the Armenian and Azerbaijani leaders will be meeting in Spain on October 5. The leaders of France, Germany and the European Council will be there. What role does he think Canada could play?

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, I think members who follow this know that there is a lot of debate within Armenia about the approach that the Armenian government has taken. We hope for peace. We hope for negotiation. We hope for understanding, but that discussion needs to also include the people in the Nagorno-Karabakh region, and it needs to include a human rights lens.

Regardless of the political discussions that take place, are the fundamental human rights of the people in Artsakh or Nagorno-Karabakh being protected or not? That is the fundamental question we need to be asking now.

I think, realistically, it is not difficult to predict the direction in which a final political settlement will go, but the international community needs to be clear in saying that acts of aggression will not be ignored, there will be consequences for acts of aggression and we will do everything we can to ensure the protection of the fundamental human rights of the people affected.

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:30 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, usually I would indicate that it is a pleasure to be able to rise to address a particular issue in the chamber. I would like to break my speech into a couple of parts related to the issue at hand.

First, I would like to provide a bit of background as to why we are debating this issue before us. Suffice it to say that all issues are ultimately important, particularly in the minds of many different people. When we have a finite amount of time to debate issues on the floor of the House of Commons, we have to try to place them, whether they are opposition agenda items or government agenda items, in some sense of an order of priority. War and things taking place internationally have always played an important role in debates of the chamber.

Members will recall last Monday, for example, we had the very serious issue of foreign interference being debated. I would have thought it to be universally accepted by most members of this chamber, but it was not by the Conservatives because I believe they had one person come in to speak once and that was it. Then they were absolutely quite. They did not get engaged, yet that was on the issue of foreign interference.

I can assure members across the way that the level of interest on that issue is actually quite high, yet the Conservative Party, with the exception of its very first speaker, was absolutely silent. I suspect it was because its members wanted to have their fingers in the air to figure out what they could or should be saying. That was an important international issue.

When we think of foreign affairs, we often have take-note debates and emergency debates. These are opportunities not only for opposition members but also for government members to stand and express concerns by reflecting on what their constituents are saying about that particular issue, and they can raise it in great detail. That is one of the advantages of the rules we have to accommodate issues of this nature.

I think people need to be aware of the background of these reports. For example, the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, who did not participate in the international interference debate last Monday, and who often likes to talk about his concerns about what is happening around the world, has brought forward a concurrence motion. I want us to put this into the proper perspective of when the report was actually tabled, which was back on February 17 of this year. Allow me to read the entire report. I can assure members it will not take long, but so I do not misquote, I will put on my glasses.

The report, which was tabled on February 17, states:

That the committee report to the House that it calls on the Azerbaijani authorities, in accordance with its obligations as a party to the trilateral declaration of November 9, 2020, and following the appeal made by the Government of Canada on December 14, 2022, to reopen the Lachin Corridor and guarantee freedom of movement in order to avoid any deterioration in the humanitarian situation, and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the Government table a comprehensive response to the report.

It is one paragraph that was brought into the chamber on February 17. Do members know there was actually a response to that report? An official response was given. Did the member refer to, cite or quote the response? I am not convinced the member is aware that there was a response given to the report on June 14 of this year. If so, he could have read first-hand how the government responded to that report.

Did the standing committee meet to discuss the response to the report and give an indication as to whether it wanted to have further debate on the issue? I do not know. I am not on the foreign affairs committee, nor have I asked any of its members. However, if I were to speculate, given the track record of the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, I would suggest that it likely did not.

Why do we have it today? I was supposed to be the first one to speak today. Do members know what the topic was? It was to be on Bill C-56, which is a wake-up call for the Conservative Party of Canada. People are hurting. Interest rates, inflation, what the grocery store giants are doing, and housing are the important issues that Canadians are facing today. This is not to take away from the importance of the issue described in that one-paragraph report from the standing committee months ago. After all, the government gave a formal response to it.

All issues are important. The reason for this motion is not to say we want to have a debate on this issue here on the floor of the House of Commons, but that this is being used as a tool to prevent the debate the was supposed to be taking place to deal with the Canadian economy and how Canadians are hurting. The members of the Conservative Party want to play games and filibuster. Shame on them for that sort of behaviour as an official opposition.

There are mechanisms from which the Conservatives can choose, such as opposition days, where they have a number of days every year to choose to debate important issues. For instance, they can add additional substance to the one paragraph that was provided by the standing committee. They could express other concerns. They could draw in the comparison, as the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan did, with what is happening in Ukraine today.

As one of my colleagues said, the Conservatives are putting politics above people. That is shameful. If the member or the Conservative Party, because I think this is its agenda, did not want to use one of their opposition days and were keen to have this debate in a forum that would allow people to really get engaged on the issue, why would they not approach the government and ask for a take-note debate? To the very best of my knowledge, and I sit on the House leadership team, that was not done.

There is no member who brings forward more petitions than the member across the way. How many petitions has he tabled with respect to this connection for humanitarian aid, the Lachin corridor? I will get more into that shortly. To what degree has that taken place? Better yet, I am having a difficult time trying to recall when the member rose with a request for an emergency debate on this issue. The reason we cannot remember a date is that he did not request one.

The only reason this concurrence motion has been brought forward for us today is because the Conservative Party has, once again, fallen into two principles. The first is character assassination. Every opportunity the Conservative members get, they try to make the Prime Minister of Canada look bad, even if it spreads false information. They are very good at this. The other thing they want to do is frustrate the House and what is taking place on the floor. Today is a very good example of that.

The member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan in particular, and all Conservative members, needs to realize that the people they are hurting—

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Though broad, there still are parameters of relevance. I am sure there are members who want to speak—

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

The member has made reference to the issue, and the parameters are broad.

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

Foreign Affairs and International DevelopmentCommittees of the HouseRoutine Proceedings

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, if the member were actually listening, he would have heard the comments I made about the motion and the reason why it was before us.

I have read the motion. After reading the motion, it will not take people too much to get a better sense of it and understand it. Instead of reading the speech that was delivered by the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, all people need to do is go to Google and type in the words “Lachin corridor”. Let us remember that is what the motion is about. It states:

That the committee report to the House that it calls on the Azerbaijani authorities, in accordance with its obligations as a party to the trilateral declaration of November 9, 2020, and following the appeal made by the Government of Canada on December 14, 2022, to reopen the Lachin Corridor...

It is important because it is about issues such as freedom and humanitarian aid.

If people who are following debate feel that is the issue they want to look more into, Wikipedia has a nice graphic picture on it. I looked at it while the member was speaking. Albeit not overly comprehensive and may not necessarily give justice to the issue, there is something there. The Lachin corridor is a mountain road that links Armenia and the Republic of Artsakh. Being the only road between these two countries, it is considered a humanitarian corridor or a lifeline. Being a lifeline, it plays an absolutely critical role for what is taking place on the ground.

Canadians have consistently said that humanitarian aid is important. Actions by the Government of Canada are always expected. When I think of foreign aid, it is critically important that we differentiate between the perpetrators, or the people who are causing the problems, and the people who are having to live with the result of what other people are doing to them, and under some horrific circumstances, including starvation and all forms of abuse.

We see conflicts taking place around the world, and Canada is a very diverse nation. Often when something is happening on the other side of the world, Canada has an interest. We often find that Canada has members of that community living in Canada and calling it home. However, part of the Canadian identity means that they do not come to Canada and forget their homeland. They can still be a hard-working, proud Canadians but maintain those strong, often emotional ties to their homeland. When people share those lived experiences with workers or the environment in which they live in Canada, it overflows into the main population.

When we see the number of conflicts that are taking place around the world, we begin to understand why Canadians are very much in tune with the importance of humanitarian aid, whether it is to individuals or organizations. For a country the size of Canada of just under 40 million people, we contribute a lot toward humanitarian aid. We contribute a lot to the issues of freedom and rule of law, because those are important Canadian values. We see that on an ongoing basis

I made reference to the fact that the report the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan has brought forward was tabled in February. I questioned whether he understood there was a response to that report, because he did not cite the response. I have a letter of response that was provided, and I would like to go through it so the member in particular, and the Conservative Party, understands the response.

Members should keep in mind that this response was given back in June, so I did a Hansard search. Did the member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, who I know will get an opportunity to ask a question of me, follow up on that report? Did he write to the minister and provide his opinions on it? Did he provide any feedback with respect to the report that was tabled? I do not know. I will wait for the member to stand, when it comes time for questions and comments, and possibly answer that question. What was his official response? Did he ignore it? I anxiously await.

Since I only have two minutes, and in case the member does not have a copy of it, if I could have unanimous consent, I would be happy to table the response of June 14.

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Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Does the hon. member have unanimous consent to table the response?

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Some hon. members

Agreed.

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Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, it is important. Since this is the only copy I have, I will give it to the member opposite and maybe he could make a a few copies for himself and give the copy back to me. I am interested in knowing how he responded to it.

He said that it was a tabled document already, that they had it already, so that means he is aware of it being there.

As I said at the very beginning, at the end of the day, with all the opportunities the Conservative Party have had to raise an issue of this nature, they intentionally have chosen to stay away from the issues that Canadians are facing today. The Conservatives knew full well that we were supposed to be debating this morning the issues of housing, inflation, grocery chains and price stabilization.

Those are the types of issues that are causing so much pain in our society today, and the Conservatives have chosen to avoid that debate. We will find out whether the member has read the letter and if he has anything to say about it.

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Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, it is an absurd spectacle we have just seen, of a government member asking the permission of the House to table a document that has already been tabled in a desperate effort to fill 20 minutes on a subject he clearly knows absolutely nothing about. Of course, I read the government's response and, unfortunately, it suggested a weakening of the tone compared to the tone the minister had taken previously on the same issue. This underlined for me the importance of having this concurrence debate.

The parliamentary secretary needs to understand that this is actually a really important issue for—

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Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

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Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

I will interrupt the hon. member because he has been distracted. I would ask the hon. member to go back a few seconds in his question.

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Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, I was not really expecting much in response, but it is good for him to hear and we will give this a shot.

This is an extremely important issue. We are talking about the lives and security of people in a different part of the world, but a commitment to universal human solidarity and the international rules-based order should motivate us to be concerned about them.

We have had extensive debates in this House on a broad range of issues, but this is absolutely a legitimate and important topic for the House to be discussing, and a concurrence motion is the tool we have for raising it. Why is the member dismissing that instead of engaging?

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Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, I pointed out at the beginning of my comments the many mechanisms there for us to ensure we can have healthy debates, including opposition days, emergency debates and take-note debates.

However, this is a day we are supposed to be debating the important issues I pointed out, such as inflation, housing, the cost of groceries and the need for stabilization. These are the things Canadians want us to be talking about. Nothing is to take away from other opportunities to debate this issue. After all, it has been here for almost nine—

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Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

Questions and comments, the hon. member for Jonquière.

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Bloc

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

Madam Speaker, this may be a first: I am about to agree with the member for Winnipeg North. That rarely happens. The fact is that I do not understand it either. For months, we have listened to the Conservatives talk to us at every opportunity about the cost of living and the cost of housing. We could be debating these issues in the House this morning. We had speakers ready and waiting to do so.

Then, using a parliamentary procedure, they changed the debate to discuss a report of no particular urgency at all. Even if the situation in question was urgent, I do not think we will be solving that problem today. This move was a distraction. I get a sense that what the Conservatives really want today is simply to waste time.

This has something to do with the completely irrational claims I have been hearing lately. Quebeckers are being told that they are paying a non-existent carbon tax. Some people are trying to convince them that my party is in cahoots with the government to raise the price of gas, when we know full well that it is the big oil companies that are driving prices based on refinery rates. We will never hear a Conservative criticize that.

I would like my colleague from Winnipeg North to give us his take on the Conservative Party's motives today.

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Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, I sense frustration from the Bloc member. I too join him in the frustration, because I too recognize these issues that are having such an impact on Canadians. No matter where one lives in Canada, the issues we were supposed to be debating today are having an impact. There is legislation to address this. We need to pass that legislation, Bill C-56, which is there to support Canadians from coast to coast to coast. That is what we were supposed to be debating.

For people who maybe do not necessarily follow all the details of the proceedings of the House, this motion brought forward by the Conservative Party has very little to do with the issue within the motion and has everything to do with trying to frustrate the debate on these very important issues. This legislation is important. We should be passing Bill C-56. There are other opportunities for the Conservatives to debate this issue. It is an important issue.

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Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I will take this one step further. Whenever there is a concurrence motion put on the floor in order to disrupt the agenda of the day, it is almost always done by the Conservative member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan. It is almost as though Conservatives have laid out how this process unfolds every time, and they call on him to come into the House to put forward a motion of concurrence, which basically just disrupts the agenda for the day, so we cannot discuss those very important issues Canadians are relying on us to discuss.

Does the parliamentary secretary feel the same way I do and can he expand on why he thinks it might be the case that this particular member routinely does this?