House of Commons Hansard #372 of the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was documents.

Topics

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This summary is computer-generated. Usually it’s accurate, but every now and then it’ll contain inaccuracies or total fabrications.

Statements by Members

Question Period

The Conservatives criticize the Prime Minister's record on housing costs, debt, and food bank use, blaming him as the "bad actor" behind a broken immigration system and housing shortage. They attack the inflationary carbon tax, Canada's poor climate performance, and the hidden deficit. They also raise concerns about the Paul Bernardo case and the former minister's double identity scandal, demanding a carbon tax election.
The Liberals defend their investments in housing, dental care, and child care, contrasting them with Conservative calls for cuts and austerity. They criticize the Conservative leader for muzzling his MPs, obstructing Parliament, and refusing security briefings. They also highlight adjusting immigration numbers, protecting supply management, and the Canada carbon rebate as an affordability measure.
The Bloc criticizes the Senate's obstruction of supply management Bill C-282. They highlight Quebec deploying the SQ to patrol borders due to federal inaction on potential migration waves from the US, and address House decorum.
The NDP focus on lowering costs for families by cutting the GST on essentials like cell/Internet bills, addressing the climate crisis and lack of clean water in Nunavut, and defending freedom of expression regarding wearing pins.
The Greens call for a citizens' assembly on electoral reform to address the Prime Minister's broken promise.

Petitions

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs Members debate a privilege motion concerning the government's refusal to provide unredacted documents on Sustainable Development Technology Canada (SDTC) to the RCMP, as ordered by the House. Conservatives call the fund a "Liberal billion-dollar green slush fund" and allege conflicts of interest, stating the refusal paralyzes Parliament. Liberals and NDP acknowledge transparency is needed but question sending documents directly to police, while accusing Conservatives of obstruction and filibustering debate on other issues like housing and inflation. Past scandals of various parties are also raised. 20500 words, 2 hours.

Refusal of Witness to Respond to Questions from Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security Members debate a witness's refusal to answer a committee studying foreign interference, citing US charges and self-incrimination risk. Kevin Lamoureux proposes referring the matter to PROC for study before the Speaker rules on privilege. 600 words.

Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities Members debate the financialization of housing and the ongoing crisis, including rising homelessness and delayed federal funds. Bloc members express frustration with procedural delays preventing legislative work. Liberals defend their housing plan, while Conservatives propose removing GST and linking municipal funding to housing targets. NDP members criticize both parties for abandoning social housing. 11200 words, 1 hour.

Adjournment Debates

Indigenous procurement scandal Garnett Genuis accuses the Liberals of ignoring rampant abuse in the indigenous procurement program, including a former minister's company pretending to be Indigenous. Jenica Atwin defends the program's importance for economic reconciliation, citing increased Indigenous participation and efforts to address concerns of supplier integrity.
Foreign Interference Allegations Kevin Vuong asks if the Prime Minister is shielding 11 parliamentarians, potentially including a cabinet minister, who are in league with the Chinese Communist Party. Jenica Atwin defends the government's actions, citing the public inquiry and new legislation addressing foreign interference, while accusing Vuong of spreading misinformation.
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Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

Wayne Long Liberal Saint John—Rothesay, NB

Mr. Speaker, I have to say that I really do not disagree with a lot of the member's speech. We all come here week in and week out. The member said we have been here now for six weeks, basically wasting our time and the time of the Canadians watching, just continuing on with the debacle. What puzzles me is that the member of the NDP and his party are supporting what is going on, and they could very easily end it and stop the affront to democracy.

My question for the member is this: Why are he and his party letting the charade continue? I certainly expect that from the Conservative Party opposite but not from the New Democratic Party. Why is the member supporting the Conservatives on this?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, the answer is simple: Both parties are wrong in this case. The Liberals should be producing the documents you have ordered and should not be redacting them. The New Democrats agree with our colleagues in the Conservative and Bloc parties when they say the government has to be forthright and produce the documents that will probably implicate it and be embarrassing for it. The documents will probably show that there has been terrible misspending.

The Liberals are wrong to withhold the documents from the House. They should be sitting down and negotiating an acceptable option. Frankly, that is on the government. The Liberals are the government. They are in control of the Order Paper and of proceedings. It is up to them to end the problem; it is not up to the fourth party in Parliament.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:55 p.m.

Conservative

Marty Morantz Conservative Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia—Headingley, MB

Mr. Speaker, I was listening carefully to my colleague from the NDP's speech. He said a few things: that the housing crisis is the Liberals' fault, at least since 2015; that the SDTC spending by the Liberal government is horrible and inexcusable; and that the NDP is horrified by the wasteful spending and scandalous corruption.

The member and his colleagues have voted time and again to keep the corrupt Liberal government in power. My question is really this: Will he, at least for himself, commit to standing by his words and at the very next opportunity vote non-confidence in the government so that at least he will stand up on his principles and try to bring down the government so we can have an election?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is interesting that every opposition member elected to this place, especially in a minority Parliament, has a decision to make. They have to decide whether they are going to use their time and effort to attack, to destroy and to obtain nothing, or use their seat, voice and effort, roll up their sleeves and try to obtain benefits for Canadians. That is what I did and what the NDP did, with 25 MPs, by the way.

With 25 MPs, we secured dental care for nine million Canadians. We secured diabetes medication potentially for six million Canadians and contraception for 10 million Canadians. If we add that together, we are talking about 25 million Canadians who are going to get access to health care they do not have today. We got anti-scab legislation passed. We pushed the government to get 10 days of paid sick leave. We used our efforts to get these real, tangible results for Canadians. Frankly, the programs are still being implemented.

There is one thing I have asked the Conservatives repeatedly in the House and they will not answer: Will they cancel the dental care program that seniors right now are using to get their teeth fixed? Will they cancel the pharmacare program that is going to bring relief to people with diabetes?

The Conservatives want an election. Why would the New Democrats hasten a potential election that would hasten the Conservatives' getting rid of programs that are helping millions of Canadians? That is not what I was sent here to do. I was sent here to build services and make families' lives better, not worse.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:55 p.m.

Bloc

Gabriel Ste-Marie Bloc Joliette, QC

Mr. Speaker, I have never seen anything like this. Parliament has been dealing solely with the question of privilege for the past month and a half, as my colleague pointed out in his speech.

I was under the impression that the Conservatives wanted to trap the government by making Parliament dysfunctional. However, the fact that this has been dragging on for so long seems to suit the government. This tired government has been around for a very long time and is afraid of confidence votes. There are no such votes these days. We are no longer debating any legislation, but the government seems to have run out of ideas.

How does my colleague see the next few weeks unfolding? Will this situation go on until Christmas? If that is the case, will we be able to vote on the estimates that we are just beginning to examine in committee? Before the House is able to vote on them, there will have to be opposition days. If we do not vote on the estimates, does that mean the government will fall and the election will be called at Christmas?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, what a pleasure it is to work with my hon. colleague on the finance committee in a productive way. Tomorrow we are going to be voting on amendments to the upcoming budget. We will be taking all of the evidence and input that we heard from the stakeholders who came to the finance committee over the last two months and making suggestions to the government to make the Canadian economic climate better and to help the businesses we need to succeed.

To answer the member's question, it is really up to the Conservatives and the Liberals. The Conservatives have decided to grind the House to a halt for six weeks. In fact a Conservative MP publicly stated the other day that one of the side benefits is that the Conservatives have paralyzed the Liberals' attempt to bring any legislation forward. That is a real indictment of their true purpose, to make sure nothing happens. It is irresponsible, and the Liberals are irresponsible in not providing the documents that Parliament has a right to see.

As long as both main parties are putting their own partisan interests ahead of the interests of people, of Canadians, we are going to continue the logjam. It is a shame. The responsibility lies on them. They are going to have to answer to the Canadian people for wasting Parliament's time and not getting anything done for Canadians, when the New Democrats and I think the Bloc at least want to work together to get laws passed and get policies in place that will help Canadians.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, the core of the issue is that the matter be referred to the procedure and House affairs committee. That is the vote that needs to take place and that would get rid of the issue.

The reason it would go to the procedure and House affairs committee is that a great amount of concern has been raised by the RCMP, the Auditor General of Canada and other legal experts, who are saying that it would be inappropriate for us to hand unredacted documents directly to the RCMP. That was not necessarily known at the time the original motion was passed. Some people have suggested that it could even potentially be an abuse of power. This brings us back to the original motion. Let us get PROC to make a decision so that we, collectively as a House, do not do something that would potentially be against the charter rights of individuals.

Does the member believe that the Liberal government should be listening to the Conservatives on the issue or listening to the RCMP, the Auditor General of Canada and other legal experts who are telling us not to give the information directly to the RCMP?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5 p.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Mr. Speaker, it is a valid concern. I have read about the same concerns from police forces. It is unusual, in fact I think unprecedented, for Parliament to order documents to be delivered directly to a police force.

Having said that, I am not sure it is illegal and I am not even sure it is necessarily impossible to do. Our police forces and the RCMP are used to executing subpoenas. They are used to getting documents. They will work with the Crown to see what the documents can and cannot be used for, subject to constitutional and charter rights. The police are used to dealing with that all the time, so I am not necessarily as convinced as my hon. colleague is that it cannot be done. It should be explored.

The real question the Liberals have to answer is what they are doing about the SDTC waste of millions and millions of dollars. I have not seen any ministerial accountability for that yet. A minister of the Crown was finally removed from cabinet today, but that is totally separate from the matter at hand. I have not seen any ministerial responsibility answerable to the taxpayers for the egregious waste of millions of taxpayer dollars through the Sustainable Development Technology fund, and that is something I would like to hear from my hon. colleague.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is a real pleasure to have the opportunity to rise in the House and to be recognized by the Chair. The circumstances, though, are unfortunate. We are talking about a $400-million scandal, over 186 conflicts of interest and a lawful order from the majority of democratically elected members of Parliament, passed in the House, ordering the NDP-Liberals to hand over to the RCMP the documents pertaining to the scandal.

What they would like to do is turn the documents and the matter over to a committee. I find that wholly insufficient, and that is what I have heard from Canadians when I have talked to them, when they have called me and written to me about the matter. They want to know, when a crime is committed in their community, for example if someone steals $100, $1,000, $10,000 or breaks into a home, whether they are supposed to call a committee or supposed to call the cops. The answer is, of course, to call the police.

It is $400 million dollars that is involved, and it is interesting to note that this is what has been detected thus far, because the Auditor General reviewed only a sample in the SDTC matter. The actual malfeasance, misappropriation, theft and embezzlement that has gone on would be much, much higher than $400 million. That is exactly what the police would find out, and that is exactly why the Liberals are refusing a lawful order of Parliament to hand the documents over.

Every day, there is a new scandal with the Liberals. Today we started the day talking about the Liberal member from Edmonton who had shady business dealings, his company being sued for fraud for hundreds of thousands of dollars; his company being investigated by the Edmonton Police Service for fraud; and he and his business partner fraudulently applying for government contracts designated for indigenous-owned businesses.

The former minister said he never claimed to be indigenous except when he was applying for the contracts, disenfranchising actual indigenous-owned businesses. He now says he got his previous claims about his heritage wrong. The Liberal former minister said he was not directing his company from the cabinet table, but now we know he was and that what he said was not true.

He said his company was not applying for any government contracts while he was a minister, but we know it did in fact apply for a contract with Elections Canada, and it was awarded that contract for tens of thousands of dollars. Why would a government department award a contract to someone who sits around the table and decides on the funding and fate of its organization? I wonder why, if it did not advantage the Liberal former minister and disadvantage every other small and medium-sized business.

The business he had, by the way, was a pandemic profiteering business, taking advantage of people who were scared during a time of scarcity and great concerns about their health. Today we learned that the Liberal member from Edmonton is not in cabinet anymore. He is stepping away from cabinet to spend time with the other Randys.

It is not because the Liberal Prime Minister recognized that any one of the incidents, including having someone fraudulently claim to be indigenous, having someone have a business that is being investigated by the police for fraud, or having a minister who is directing a company from the cabinet table, would be enough to get them fired from a job in the private sector. Any one of those things would be enough to get them fired from any self-respecting government that was determined to serve Canadians and not just serve themselves and Liberal insiders. No, none of that was enough. However, I will note that Canada's first indigenous attorney general was fired for speaking out against the Prime Minister and his interference in the criminal prosecution of SNC-Lavalin. He kicked her out of caucus.

I wonder how many more days the former minister has in the Liberal caucus. The answer should be zero because his behaviour has been reprehensible. It is unbecoming not just of a minister of the Crown but of any parliamentarian. However, the Liberals stood up day after day and defended the indefensible. Some of them will stand up today and ask me questions after this speech. They defended the Liberal minister because it is not about helping Canadians when it comes to the Liberals. That is not their raison d’être.

What is the Liberals' primary objective? It is to help well-connected insiders, just as in this green slush fund. They are refusing to hand over the documents to the law clerk to go to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police. The Liberals have to protect the insiders. Every time we raised it and identified that there are some serious baddies working at that organization, the Liberals tried to sweep it under the rug, saying they were taking a look at that. No, they were not. The minister would quite excitedly proclaim that they had restored governance, but they did not. They did such a bad job at remedying the corruption, which they fostered and allowed to fester, that they just folded it into a government department, away from prying eyes and accountability to Canadians and parliamentarians. They did this so that their board chair, their other GIC appointees and their well-connected friends could line their pockets while Canadians lined up at food banks.

That is the thing about the Liberals. They are only ever sorry when they get caught. They said they had it in hand all along, but they are never willing to go far enough to do the right thing for Canadians.

Just yesterday, the Prime Minister said of the disgraced Liberal member for Edmonton Centre that he was happy for him to continue in cabinet. Knowing what he knew about all of his false claims and all the alleged criminality at his business, the Prime Minister was happy for him to stay, just as the Liberals are happy for everyone who is involved in SDTC to avoid the prying eyes of the police.

What are they so afraid of? I think they are terrified that once RCMP officers get a look at what went on, it is going to be bigger than the $400 million that was identified in the sample examined by the Auditor General's team, with more than 186 conflicts of interest. It is going to be worse. That is the culture that has been allowed, though, under the current NDP-Liberal government.

The Prime Minister himself has twice been found guilty of breaking the law while serving as Prime Minister. The now Public Safety Minister was found guilty of breaking the law, as was the trade minister. The former finance minister was found guilty of breaking the law while serving as finance minister. The current Speaker, former parliamentary secretary to the Liberal Prime Minister, was also found guilty of breaking the law. Why is this? It is because they used their positions to help their friends, well-connected insiders and themselves.

What did Canadians get with nine years of Liberals helping themselves and well-connected insiders? Our national debt has doubled. Home prices, rents and the needed down payment for a home have all doubled. Food bank use is now at a record high. When we talk about the struggles that Canadians have after nine years under the NDP-Liberals, child poverty is at its worst today. Now, 25% of Canadians, as reported by the Liberal government's own stats agency, are going to have to rely on food banks. That is interesting, because 25% is not the unemployment rate. This means that we have millions of Canadians who are working but have to go to the food bank.

In my conversations with operators and volunteers at food banks, I hear that they are having a real challenge in keeping up not just with the food-side demand but also with the volunteers needed to operate the food banks. The people who are using their services, who are relying on food banks to feed themselves and their families, now have to go to the food bank between shifts or between jobs. After they finish their first job for the day, they have to go to the food bank and then go to their next job. Therefore, people are working two and sometimes three jobs, but they still cannot afford nutritious food for their families. Man, are these guys ever helping themselves out, making sure that it is sunny ways for Liberal insiders and their well-connected friends but cloudy skies for everybody else.

It really makes me wonder why the Liberals do what they do. They say that they have altruistic goals, such as wanting to do something about the environment. Are they going to reduce the carbon footprint, let us say, for the head of government? No, of course they are not. The Liberal Prime Minister is a high-carbon hypocrite, the likes of which we have never seen. Meanwhile, he is raising the carbon tax on everyday Canadians, with food price inflation in this country outstripping that of our peer nations; he is taxing the farmers who grow the food, the truckers who move it, the grocers who sell it and the people who buy it. We have higher taxes just for the crime of heating our own home.

Can we imagine that, in our climate, the government would punish heating one's home? The Liberals say this is a behaviour that needs to be changed. We know that the Deputy Prime Minister, a Liberal from Toronto, thinks that people out in P.E.I. are going to be taking the subway instead of driving their pickup truck. However, I have news for the Deputy Prime Minister. Whether it is Victoria-by-the-Sea, Prince Edward Island; Victoria, British Columbia; or Athens, Ontario, in my community, no one is getting on the SkyTrain, the subway or a streetcar. They are getting in a minivan to take their kids to hockey, getting in the pickup truck to drive to the job site, or getting in their car to get some groceries or pick up their mom to take her to a doctor's appointment. They are just trying to live their lives.

Meanwhile, it is jet-setting and high-carbon hypocrisy with the Liberals. Of course, they are backed up on every bit of the pain they foist on Canadians by their accomplices in the NDP, who have abandoned working Canadians. While the Liberals impose binding arbitration on workers, we have seen the NDP saying that they are still going to support the Liberals. They have abandoned the very people they purported to represent in order to get elected.

Let us just take the tally. It is not about helping the environment; it is about helping themselves, jet-setting around the world all the while. It is not about helping Canadians, who just want to get by. They want to afford a good home in a safe neighbourhood, to be able to feed themselves and their families nutritious foods and to have a comfortable retirement someday. We have seen that with the economic vandalism perpetrated on Canadians with the inflationary deficits and monumental waste they have engaged in with the support of the NDP. They have abandoned workers, Canadian families and the Canadian middle class. The dream of people who came to this country long before I was born, as well as those who have aspired to come to it since I was born, was that they would be able to do those things I said: work hard, earn a good paycheque, buy a home in a safe neighbourhood, feed themselves and be able to retire. They believed their kids would do better than they did.

I have good news. The picture painted after nine years under the NDP-Liberals sounds pretty gloomy. However, life was not like this before the NDP-Liberal government, and it is not going to be like this after. That is why our common-sense Conservative plan will restore that promise for Canadians. I am so excited about it; I am very optimistic and hopeful for the future of this country, for my five young children, for young children across this country and for people who dream of coming to this land.

We know the Liberals have broken so many things, including housing and our immigration system, but we can fix it. All it will take is a carbon tax election to restore the fairness, promise and affordability that Canadians were born with and that people around the world have aspired to enjoy.

The Liberals do not want to do the right thing and turn over these documents so that they can be transmitted to the RCMP. They are terrified of what will be revealed. However, it does not mean we are going to stop our important work of holding them to account and making sure that, when a government oversees, presides over and permits, thereby promoting, the kind of fraud and corruption we have seen in this green slush fund, we are not going to abide it. The Liberals want to turn it over to a committee; we want to turn it over to the police, which is the rightful place for it to go.

Canadians cannot count on the Liberals. They have done a lot of carping about wanting to get on with other things in the House, but this is what we are here to do. I have a really simple solution for the Liberals: They can turn the documents over to the RCMP, and we can get on to those other things.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:20 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Mr. Speaker, I do not believe Conservative members truly understand the consequences of this multi-million dollar game of a filibuster that is being orchestrated by the leader of the Conservative Party. It is going to cost Canadians greatly. There is complete disregard. There is an interesting story today. I think members opposite need to listen to what Conservatives are saying about their own leader, including members of Parliament. I quote: “He's the one who decides everything. His main adviser is himself…The people around him are only there to realize the leader's vision.”

I have been saying that for weeks now, that the leader of the Conservative Party and this whole multi-million dollar game are all about his personal self-interest.

When will Conservative members of Parliament stand up and speak their own minds as opposed to the mind of the leader of the Conservative Party and realize that what they are doing is borderline contempt of Parliament?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, for a guy whose government presided over more than $400 million being pilfered from Canadian taxpayers, he seems pretty incensed about things unrelated to the subject matter that we have talked about. I will say a couple of things.

First of all, he did not quote any member of Parliament so I am not sure what kind of fantasy fiction he is spinning.

I scrummed with the media today. As a matter of fact, on this very scandal, as far as where it came from, this was initiated by common-sense Conservatives at the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. Guess what? I sit on that committee. The reason it is here today, I am so delighted to tell the parliamentary secretary, is that I had great help, partnership and collaboration with my Conservative colleagues in bringing this forward.

The second thing: on the cost of dealing with this in the House, the cost of not dealing with it is incredibly dangerous because Canadians cannot afford more of this scandal and fraud to be perpetrated without it being stopped. It ends here. This is the red line. We are not going to let them cross it.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Mr. Speaker, we have been debating this issue for a few weeks now. This is not the first time we have had to tighten the screws to obtain unredacted documents. It also happened at the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, which our committee chair refers to as “the mighty OGGO”.

I believe my colleague has more experience in this Parliament than I do. My question is this. If there were an election tomorrow and the Conservative party won, would he have access to the unredacted documents? If so, would he show them to the rest of Parliament?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is a great question from my hon. colleague. We have said that common-sense Conservatives, when in government, will restore accountability, just like we have said on matters of national security. Any elected parliamentarian who has been knowingly participating with a foreign state in surreptitious activity will be named. We will name them. We will not engage in the games like the Prime Minister.

On this matter, a matter that is so serious and that deals with hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars and speaks to a much deeper rot and corruption in the Liberal government, of course, the documents will be transmitted, unredacted, to the Royal Canadian Mounted Police through the parliamentary law clerk. Why? It is because that is what the House ordered to have been done and that is exactly what Conservatives will do. Why? It is because it is the right thing to do.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Chong Conservative Wellington—Halton Hills, ON

Mr. Speaker, there is an easy way for the government to end the filibuster in the House. In fact, there is only one way to end the filibuster and that is for the government to hand over the documents. I quote yesterday's Globe and Mail editorial entitled “A Parliament that is dead on the inside.”

It reads: “There are a few ways this could end. But there is only one right way, and that is for the Liberal government to respect the will of the House and hand over the documents. Anything else would be a disgraceful blow to Parliament's ability to hold governments to account.”

Further, it says, “It's no way to run a country. Yes, there are other means to end the filibuster, and maybe at one point an opposition party will break out the defibrillator. But the Conservatives are not the bad guys in this scenario. Only the Liberal government, with its refusal to respect the will of the House, is responsible for Parliament's paralysis.”

Will the member comment on that?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, we have heard from the Liberals before about what they think about objective reporting. The Liberal Prime Minister famously said of the scandal involving himself when he interfered in the criminal prosecution of SNC-Lavalin that the story in the Globe was false. Now we know what the Prime Minister said in that case was dishonest.

However, the question from my hon. colleague from Wellington—Halton Hills was an excellent one, because this could end today. The government simply needs to hand over the documents unredacted. The Prime Minister, his party and his Liberal MPs who are abiding by this paralysis of Parliament are the ones who are able to end this in an instant. They simply need to stand up and tell the Prime Minister to end the cover-up and turn over the documents. It is really simple to understand why they would do that. It is simple to understand why they would not, because they are terrified about what is going to be found out when the documents are turned over.

It is incredible the damage that this does to our democratic institutions when the Prime Minister of Canada is refusing lawful orders of the House of Commons for document production. It can set a very dangerous precedent. Frankly, he could just simply do the right thing, turn the documents over today and end this.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, let me provide a quote from an article written by Steven Chaplin. Steven Chaplin is the former senior legal counsel in the Office of the Law Clerk and Parliamentary Counsel. He is a real expert. Here is what he had to say about this multi-million dollar game of the Conservative leader a couple of weeks ago:

It is time for the House of Commons to admit it was wrong, and to move on. There has now been three weeks of debate on a questionable matter of privilege based on the misuse of the House’ power to order producing documents.

He goes on:

It is time for the House to admit its overreach before the matter inevitably finds it way to the courts which do have the ability to determine and limit the House’s powers, often beyond what the House may like.

That was a quote from a newspaper article. I would encourage the members opposite to read it all. It was an expert who wrote that, but do not be confused by experts.

What words of wisdom does the member have to say about these particular quotes from an article by an expert?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

November 20th, 2024 / 5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, just like the parliamentary secretary, the individual he quotes is wrong. That has been affirmed by the parliamentary law clerk. The law clerk for the House of Commons has testified that the House has the absolute unfettered power to order the production of these documents.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:30 p.m.

An hon. member

Oh, oh!

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Frank Caputo Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC

Madam Speaker, on a point of order, the member for Winnipeg North just called my hon colleague a name. He should apologize. Not only that, it was completely inaccurate.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:30 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, absolutely, I withdraw it.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Madam Speaker, it is quite clear that the Liberals have run out of arguments. They have been demonstrated to be wrong. What they are doing is not consistent with exactly what the law clerk for the House of Commons has said.

Since the member is not able to engage in a debate worthy of this place, I have nothing further to add.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Cheryl Gallant Conservative Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke, ON

Madam Speaker, my colleague said that things were not this bad before the Liberals came into power and they will not be that bad if everyone who wants to get rid of the corrupt government comes out in person and votes in the next election for a Conservative government.

Would the member tell the assembled members what steps a new Conservative majority government would take in order to ensure that things are not like this anymore and everyone will be able to afford a home and afford food?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Madam Speaker, I have a tremendous amount of respect for the member for Renfrew—Nipissing—Pembroke.

Quite simply, we are going to axe the tax, build the homes, fix the budget and stop the crime. We are going to get rid of the carbon tax and, of course, take the GST off new home construction.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:30 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Madam Speaker, over the last several weeks, all of us have had the opportunity to think about why this place needs to function. This debate has been precipitated because the government has refused to respect the will of this place. This place needs to function as it was designed to function under the Standing Orders and under all the rules and privileges that we are afforded here in this place because, in a lot of ways, democracy can be an illusion if this place does not function.

We are each imbued with power of people. For me, it is close to 120,000 people; I represent that many people. I sometimes think in my head of a Saddledome filled several times over and the responsibility that I have to be the voice of that many people. The rules that we have in this place allow me to speak on their behalf and also prevent Canadians from feeling like they have to settle conflicts or differences or get action through violence. We have to ensure that so many things work here in order to keep our democracy functioning.

My colleague from Wellington—Halton Hills mentioned an article in The Globe and Mail this week. It was written by the editorial board. It is entitled “A Parliament that is dead on the inside”. In establishing its thesis, the article states as follows, “The House has, as established through the Constitution, the absolute power to order the production of government documents—in this case, documents related to the disgraced Sustainable Development Technology Canada agency.” The government has not complied with an order of the House. Therefore, the Speaker found a breach of members' privileges. Now the way to end this, the way to respect the will of Parliament, is for the government to comply with the order, period.

I want to put why this place has to function in a slightly different context. I gave that why, perhaps not explicitly, in a speech that I gave last week at Royal Canadian Legion Branch 284, the Chapelhow legion. I would like to impart to colleagues today why this place has to function and why the government must comply with the House order.

Recently, one of our younger colleagues, the member for Battle River—Crowfoot, stood in the House to deliver a tribute to his father, who had passed away unexpectedly. He closed with a call to action, “my hope is that everyone can remember my dad, Jay, by living with the strength, generosity and faith he showed us.” In response and in a rare show of unity, all members of this place rose and gave him a standing ovation. My colleague's hope and the reaction it evoked among us, a divided people often, exemplify a phenomenon I have often seen in moments of grief. Eulogies of remarkable people are never mere lists of accomplishments. Instead, they challenge us to ensure that their work to improve the human condition endures beyond their lives, uniting us to carry their mission forward.

More than a century ago, Canadian physician Lieutenant-Colonel John McCrae wrote one of the most blunt and enduring calls to action ever contained in a remembrance. In 1915, his friend, Lieutenant Alexis Helmer, fell in combat during the Second Battle of Ypres. After his funeral and noticing the poppies springing up among graves of the fallen, McCrae wrote an elegy entitled In Flanders Fields:

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.
We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.
Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields.

In his poem, McCrae, who later died in the war, left a solemn charge to future generations: “You will face the same foe we did and you must engage with it, lest everything we, the war dead, have sacrificed for you be in vain. If you succeed, there shall still be beauty and we shall rest easy, but if you fail, there will be no rest for any of us in this life or the next.”

If McCrae's mandate to us was clear, the enemy he called us to face was left undefined. One could interpret it as a call to defeat enemy soldiers, but this view seems overly narrow to me. McCrae's words transcend literal war. They speak to a more insidious, pervasive threat.

In recent years, I have become increasingly concerned that Canadians spend too little time reflecting on McCrae's lament's true meaning, even on Remembrance Day. With division and unrest spreading through our communities, schools and places of worship, I fear many have grown complacent or naive about the foe McCrae identified.

Years of peace and prosperity have lulled Canadians into thinking the foe can neither take root here nor harm us. Some even see the foe as a friend, believing it worthy of protection rather than something to root out. These are lies that we, particularly in this place, are duty bound to reject if we are to complete McCrae’s task. However, what exactly is the enemy McCrae asked us to confront?

Through my time in public service, I have seen first-hand the worst that humanity can inflict upon itself. I have walked through homes reduced to blackened rubble, where the fresh stench of death and blood spatter were all that was left of families who once inhabited them. I have walked over mass graves. I have met survivors of genocide and sexual slavery, and listened as world leaders attempted to diminish the crimes committed against them. I have witnessed mothers whose starving children limply clung to them in refugee camps, displaced by warfare and disease. I know that all who serve in our military have seen far worse than I have.

I know our foe is real, pervasive and intent on our destruction, but I also know the horrors of war, though perhaps its most visible manifestation, do not constitute the foe itself.

If it is not war, then what is it? I believe the foe germinates in complacency and the false belief that Canada is immune to external threats. It spreads by erasing the hard-learned lessons of past conflicts and convincing us that others will defend our freedom, rendering us unprepared and unwilling to defend it ourselves. It fosters divisiveness and denies the existence of a Canadian identity. However, this assumption that the foe can be ignored or that Canada lacks something worth defending is fatally flawed. In that place of folly, of ingratitude, decadence, arrogance and naïveté, we meet McCrae's foe: the desire to subjugate others and strip away their freedoms.

It terrifies me that the foe so obviously lives on in Canada despite McCrae's cautionary words and the sacrifices made by so many who have fought to defend our nation in armed combat. That is because the foe, left unchecked, inevitably leads to the downfall of a free people like us in Canada. If we are truly to honour those who have fallen in defence of our nation, we must accept that opposing the foe is a battle each of us, particularly in this place, is currently engaged in. We must view remembrance as a lifelong charge, a sacred duty to prevent the foe from eroding Canadian freedoms, democratic institutions and our national unity.

Like mould spores, the foe lives on every surface of human nature, constantly probing for new hosts to infect. It seeks to divide us and strip us of our birthrights: freedom of speech, the choice of our own path, the right to worship without persecution and the ability to love without consequence. It attempts to deceive us, suggesting that to preserve these freedoms we must abandon our most fundamental responsibility: to do no harm to another.

We must be vigilant on these matters. The foe cannot be appeased and it will not de-escalate. Thus, we must resist the foe within our minds, in our relationships, in our workplaces and in civil society. This is a challenging task. The foe often disguises itself as a virtuous ideology that is wrong to challenge, masking its true intentions. It often attempts to convince us that the only way to protect our freedom is to take away or limit the freedom of others, and yet, hope lies in Canada's history.

When McCrae penned In Flanders Fields, Canadian soldiers were fighting for one of the first times as a unified force. During the First World War, soldiers of diverse backgrounds, including over 4,000 indigenous people, fought side by side under the Canadian banner for the goodness our nation represents. In that war, and others that followed, men and women of all faiths fought alongside one another to liberate others from the foe. This unity, the miracle of people setting aside differences to protect the freedom found in our nation, is the foe's greatest fear. That miracle, thankfully, remains alive and well today.

We must thank those who have fought for Canada, but we also must renew our commitment to confront the foe here ourselves. How do we quarrel with the foe, as McCrae charged us to do? What must we do to hold it at bay? The foe responds to hard power, making it essential for our nation to be capable of self-defence and for military service to be respected. However, civilians too must bear the responsibility of keeping the foe in check.

We know the foe is deathly allergic to freedom and equality of opportunity, and so we can starve it of the fuel it needs. The foe's oxygen is religious hatred, rigid caste structures, petty jealousies, intellectual laziness, selfishness, political cowardice and autocracy. The foe cannot thrive in a nation in which anyone, of any background, belief or origin, can live without fear of persecution and prosper by the work of their hand.

Canada and other countries committed to traditions of freedom, democracy and justice, and the rule of law, are humanity's best and only defence against the foe. It is only within those nations where institutions exist that allow us to solve society-scale grievances through words and democratic action instead of with violence that humanity has been able to hold the foe at bay for any length of time.

We must remember that the foe confronts us every day in small moments, like when we choose to empathize rather than judge, when we bear witness to suffering rather than ignore it and when we temper anger with understanding, but also when we work to correct injustices. Fighting the foe means shedding ideologies that undermine our freedoms. It means thinking critically, challenging the status quo and forgiving when we can. A shared commitment to freedom and decency can transcend many divides, a reminder that the foe seeks to silence us, and it seeks to silence us here, but that we must protect open dialogue as a safeguard against our democracy.

Perhaps the most potent weapon against the foe is pride in Canada. Canada is the embodiment of freedom from the foe, a shining example of peaceful, democratic pluralism. We weaken the foe each time we feel pride for our country singing in our blood. Every time we sing the national anthem, every time we wave our flag, wear the poppy or thank a veteran, we strike a blow against it.

Proud of our nation we should be. Canada offers a promise of freedom and prosperity that tens of millions of people from around the world have migrated to experience. It is the promise Lieutenant-Colonel McCrae fought and died for and the promise he threw the torch to us to protect.

Today, the foe seeks to extinguish this pride and make us feel ashamed of the goodness that can be found in our shared Canadian traditions. The foe understands we will not fight to protect something if we do not value it. That is why it tempts us to cancel Canada Day celebrations and seeks to normalize shouts of death to Canada and the burning of Canadian flags in our streets.

That is why it wants us to view the Canadian military uniform as a symbol of oppression instead of the proud armour of liberators it always has been. That is why it seeks to have us erase our nation's history instead of celebrating the good while fixing the bad. It gives me hope that many Canadians of differing political viewpoints, religions and ethnic backgrounds are coming together to reject these lies and defend the institutions that protect our national identity of freedom. People united in freedom, as we can be here in this country, is the foe's undoing.

When we stand together as Canadians, united in our love for our nation, our freedoms, our democratic institutions, we, the true north, strong and free, truly honour those who have fought and died to protect Canada's promise. When we do this, we defeat the foe. To Lieutenant-Colonel McCrae and to all those who have served our nation across time, we are thankful for what they have done and we give our promise today: We remember, we will take up the quarrel with the foe and we will prevail. God keep our land glorious and free. O Canada, now and always we stand together proudly on guard for thee, lest we forget.

I believe this place has forgotten. I believe it has broken faith with those who died. If we do not protect the democratic institution that is Parliament, then we have broken faith. We have let the foe into this institution and it is insidious. We are supposed to think this is not a big deal. It is not a big deal that the government is not respecting the will of the House. We are supposed to believe that the Liberal government does not have a duty to comply with this, that we should just send this to a committee, that we should just let it go, that it is not a big deal.

At the end of the day, reading the Globe editorial from yesterday, and my colleague from Wellington—Halton Hills read the quote at the end, the government is honour bound and duty bound to respect the will of Parliament. If the government does not do that, then our democratic institution is broken. This is a lie. How are we supposed to uphold the principles of democracy that allow our pluralism to thrive, that allow us to solve quarrels without violence, that allow us to uphold freedoms? If we cannot do that here, it is impossible across the country.

That is why we have parliamentary privilege. It is my privilege to stand in this place on behalf of over 100,000 Canadians. If the government is not complying with the will of Parliament, then that privilege has been violated. It is not just my privilege; it is the privilege of every single Canadian. That is the gravity of the situation here. This, to me, is a hill to die on.

There is a reason we are demanding that the government hand over these documents, and there is a reason we are asking our colleagues in the other opposition parties to hold the line. There is a greater principle at play here. That principle is whether or not we are going to allow McCrae's foe to seep into our business here, in our naïveté, in our comfort, our decadence and our arrogance, that what happens here does not matter.

Many people have said this place does not matter anymore, bureaucracy runs everything and there is no ministerial accountability. That may be, but for what I will do, and in the promise I make to people who serve in Canada's military, people who serve abroad, people of all walks of life who have decided to take up the quarrel with the foe, who have caught the torch from failing hands, I will not let that pass. Nor should anyone in this place, regardless of political strife, members of the government backbench particularly.

This is the time for political courage. Our democracy is under attack. It is no less than that. There is no amount of hyperbole in that statement. It is the time for political courage. It is the time to hold space and to honour those who have sacrificed to protect the democratic institution in which we are so privileged every day to speak.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:50 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, one of the greatest honours I have had in my lifetime was when I served in the Canadian Forces and I marched with World War II veterans. After the marches, we would often go to the legions. I would see these grown men in tears. They believed in Canada. They fought for our country, and many of their friends had died.

When I think of bringing that to the table and of the types of debates we have here on the floor of the House of Commons, I believe that they would believe that, yes, Parliament does have unfettered power. It is an incredible authority that we have as parliamentarians, but it does not give us the right to abuse that power.

I would highly recommend that the member read the Hill Times story from October 28, written by Steven Chaplin, and see how that might influence her. I, for one, believe in the freedoms that we often hear about. There are issues I have with the tactics the Conservative opposition party is using. I would think that she would share some of those.