Debates of Oct. 22nd, 2024

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

We are debating the subamendment to the privilege motion on the government's refusal to release the documents on the corrupt Liberals, which has nothing to do with the subject of that question.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, on that point of order, I am referencing what the member said at the beginning of his speech. I am asking a question about what he said during his speech.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member did put that in his speech. He has risen to answer the question, so I will allow him to answer the question.

I do want to remind members that they should keep their speeches, as well as their questions and comments, relevant to the debate that is before the House.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Madam Speaker, just shortly before that motion, the Conservative Party brought forward a motion for the House to call upon the Prime Minister to release the names of the members of Parliament who have knowingly or wittingly collaborated with the foreign interference, and my colleague said no to that. I am very comfortable with my saying no.

[Mark Gerretsen, Liberal, Kingston and the Islands, ON]

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. That is not true. I was not even in the room when that motion was brought forward.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

This is now becoming other points of debate, so we are going to move forward.

The hon. member for Longueuil—Saint‑Hubert.

[Denis Trudel, Bloc, Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC]

Madam Speaker, this is all a bit rich. For the past little while, the Conservatives have been talking about everything and the kitchen sink during their 20-minute speeches. When we ask them about it, they do not want to answer and say that it is not related to the topic.

They are completely off topic. They are bashing the government. They are bashing the other opposition parties. They talked about us earlier, and we were unable to answer them. I really find it all a bit rich. I wonder if the Conservatives have been instructed to slow down their speeches, because they are so boring. It has been endlessly mind-numbing to have to listen to this all day.

There are major crises happening outside the House at this very moment. We have a language crisis, a climate crisis and a housing crisis.

By debating this and wasting time on it, when the entire House agrees and we could vote on it, does my colleague seriously think that we are serving Canadian democracy?

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Madam Speaker, I do not know if I should give a slow answer to that or if my colleague will still be awake at the end of my response. The integrity of this government is on the line. The people of Canada are questioning why their money is going to others when it should be coming back to them, and that is not being answered. That is something that is worth debating, and that is what we are here to do.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, the member talked about one taxpayer, and certainly the NDP believes, whether it is a Liberal scandal or a Conservative scandal, that we need to get to the bottom of things. That is why we are supporting the motion.

I recall, during the Harper regime, a multitude of Conservative scandals, and the Conservatives blocked any transparency at all. Parliamentarians were not able to get to the bottom of the ETS scandal, which was $400 million; the G8 scandal, at $1 billion; the Phoenix pay scandal, at $2.2 billion; or the anti-terrorism funding, at $3.1 billion. The Conservative corruption, in terms of dollars, was even worse than the Liberals', yet Conservatives blocked transparency every single time.

I am going to ask the member a very clear question that I know his constituents are asking. Gary Grewal, a conservative Saskatchewan MLA, was just indicted by the ethics commissioner in Saskatchewan for having stolen three-quarters of a million dollars in government contracts.

Will the member stand up in the House and condemn Gary Grewal and the conservative Saskatchewan Party for having fleeced taxpayers?

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Madam Speaker, I want to stick to things that are relevant to the speech I brought forward, so I will circle back with the one taxpayer. We are seeing that the carbon tax is not only affecting the taxpayer; it is being downloaded to different levels of government, such as the provincial government, where school board and hospital taxes are going up. What could a million dollars do for a new school? What could a million dollars do for a hospital? Those taxes are being downloaded onto municipalities—

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

I am sorry.

The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby had an opportunity to ask a question, and I am having a hard time hearing what the hon. member is trying to respond. I would tell the hon. member that if he has other questions or comments, he should wait until the appropriate time.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, I have a point of order. I asked the member a specific question. He has to answer it.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

Now it is becoming a point of debate.

The hon. member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands has a point of order as well.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Madam Speaker, the member over here knows that the question the member tried to ask was not relevant to the debate or even the business—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

These are not points of order; they are parts of the debate. The hon. member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands also interjected at one point, and I had to call for order, so I would just ask members to please hold on to their thoughts and comments until the appropriate time.

The hon. member for Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan has the floor

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Madam Speaker, as I was saying, there is one taxpayer. As for the impacts of the carbon tax, which my colleague seems to be on board with in supporting the Liberal government and its corruption, he fails to recognize that the carbon tax is being downloaded onto provincial levels of government, such as the school board—

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

Again, I want to remind the hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby that if he wants to continue participating in the debate, he needs to wait until the appropriate time.

If the hon. member for Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan can just wrap it up, I can get to another question.

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Madam Speaker, I was having so much fun. I could be here all day. I do not mind.

As I was saying, municipalities are being impacted. Municipalities, universities, schools and hospitals are not getting the refunds. People are paying more for the carbon tax. They are out of pocket, and it is a scam. It is another scandal. We need a new government.

[Martin Shields, Conservative, Bow River, AB]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the speech my hon. colleague gave today. I know he is very concerned about his community and some of the things the money could be going toward to be innovative and creative. In this particular case, we need to follow the money. I think that is what he was getting at. We have to follow the money so it gets to the right place. Would he like to comment on how critical it is to follow the money so we get it to the right place?

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

Madam Speaker, when we are in a position of servitude, as we are, we need to be accountable to those who have put us here.

Every taxpayer should know where their money is going, and right now we are not seeing that. It is a shell game. It is being moved around. Other people are getting it, and it is not going to the right places. It is being taken from the wrong people and given to the wrong people. It needs to go back to the taxpayer, and we need to get a new government in power.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, this is how this actually rolled out. The member entered the House and made the comment himself that he had said no to the NDP request to have all leaders of the House of Commons get the security clearance. He was very proud to say that he had said no. Then, in his answer to the question of my colleague, he said that my colleague had said no first. No, he did not, and that is not the way it worked out.

After the member said no to the NDP, we heard another motion, brought forward by his own political party, stating that the Liberals should release the names. There is a short answer to this. If the leader were to get the security clearance that every other leader in the House of Commons has, then he could get the names. However, he has chosen not to do that.

What is it that Canadians do not know about the history or the background of the leader of the Conservative Party that is causing him to not get the clearance? Did he do something illegal? Is that the reason he is not getting the clearance?

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

The member for Louis‑Saint‑Laurent on a point of order.