House of Commons Hansard #364 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was documents.

Topics

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

2:05 p.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Mr. Speaker, it is the same old refrain with the Conservatives. According to them, they are good fiscal stewards and transparent people. I think that they are forgetting some of what happened in the past, but I will be very pleased to remind them of it today.

When the Conservatives were in office under the Harper regime, they, too, had to deal with a question of privilege. Do members know how long that lasted? It was not just three weeks. Parliament was paralyzed for five months because the Harper government refused to hand over documents on the treatment of Afghan detainees. In the end, the matter was sent to committee. There was an agreement. They managed to cover up some of the information here and there. Today, we are once again hearing them trot out the Conservative rhetoric about transparency and sound management of public funds.

I would remind my colleague from Chilliwack—Hope that, when Tony Clement was a minister, he funnelled $50 million to his own riding. Does my colleague think that is good governance? Does he think that shows respect for our institutions and democracy? I would like my colleague to explain to me today how Quebeckers can trust the Conservative Party, which hopes to govern, when it has such a disastrous track record.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

2:05 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Hope, BC

Mr. Speaker, that was difficult to follow.

I do not know how many members the Bloc had at that time. When Stephen Harper was prime minister, the Bloc Québécois was down to, I think, four seats. The Bloc only seems to thrive in this country when there are Liberal governments. Separatism and the Bloc seem to do much better when there is a Liberal government. I do not think it even had party status at that time.

However, there was an election fought on that. The Liberal Party, in its wisdom under Michael Ignatieff, brought down the Stephen Harper minority government over the issue that the hon. member talked about. I believe that was when we had a strong, stable, national Conservative majority government under Stephen Harper.

If he wants, like I do, to have a carbon tax election right now, we would welcome his support to defeat the corrupt government and go to the polls to let Canadians have their say.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

2:05 p.m.

Conservative

John Brassard Conservative Barrie—Innisfil, ON

Mr. Speaker, here is the reality. The RCMP is actually criminally investigating SDTC. It has received some documents, but we also know the justice department has 11,000 documents that have not been submitted to this point, as per the parliamentary order, to the law clerk.

Does the hon. member think the RCMP should have all of the documentation that was ordered by Parliament, so the RCMP can do a proper and thorough investigation into just how deep this rot, this corruption, goes within the government?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

2:05 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Hope, BC

Mr. Speaker, we know the rot goes all the way to the top of the government. Liberal ministers were responsible for appointing Liberals to key positions that put them in conflicts of interest. The RCMP absolutely should be given these documents. The House of Commons has demanded that the RCMP be given the documents and that should be the end of the story.

We have the right and the privilege to demand that those documents be produced. We have exercised that right. If the government refuses to recognize that right, we will continue to stand up for our democratic institutions here in the House of Commons.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

2:05 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, today we have an opportunity in this Parliament to reflect on the different priorities of the parties. In the Conservative Party, our priorities are clear. We want to axe the tax, build the homes, fix the budget and stop the crime. The Conservatives will axe the carbon tax everywhere for good. The carbon tax is a failed NDP-Liberal policy that has driven up the cost of everything. It has failed to achieve the alleged environmental objectives that are behind it. It has made gas more expensive and emissions have continued to go up under the government. Many Canadians are suffering as the price of basic things Canadians buy goes up as a result of the carbon tax. That is why the Conservatives, rather than tinkering around the edges, would axe the tax everywhere for everyone and for good. We want a carbon tax election now so we can deliver the removal of the carbon tax for Canadians.

The Conservatives will axe the tax and build the homes. We announced a critical new policy this week that would make a significant difference by making homes available for Canadians. The Liberals' own advisers have praised the Conservative plan for building homes. In the last nine years, the Liberals have failed to build homes, and rent has doubled under the Liberals. As we have heard many times, costs are up, crime is up and rent is up, and that is why time is up for the government. Canadians want a new government that will deliver on a real plan to build homes.

The Conservatives will require municipalities to meet critical targets for the construction of new homes. Municipalities that meet those targets will be rewarded; municipalities that do not meet those targets will lose federal funding. This is the kind of real leadership for results that the Conservatives believe in. The Liberals signal that they care without actually doing the hard work of achieving results, and we can measure the outcomes of their policies in the results.

The Liberals think it is all about how much money is spent. They profess that we should look at how much money they have spent on this and that. The real test of a housing policy is not how much money the government has spent; it is how much money Canadians have to spend every month when they pay their rent. A housing policy is working if Canadians are not being forced to pay more and more every month for rent, yet the Liberals want to trumpet their own spending rather than look at the realities of the costs for Canadians.

Costs are up, crime is up and, for the government, time is up. Canadians want a government that is going to build the homes. Therefore, the Conservatives' priorities are to axe the tax, build the homes, fix the budget and stop the crime.

How would we fix the budget? It is very simple. We would bring in a dollar-for-dollar rule requiring that when there is a new dollar of government spending, that dollar is identified as coming from somewhere. We cannot continually increase spending without ever reviewing and looking at where those dollars are going to come from. The Liberals have been living in an economic fantasy world for the last nine years, where they can spend and spend without considering where the money is going to come from. Canadians know that is not the reality. That is not the reality that small businesses face in this country, nor the reality that families face in this country. Eventually, that reality catches up with government as well.

In nine years of the NDP-Liberal government, the national debt has more than doubled. Debt servicing costs have soared. Canadians are paying more because of the carbon tax, but also because of the inflation tax. The increase in government spending is driving up the costs that Canadians face by reducing the value of the dollar in their pocket. If we have more dollars chasing the same number of goods, that is not going to make anyone richer. It simply means that everything is going to cost more in dollar terms.

We need a government that is going to replace this incontinent fiscal policy with a focused, disciplined fiscal policy that includes a dollar-for-dollar rule. If we are going to propose a new spending program, we have to be able to explain where the money is coming from. The Liberals have run massive deficits in every single year they have been in power. In reality, this is not what Canadians have traditionally associated with the Liberal Party. It is more of a radical NDP fiscal policy. This is an NDP-Liberal government we see. As we can identify in today's discussion on the corruption motion, effectively, with this reconstituted coalition between the NDP and the Liberals, we have the worst of both worlds.

We have NDP fiscal and economic policy and we have Liberal ethics. That is what we have with the NDP-Liberal government, the radical far-left NDP approach to the economy applied to government, along with the Liberals' disregard for our institutions, for the rule of law and for proper accountability in government. This, again, is why Canadians are looking at the situation and they are saying that time is up for the NDP-Liberal government. Time is up for the Liberal government. We need a new government with new priorities, priorities that involve axing the tax, building the homes, fixing the budget and stopping the crime.

On the issue of crime, it is very clear in the last nine years that, under the NDP-Liberals, violent crime has gotten so much worse in Canada. The government should be judged not by their words but by the results. It will be judged by the results of what it has done. Costs are up for Canadians and crime is up dramatically because of policy choices that they made.

Liberals would always like to present themselves as victims of circumstance. They would like people to believe that as soon as they got into office, things started going wrong but that it had nothing to do with them. That is the story that they would like to tell, yet we can see, with criminal justice policy in particular, that they made specific decisions around sentencing and enforcement that changed the rates of violent crime in this country.

Conservatives would restore common sense when it comes to criminal justice policy. That includes jail, not bail, for repeat violent offenders. That includes support for treatment and recovery for those who are struggling with addictions. Liberals have pursued a failed drug policy, which is paying the pushers of drugs. Their policy of safe supply is leading more money to go back into the pockets of bad corporate actors like Purdue Pharma that make dangerous drugs that are then given away for free, at taxpayers' expense, to those who are struggling.

Conservatives would sue those bad corporate actors like Purdue Pharma and McKinsey that are responsible for the opioid crisis. We would put that money into treatment and recovery. This emphasis on treatment and recovery would help address the challenges we face with crime.

For those who commit violent offences in this country, they are going to face serious consequences under a common-sense Conservative government. Our priorities are to axe the tax, build the homes, fix the budget and stop the crime, to restore the country that we know and love, to bring it home, to bring home the country that Canadians remember.

It was not this way before Justin Trudeau. Pardon me. It was not this way before the Prime Minister

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

2:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

The hon. parliamentary secretary is rising on a point of order.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

2:15 p.m.

Liberal

Sherry Romanado Liberal Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, QC

Mr. Speaker, I just want to remind the member opposite. I know he really likes him, but he is not allowed to use his name.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

2:15 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

I know the hon. member will retract that and continue on.

The hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

2:15 p.m.

Conservative

Garnett Genuis Conservative Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB

Mr. Speaker, the rules of the House do not allow us to say the name of a current member of Parliament, but they do allow us to say the name of a former member of Parliament, so I think I was getting a bit ahead of myself by using his name.

The time will come. The time is soon coming. They cannot put it off forever. As one former British parliamentarian said, “even these turkeys won’t be able to prevent Christmas.” We will have an election, and when we have an election, Canadians will have an opportunity to be heard on the record of the failing government.

I was referring to a quotation saying that even turkeys cannot keep Christmas from coming forever. Canadians will have affordable food, including turkey, once again. These are our priorities on this side of the House.

What are the priorities of the Liberals across the way? They are willing to paralyze Parliament to protect themselves from the proper investigation of their corruption scandals. Conservatives have put forward a motion, a motion that was adopted because all opposition parties voted in favour of it, to order the production of certain documents regarding the government's SDTC scandal.

Let us just break down what this scandal is. For Canadians who are less familiar, what is the green slush fund scandal? This is hard to believe, but we had a group of insiders, appointed by the Liberal government to a panel, and they were responsible for handing out money, taxpayers' money, to various companies. They decided to give those funds to their own companies.

It is like a group of us were sitting around the table saying, “We will first vote some money for my company, then we will vote some money for your company, and then we will vote some money for your company.” In some cases, the person, while their company was being voted on, would step out of the room, but in other cases, they did not. We have instances of people actually voting in favour of giving money to the company they owned. They said they were in favour of that.

This is the essence of the SDTC scandal. There was $400 million. We had people sitting around a table, who were appointed by these Liberals, charged with handing this money out, and deciding to give that money to themselves. It is outrageous.

In times past, this would have been the major decisive story. Today, there are so many scandals, it is almost like it is a strategy. These Liberals thought, if they were to be the cause of as many scandals as possible, maybe there could be dispersed attention on them. With this alone, this green slush fund scandal, it is incredible what these Liberals and their elite insider friends thought they could get away with.

It is part of a culture of corruption that we have seen under the NDP-Liberal government. The members think they can get away with anything. Having tried to buy off the media with subsidies, they think they can do anything and not be held accountable for it. However, Canadians are waking up. Canadians are hearing about these stories, and I know Canadians are demanding accountability and change because cost is up, crime is up, corruption is up and time is up. It is time for an election to throw out these carbon tax, conflict of interest Liberals and replace them with a common-sense Conservative government.

Let us talk about a few of the other scandals that are going on. I want to share a few comments about the indigenous procurement problem, the Liberals' indigenous procurement scandal. This really is one of the biggest scandals we have seen yet from a Liberal government. We have a situation with government contracting and the policy in place that says there is a 5% target, meaning that 5% of government contracts should be going to indigenous companies.

The problem is that these Liberals have allowed many non-indigenous companies to take advantage of that program by pretending to be indigenous. We have various arrangements that have allowed this to happen. We have some some who are outright pretending to be indigenous. We also have instances of abuse of a joint venture, and then we have instances of shell companies. An example of abuse of a joint venture might be a company with 200 people in it, which is a fully non-indigenous company, and then that company being in a joint venture with a company that has one person, and that company is considered an indigenous company.

Therefore there is a joint venture in which the vast majority of the work, the benefit and the profit are going to the obviously much larger partner, but it is entering into a so-called joint venture, which allows it to officially be labelled as part of an indigenous joint venture even though virtually all of the work and the benefit are going to the non-indigenous part of the partnership. This is the abuse of joint ventures that we are seeing, which effectively allows non-indigenous companies to take advantage of the program.

There was an instance reported in The Globe and Mail with a private company called the Canadian Health Care Agency, which was in a so-called joint venture with an individual who was actually one of its employees, so the person was an employee at the larger company. By all indications, it was not a real joint venture. The employee was being taken advantage of by being identified as having a separate company in a joint venture, and that allowed the non-indigenous company to take contracts that were supposed to be part of the 5%.

There is also the use of shell companies. An example of a shell company would be having one company that has been identified as indigenous that is getting government contracts then subcontracting the work to non-indigenous companies. There is a rule that is supposed to prevent this; a subcontracting rule requires that one-third of the subcontract be to indigenous companies if it has been received as part of the indigenous procurement set-aside.

However, we have asked for documents on the verification of the subcontracting rule, and it is pretty clear that nobody is actually enforcing it. There is a bit of the Spider-Man meme going on, with the Minister of Public Services and Procurement and the Minister of Indigenous Services saying, respectively, “I am not doing this; this is indigenous” and “I am not doing this; this is procurement”. Then nobody seems to be enforcing the subcontracting rules.

There are various structures: abuse of joint ventures, outright pretending and shell companies. As a result, the AFN appeared before the government operations committee on the Liberals' indigenous procurement scandal, and AFN representatives testified that most of the contracts within the indigenous procurement set-aside are actually going to shell companies. Therefore, before Liberals get up and say that it is just Conservatives saying this, I point out that indigenous leaders said it. It is not just the AFN; leaders from first nations, Inuit and Métis communities have repeatedly highlighted how non-indigenous, elite insiders are taking advantage of the program that is supposed to benefit indigenous businesses.

It is a crying shame, but it is typical of the Liberals. They did not care about the results for indigenous peoples; they cared only about being able to look like they were checking a box to say that they cared. They want to say to look at the number, at the target and at the box they are checking, but in reality, when the government operations committee started going into it and started inviting indigenous leaders to speak before the committee, we found that according to the testimony, most of what the Liberals are saying is part of the 5% target is not going to indigenous communities at all. It isn't even going to indigenous businesses.

In fact, when we challenged the Minister of Indigenous Services on the issue the first time, in March, she said that the purpose of the program is just to identify indigeneity. It is not about economic development, effectively. She completely changed her tune six months later. However, when the program is allowing shell companies, elite non-indigenous insiders, abusive joint ventures and outright pretenders to take advantage of the program, clearly the benefits are not going back to indigenous peoples, and the Liberals do not seem to care. They want to trumpet the box-checking exercise rather than answer clear, necessary questions about the impacts of the program on communities.

I speak to indigenous leaders across the country, and they talk very much about the importance of economic development, of autonomy, of giving back control over resources and over opportunities and of putting in place policies that allow indigenous communities to survive and prosper. One key piece of feedback we have heard is that there are various policies in procurement that actually make it very difficult for new entrants, including indigenous- and minority-owned businesses, to get contracts. The Liberals have so constrained the procurement system as to protect the privileged access of elite insiders.

We saw this with the arrive scam scandal as well. According to the Auditor General's report, we had an instance where GC Strategies sat down with people inside government to discuss the terms of the contract. According to the procurement ombudsman, there were overly restrictive requirements that said, for instance, one could only bid on a federal government contract if one had done a certain number of federal government contracts before. How does that make any sense? If one has a business that can do the work, maybe a new business or a business based somewhere else in the country, started by someone who does not have the same insider access or history with the federal government but can actually do the work, or maybe it has done work with other levels of government and has been successful in procurement processes across the country, but wants to bid on a project here in Ottawa, the government could say that it is sorry, but because it has not done business with the federal government it is out. It is an entrenched protection of privilege for elite Liberal-connected insiders.

These are huge amounts of money we are talking about. In the Liberals' indigenous procurement scandal there are a number of players. Dalian Enterprises received over $100 million in contracts. The Canadian Health Care Agency received over $100 million in contracts. A majority of those who got contracts under this set-aside were shell companies according to the AFN. We are talking about massive amounts of money that the Liberals are finding ways to funnel to their friends and to other well-connected insiders.

That is the Liberals' priority, getting money to elite insider NDP-Liberal friends. Our priorities are restoring common sense, bringing it home, axing the tax, building the homes, fixing the budget and stopping the crime. When the carbon tax election comes, Canadians will be able to decide between our priorities and theirs.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

November 1st, 2024 / 2:25 p.m.

Liberal

Joël Lightbound Liberal Louis-Hébert, QC

Mr. Speaker, it was fascinating to watch the member opposite, who is a smart guy, drowning in a sea of pointless slogans for the better part of his speech. However, he did say something that I found interesting. He said that the Conservatives were going to fix the budget by cutting one dollar for every new dollar in spending.

His leader was in my riding saying that he would finance a third link in Quebec City that is estimated to cost $10 billion. Usually, the federal government is up for 40%, which is $4 billion at least. That is what the Canadian dental care program costs per year for a million Canadians. How are the Conservatives going to finance these promises that he is making, which make absolutely no sense?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

2:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Deputy Speaker Conservative Chris d'Entremont

Having reached the time of expiry for today's debate, the House will resume consideration of the privilege motion at 11 a.m. on Monday, November 4.

Pursuant to Standing Order 94, I wish to inform hon. members that Private Members' Business will be suspended on that day.

It being 2:30 p.m., the House stands adjourned until next Monday at 11 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 2:30 p.m.)