Debates of Nov. 19th, 2024

Correctional Service of Canada

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Madam Speaker, on November 8, I raised a question regarding newly unredacted briefing notes. To be fair, they are still only partially unredacted. There is plenty still hidden, but they are less redacted than previously. They are notes provided by Correctional Service Canada officials to the minister from 2015 to 2019. They were originally sought in 2019.

The government managed to delay their release by fighting the efforts to have them made public by a very persistent journalist, but after five years, we have the notes. They indicate, which is the point I made on November 8, that Correctional Service Canada recommended against reopening the Joyceville and Collins Bay prison farms, which had been shut in 2010 because the labour done by inmates on the farms would not reduce recidivism but would waste resources, meaning they would cost a great deal of money, and would lead to worse public safety outcomes than a number of alternatives, which were available and recommended by Correctional Service Canada.

I asked that question, and the response of the parliamentary secretary was to say the community supports prison farms. In all fairness, I cannot figure out who he was talking about when he says the community supports the continuation of the prison farms. There is a separate issue with regard to the potential opening of the abattoir that the Liberals shut down about a year or year and a half ago that I think does have community support. There are some practical issues making it difficult for that to go forward. The facility is probably not capable of being rehabilitated, but there is support for that because beef farmers have a serious problem finding an outlet for their beef. Slaughter facilities are in very limited supply in eastern Ontario. That is not the prison farm we are talking about.

The prison farm is a mixed goat and cow dairy operation involving a multi-million dollar, largely robotic cow milking system for which the government has not acquired milk quota yet, which will cost further millions of dollars. It will be manned and observed by people from McGill University. None of this has anything to do with community support, so I wanted to get that on the record.

The assertion here is that everything the government does, so it claims, is evidence-based and science-based, that it looks to the experts and takes their word on things, but the fact is there is a very different story. The documents reveal that CSC indicated in its briefing notes, “Adapting an employment program that targets the care of farm animals such as cows, would be highly unlikely to produce significant recidivism reduction, even if the risk-need-responsivity principles of effective corrections can be applied to this type of intervention.” There is a lot of emphasis on people getting more humane skills. It specifically mentions that pet therapies are unlikely to produce results and have never been done with farm animals before.

Based on that, I ask why the government is not listening to the advice that has been given over and over again by Correctional Service Canada not to reopen the prison farms.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister for Women and Gender Equality and Youth]

Madam Speaker, I am thankful for the opportunity to speak to the many benefits provided by Correctional Service Canada's penitentiary agricultural program. The government remains committed to the implementation of evidence-based policy informed by experts that contributes to offender rehabilitation and safer communities across Canada.

In response to the question from the member for Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, I will say that the Government of Canada consulted widely about whether to reinstate the penitentiary agriculture program. In 2016, Correctional Service launched a feasibility study, which included community consultations, an online forum and a public town hall that featured the participation of more than 6,000 people. The majority of participants in both consultations said that they wished to bring back the penitentiary agriculture program, noting the positive impact on employment opportunities for offenders.

Since 2017, Correctional Service has engaged a number of internal and external stakeholders, including community organizations, to identify opportunities in the penitentiary farm program to represent a variety of types of agriculture activities during the offender employment training, and this includes the expertise of the prison farm advisory panel. The panel works to bring together agricultural and farming leaders to provide informed recommendations and program ideas on how we can better protect our communities through offender rehabilitation.

The government will continue to work to protect the safety and security of our employees while also promoting the safety and security of our communities through evidence-backed rehabilitative programming.

I am proud to highlight that through the programming provided at the farms, Correctional Service is recognized as an international leader in the development and delivery of correctional interventions. Since their reopening in 2018, the penitentiary agriculture programs at Joyceville and Collins Bay institutions have provided on-the-job vocational training that relates to the agricultural industry, allowing federal inmates to gain employment skills that are also transferable to other industries.

Inmates at the farms perform activities like building and renovating necessary infrastructure and working to repair and rebuild farmland, in addition to crop production. These activities mirror the activities that take place in agricultural lands across the country that employ tens of thousands of people at any given time. One of the ways that Correctional Service works to provide safer communities from coast to coast to coast is through the provision of these employment programs, which build essential skills that will assist offenders in finding employment in the community after their release.

There have been several research documents dating back almost a decade that have noted a connection between employment and positive reintegration results. For example, inmates who participate in the CORCAN employment program while incarcerated are more likely to get a job in the community. Offenders under community supervision who find employment in the community have reduced recidivism rates. Inmates who participate in the CORCAN employment program while incarcerated are more likely to be granted parole.

Furthermore, all revenues generated through the penitentiary agriculture programs are reinvested in the offender employment and employability program, allowing for further programming to aid in offender reintegration.

I would like to thank the members of the advisory panel who have helped to contribute to the success of the farms.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Madam Speaker, the hon. member talked about the success of CORCAN programs. Well, then, if she thinks they are so great, she should listen to what CORCAN said in the briefing note that the government kept hidden for five years:

Based on the empirical evidence accumulated by CSC, Public Safety, and international research, prison industrial farming, even if accommodated to include elements of “pet therapy”, are unlikely to lower criminality and are also likely to have negative economic bottom lines. The resources allocated to these types of programs would be better directed towards correctional programs, education programs and social programs that have proven positive returns on public safety and government investments.

That is the advice, which is to focus on re-education and employment that produces results. The prison farm program and the giant cattle barn it has built is not the way to do that.

[Lisa Hepfner, Liberal, Hamilton Mountain, ON]

Madam Speaker, Correctional Service Canada will continue to implement evidence-based policies and programming to keep Canadian communities safe, all while providing Canadians good value for money.

Programs, such as the penitentiary agriculture program, help offenders become productive, law-abiding citizens and skilled workers when they return to the community. Research dating back to 2014 has noted a direct connection between employment and positive reintegration results upon release. In addition to building safer communities by working to provide offenders with skill sets to find employment, community programming, such as the penitentiary agriculture program, works to save Canadians money. Offenders are better able to financially support themselves when they can find employment upon release to the community and they are required to pay taxes.

Correctional Service Canada will continue to work with our various partners to strengthen our farming operations, which promote offender rehabilitation and safer communities for all Canadians to enjoy.

Oil and Gas Industry

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am back tonight to continue calling on the Liberal government to get serious about the climate crisis, specifically with respect to investing in public transit, which it could do by taxing the excess profits being made by the oil and gas industry.

This is particularly timely because this very specific call could be included in the government's fall economic statement, whenever that comes out over the coming weeks. It is one of the reasons why this is one of six calls I have been making to the Minister of Finance over the last number of weeks. The stakes, in my view, really could not be higher when it comes to the climate crisis that we are in.

First of all, we need to recognize that we are the only G7 country whose emissions have gone up since 1990. This is at a time when we have already reached about 1.3°C of warming compared to pre-industrial times.

Back at the 2015 Paris climate conference, world leaders all agreed we would do everything possible to limit the increase to 1.5°C. They did this because climate scientists have told us, if we cross that threshold, it will lead to “leading to devastating and potentially irreversible consequences for several vital Earth systems that sustain a hospitable planet.”

What are we on track for? As of now, current pledges by countries around the world put us somewhere between 2.6°C and 3.1°C in global average temperature rise. We must do so much more as a country to do our fair share, to lead and to demonstrate what is possible when it comes to acting on the climate crisis.

At the same time, when it comes to proven climate solutions, such as public transit, there will be no new funding until 2026. That is after the next election. There is funding available, but operations, like a mechanic who needs to fix a bus, is not eligible. The funding being provided is pretty much the status quo.

However, at the same time, for proven climate distractions, such as carbon capture and storage, we are rolling out the red carpet. The government is giving another tax credit in Bill C-59, which is between $7 billion to $16 billion, and most of the Canada growth fund, so there is $15 billion there. If someone wants to expand the pipeline, there is $34 billion for them to do that.

Meanwhile, the oil and gas industry is making out like bandits. In 2022 alone, the five biggest oil and gas companies operating in this country made $38 billion, and that is after the $29 billion in dividends and share repurchases. They are doing it by gouging Canadians at the pumps to the tune of 18¢ a litre.

The solution should be pretty obvious. Number one, stop the subsidies. Number two, tax these excess profits by taking the Canada recovery dividend that was applied to banks and life insurance companies in the pandemic and apply it to oil and gas. Even for just 15% of profits over a billion, that would generate $4.2 billion a year, all of which could be put into proven solutions, such as public transit. They could add more funds, start the fund sooner or direct it towards operating funds. My question to the hon. parliamentary secretary is this: Will they do it?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Sport and Physical Activity]

Madam Speaker, it is nice to be at adjournment debate with my friend and colleague from the Green Party and Kitchener Centre to discuss how we fight climate change, not just if we fight climate change, which is the conversation we always have with the Conservative Party because it wants to ignore the impacts of climate change.

I will say I was a bit struck by the fact that my friend did not mention that Canada is the first oil- and gas-producing nation to introduce an emissions cap on the oil and gas sector. This is an essential next step, yet we have Premier Danielle Smith spending $7 million of public money that could have been invested to hire new nurses and teachers in Alberta. Instead, she is actually doing equalization. She has hired a Quebec company to drive trucks around Ottawa with big screens on them that say, “scrap the cap”. Well, we will not scrap the cap because we believe in climate action. We believe that oil and gas companies, while essential, because we need energy and the world needs Canadian energy, should not be entitled to unlimited pollution. That is why we have stepped up to say they need to invest some of their $66 billion in profits last year into some climate action, efficiencies and making sure we do not have emissions-intensive barrels of oil.

I would like to congratulate the region of Waterloo and the residents of Kitchener Centre because they have been the recipients of an extraordinary amount of public transit funding over the last couple of years. That is due in part to amazing advocacy from my friends and colleagues here from that region.

I have a couple of quotes to read. The first is from Mayor Berry Vrbanovic, who I have met a couple of times and is a very nice guy. He says that there is now a stable source of funds to help pay for the extension of a light-rail system from Kitchener into Cambridge, and that it is absolutely transformative. He is referring to the $30-billion investment that we recently made in public transit. It is the largest investment the federal government has ever made in public transit in Canada. That is extraordinary. However, I also have to congratulate Kitchener on being early winners in the public transit game. My colleague said there was no funding available until 2026. That is not true. Kitchener was recently awarded over $187 million through a $180-billion fund for public transit, green infrastructure and more social activities and infrastructure in various communities.

We are funding the public transit system the residents of Kitchener Centre need and use regularly. As my colleague said, that reduces greenhouse gas emissions and reduces people's reliance on cars. That is a good thing. People will say, “but buses run on diesel.” Sometimes they do, but not the 11 fully electric vehicles the federal government purchased for the Grand River transit, GRT, system with $6 million through our public transit infrastructure stream. The Waterloo region is extremely well served by our plethora of public transit funding. The website of the region of Waterloo says that GRT is in “collaboration with the cities of Cambridge, Kitchener, and Waterloo... thanks to $5 million total in federal and municipal project funding through the Public Transit Infrastructure Fund.” It is deploying 11 fully electric buses, which is fun. It is great.

I am an electric vehicle enthusiast; I love seeing vehicles on the road that do not need to rely on fossil fuels. “Investing in modern and integrated networks of multi-use trails and pathways that connect to public transit are essential to building healthy and sustainable communities for all Canadians to live, work, and raise their families”. That is from one of my favourite members of Parliament, the hon. member of Parliament for Waterloo. We have worked together a lot. I want to congratulate her on the funding for her region and thank her for her advocacy.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, the parliamentary secretary is quite right that this government has made investments. In fact, I was at the announcement with respect to the electric buses he mentioned. What he needs to also realize is that advocates have been trying to tell this government that if it does not ensure that the funding it proposed also funds operations, we are not going to see the advances we need to increase service and reduce fares because the permanent public transit fund does not start until 2026. From Environmental Defence, for example, “A lack of public transit operating funding means buses don't show up on time, riders spend more time waiting, and fares continue to climb faster than inflation.”

Will the parliamentary secretary recognize what transit advocates have been calling for to ensure that we roll out the red carpet the way his government has already for carbon capture, where they have given tens of billions for climate distractions, and put that towards the public transit we need?

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Madam Speaker, these are really important issues, but I honestly think that my friend and colleague is conflating two issues. We are taking strong climate action, and we are holding big oil and gas companies to account. All of those big profits that I mentioned, and which he referenced as well, are taxed; they are funding these programs. It is important to recognize that we do travel on modes of transportation that require fossil fuels and that the world needs Canada's energy. We have to make sure that it is green, clean, innovative and efficient. That is what we are doing with the first-ever cap on emissions. Again, I am surprised that my friend and colleague refuses to acknowledge that the government has taken really strong action.

We talked earlier today. I mentioned to him that the city of Burlington has made transit free for seniors, kids under 12 and teens. Burlington is a small part of the riding of Milton, not geographically, but from the perspective of population. It has done that with help from our government, with support for these initiatives. I know that the region of Waterloo has that same support. I congratulate those in the region, and I thank the member for his advocacy again.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, Carol Hughes]

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly, the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 2 p.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 6:32 p.m.)