House of Commons Hansard #350 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was liberals.

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Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:05 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Madam Speaker, I want to thank my hon. colleague from New Westminster—Burnaby, who is an incredible advocate for not only his community but all Canadians in the fight for housing for all.

I want to speak to the imagination of many Canadians, including me. If these programs had not been gutted, we can imagine, for example, that the nearly 800,000 units that were sold off under the Harper government would still be here. They would have families in them. They would have people who can contribute to our economy rather than being on the streets.

Let us go back even further. If in 1993 Paul Martin had not cancelled the national housing strategy, largely getting Canada out of the business of supporting those who do not have homes, we would have nearly $2 billion in revenue today, maybe even more, to put toward social housing, co-op housing and transition housing. We would not have seen the problem get worse, and we could have eliminated the problem by now. What an incredible feat that would have been.

However, there is still hope. There is still a chance to get Canada back on track, to utilize the memory of many Canadians toward the great investments we have made for those who do not have homes. We can reinvigorate our economy. We can reinvigorate the imaginations of Canadians. We can rebuild optimism in our country if we just act, if we have a government that takes seriously the housing situation, not just off-loading the problem to rich developers, as the Conservatives would do, and not ignoring programs, as the Liberals do. A New Democratic government would truly build affordable homes by ensuring we build affordable units, co-op units and non-market homes, and we would end this crisis.

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Madam Speaker, in the member's earlier comments, he talked about some of the federal programs that rich and wealthy developers were able to benefit from. I do not completely disagree with him, but I am wondering why the New Democratic caucus, along with its Liberal friends, voted for the rental construction financing initiative. This program accounted for over a third of all funds allocated under the national housing program, and in that program, there is no requirement for developers to offer below-market rental housing units after 10 years. For those that are marked below the market rate, in many cases, like where I live in British Columbia, they are still not affordable.

Does the member believe that this program could have done a lot more to help low-income working Canadians, and why did his party support it?

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:10 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Madam Speaker, my heart is with those in the member's community who are experiencing homelessness. It is a real tragedy. If we could get unanimous support for the solutions that are offered to build very desperately needed social housing, perhaps we would be able to solve this crisis.

The reality of the rental construction program is that we have a terrible dichotomy between the Liberals, who do not want to do enough, and the Conservatives, who want to get more out of the business by cutting programs that many people rely on. We are stuck in this difficult situation.

We often hear from our constituents that this is an emergency and that we must invest what we can. The rental construction program could have been better. For example, imagine if we required, something the New Democrats fought for, that a portion of rental units had to be below the market rate. There are also additional items that relate to the ownership framework. After 10 years, one could dispose of those assets, transform those assets or transfer those assets to provincial or municipal governments or non-profit agencies.

The solution to the problem with the rental construction program is an acquisition fund. Imagine if we had an acquisition fund of $5 billion that would allow non-profits to buy rental units at a reduced cost because those rental units are subsidized. For example, if Boyle Street Community Services in Edmonton had a chance to buy them, it would—

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:10 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

We have to resume debate.

The hon. member for Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon.

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:10 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Madam Speaker, we are into our fourth week here in Ottawa since the summer recess of this chamber. Over the summer, like many people here, I spent a large amount of my time door knocking. I reconnected with my constituents and, indeed, British Columbians across the province. Irrespective of where I went in British Columbia over the summer, two issues came up every single time: First, people cannot afford to live there; second, the cost of living has gone up so much. I separate those two issues because the second is about groceries, car payments, insurance and so on, just the general cost of life. The shelter issue just deals with the exorbitant costs that British Columbians are faced with. I would argue that it is probably more acute where I live in the Fraser Valley and in the broader Vancouver region, the Lower Mainland. Some questions I heard from young Canadians are as follows: “What did I do wrong? What did my kids do wrong? Why is there no pathway for the life that I envisioned when I was growing up in British Columbia?”

A colleague and I were talking earlier today, and we reflected on when we graduated from university, around 2006-07, and the prospects we had for owning a home in the Lower Mainland, even in Vancouver. Back then, it was still affordable. Today, a six-figure salary, living in Abbotsford, is barely enough to cover rent and basic necessities. I never thought in my wildest dreams that we would come to a place in Canada where a six-figure salary would no longer necessarily be enough to raise a family. Let us break that down. Someone may be taking home $6,000 or $7,000 a month after taxes and any pension contributions on that salary, or maybe a little bit less. They may be making between $5,000 and $6,000 a month, or maybe a bit more, on a $100,000 salary. Right off the bat, they are going to be paying $3,500 of that to rent a house or a unit that will enable them to have kids. After that, they are going to have their car payment, their Fortis payment for natural gas, their cellphone bill and then, of course, their groceries and clothing.

If someone is starting out today and living on a salary of around $100,000 a year, it is not necessarily enough to get by. That is the sad reality of living in Canada right now. It does not have to be this way. It was not like that before. Many Canadians surmise that the Canada they once knew is no longer there. They do not know what happened; it happened so quickly. Was it during the pandemic? Was it afterwards? They did what they were told. They went to BCIT, UFV, SFU or UBC to get that degree. They landed that first job, maybe even working for government or a small business. They thought the money they were making right now would be enough to save up for a down payment, to start a family and to live the life they always wanted to live. That dream is dying at an alarming rate in British Columbia.

In fact, I am 40 years old. Some of the friends I grew up with just did not get in soon enough before housing costs skyrocketed in 2016, and then again in 2019, at such an alarming rate. They wonder about this. They have great jobs and their kids are in school, but they just do not have the security of home ownership. Alberta or the Maritimes are looking a lot better today than they did five years ago.

British Columbia is about the most blessed place that anyone could imagine. We have the best agricultural land found anywhere in the country in the Fraser Valley, in the Okanagan Valley or in the Cowichan Valley on Vancouver Island. British Columbians have natural resources in forestry, liquefied natural gas and mining that are essential to the security and well-being of all Canadians, yet we are not profiting from the wealth of our province. Many factors have led to this.

Most important is the housing market that has accelerated at a rate that young people who grew up in the province just could not keep up with, in terms of the market changes that happened so quickly. For many years, we tied it to the role of foreign buyers. The Conservative Party put forward a platform commitment to ban foreign buyers. The New Democratic Party put in a satellite tax for people not making money yet taking advantage of the generous social programming we have in our province.

However, the young person staying here today, the young nurse working at Abbotsford Regional Hospital who did everything right, does not care about all the different variables. The only things she is thinking about are when she can start a family, when she can settle down and when she can live a reasonable life that she should get as a British Columbian, as a Canadian, who followed all the rules. I guess our social contract seems a little broken right now.

Part of the reason it is broken relates to small businesses. The majority of Canadians are employed by a small business. Businesses with one to 19 employees employ 5.2 million Canadians. In 2023, small businesses reported lower revenues compared with 2022, and in 2024, they “remain less optimistic than larger businesses” in respect to their viability moving forward. In fact, three in 10 businesses in the one to 19 employees category reported lower revenues in 2023 compared with 2022. I would suggest that the numbers in 2024 may not be too different.

If our business owners do not feel they can offer salaries and paycheques at a rate that is tied to the cost of living, then young people are not going to want to stay and work in those positions. If someone works in public administration or in health care, the government cannot afford to give them a salary that keeps pace with the rampant inflation we have seen as well. Young people are stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I know that for a future Conservative government, we have some big challenges to address this problem, to create powerful paycheques again and to give these young people hope. Right now, they do not know what they are going to do and that is a problematic place to be.

One thing we could be focusing on that we have not addressed yet, and which, I think, there is broad unanimity in Parliament to address, is housing supply.

Yes, in my previous question in tonight's debate, I talked about the rental construction financing initiative, but there has been a historical amount of money allocated to building homes in Canada. Unfortunately, we have not seen those homes built yet. In the report we are discussing tonight, they talked about hearing from Infrastructure Canada, which is working with CMHC to address the real challenges young people are facing in our country. I think those are good recommendations and good points to follow up on.

One of the things the Conservative Party wants to do is tie future infrastructure dollars to the number of new homes being built. Across the board, the number one thing I think all governments recognize is that we need to build a lot more homes. Parliament is only one level of government that needs to play an active role in this but an important one, because we hold the federal taxation power.

The federal government funds a large portion of all infrastructure in Canada. I believe the federal government needs to start signalling, in real and concrete ways, to municipalities that until municipalities start permitting more, until they start being more efficient with the taxpayer dollars they collect through property taxes and development cost charges, and until they build the homes that young people need, the federal government is not going to give them the infrastructure dollars. I think we need to start with that.

It is not just me saying it. Romy Bowers, the president of CMHC, has said it again and again. I think every economist in the country understands that if we do not get a handle on supply, we are not going to meet the objectives of young Canadians. We have to meet the objectives of young Canadians.

The Conversation reported, “Canada’s housing market is among the most unaffordable, with one of the highest house-price-to-income ratios among OECD member states. Housing prices soared over 355 per cent between 2000 and 2021, while median nominal income increased by only 113 per cent.” Home ownership is increasingly precarious.

For people like me, us millennials, who are talking to their baby boomer parents or their parents' friends, when we say it is so much harder to get a home, they will say, “People just need to pull up their own bootstraps and get that second job.” Well, no. Today in British Columbia, in the Fraser Valley or Lower Mainland, it would take, on average, about 25 years just to save up for a down payment to purchase a first home. I think some of the cheapest homes in the community I live in, looking at townhouses, are easily over $600,000, probably $700,000, and for a single detached home, if you can still get one, it is more like $1.3 million or $1.4 million today. Even if someone is making a six-figure income right after graduating from one of our universities or trade schools, they are not going to be able to afford to get into the market. That needs to change, and supply needs to be a central component.

One of the biggest challenges we face related to supply, going back to our businesses, is that insolvencies have increased year over year. In the last report from Statistics Canada, the number of businesses in Canada has decreased by 9,000, most notably in the construction sector. Until we start doing something to change business confidence in Canada, we are not going to see more homes built because right now, be it because of the capital gains changes, the CPP and EI tax increases or the red tape that small businesses face, we are not going to see more people start businesses in the home-building construction sector. They do not see a path to profitability like they used to in Canada, despite the growing need. We have to change things on housing. We have to change the number of homes being built and how businesses feel that they can operate in the economy today.

I would be remiss in my time if I did not quickly touch upon homelessness because the biggest consequence of not building enough homes is that people are falling between the cracks more and more often across Canada. In October 2023, there were more than 30 homeless encampments spread out across the Halifax regional municipality. By July 2024, the number of homeless had risen to 1,316, a 30% increase in just nine months. According to Cheryl Forchuk, a professor at Western University in Ontario, “Government data estimates that there are some 235,000 homeless people across the country, but that is only counting people who access shelters.”

In some cases, even our refugees are homeless, including, for example, Ukrainian evacuees in Calgary. Agencies have said that they have found newcomers sleeping on the streets, at the airport or at homeless shelters because nothing else is available. Toronto's shelter system has seen a 283% rise in violence over the last decade due to overcrowding and inadequate mental health support. The PBO has outlined “that the number of chronically homeless people has increased by 38% relative to 2018.”

Habitat for Humanity noted, “61% of young Canadians aged 18-34 are concerned about their ability to pay their mortgage or rent over the next 12 months.” RE/MAX outlined in its fall 2024 market housing outlook, which just came out on September 3, that 28% of Canadians said they are considering moving out of not only British Columbia, but also our country for greater affordability. On October 31 of last year, The Globe and Mail reported, “A new survey suggests stalled construction projects are holding up the delivery of at least 25,000 homes across Quebec...the figure potentially represents just a fraction of the true number of blocked units...since just 42 of the association's members responded to the survey” related to housing construction in Quebec.

Regarding some of the government's responses to this, the housing accelerator fund has been a big failure. After giving Toronto $471 million, Toronto increased development cost charges by more than $20,000. Those costs are passed on to first-time homebuyers and others alike. After giving Ottawa $176 million, Ottawa increased its development charges by 11% and 12%.

Vaughan was given $59 million to reduce red tape, and within a year, it increased development charges by 25%, or nearly $40,000. Mississauga increased development charges by over $10,000 within a year of receiving $112 million from the Liberals under the housing accelerator fund. Abbotsford, my community, is proposing to increase development cost charges by 53%, despite receiving $25.6 million from the housing accelerator fund.

My next point is that municipalities cannot be putting their bureaucracy and red tape onto the buyers, who need more affordable homes, and the government has to put stricter conditions on funds like the housing accelerator fund if municipalities are going to access federal dollars.

One of the other consequences of our precarious housing market is the use of food banks. The need for food banks in British Columbia has never been greater than it is today. With 382,000 British Columbians living in poverty, according to the market basket measure, B.C. currently has the second-highest poverty rate in the country. This number includes 40,000 children in low-income families and 36,000 seniors.

In my own riding of Mission, it is reported that over 5,000 people access the food bank each month, in a town of 46,000 people, and 38% of those people are under the age of 18. Archway Community Services, also serving my riding, reports that Abbotsford can no longer meet the demands for increased food bank usage and is urgently looking for more space to fill donation bags and give children, especially, nutritious food.

Food Banks Canada's 2024 poverty report shows that almost 50% of Canadians feel financially worse off compared to last year, while 25% of Canadians are experiencing food insecurity. On top of this, Food Banks Canada reported that the cost of living has become so high that food banks have seen a 50% increase in visits since 2021.

As a direct consequence of the Liberal government's inflationary spending and taxes, millions of Canadians are struggling to keep their heads above water. New research from the Salvation Army shows that nearly a third of Canadians continue to feel pessimistic about their future and their personal finances, while 25% of Canadians continue to be extremely concerned about having enough income to cover their basic needs.

For this reason, Food Banks Canada downgraded the government's grade from a D in 2023 to a D- in 2024. Canadians desperately need relief, but the Liberal government is no longer listening. Last month, the Prime Minister decided to hike his carbon tax again, which is going to increase the cost of food again.

In conclusion, as food security worsens in this country, Conservatives are going to continue to call for an election to axe the carbon tax, to build more homes, to fix the budget and to stop the crime, which is an issue I did not even touch upon tonight. The Canadians I met with this summer at doorsteps reflect some of the damning statistics I listed off this evening. That is, they followed all the rules in Canada; they did what they were supposed to do, but the Canada they once knew is not the Canada today; and they do not feel they can get ahead in their province or in their country like their parents' generation could.

On this side of the House, Conservatives want to give young people a future again. We want to provide them hope, and right now they just do not feel that. We need to work to call an election, to have a carbon tax election, and bring Canadians affordability and change to restore hope once again.

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:30 p.m.

Liberal

Ron McKinnon Liberal Coquitlam—Port Coquitlam, BC

Madam Speaker, I would like to suggest to the member that it is incorrect to think of this as a new problem. One of the first meetings I took as a new MP back in 2016 was from people who said they could not afford to buy a house. That is one of the reasons we, as a government, put together all the means, the studies and the money to undertake the national housing program.

It is also true that the housing costs increased during the previous administration, not only the Harper years but certainly the Martin-Chrétien years, as well as in the previous administration, or the Mulroney years. In the Mulroney years, housing prices went up dramatically.

This is not a problem of government, it is a problem much more systemic than that. It is much more broad than that. It is unrealistic to expect that sweeping in with a new government and great new ideas is going to fix these underlying systemic problems.

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:30 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Madam Speaker, I will push back and say that the government allocated approximately $100 billion to make housing more affordable, but despite these record investments, we did not see the homes built that Canadians need. Government does indeed have a role to play. The leading reasons why homes are not being built are, number one, red tape and permitting processes; number two, access to workers to build the homes we need; number three, access to businesses to do that work to build the homes.

I believe that the government could have designed its programs more effectively, and the Liberals could have pushed municipalities to push for more density in the period of time that they have had in office. They did not even mention pushing for densification or tying infrastructure dollars to the number of housing starts until the last few months, even though it is well known that these are some of the key things that we can do to increase supply.

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:35 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Madam Speaker, we share a lot in common in terms of the problem. The problem is clear: Whether it is in British Columbia, in Alberta or here in Ontario, Canadians cannot keep up with the cost of their mortgage or their rent.

However, we differ in terms of the solution. I would agree with the member that the Liberals have spent a lot of money, but they have spent that money giving it out to large corporations like real estate investment trusts and other groups that build for-profit homes and sell those homes for profit. Any public spending should go to public good. In this case, the Liberals' housing strategy is public money for private good.

The Conservatives' solution is more of the same as the Liberals' approach. Rather than investing, however, we would still require municipalities or real estate investment trusts to build the homes that people could afford, but they are not going to do it. Their objective is purely profit.

How can the member square the circle that selling off public land to rich developers is in any way different from giving those same developers a boatload of money or a boatload of public land? The result is the same: Canadians have no homes. We need to have the courage to actually speak about non-profit and social housing. Could the member speak to those two points?

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Madam Speaker, with respect to the future objectives of a Conservative government, we can do a lot more to see housing starts improve drastically in Canada without actually spending any additional dollars. That would take leadership, and it would take a federal government that is willing to incent municipalities to improve processing times to get more homes built quickly and then tie housing starts to infrastructure dollars for other matters.

The federal government also has a role to signal, like with respect to the housing accelerator fund where all these big municipalities took federal money and, in addition to that, put more taxes onto the backs of homebuyers. We can stop all those things as well.

With respect to the comment about federal lands, I believe that the Treasury Board can establish efficient guidelines to ensure that people who are purchasing land from the federal government to build housing are subject to criteria that ensure that the land is being used for the best purposes of all Canadians. Maybe even in some cases, those lands are used for co-operative housing or different societies that want to help people suffering from addiction. We can do a lot more if we put the proper parameters in place. My argument today is that the current government never did.

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:35 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, even in opposition, Conservatives have put solutions before the House to address the housing crisis. One of them is Bill C-356, the building homes, not bureaucracy act. I am perplexed by the fact that all other parties voted against this common-sense piece of legislation. I asked the New Democrats tonight why they had opposed this bill and they said they had certain objections to the section about selling off federal lands.

However, notably, the section on selling off federal lands in this report would not prescribe particulars around what kind of housing would be constructed there. It does not contain limitations on additional policies that might be put in place around that. It simply says that a report would need to be tabled on an inventory of public buildings and land, identifying land suitable for construction and to propose a plan to sell at least 15% of any federal buildings; and that all land would be appropriate for housing construction subject to certain exceptions, and would require the Minister of Public Works to place these properties on the market within 12 months of tabling the report. The report does not contain any of the sort of strictures or necessary implications that the NDP has applied. It simply talks about making buildings and land more available.

On that basis, I do not see any credible reason why the other parties would have rejected the common-sense proposal that Conservatives have already put forward to the House. Does the member have any insight into why the other parties would have voted against this common-sense piece of legislation?

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:40 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Madam Speaker, indeed, I am baffled that the Liberal-NDP government did not vote in favour of some of the measures in here because, now, after our leader tabled the bill, it is trying to steal some of his policy measures and take credit for them, namely that cities must increase the number of houses built by 15% each year and have that compounded.

In addition to the comments by my colleague from Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, the building homes, not bureaucracy act would actually provide a 100% GST rebate on new residential rental property for which the average rent payable is below market rate. Imagine if a housing society or a group of concerned Canadians in a community wanted to build a new addictions treatment centre. The government would incentivize that through the GST rebate to get the type of housing Canadians need right now.

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:40 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Madam Speaker, I would like to have an opportunity to reply to some of the concerns related to the NDP's position on the Conservative housing program proposal.

In an ideal world, a group of concerned Canadians would come together and maybe access the 100% GST tax break, but the reality is, if they are going to be selling public lands, that goes to the group that is the highest bidder. Think of a real estate investment trust that is buying up land. The latest report suggests that 20% of all land is owned by real estate investment trusts. The problem lies in the market. Relying on the market to be the solution or incentive for why people should build homes on land they cannot afford is a silly proposition.

What I am suggesting is that a more realistic approach to the Conservative plan would allow the most wealthy among us, the billionaires, to outbid their neighbour for something they want to buy. To top it all off, the Conservative plan would give them, they just mentioned it, a 100% GST tax break. Therefore, the GST tax break would go to the billionaire who buys the public land, so the people are out of public land where they can build an affordable unit and are out the opportunity to collect revenue for real programs and services. That is why we are opposed to it.

Would the member comment on the importance of investing in social housing that is not on the market to avoid the program the Conservatives' bill would propose? Our solution to build affordable housing on public lands would actually put people in homes. Does he support it?

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:40 p.m.

Conservative

Brad Vis Conservative Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC

Madam Speaker, I will reiterate the point I made to the member for Edmonton Griesbach.

Under a Conservative government, we would have put in place effective due diligence measures established by the Treasury Board to ensure that those purchasing federal lands would do so in a way that would serve the broader public interests.

In respect to the difference between a Conservative government and New Democrats, they would probably do more of the same big, flashy announcements with dollars, but not the requisite follow-ups and checks. That is what we have seen from the NDP-Liberal government over the last 10 years.

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

7:40 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, of course, the House has been seized with debate over another scandal in the NDP-Liberal government for a number of days now. It has been seized with a question of privilege because the government is refusing to hand over documents that the House has ordered it to hand over.

Tonight, we are proceeding with concurrence debate; this is debate on whether the House should agree with the 31st report of the public accounts committee. This is a very important report that deals with the issue of homelessness.

Before getting into the particulars of the report, I think it is important to reflect on where we are as a country. For a long time in Canada, we had a deal, we had an understanding that if we worked hard, played by the rules and worked to serve our community to advance the common good, we would be able to live a healthy, happy and comfortable life. Sadly, as a result of policies pursued by the NDP-Liberal government over the last nine years, that deal is now broken.

As we turn to the issue of homelessness tonight, and to the issues of poverty that surround homelessness, more and more Canadians are struggling who never would have expected to be in this position before. People who spent their lives giving to food banks are now receiving from food banks as a result of changes in their situation because of decisions, actions and policies by the NDP-Liberal government.

The public accounts committee has a mandate to study and review reports of the Auditor General. The Auditor General analyzes various programs and policies of the government to see if they are meeting their stated objectives. It is not the Auditor General's role to make a priori determinations of the good, of what a particular policy should be. Rather, the Auditor General's role is to determine whether particular programs are lining up with the stated objectives, doing the things they are supposed to do and measuring the things they are supposed to measure, as well as whether actions of government accord with policies and objectives that have been put in place.

I have had the opportunity to serve on the public accounts committee. I am not currently a regular member, but I am there often nonetheless, and I was a member of it previously. Reviewing reports of the Auditor General, we found her consistent disappointment with the government failing to measure up to its stated objectives in its actions. The members talk a good game about a lot of things, but they fail to follow through and to deliver results. We see this time and time again with reports that come before the public accounts committee, in the fact that the government is not meeting its stated objectives, and it is not measuring or following appropriate policies in the process.

If we take a macro look at what the government is all about, what the problem has been over the last nine years, it is that we have a government that fundamentally believes it is the thought that counts. They want to express that they care. They want to put in place policies and frameworks with names that sound good, that exude a sentiment of solidarity. However, they are uninterested in whether these programs actually deliver results. They believe that it is the thought that counts. We believe that it is the results that count. We can have a policy that sounds good, but if it does not actually deliver positive outcomes, then what is the point? It is not the thought that counts.

Moreover, we often hear from the government members that we can read whether they care about an issue from how much money they spent on an item. They will tell us they are spending more on this and more on that. I think that is supposed to be a demonstration of their concern for a particular issue. They are spending a bunch of money on something under a particular policy heading, and we are supposed to read into this that they care about those kinds of issues.

What Canadians are really interested in are the results. If the government is spending more on something but the results are worse, then quite obviously people are worse off than they were before. I think what Canadians care about, particularly now when so many people are struggling, are not the good thoughts or the good intentions, or even the amount of money that is spent. They care about the concrete results and how they impact their lives.

As Canadians are struggling, they are reflecting on the fact that one cannot eat a good thought and cannot live in an announcement. A good intention will not keep them warm at night. This is the problem with the situation presided over by the NDP-Liberal government. Despite its desire for Canadians to conclude that it is the thought that counts, Canadians are realizing that they cannot eat a good thought and cannot live in an announcement, and that good intentions will not keep them warm at night.

That brings me to the particulars of the 31st report of the public accounts committee, which is extremely damning in its assessment of the government's performance when it comes to the issue of homelessness. I will just read, from the beginning of the report, the key findings of the Auditor General. The first is that “Infrastructure Canada and Employment and Social Development Canada did not know whether their efforts to prevent and reduce chronic homelessness were leading to improved outcomes”. They did not know whether what they were trying to do was actually leading to better outcomes. That is incredible.

The next finding is, “Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation did not know who was benefiting from its initiatives.” The third key finding was “minimal federal accountability for reaching the National Housing Strategy target to reduce chronic homelessness by 50% by the 2027–28 fiscal year”. That is incredible.

That is the government's much-vaunted housing strategy, and we find that the government literally does not know whether its efforts to prevent and reduce chronic homelessness are leading to results. It has no idea. It cannot claim that it is producing good results because, according to the Auditor General, it simply does not have that information. It is not tracking it. CMHC did not know who benefited from the initiatives, and there was minimal accountability for reaching the targets in the national housing strategy. That is extremely damning.

The government loves to talk about the fact that it has a national housing strategy. It says it has a great announcement, a great statement and a great framework, but it is not even assessing or measuring the results. It does not have basic information. It is not tracking whether its efforts actually produce good outcomes.

We can only conclude, from hearing the way the Liberals talk and then looking at the Auditor General's report, that they really believe that it is only the good thoughts that matter. They think it is the thought that counts instead of the results that count. It is time we have a government in this country that is authentically concerned about the well-being of Canadians; is concerned about the results of policies; is focused on virtue, not virtue signalling; and is focused on what happens to Canadians, not on wrapping itself in the aura of showing it cares through announcements and through expenditures, yet not tracking the results.

There is a damning report from the Auditor General after nine years of failure on housing. Of course, Canadians did not need to hear the report to know that the government is failing on housing. Canadians know that the deal that has defined our country, the deal that hard work leads to opportunity, has been broken under the government. Canadians know that the price of rent, the price of housing and the price of food are way up, and that life is becoming less affordable as a result of policies pursued by the government.

There is a failure to support the construction of new housing. The carbon tax has made food less affordable. Inflationary government spending far outstrips anything we have seen in this country before, more than doubling the national debt. These are concrete policies that are having concrete negative impacts on our national life.

It is time we have a government that is focused on virtue, not virtue signalling, and that cares about good results over good thoughts. In that spirit, Conservatives have not only begun to plan for an alternative government but have also concretely put before the House, in this Parliament, proposals to address the housing crisis right now. A more wise and more humble government would have adopted these proposals, but sadly the government has not.

Conservatives put forward Bill C-356, a comprehensive plan to address the housing challenges facing our country. It was put forward by the Leader of the Opposition. Bill C-356 is the proposed building homes, not bureaucracy act. People following at home can actually find the key recommendations in Bill C-356 and in the Conservative supplementary report at the back of the 31st report of the public accounts committee.

They are common-sense recommendations that I think any reasonable person would find worthy of support, yet all other parties in the House voted against the bill. It does not make any sense to me that members of the NDP-Liberal coalition would reject this common-sense plan. Of course, if there were particular details that they wanted to adjust slightly, they could have supported it at second reading and proposed those amendments at committee.

However, they did not just vote against particular provisions at a later stage; even if they thought the bill was imperfect, they were willing to throw it out wholesale. I do not think the bill is imperfect; I think it is an excellent bill that could have been adopted in its present form. NDP-Liberal members who are quibbling about details could have supported it to go to committee at least, but they did not; they rejected the principle of the bill.

What is in Bill C-356? First, it calls for the establishment of “a target for the completion of new homes in high-cost cities that increases 15% every year and ties federal infrastructure funding allocated to high-cost cities to that target”. Essentially, municipalities would have a target for new home construction, and if they exceed that target, they would get a bonus, but if they fail to meet that target, they would lose out on some federal funding. It would use federal funds to stimulate municipalities to take action to allow the construction of more homes in their community.

It would create an incentive for municipalities at the local level to remove red tape that prevents new home construction. It would not be prescriptive on how they do it. It would respect the principle of subsidiarity, allowing local decision-making around development, but it would set vitally necessary targets in order to move us forward in the direction we need, which is building more homes in this country.

The bill would “provide for the reallocation of $100 million from the Housing Accelerator Fund to municipalities that greatly exceed housing targets”. That is about rewarding municipalities that exceed their target.

Next is requiring “that federal transit funding provided to certain cities be held in trust until high-density residential housing is substantially occupied on available land around federally funded transit projects' stations”. In other words, if the federal government is putting money into a big transit project, it is common sense that we would expect that there be substantial new housing built around those transit stations.

That is a reasonable thing for the federal government to expect in the process of providing the funding. We would not want to see big new transit projects that were not associated with people's ability to actually live at and around where the transit stations are. The bill would also “make it a condition for certain cities to receive federal infrastructure transit funding that they not unduly restrict or delay the approval of building permits for housing”.

The bill would:

[amend] the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation Act, the National Housing Act and the Excise Tax Act in order to

eliminate executive bonuses unless housing targets are met, and reduce executive compensation if applications for funding new housing construction are not treated within an average of 60 days....

Bonuses should be based on results, something that, again, the government does not seem to believe. It thinks that it is the thought that counts. Conservatives believe it is the results that count, which is why we would tie any bonuses to the achievement of real outcomes.

The bill would provide a 100% GST rebate on new residential property for which the average rent payable is below the market rate. This is a specific incentive around average rent being below the market rate. I think there was some confusion about that earlier in the debate, so it is important to clarify. Finally, there is the point that the NDP apparently took issue with, which is this:

Require the Minister of Public Works to table a report on the inventory of federal buildings and land, to identify land suitable for housing construction and to propose a plan to sell at least 15% of any federal buildings and all land that would be appropriate for housing construction, subject to certain exceptions. In addition, require the Minister of Public Works to place these properties on the market within 12 months of tabling the report.

This is what the NDP objected to. Conservatives are proposing that we sell public land and public buildings for housing; the NDP said we cannot do that because wealthy people and corporations would then buy these lands, and we cannot have that. The point is not that we would give these lands away but that we would sell them and, in the process, promote the construction of new homes people could live in.

As part of the plan, we have to make more space available. We have the problem in this country that we are not building nearly as many homes as we did back in the 1970s, when we had far fewer people. We are not building homes in general to keep up with demand. Obviously, if we have supply not growing to keep up with demand, that is going to lead to higher prices, so we need to increase the supply overall.

The bill, as I read, contains provisions specifically around below-market rent, but part of the solution has to be increasing the housing supply in general. That is just basic economics, but other parties do not appear to appreciate or understand it.

If we had passed the bill, we could have begun the work of substantially increasing the supply of housing in this country right away. This would have led to more housing affordability. We did not wait for an election; we put Bill C-356 before the House, yet the NDP and the Liberals voted against the building homes not bureaucracy act.

As such, it is not the thought that counts; it is the results that count. Let us look not at the announcements or the spending figures; let us look at the results. Canadians are struggling. Housing costs and rent are way up. The price of food is way up, and crime is up as well. These changes are the result of policy decisions made by these governments.

Fundamentally, the Liberals are not working. Their agenda is not working. They are not attentive to the impacts that their agenda has had on Canadians, and this is why we need a new government in this country that will rigorously hold itself and the entire apparatus of the federal government to the achievement of results. It will focus not on good thoughts and good intentions, but on good results and on the common good.

We will replace the NDP-Liberal government, which has failed to deliver in so many areas, with a common-sense Conservative government that will axe the tax, build the homes, fix the budget and stop the crime. We will do this through such measures as Bill C-356, measures that make housing more affordable in reality; we can simply contrast the clarity of our common-sense legislation with the damning assessment by the independent Auditor General of the government's performance. They did not know whether their efforts prevented and reduced chronic homelessness; they did not know who benefited from their initiatives. There was minimal accountability for reaching the national housing strategy targets.

The government has failed. The Liberals have failed to even assess or measure the results. They have failed to show that they have any real concern about the outcomes for Canadians who are struggling. We need a new government that is concerned about outcomes. Since they insist on voting against the constructive proposals we put forward, the only choice now is to have a carbon tax election where we will bring about the change we need and give Canadians the homes they need. Let us bring it home.

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

8 p.m.

Conservative

Scott Reid Conservative Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON

Madam Speaker, my question to the member is about the pattern this report finds, which is so similar to a pattern we see repeated over and over again under the government.

We could look at the promise to plant two billion trees, with results that are wildly at variance and much lower, as a representative example. We expect governments to be imprecise, I suppose, and inefficient compared to the private sector sometimes, but why is the current government so spectacularly off its targets and so spectacularly inept in what it fails to accomplish as compared to its grandiose statements? What makes the government stand out as compared to others in the past?

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

8 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Madam Speaker, the hon. member is right to situate what we are talking about in the context of this report within the larger context of a government that does not care about results. It seems to believe it ought to be judged on its intentions instead of on the results it produces. However, Canadians are struggling and suffering, and they are not comforted by the fact that the government purports to have good intentions.

There are other examples of this failure to be concerned with results that I was going to get to and did not have the chance. One issue we are studying right now at the government operations committee is indigenous contracting. The government has a policy that is supposed to benefit indigenous businesses, yet it has been inept at actually determining who and what an indigenous business is.

It has allowed non-indigenous businesses that are not on any recognized list created by indigenous groups, or on anyone's list but its own, to claim to be indigenous and to then benefit from these programs and asides. The effect of that is that the government is able to say, “Look at us, we are helping indigenous businesses.” Then we have the AFN coming before committee and saying that only a small percentage of those claimed indigenous businesses are actually indigenous businesses.

The government gets to make its claim, but the outcomes are nowhere near what it claims. I think that happens so much because the government simply does not care to measure the results. It only cares about trumpeting its good intentions.

Canadians are seeing through that because they are experiencing the negative effects of the NDP-Liberal government's policies.

Public AccountsCommittees of the HouseConcurrence in Committee Reports

8:05 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

There being no further members rising for debate, pursuant to order made earlier today, the question is deemed put and a recorded division is deemed requested.

Pursuant to Standing Order 66, the recorded division stands deferred until Wednesday, October 9, at the expiry of the time provided for Oral Questions.

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Financial InstitutionsAdjournment Proceedings

8:05 p.m.

NDP

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

Madam Speaker, Canadians are increasingly worried about the broken promises, half measures and watered down policies of the Liberals. Time and time again, we see the government exempt companies that are making record profits while their emissions go up and up.

This summer, we heard from concerned environmental groups that the government was going to once again walk back its promises when it comes to delivering a strong, sustainable finance framework. We were appalled but not surprised to find out the government was looking at including fossil fuels in its sustainable labelling system. This means the government believes that some fossil fuels are considered sustainable. This is completely unacceptable. It is greenwashing the actions of the big banks, it is greenwashing fossil fuel companies and it begs the question of why the Liberals are doing this greenwashing dirty work for them.

Canadian banks are already among the worst in the world when it comes to funding the oil and gas industry. The oil and gas sector is now the only sector in the Canadian economy that is increasing its emissions, not reducing them. For that, it is being rewarded. Recently, the Competition Bureau and Ad Standards have been investigating greenwashing in advertisements about the claims made by big oil on clean gas. If the Liberals include fossil fuel subsidies in the taxonomy, they will join oil and gas lobbyists in misleading Canadians. Also, reports show that when emissions are included from production, processing, pipeline transportation, liquefaction, shipping, and regasification of gas, exporting it will not reduce global climate emissions, as the oil and gas industry claims, but will make global warming worse over the next three decades.

The Conservatives and big oil love to point to China's coal use as the reason we need to continue expanding oil and gas in Canada, yet the amount of wind and solar power under construction in China is now nearly twice as much as the rest of the world combined. According to recent reports, new research shows that fossil fuels could displace this renewable energy.

The Liberals are listening to the misinformation spread by Conservatives and oil and gas lobbyists. Maybe this should not surprise me, because the government has met with oil and gas lobbyists over 1,200 times. That is nearly five times a day. Our planet is burning, and the Liberals continue to listen to oil and gas lobbyists instead of climate experts.

Environmental experts are saying they would rather see no sustainable finance taxonomy than one that includes fossil fuels. Greenwashing the sustainable financing labelling system is the wrong choice. Can the member confirm whether the government will be once again caving to the interests of big banks and big oil and gas? Will it make loopholes that allow fossil fuels to be labelled as sustainable?

Financial InstitutionsAdjournment Proceedings

8:10 p.m.

Milton Ontario

Liberal

Adam van Koeverden LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Sport and Physical Activity

Madam Speaker, as I have said many times before in the House after debating with the hon. member of Parliament for Victoria, and generally, with any non-Conservative member who would like to talk about fighting climate change, lowering our emissions and reducing our reliance on fossil fuels, it is heartening to be able to discuss how we fight climate change, not if we fight climate change.

It does seem, however, that the Conservatives are hell-bent on increasing our emissions. Indeed, the failed former leader of the Conservative Party, the member of Parliament for Regina—Qu'Appelle, seems to believe that Canadian emissions are actually superior, that they are better than emissions from other places. He often says a CO2 molecule does not have a passport. That is true. That means one emitted in India, Canada or China is relatively equivalent in that manner, so we need to be focusing on global solutions as well as our carbon footprint here at home.

We have proven measures to lower our carbon emissions here in Canada. It is true that Canada is about 0.5% of the global population, with a little bit more than 40 or 41 million people. Out of 8 billion, that is 0.5%. However, we are responsible for more than 1.5% of global emissions. That means, through basic math, that a Canadian is unfortunately responsible for three times the global average. That is because we are a developed country, and we are an oil and gas-producing country. We are rather wealthy. We heat our homes in the winter, and we cool them down in the summer. We know that all of those activities need to change over time. That is why our government is bringing forward a taxonomy for the sustainable finance of the future.

Back in 2021, Canada signed the Glasgow statement, where we committed to end new and direct support for the international unabated fossil fuel energy sector. We are also the first oil and gas producing nation in the world to put a cap on oil and gas emissions. We are taking huge steps forward on conservation, committing to 30% of Canada's land mass to be conserved by 2030. Just recently, a little bit more than a year ago, in July 2023, the Government of Canada released the inefficient fossil fuel subsidy assessment framework and its guidelines, which will ensure that all federal government subsidies provided to any fossil fuel industry align with the climate agenda.

Oftentimes, the NDP likes to paint all fossil fuel subsidies or any kind of support for the energy sector with the same brush. That is not just simplistic, but it is also the wrong approach. Some oil and gas subsidies go to clean up orphan wells, and others make sure that we have energy, sovereignty and solutions in the far north. Those things are important. However, we are also at the same time taking concrete action to eliminate those inefficient fossil fuel subsidies. That is not all we are doing. Over the past couple of years, the government has worked to transform Canada's financial sector and provide the enabling conditions to align private capital with our sustainability goals.

In budget 2022, the federal government committed to moving towards mandatory reporting of climate-related finance risks across the Canadian economy. As the member knows, because we sit at the environment committee together as colleagues, this includes new requirements for federally regulated financial institutions to disclose climate-related risks. Our government believes that big polluters should be held responsible for their actions. In line with that commitment, effective fiscal year-end 2024, the Office of the Superintendent of Financial Institutions, which is OSFI, published its guidelines for the management of those climate-related risks. I am happy to say that, in a very short time, we are going to have what is called a taxonomy, so a list, a glossary of terms for the sustainable finance of the future.

Financial InstitutionsAdjournment Proceedings

8:10 p.m.

NDP

Laurel Collins NDP Victoria, BC

Madam Speaker, I find it incredibly disappointing that today, when I asked the minister a valid question about his government's plan to label fossil fuels as sustainable, his only response was misinformation about the NDP and carbon pricing. Two weeks ago, when I asked him if the Liberals would put a hard cap on emissions and make the biggest polluters pay what they owe, he responded with misinformation about the NDP and carbon pricing. Yes, the Conservatives are misleading Canadians on the carbon tax and the rebates, but the Liberals have also pitted communities and whole regions against each other and allowed loopholes that let the biggest polluters off the hook.

New Democrats have repeatedly said that there should be a price on pollution, but we are critical of how the Liberals are doing it. We think the biggest polluters, the oil and gas companies who are raking in record profits, should be paying more, but the Liberals' fetishization of the consumer carbon price seems designed to distract from their capitulation to big oil. It shows that Liberals—

Financial InstitutionsAdjournment Proceedings

8:15 p.m.

Liberal

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Liberal Alexandra Mendes

The hon. parliamentary secretary.

Financial InstitutionsAdjournment Proceedings

8:15 p.m.

Liberal

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

Madam Speaker, I was going to avoid talking about the NDP's recent backtracking on climate action. It is 100% backtracking when one says that carbon pricing is not as important as another party wants to say it is. Our emissions are down 8% since 2005. We are making remarkable progress and that is due in part to carbon pricing. The speaker opposite just said that we are not doing anything on the industrial side, which is so false. We have an industrial price on pollution. We are managing to lower our emissions.

Financial InstitutionsAdjournment Proceedings

8:15 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Financial InstitutionsAdjournment Proceedings

8:15 p.m.

Liberal

Adam van Koeverden Liberal Milton, ON

Madam Speaker, as I speak, I am being heckled from the other side.

We are doing a lot on climate. The NDP want to claim that its platform was somehow stronger. That was refuted by all of the environmental non-government organizations and research groups. It does not have a climate plan. When the going got tough, the Conservatives turned their tail and did exactly what the Conservatives said the NDP should do, and they turned their back on evidence-based, science-based solutions—