House of Commons Hansard #369 of the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was liberal.

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Unparliamentary Language when Quoting from Correspondence—Speaker's RulingPoints of Order

10 a.m.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Carol Hughes

I am now going to read my decision on the point of order that was raised late during yesterday's sitting. A point of order was raised by the parliamentary secretary to the government House leader in relation to language used by the member for King—Vaughan when quoting from correspondence.

In quoting from the said document, the member for King—Vaughan had taken the appropriate step of replacing the name of the Prime Minister by his title; however, she did read into the record a relatively strong and offensive term in relation to that member. In his intervention, the parliamentary secretary argued that one should not do indirectly what cannot be done directly. As we were getting close to the Adjournment Proceedings, I undertook to take the matter under consideration and come back to the House if necessary.

First off, it is an acceptable practice for members to quote from correspondence they receive. As mentioned in the House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, at page 614:

[Members] may quote from private correspondence as long as they identify the sender by name or take full responsibility for its contents

It also says, on the same page, that:

There is no Standing Order which governs the citation of documents; the House is guided mainly by custom and precedent. Generally, the reading of articles from newspapers, books or other documents by a Member during debate has become an accepted practice and is not ruled out of order provided that such quotations do not...use language which would be out of order if spoken by a Member.

This principle has been confirmed by multiple rulings by Speakers. For example, in Speaker Milliken’s ruling of November 8, 2006, on page 4895 of the Debates, he pointed out, and I quote:

Hon. members cannot do indirectly what they cannot do directly. Using language that is unparliamentary because they are quoting somebody is not satisfactory. We will not have these quotes read this way.

I would urge all members to stay away from such comments even when quoting from documents. Taking unparliamentary language from a quotation and then attributing it to another individual does not make it more acceptable.

I thank all members for their attention.

The House resumed from November 7 consideration of the motion, of the amendment and of the amendment to the amendment.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:05 a.m.

Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

Madam Speaker, I just want to remind the House that I am continuing my intervention from last night where I was reading into the record correspondence I received from Stephanie. These are her words.

“I am watching clips of what is going on in the House of Commons and in Parliament all the time and we are going in circles. It does not matter how many scandals or how much corruption has taken place with these [NDP-Liberals]. They are getting away with all of them. It is as if they are completely above the law. What will it take for an election to happen? How much more damage will this [Prime Minister] and his little sinister sidekicks do between now and the next election?

“We are all reeling here about what has happened to a member of our work family in our community. Do we collectively stop giving a cent to the CRA? Do we have any power at all? Is it all a ruse?

“I'm counting on the leader of the Conservatives for change. I'm deeply concerned and devastated by what has happened to my country and what a mess my kids now have to navigate. I have a message for the Liberal-NDP MPs in Ottawa next time you see them, if you will kindly oblige me. 'To all of you sitting on the Liberals' side, you, who are fully aware by now of the criminal acts and corruption of several members of this government. You made a promise to your constituents to represent them in Ottawa, yet you are sitting here today saying and doing absolutely nothing. Somehow, I don't think the people who elected you would be okay with $400 million unaccounted for and the multitude of scandals that have taken place with the government in the last nine years, and brazenly stolen tax dollars on the backs of hard-working Canadians who put their trust in you.

“The member from Vaughan—Woodbridge even tried to gaslight Canadians by telling them that this is their decade and they have never had it so good. Are you kidding me? Have you actually spoken to anyone in Woodbridge recently? I have and I beg to differ. Take a good hard look at yourselves. Did you not go into this line of work for the love of country and your communities? I find it very hard to believe that every single one of you went into this to steal, lie and deceive. It can't be possible. Yet here we are. Your collective inactions are complicit, and your complicit behaviour is treasonous. Shame on all of you.”

The Liberals will be held to account when the next government takes over and has to clean up the mess they have created.

The correspondence from Stephanie continues:

“[To the] cowards wanting a secret ballot because you know that what is going on is wrong and you are not willing to speak the truth, you should be calling their crimes out from the rooftops in full light of day. We are looking, we are listening and we are watching. We will not forget. What do I say to my friends and family to give them hope and convince them to cast their vote despite their fatigue and frustrations? We need inspiration here. We are tired, we are sad and we don't recognize our country anymore. You and the leader of the Conservative Party got my vote. Please do not let us down. Please, continue to fight hard and give us hope.

“With all my heart and sincerity, Stephanie.”

I hear her anger, I feel her frustration and I share her concerns. She is not alone. I hope the Prime Minister and all the supporters in the NDP-Liberal government, who have remained quiet, heard her as well. She has touched so many issues and concerns in her letter that are shared by many Canadians. Crime, lack of transparency and continuous scandals and corruption have led to their fatigue and frustration.

If Stephanie is watching, here is our promise to her. Conservatives will axe the tax, which will make the cost of everything more affordable. Conservatives will build the homes so that our children can realize their dream of home ownership. Conservatives will fix the budget and stop the crime in the hope that no other little boy will ever have to witness his father being shot and feel it was his fault.

I will leave the NDP-Liberals with a sentiment of British philosopher Edmund Burke that has been quoted by many others over the years, “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men [and good women] to do nothing.” These are the words of constituents from my riding of King—Vaughan.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:10 a.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Madam Speaker, in the hon. member's speech, she mentioned what happened to the country. I can say what happened. While the opposition parties were involved in petty politics, we were working hard for Canadians. With our actions and programs, the inflation rate is at a historic low, interest rates have been cut four times and the consumer price index is at a 30-month high. Rents in Toronto have fallen by 9.4% year over year. These are the kinds of things we are focused on. We are working hard for Canadians while the Conservative Party is playing petty politics.

I would ask the hon. member to specifically address the things that are happening today in the economy, how global inflation has been tamed by the actions of our government, how we have addressed the affordability issues of Canadians and what the results are that we are seeing today.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:10 a.m.

Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

Madam Speaker, I am a little concerned. We are talking about $400 million of hard-earned taxpayer money. We need to report to the Canadian public why the government refuses to release the documents. Liberals need to be held accountable.

The member can talk about everything he wants, but what about the 1,400 tent encampments? What about the lineups of over two million people at food banks? What about the 5.42 million meals served by Sai Dham Food Bank in one month? How does he explain the $400 million of hard-earned taxpayer money being wasted by the corrupt government?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:10 a.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Madam Speaker, honestly, I think we have to be realistic right now. The Leader of the Opposition refuses to get security clearance so he can get that information. He refuses to get security clearance, period. Even if he did not want the information about how his own party is implicated in foreign interference, even if he did not want the information about the leadership race that put him in the position he is in and how it was corrupted by foreign interference, he could still get his security clearance, except he has chosen not to.

The Conservatives have spent weeks rage farming all over the country, but their leader, who wants to be the prime minister of this country, refuses to get a security clearance, and every single Canadian should be worried about that.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

Madam Speaker, like Stephanie said in her letter, the NDP-Liberal government is in a coalition. The member is trying to deflect from the fact that the government has created a $400-million scandal when individuals are lining up at the food bank.

The Prime Minister is the only one who can release those names. Why does he not do that?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:15 a.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Madam Speaker, after hearing my colleague's remarks, I just have one thing to say. I would like to extend my condolences to Stephanie and to the family of the man who was murdered, especially his son.

I would like to tell his son that he was very brave and that he must not blame himself. Now, he should grow up in the light. That would be the best way to keep his father with him and to make his father proud. He should be proud of his courage in an extremely difficult moment that no one should have to experience.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

Madam Speaker, I want to explain that it was very hard for me to read that letter about this six-year-old boy who witnessed the shooting of his father. He called his grandmother and said it was his fault that he could not protect his daddy.

That is not the Canada my grandfather came to in 1950. Criminals have more luxuries and freedom than survivors and victims. There has been a 75% increase in violence against women and children. Why is that? I will tell the House. It is because the laws need to be changed if we are going to protect our communities. I thank my hon. colleague for her kind words, and I agree with her. This little boy is a hero.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Terry Dowdall Conservative Simcoe—Grey, ON

Madam Speaker, my colleague's speeches, today and yesterday, were very interesting. In my riding, I am often asked to speak at high schools and talk to civics and leadership classes. More than ever, there really seems to be a distrust of many politicians of all stripes. We can name all the scandals one after another. Is the member opposite hearing this as well because of the continual scandals, and what will it take for the public to trust in members of Parliament once again?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

Madam Speaker, I hear the same comments day in, day out. My phone rings continuously, and people are tired. They are fed up. They are fed up that their hard work is not bringing home the paycheques that allow them to support their families. We need a carbon tax election. Not only are the Conservatives saying it, but the country is also saying it. We need to convince the Liberal-NDP members that what they are doing is not helping the country. People are leaving this country because they cannot afford to live here anymore. We need a carbon tax election now.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:15 a.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I disagree in many ways with a lot of the misleading information that is put on the record, and the previous speaker is a good example of that.

I give my condolences to Stephanie and appreciate the hardship she has experienced. However, I would challenge the member opposite, as I have done with other members. If they really believe what they are saying and want to be genuine to individuals such as Stephanie, why will no Conservative MP step up and discuss the issue we have been debating with me? In this case, I will go to the Niagara University in Ontario and challenge the member; we will invite Stephanie to be in the audience with us. Let us go to the university and talk to a class of individuals who are not political partisans. They can listen to what the member has to say compared with what I have to say to them and allow those students to pass a judgment in terms of a vote.

I will make the trip to Niagara University, and let us see if we can generate a classroom, invite Stephanie and listen to the arguments the member makes related to the motion we are talking about today. Will the member opposite do what none of her colleagues has done and accept the challenge?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

Madam Speaker, I accept that challenge, and so will Stephanie. I had a long conversation with her, and she explained to me that, when her family came to this country, they could afford a home and could afford to support their families. Working hard meant that people were able to save up for a vacation. People could have their children play hockey in the streets and not worry about the crime running rampant in our country. They could make sure the government was accountable and transparent. That is not happening today.

Why will the Liberals not release the documents to the RCMP so that we can explain to Stephanie and all the other constituents what the government has done with the constituents' $400 million?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Don Davies NDP Vancouver Kingsway, BC

Madam Speaker, I agree with my hon. colleague that people are really struggling right now. In Vancouver Kingsway, people are having trouble paying their skyrocketing rent; they cannot afford a home, and they are living paycheque to paycheque. They are facing food insecurity. People need help.

My colleague referred to one of her constituents, Stephanie. One of my constituents, a senior named Mary, contacted me last week. She told me that she went to the dentist for the first time and got dentures. She had been living without teeth for years. She could not eat an apple. Her nutrition and her overall health suffered. She got dental care, primary health care, because of what the NDP has done in Parliament.

Cutting dental care would hurt millions of Canadians, including seniors who need it. If the member's party forms government, will she cut dental care, or will she stand up today and say here in the House that she will support, keep and expand the dental care that is helping Canadians in this country?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Anna Roberts Conservative King—Vaughan, ON

Madam Speaker, I will say this: If the wasteful spending of the Liberal-NDP government had not occurred, we would have had the funds to support our seniors and to make sure they are able to go to the dentist. We are not talking about just $400 million. How many other scandals are there? There is the $60 million scandal. It totals in the billions. Let us be honest here. The money wasted because of the NDP coalition with the Liberals could have helped millions of seniors, but they refuse to stand firm.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, I am always pleased to rise in the House on behalf of the great people of Sturgeon River—Parkland to talk about their priorities in Parliament.

After nine years, the evidence is clear that the NDP-Liberal government has proven too costly in terms of crime, taxes, corruption and just plain incompetence. I am proud to rise in the House once again to hold the Liberal government to account for its corruption and incompetence before Parliament, for our democracy and for all Canadians. In Parliament today, we are speaking about a ruling the Speaker made that the Liberal government violated an order of the House of Commons by refusing to submit full, unredacted evidence for a criminal investigation into a $400-million green slush fund scandal. This ruling, combined with the government's actions, has paralyzed Parliament, which is preventing us from focusing on issues, such as the skyrocketing cost of housing, Liberal inflation's effect on food prices and the rising rate of crime.

Today, we are dealing with an issue of the Liberal government's incompetence and negligence in the form of $400 million of inappropriately diverted money at Sustainable Development Technology Canada. It was funnelled into the hands of directors who had a conflict of interest. They had a financial interest in the companies they were sending taxpayer money to. The directors were appointed by the Liberal government; they were accountable to the Liberal government and the Minister of Industry, yet the government refused to act while $400 million in taxpayer money was misappropriated for personal gain.

Until the Prime Minister meets our demands to release the full, unredacted documents to the RCMP, Parliament will be forced to continue with this very important privilege debate. Until then, Liberals will find no rest. Conservatives will continue to fight tooth and nail to stand up for the rights of Parliament in the House, stand up to the government's corruption and ensure that taxpayers get every single stolen dollar back.

We are talking about parliamentary privilege. For those Canadians who are tuning in and may not understand what parliamentary privilege means, it means that members of the House of Commons have rights. This is a sacred principle we inherited from the mother of parliaments, Westminster. The Liberal government has violated the rights of Parliament by refusing to release documents that Parliament demanded. These powers to call for documents are rooted in the very Constitution of this country, from 1867, and in the Parliament of Canada Act. This issue is so significant that the Speaker had to rule on it. We have been debating it for weeks in the House, to the exclusion of all other issues, because the government continues to paralyze Parliament and refuses to hand over the documents Parliament requested.

If the Liberals think they have a mandate from Canadians to refuse to hand over documents Parliament has demanded, they must take it to a higher power, the people of Canada, to get a mandate to withhold these documents. They do not have that mandate; they do not have the courage to call an election, so we are here today with a paralyzed Parliament.

The Liberals have claimed that they cannot release these documents because that would infringe on charter rights. This is a very novel argument. It is an appeal to ignorance, one would say. They say that releasing the documents might infringe on rights, so they must withhold them, but they do not offer any clear or concrete evidence to back up this claim. I say that the charter was created to protect Canadians from the excesses and evils of government, not to protect government from accountability, Canadians or Canada's Parliament.

The documents that were provided were heavily redacted, censored and blacked out. This level of secrecy in a country such as Canada, or anywhere across the world, is wrong. It is preventing us from holding the government to account for the way it spends our money. Parliament has the authority to spend taxpayers' money. These are hard-won privileges; they were fought for in the 1600s and 1700s in the British Parliament, and we inherited them here in Canada's Parliament. There were literal wars fought over the rights of Parliament to raise and spend money and to hold government to account. In fact, a king was killed because he refused to submit to the will of Parliament. That is how serious a precedent this is, and it is why the Speaker had to make a ruling that Parliament's rights were violated.

Before this matter can go to committee, we have to insist that the RCMP and Parliament have full access to the information we have called for. This issue deserves to be handled with the utmost seriousness, and it needs to be made a priority for Parliament. All opposition parties agree that this demand must be met, except for the Liberals. They do not have a majority, and they do not have the right or the votes to defy the will of the House.

If they want a mandate to defy the will of the House, they need to take it to the Canadian people. That is something they refuse to do, because they know exactly what is going to happen if they ask Canadians whether they support their move to withhold these documents. It is not going to look pretty for them. This is a scandal that reflects on all the Liberal scandals we have seen over the nine years of the NDP-Liberal government.

Why is the government working so hard to hide these documents? When we are talking about $400 million, it is not chump change. As Canadians are facing a cost of living crisis across this country, it is more important than ever to ensure that every single taxpayer dollar is spent rightly and efficiently and has the best possible result for Canadians. Canadians need to hold the government to account in the next election, but as the government refuses to call an election, it is up to Parliament to hold it to account. While the ballot box might be the ultimate judge, the government refuses to let us go to the ballot box, so we are going to keep fighting tooth and nail until it gives Canadians the documents they deserve.

We are in an affordability crisis, and the Liberals are acting in exactly the opposite way that Canadians would expect a government to act, especially a government they only gave a minority and expect to work with other parties in the House, not defy the will of Parliament. Instead of finding ways to serve Canadians, we have to sit here and discuss the government's negligence, its incompetence and its ongoing corruption and refusal to be transparent and hand over documents about its mismanagement.

According to the 2024 HungerCount report, food banks have recorded over two million visits this past March, and more than a quarter of those visits were by children. We are discussing these things today because the government has paralyzed Parliament. It is removing our ability to discuss how to bring results for Canadians. While the government holds Parliament hostage by preventing these documents from going forward, we cannot deal with the very important issues Canadians want to deal with.

Getting back to the issue of SDTC, the industry minister is the main perpetrator of this scandal. He violated a House order. I want to go back to a document the Prime Minister released back in 2015 when the Liberals first formed government. In 2015, the Prime Minister sent each cabinet minister a letter entitled “Open and Accountable Government”. It outlined their responsibilities. I want to quote from the document today:

To be worthy of Canadians’ trust, we must always act with integrity. This is not merely a matter of adopting the right rules, or of ensuring technical compliance with those rules. As Ministers, you and your staff must uphold the highest standards of honesty and impartiality, and both the performance of your official duties and the arrangement of your private affairs should bear the closest public scrutiny. This is an obligation that is not fully discharged by simply acting within the law.

Another section reads, “The trust of Canadians will also rest on the accountability of our government. In our system, the highest manifestation of democratic accountability is the forum of Parliament.” That does not sound like the government of today. It does not think the forum of Parliament is the authority in this country.

The document continues:

You are accountable to Parliament for the exercise of the powers, duties and functions with which you have been entrusted. This requires you to be present in Parliament to answer honestly and accurately about your areas of responsibility, to take corrective action as appropriate to address problems that may arise in your portfolios, to correct any inadvertent errors in answering to Parliament at the earliest opportunity, and to work with parliamentary colleagues of all political persuasions in a respectful and constructive manner.

We have come a long way since 2015. I doubt the government would put out a letter like this to cabinet ministers today with a straight face, because that is not the NDP-Liberal government we have been seeing over the past nine years.

The document further says that ministers must answer Parliament's questions on how “public monies were spent, as well as to account for that use. Whether a Minister has discharged responsibilities appropriately is a matter of political judgment by Parliament. The Prime Minister has the prerogative to reaffirm support for that Minister or to ask for his or her resignation.”

The government is refusing to hand over documents about how $400 million of taxpayer money in the industry minister's portfolio was misdirected to insiders. Some of the insiders are very close to the Liberal government, including the Liberal environment minister, who still holds shares in one of the companies that received at least $10 million through this program. Before he became the environment minister, he was a very effective lobbyist for it. This is an insider thing. This is Liberal cronies at the trough with taxpayer dollars.

“Open and Accountable Government” says, “The Prime Minister has the prerogative to reaffirm support for that Minister or to ask for his or her resignation.” I just want to think about the past history of Liberal ministers who have resigned in the government. It seems like the only ministers whose resignation the Prime Minister has ever asked for or ministers whom he has forced to resign have been the ministers who have stood up to him.

Why is it that only the ministers who stand up to the Prime Minister are asked to resign? It is not the ministers who misplaced $400 million of taxpayer money because they were not holding their board of directors accountable under conflict of interest rules that the ministers fully knew were being violated. In fact, members of the board even raised the conflict of interest rules to the industry minister at the time and were ignored. They knew full well that there were conflicts of interest going on, and they did nothing to prevent it from happening. Now $400 million has been misspent.

Why is the Minister of Industry not being held to account for the mismanagement? It just does not appear that mismanagement or negligence is really a cause for firing in the Liberal government. The only thing that is a cause for that is standing up to the boss.

Parliament is all about standing up to the powerful. It is all about standing up against the sort of obscurity and the sort of opaque government that refuses to hand over documents and be fully truthful and honest about how things went down, who got rich and how they were connected. If one can cover up those things, they can be in cabinet.

If we stand up, let us say if there is a scandal related to a company that is facing prosecution and we are facing pressure from a prime minister and a PMO that are calling for us to intervene in an active investigation by asking a special prosecutor to give a deferred prosecution agreement, that is not allowed. We are out of cabinet. However, if we allow $400 million of taxpayer money to be misspent, there are no consequences.

Has the government met its own standards of integrity and accountability? As outlined in the 2015 document, I think it is very clear to all Canadians that they have not. Canadians do not expect perfection. They know that governments are going to fail and that mistakes are going to be made, but they do expect accountability. They expect openness, honesty and transparency, and they expect that the trust they put in the House and in the government is going to be respected.

I know there are many Liberal MPs in their caucus who agree. I encourage them to have the courage, like the ministers the Prime Minister fired for standing up to him, to stand up to the Prime Minister and to the government for their mismanagement. Unless more members of the House stand up to the Liberal government's mismanagement, its negligence and its corruption, we are not going to get any results until we have an election.

The debate today brings up another issue from the past: the sponsorship scandal, which involved over $40 million and led to the collapse of the Liberal government at the time. The green slush fund is a $400-million scandal. I know inflation is bad under the Liberals but it certainly has not gone up 1000%. The cost of Liberal corruption inflation appears to be about 1000%. It was $40 million in the 90s and 2000s. It is now $400 million today. That is inflation. The Auditor General found that the green slush fund violated conflict of interest laws 186 times.

The Liberals also showed massive indifference during the arrive scam scandal of $56 million and change. Developers who came forward said that they could have done the app for a fraction of the cost, less than a million dollars, yet we had sole-source, backdoor contracts going toward a company that was not actually even making the app. It was all being fed to subcontractors.

This is what we have seen after nine years of the Liberal government: We are not able to do the kind of things that we used to be able to do in this country; we have to contract them out to somebody else, and they cannot even do it. They are a middleman and have to subcontract it to the people who actually do the things.

When there are multiple levels of contracting and subcontracting, the costs keep going up. People know that the Liberal government is not watching the cash register. It does not care how much money is going out. Very quickly, something that should have cost less than a million dollars is costing $56 million. That is the cost of Liberal inflation, Liberal negligence and Liberal mismanagement.

The Prime Minister does not seem to think the rules apply to him. We saw this when he travelled to a private island, despite conflict of interest rules and ethics rules showing that taking private planes and going to islands owned by private interests was wrong. In fact some very interesting revelations have been made years later about how people in the Prime Minister's Office did not even know that the Prime Minister was going to be going. When they did find out, they begged him not to go, but nobody was going to convince the Prime Minister not to go on that bleep trip. I am not going to say their exact words in the House.

That is the Prime Minister's arrogance. He was not going to be dissuaded from something he wanted. People look at leadership and ask what our leader is doing. When they see what the Prime Minister of Canada is doing, it gives them an opportunity, the licence, to do the same.

Therefore it is no surprise that under the Liberal government there have been cabinet ministers who, when they were in the private sector between elections, allegedly claimed that they had indigenous heritage in order to try to score lucrative government contracts. Ministers appointed their friends to boards where they would be in a massive conflict of interest. In the case of SDTC, hundreds of millions of dollars in taxpayer money were being misdirected to companies where there were conflicts of interest. It is because of the Prime Minister's leadership, and it has filtered down into his cabinet.

The fact is that the Prime Minister has set a precedent. He has made it very clear that if someone does what he says; if they cover up; if they deny, deny, deny; and if they keep pushing forward and do whatever he says, they will be protected and will still be in cabinet. However, if someone stands up to what the Prime Minister is doing and says he is wrong, they are out of cabinet. That is what happened with Jody Wilson-Raybould and with Jane Philpott. They stood up to the Prime Minister and suffered the consequences.

The message has been heard loud and clear in the Liberal Party. It is why its members have to ask permission to even stand up at the microphone and speak in their caucus meetings. It is why they have to beg for the opportunity to have a secret ballot in this country. A secret ballot is a fundamental part of our modern democracy, and someone is not even allowed to have it inside the Liberal caucus.

A whistle-blower testified, saying, “I think the current government is more interested in protecting themselves [and letting the public nightmare continue]. They would rather protect wrongdoers and financial mismanagement than have to deal with a situation like SDTC in the public sphere.” They also said, “It's one thing to say nothing has been found as of yet, but that obfuscates the fact that nothing was looked into, for that matter.”

Conservatives, unlike the Liberals, applaud the whistle-blowers who stand up for Canadians. It should be the Liberals going to the department, asking the questions, finding the truth, and saying that this is what happened, here is who is responsible, here is how we are holding them accountable and this is what we are going to do to make sure it never happens again. However, the Liberals are preventing us from doing that. They are withholding the documents and they say that the RCMP says it does not want them.

Even if the RCMP does not want the documents, the Liberals can send them and the RCMP can do whatever it wants with them. It can use the documents or it cannot use them. The fact that the government seems so eager to defy the will of Parliament to prevent the documents from seeing the light of day is really suspicious. Why are the Liberals burning weeks of parliamentary time on the privilege debate, all to prevent the documents from seeing the light of day? The Liberals say the RCMP says it might or might not use them—

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Dan Albas Conservative Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I greatly regret interrupting the proceedings, but I think that if you look for quorum, you will find that we do not have it. We should take care of that.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:40 a.m.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Carol Hughes

I will double-check on that right now.

The hon. parliamentary secretary is also rising on a point of order.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, there were members of the Conservative Party behind the curtains. Do they count as part of quorum?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:40 a.m.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker Carol Hughes

We will check whether there is quorum.

And the count having been taken:

We do have quorum.

The hon. member for Sturgeon River—Parkland has the floor

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:40 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, it is not going to take me much of a minute to outline what Canadians already know, which is that the government is too costly and too corrupt to be trusted to continue governing this country. We need a carbon tax election. We need an election to deal with the government's corruption and waste.

The Liberal government is undermining our democracy. Throughout this scandal, the Conservative Party has fought to uphold our democratic principles in the House, principles like the supremacy of Parliament, but the government is disrespecting Canadians and the House of Commons by refusing to hand over documents that Parliament has demanded.

The Speaker of the House of Commons himself, Parliament's highest authority, who is from the Liberal caucus, has ordered the Prime Minister to hand over these documents, yet the order has been defied. Parties across the House have voted to have these documents. This is not just the Conservatives going after the Liberals; this is what Canadians want to see. They want these documents handed over.

The government has broken its trust with Canadians, and after months, it still refuses to comply with the will of the House. If the government does not want to comply with the will of the House, it is time to take this to a higher power, to the Canadian people, so it can get a mandate. It is not going to get a mandate, so let us go to an election right now.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:40 a.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Madam Speaker, the hon. member started his speech with the words, “After nine years, the evidence is clear”. Let me tell him what evidence is clear after nine years of our government.

We have created 1.1 million jobs since 2015. The inflation rate, at a high of 8.1% in June 2022, is now at 1.6%. The Canadian consumer index is at a 30-month high. We have the lowest deficit-to-GDP ratio among all the G7 countries. We have the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio among all the G7 countries.

I know the hon. member is knowledgeable. I would ask him to show one economic indicator where Canada is not the best among all G7 countries.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, it is mighty generous of the member to ask me for one. I could name several. The GDP per capita in this country has been collapsing under the Liberal government.

It sounds as if the Liberals are saying that Canadians have never had it so good. I said in my speech that two million Canadians are going to the food bank. If that is not an economic indicator, I do not know what is. There are 1,400-plus homeless encampments across this country. The government is failing Canadians.

The Liberals are talking about GDP numbers. An article recently came out that said Canada needs to stop chasing American-style GDP as if GDP was a theme, not an economic indicator. Under the Liberal-NDP government, every single Canadian is worse off, other than Liberal insiders in this scandal, perhaps, who are very well off. The GDP per capita of this country is collapsing under the Liberal government, and our dollar is losing strength. Our dollar underpins our purchasing power, and inflation will rise when the dollar falls because of the Liberal government's policies.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:45 a.m.

Bloc

Maxime Blanchette-Joncas Bloc Rimouski-Neigette—Témiscouata—Les Basques, QC

Madam Speaker, the Conservative Party no longer has confidence in this government. That is good, because the Bloc Québécois does not either. However, we have been debating this question of privilege for three weeks now, and the Conservative Party has not moved a non-confidence motion to bring down the government. The Conservative Party is saying one thing and doing the opposite.

Can my colleague give me a clear answer about when the Conservatives will call for a confidence vote to bring down this government?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

10:45 a.m.

Conservative

Dane Lloyd Conservative Sturgeon River—Parkland, AB

Madam Speaker, as I said in my speech, the rights of Parliament have been violated. That is not just my opinion. That is the opinion of the Speaker of the House of Commons, somebody who was elected by a vote of all the people in this place. He has ruled that the government violated the rights of Parliament by refusing to hand over documents in a fully unredacted form, as Parliament requested, relating to a $400-million green slush fund scandal.

The Conservatives will not stop fighting until we get the documents that Parliament has demanded. We have a right to demand those documents, we have a right to receive those documents and we are not going to stop fighting until we get them.