Debates of Oct. 22nd, 2024

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I want to remind the member that she is to address all questions and comments through the Speaker and not directly to the members.

The hon. member for Longueuil—Saint‑Hubert.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Madam Speaker, in the weeks leading up to the last budget, the federal government launched a $250-million program to address the homelessness crisis in Canada. A promise was made to end this crisis within the next few years. Today, however, there is still no agreement, in particular with Quebec. Last week we learned that the number of people who died in Quebec's streets has tripled in the past five years. They died from exposure to cold or overdoses.

For the last few weeks, we have been hashing over something that everyone in the House agrees on, except, of course, the government. We agree on the need for more transparency and accountability. Does my colleague not think that it is time to move on, to vote on this issue, so that we can start discussing other topics like the country's housing and homelessness crises?

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Madam Speaker, I do not know what is more important than talking about the NDP-Liberal government, which does not want to be transparent with Canadians and is refusing to provide unredacted documents to the RCMP so that it can be investigated for misspending taxpayer dollars. Do we want to talk about homelessness, unaffordability and the cost of living for Canadians? The government has taken hard-earned taxpayer money, wasted it and given it to Liberal insider friends for projects that do not benefit Canadians. That money would have been better spent on seniors or on helping lift people out of poverty. Instead, the government has put them into poverty by wasting away taxpayer dollars and making life so unaffordable for Canadians that they are having a hard time making ends meet and are lining up at food banks in record numbers.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Uqaqtittiji, both the Liberals and the Conservatives are filibustering by having this endless debate rather than focusing on issues, such as maybe approving the Kivalliq hydro-fibre link project in Nunavut. That would help fight climate change and get Nunavut communities off diesel.

Does the member agree that the Conservatives are just as responsible for the state the House of Commons is in?

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Madam Speaker, that is a pretty rich comment coming from a member of the NDP, who is no better than the Liberal government. In fact, they are the ones who have been propping up the government for the last four years. If we want to talk about corruption, the NDP members are just as guilty as the Liberals because they have been the accomplices in propping up the government while the Liberals continue to squander and waste taxpayer money.

Now the government is refusing to give unredacted documents to the RCMP so that this can be investigated further. We know there is wrongdoing there; obviously, they are hiding it. If they did not have anything to hide, why would they not just hand over the documents?

[Todd Doherty, Conservative, Cariboo—Prince George, BC]

Madam Speaker, I want to bring us back to the topic of the day: the fact that over $400 million of taxpayer funds was essentially stolen. The Auditor General found 186 conflicts of interest where Liberal appointees, the Liberal chair and other members of the board of directors, funnelled $400 million of taxpayer money to their own companies.

I am going to ask this colleague the same thing as what I have asked other colleagues. The Liberals would like us to get this to committee so that they can study it. However, when somebody steals from our hon. colleague, does she call a committee or does she call the RCMP?

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Madam Speaker, I actually have an email here from a constituent of mine. His name is John, and he asks that same question: “How can someone withhold evidence and not be in jail? I steal a chocolate bar and I go to jail, and yet politicians are stealing our money and nothing happens. We need a significant change in this country. We need people who will actually work for Canadians and not their pocketbooks.”

My colleague is absolutely right. We would call the police if somebody were stealing from us. In this instance, the government needs to hand over those unredacted documents and give them to the police. This is not a matter for a committee to look at; we are far beyond that at this point. We need the RCMP to look into this corruption. With 186 instances of mismanagement and of irregularities, something has to give. The Liberals need to give their unredacted documents to the RCMP.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, false facts and misinformation are all we hear coming from the Conservative benches. If we go to the last question, the member said we appointed a Liberal as the chair. The chair the member is referring to was an adviser to Stephen Harper and Brian Mulroney, both Conservatives, and Jim Flaherty, who is another Conservative, and contributes thousands and thousands of dollars to the Conservative Party. However, that does not matter; the facts do not matter.

For the Conservatives, this is nothing more than a cheap political game they play at a great cost. Tens of thousands of dollars have been wasted because of this game. However, it is not the only game. Here is another game. To quote iPolitics, the Conservative leader is “‘playing with Canadians’ by refusing to get a top-level security clearance and receive classified briefings on foreign interference, according to one national security expert.” Again, this is a national expert who advises both Liberal and Conservative governments. It is nothing but games.

Why will the leader of the Conservative Party not do the honourable thing and get a security clearance so that he can at least be in tune with foreign interference?

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am going to read something interesting. My colleague across the way wants to talk about facts, so here is a fact. A whistle-blower said this to the public accounts committee: “Just as I was always confident that the Auditor General would confirm the financial mismanagement at SDTC, I remain equally confident that the RCMP will substantiate the criminal activities that occurred within the organization.” The Conservatives trust the whistle-blower, and that is why we need to turn these documents over to the RCMP for an investigation now.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, my question for my hon. colleague is very clear and simple. I know it has been asked already, but I want an answer. Why will her leader not get a security clearance so he can be briefed on information about foreign interference in this country? Is it because he has something to hide? Is it because he is afraid that he will not pass the security clearance, will not get the security clearance? We know that if he becomes prime minister, he will not need to get one because by default a prime minister has one. Why will he not get one now?

[Lianne Rood, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Madam Speaker, Canadians are more concerned about being able to put the next meal on their table to feed their children. Canadians are more concerned about being able to pay the heating bill about to come in the mail as the weather turns colder. Canadians are concerned about being able to pay their mortgage right now. Every single policy out of the Liberal government in the last number of years has driven Canadians deeper and deeper into debt, and they are having a harder time making ends meet. That is the fault of the NDP-Liberal government.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Madam Speaker, I rise today to discuss the Speaker's decision concerning the production of documents related to the scandal surrounding Sustainable Development Technology Canada, or SDTC, as ordered by the House. The House ordered the production of documents concerning this scandal so that they could be turned over to the law clerk and, potentially, to authorities for investigation.

The process is not complicated. The House has powers that override any other entity, but the Privy Council Office, which reports directly to the Prime Minister, decided to circumvent this order by asking the departments to redact the documents before sending them along. This was a breach of members' privilege, because the order issued by the House did not call for redactions. This scandal raises serious concerns about the management of taxpayers' money and the governance of public funds.

We have just returned from a constituency week. For three days, my team and I set up a passport booth to help people who had not had the privilege of travelling and who could not understand the forms or fill them out properly. We wanted to make it easier for them to get a passport and, in some cases, to avoid extra steps, like taking photos and photocopying their ID. My main goal was to meet with my constituents. Over those three days, we interacted with more than 500 people.

One thing was clear. Canadians are tired of the Liberal government. This government is at the end of its life. It is out of touch with the reality facing people in Quebec's regions. When a 10-year passport costs $160 and a five-year passport costs $120, some people will not apply for a 10-year passport because they cannot afford the extra $40. Then they turn on the news and see the CEO of CBC/Radio-Canada billing taxpayers $6,000 for a personal vacation. This arrogant attitude is not surprising. As elected members, we must set an example.

It is a symptom of Liberal governance, under which no one is accountable and someone can be called out by the Ethics Commissioner without any consequences. It is also typical of this laissez-faire attitude, this lack of ethics and judgment on the part of certain individuals who managed the green fund. People approached me during those three days to ask what I was doing. They said that the Liberals' management of the green fund was worse than the sponsorship scandal.

Let us review the facts to put them in perspective. Twenty years ago, in May 2002, the then auditor general of Canada, Sheila Fraser, began her investigation into what became known as the sponsorship scandal. Ms. Fraser submitted a damning report to the Liberal government of the day in November 2003. The government prorogued the parliamentary session to delay the tabling of the report, which was not made public until February 2004. Ms. Fraser estimated that roughly $100 million of the $250 million allocated to the sponsorship program between 1997 and 2002 had been misappropriated.

Let us now look at a few facts about the SDTC scandal that have Canadians saying that history is repeating itself. In November 2022, whistle-blowers reported their internal concerns about unethical practices at SDTC to the Auditor General.

In September 2023, the whistle-blowers took the allegations public, and the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry agreed to suspend SDTC funding. In November 2023, the Auditor General announced an audit, and in June 2024 the Auditor General's report was released, finding severe governance failures at SDTC.

The Auditor General found that Sustainable Development Technology Canada gave $58 million to 10 ineligible projects that, on several occasions, could not demonstrate an environmental benefit or development of green technology. There was $334 million, over 186 cases, that was given to projects in which board members held a conflict of interest, while $58 million was given to projects without ensuring contribution terms were met.

On June 10, the House adopted a motion calling for the production of various documents related to Sustainable Development Technology Canada to be turned over to the RCMP for review. On September 26, the Speaker issued a ruling on the question of privilege and found that the privileges of the House had, in fact, been breached. Now the Prime Minister is working on keeping his job instead of working for Canadians. Prorogation is looming over Parliament.

This is not just about numbers or about wasting taxpayers' money. It is about trust, fairness and accountability. Canadians deserve a government that respects them and that does not hide behind bureaucratic excuses. Rather than answering for its actions, the government has redacted documents, as it is wont to do. The government wants to block investigations to protect those who are at fault. According to the Auditor General, the government made no attempt to uncover criminal intent. How can we trust a government that covers up its own failures?

This week, we are celebrating small business owners during Small Business Week. The SDTC scandal once again shows that this Liberal government is picking who the winners are and who the losers are. What could be more frustrating for a business owner who sacrifices so much time to grow their their business than to see on the evening news that some entrepreneurs with privileged connections are finding it easy to get subsidies?

I take the time to visit the SMEs in my riding. I take the time to talk about their situation, to take an interest in the owners' lives. Customers have no money. Sales are down, and popular products are often the ones with the lowest profit margins. Businesses are struggling to keep up with expenses that are rising faster than inflation.

What they see and hear is the Auditor General of Canada blaming their government for wasting money.

Canadian entrepreneurs are shocked by the government's actions, and I understand. I even understand the impact it can have on their mental health. One of them told me he cannot sleep at night. He invested everything and did everything he could, but he has no cash left. He also told me that he could not help but feel that he does not know the right people or is not in the right riding when he thinks about the SDTC scandal or the huge sums invested in Taiga Motors in Shawinigan. Winning conditions need to be restored for everyone. People need justice and fairness, as well as confidence in the future. The green fund and the financial failure at Taiga Motors are not the only concerning federal investments for the people of my riding of Chicoutimi—Le Fjord.

The government also invested large sums of money in Elysis technology. Some people are telling me that the government would have done better in terms of governance and monitoring if the funds had been used to serve the best interests of Canadians. For example, I was told that the Department of Innovation, Science and Industry could have required the National Research Council of Canada to assess the project and play a role in leading it and setting policy directions, as well as executing certain aspects of the work.

Naturally, such large investments demand a great deal of prudence. The Liberals, of course, are completely unfamiliar with economic prudence. This is clearly evident in the debt and deficits that are consistently higher than their forecasts, each and every time.

This government is living on borrowed time, with the complicity of the Bloc Québécois. It is trying its best to fight its last battles, but they are purely ideological, like their decision to issue the woodland caribou order.

This government, which claims to be environmentalist, gives out money allocated for sustainable development without any obligation to achieve results, while it withholds hundreds of millions of dollars promised to Quebec for biodiversity protection. Workers, business owners and forestry communities are paying the price for this fight. Under the Liberals, it is not the workers or the business owners or forestry communities that will benefit from these funds. We can be sure of that. It is safe to say that there are not a lot of Liberal supporters in the regions in Quebec.

The government is allowing the forestry sector to wither away. It is allowing the European Union to eat into our market share, although it had plenty of money, given the astronomical sums that were squandered in the green fund. That money was needed to harvest more of the wood that was burned by the forest fires. That money could have been used to make our forests more fire resilient and to better adapt to climate change.

That money could have been used to improve our performance in adding value to forest products. It could have been used to develop new markets or new products from species that will thrive in a changing climate.

Canadian families are struggling every day to keep a roof over their heads, to put food on the table and to heat their homes. Meanwhile, the government is misappropriating hundreds of millions of dollars to line its friends' pockets. This is unacceptable and intolerable. We have a right to see the hidden documents. We have a right to understand why this money, our money, is being used to fund companies that are close to power, while we, the people, are struggling to maintain a decent life in a country where everything is becoming out of reach.

This country is not a Liberal family business. Canada belongs to Canadians. Every dollar we pay in taxes must be spent on making life better for everyone, not on lining the pockets of a select few. We need to demand that these documents be handed over, so we can get to the bottom of this and the RCMP can investigate without obstruction. It is a matter of justice for all.

The Auditor General revealed that 82% of Sustainable Development Technology Canada's financial transactions over a five-year period were tainted by conflicts of interest. That means $330 million worth of taxpayers' money went to companies in which board members had a direct or indirect interest. Publicly funded initiatives such as Sustainable Development Technology Canada must have the confidence of the public and investors to ensure sustainable and transparent economic development across the country. If Sustainable Development Technology Canada's practices continue to be unworthy of this trust, projects critical to our collective future may be stalled. We need to take a moment to reflect on what that really means. If Canadians lose faith in their government and its institutions, that puts our democracy at risk.

How can we build a strong and sustainable future if we are surrounded by an atmosphere of mistrust and cynicism? It is crucial that everything about these practices comes to light to ensure that investments in strategic sectors such as clean technology are made in a fair and transparent manner. This scandal tarnishes the credibility of the management of public funds at the national level, but it also has a direct impact on the future of all Canadians.

We cannot let this government continue to rob us of our future. We have to say enough is enough. That is why we are demanding full transparency. Canadians deserve the truth. They have a right to know where their money is going and to demand a government that respects them, a government that will put an end to corruption. Only common-sense Conservatives will do that. We have seen too many scandals, too much waste and too much secrecy. We will put an end to this corruption and put power back in the hands of Canadians. Together—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I must interrupt the hon. member because his time has expired. However, he will be able to add to his remarks during questions and comments.

The hon. member for Nepean.

[Chandra Arya, Liberal, Nepean, ON]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member mentioned the deficits. During the last two years, when global inflation affected Canadians and resulted in cost of living increases, we continued to invest in Canadians. We continued to take measures and introduce programs to help Canadians who had been deeply affected. The investments we made are yielding fruit. Inflation is down to 1.6%. Interest rates are coming down. In fact, tomorrow the interest rate is probably going to come down for the fourth time. The consumer confidence index has been the highest in the last 30 months.

Does the member recognize that, as the Conservatives were constantly attacking the programs we were rolling out, today they are yielding results? What is his reaction?

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Madam Speaker, it is rather surprising to hear my colleague say all those things when Canada has not been doing well at all since this government took office.

I remember that, in the beginning, when the economy was doing really well, this government continued to invest in infrastructure, even though the business owners were saying that they did not need that money. They said that they did not even have any more room to do their work. They were wondering what the government was doing there. They said that the economy was doing great and that wasting money like that made no sense.

Since this government has been in office, the rate of crime has skyrocketed, as has the cost of living, inflation and so on. We are always paying the price.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Speaker, I quite agree with my colleague that this government lacks transparency. That is obvious.

However, there was something in his speech that caught my attention even more. It was when he said that the Bloc Québécois was acting from purely ideological motives. I would like to hear him explain how MAID, protecting supply management and increasing seniors' purchasing power are ideological.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate my colleague's question, but that is not what this debate is about. Today's discussion is about the fact that the government has redacted documents, in typical Liberal fashion. It has blocked investigations and protected wrongdoers. We want to see these documents. That is what today's debate is about.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Uqaqtittiji, the Conservatives, throughout the course of this debate and this filibustering, are showing the extent to which they are willing to play games in this House, but they are not the only ones. The Liberals and Conservatives both are using procedures that are resulting in this stalemate.

If the member truly care about his constituents, is he willing to advise his leadership that what is best for all of our constituents and this House is to move this debate to committee so that we can start debating other important matters, for example, funding the Kivalliq hydro-fibre link project in Nunavut?

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Madam Speaker, I think it is actually my colleague who does not care about her constituents, since she is the one who reached an agreement with the current government to keep propping it up and accepting its inflationary spending. Then, by just rubber-stamping everything the government was doing, despite how difficult things are in Canada, her party was not honest with Canadians, in my opinion.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lévis—Lotbinière, QC]

Madam Speaker, I would like to congratulate my colleague from Chicoutimi—Le Fjord on his speech. He is a real member of Parliament who works very hard for his constituents.

In his speech, he talked about something that caught my attention, specifically, the woodland caribou order. We have often heard my colleague say in the House that 1,400 jobs could be lost and will soon be lost because of an order issued by the Liberal government. Could Sustainable Development Technology Canada, or SDTC, have invested in caribou genetics instead of shutting down an entire region and killing a huge number of jobs?

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Madam Speaker, I want to thank my colleague. Forestry workers are very worried right now. I think that the government has not done much for the forestry sector.

If not for all the waste and all these scandals, I think there would have been enough money to set aside for forest management and to take care of the forestry sector a bit. I think that Canadians need to know the truth. We want to have the documents.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I have what is perhaps more of a comment than a question. I listened to the intervention by my NDP colleague a moment ago, and I would humbly suggest to the NDP that there is another way to get through this charade, and that is by the NDP working with the government, like it used to in the supply and confidence agreement that we had.

To my NDP colleague, who is now blaming not just the Conservatives but the Liberals as well for playing games, I would suggest that perhaps the NDP might be playing a bit of a game. If its members wanted to, they could help us get through the motion we have now been debating for, I believe, 15 days. I want my NDP colleagues to know that the door is always open if they want to have that discussion.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I believe that this question was not really meant for the hon. member, but he can answer it if he likes.

[Richard Martel, Conservative, Chicoutimi—Le Fjord, QC]

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his comments. What I would like to know is whether he still has confidence in his Prime Minister.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member is not really allowed to ask questions.