Debates of Dec. 13th, 2024

Foreign Affairs and International Development

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I will not even try to get inside what is going on in the heads of the government members. It is truly disappointing that no one is allowed to speak on the government side of the House, other than the member for Winnipeg North. Repeatedly he stands up for questions. No one else seems to have a voice on the government side, or if they do have a voice, it is muted, muffled or muzzled by the leader. That is happening day after day.

[Gord Johns, NDP, Courtenay—Alberni, BC]

Mr. Speaker, my frustration is when I hear Conservatives talk about their great reputation when it comes to fisheries and oceans. I will tell members what it is like in my riding. Gail Shea, the former Conservative minister, was given a recommendation by DFO to not open the commercial herring harvest in my riding. The Nuu-chah-nulth were opposed to that. They actually had to go to court, because the herring stocks were at risk, to stop the DFO from allowing the commercial fishery to go ahead.

One thing I can agree with my colleague on, something I think we both share, is the frustration, when committees make recommendations to government to make changes, over how long it takes. We both agree that the owner-operator model, when it comes to the “Sharing Risks and Benefits” report, was tabled two governments—

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, John Nater]

I have to give time to the hon. member for North Okanagan—Shuswap to respond very briefly.

[Mel Arnold, Conservative, North Okanagan—Shuswap, BC]

Mr. Speaker, regarding the reports from the FOPO committee, the member was a member of that committee for a number of years. I enjoyed working with him. It is blatant that the government simply does not respond appropriately.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, John Nater]

The hon. parliamentary secretary is rising on a point of order.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Winnipeg North, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I understand that there have been discussions to allow me to ask for unanimous consent to go to Questions on the Order Paper.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, John Nater]

Is it agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

Questions on the Order Paper

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, the following questions will be answered today: Nos. 3134, 3135, 3138 to 3140 and 3143.

Question No.3134—

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

With regard to legal proceedings involving the First Nations Child and Family Caring Society: (a) what are the details of all cases in which the Attorney General of Canada is the complainant, including the (i) citation, (ii) file number, (iii) date, (iv) court or tribunal, (v) total expenditures; and (b) what are the details of all cases in which the Attorney General of Canada is the respondent, including the (i) citation, (ii) file number, (iii) date, (iv) court or tribunal, (v) total expenditures?

[James Maloney, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to legal proceedings involving the First Nations Child and Family Caring Society, FNCFCS, our electronic system has identified approximately 19 litigation files involving FNCFCS that date back to 2006. This total is composed of various types of legal proceedings before the Federal Court, Federal Court of Appeal and Tribunals, wherein the Attorney General of Canada is an applicant, appellant or respondent, and the FNCFCS is a complainant, applicant or respondent. Of the 19 files identified, nine files were brought by the Attorney General of Canada and 10 were against the Attorney General of Canada. Our electronic system is not able to identify files in which FNCFCS could potentially be an intervenor or a party in another capacity. It is also important to note that it is not possible to search electronically in a way that identifies all litigation files that may involve FNCFCS. A comprehensive search would require a manual exercise, which is not possible in the time allotted.

With respect to the legal costs incurred by the Government of Canada in relation to the identified legal proceedings involving FNCFCS, to the extent that the information that has been requested is or may be protected by any legal privileges, including solicitor-client privilege, the federal Crown asserts those privileges. In this case, it has only waived solicitor-client privilege, and only to the extent of revealing the total legal costs and the approximate number of legal proceedings.

The total legal costs, actual and notional costs, associated with the identified legal proceedings involving FNCFCS, amount to approximately $14,545,000.00, over the past 18 years. The total legal costs are with respect to litigation and litigation support services, which were provided, in these cases, by the Department of Justice. Department of Justice lawyers, notaries and paralegals are salaried public servants and therefore no legal fees are incurred for their services. A “notional amount” can, however, be provided to account for the legal services they provide. The notional amount is calculated by multiplying the total hours recorded in the responsive files for the relevant period by the applicable approved internal legal services hourly rates. Actual costs are composed of file-related legal disbursements paid by the department and then cost-recovered from the client departments or agencies, as well as the costs of legal agents who may be retained by the Minister of Justice to provide litigation services in certain cases. The amount mentioned in this response is based on information currently contained in Department of Justice systems, as of November 18, 2024.

Question No.3135—

[Jamil Jivani, Conservative, Durham, ON]

With regard to legal costs incurred by the government in relation to the invocation of the Emergencies Act in 2022, as well as any subsequent legal action: what is the total amount (i) paid out to date, (ii) scheduled to be paid out, on outside legal counsel, broken down by department, agency or other government entity which encountered the expense?

[James Maloney, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, with respect to legal expenses incurred by the government for outside legal counsel on work related to the invocation of the Emergencies Act in 2022, as well as any subsequent legal action, to the extent that the information that has been requested is or may be protected by any legal privileges, including solicitor-client privilege, the federal Crown asserts those privileges. In this case, it has only waived solicitor-client privilege, and only to the extent of revealing the total legal costs.

The total legal costs associated with expenses incurred by the government for outside legal counsel on work related to the invocation of the Emergencies Act in 2022, as well as any subsequent legal action amounts to $3,900,968.93. This amount includes outside legal fees related to the Public Order Emergency Commission, which had a timeline compressed by statute. The total amount mentioned in this response is based on information contained in Department of Justice systems, as of November 4, 2024.

Question No.3138—

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

With regard to the ArriveCAN application: (a) does the government have a plan to recoup the inappropriate payments made in relation to the development or implementation of ArriveCAN, and, if so, what is it; and (b) how much money has the government recouped to date related to ArriveCAN, in total and broken down by individual or vendor that received money?

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety]

Mr. Speaker, with regard to part (a), the CBSA is currently reviewing all invoices submitted by GC Strategies, Coradix Technology Consulting and Dalian Enterprises Inc. to determine whether any overpayments were issued, and sharing all relevant information with Public Services and Procurement Canada, PSPC, for its own reviews. If inappropriate payments to these three companies are found as a result of the review, the CBSA will use any mechanisms available to recoup the funds, including through litigation or criminal prosecution, if necessary. In addition, any potential wrong doing from public servants will be referred for further investigation.

With regard to part (b), as the review is currently under way, the CBSA has not yet recouped inappropriate payments in relation to the development or implementation of ArriveCAN.

Question No.3139—

[Fraser Tolmie, Conservative, Moose Jaw—Lake Centre—Lanigan, SK]

With regard to the public service: (a) how many individuals were ministerial exempt staff members under the current government prior to being hired as non-partisan public servants; and (b) what is the breakdown of (a) by department or agency where the individual is currently employed?

[Anthony Housefather, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Speaker, under section 35.2 of the Public Service Employment Act, former ministers’ exempt staff who have been employed for at least three successive years as exempt staff in a minister’s office, in the office of the Leader of the Opposition in the Senate, or in the office of the Leader of the Opposition in the House of Commons, may be eligible to participate in internal advertised appointment processes open to all employees of the public service.

There are no provisions in the policies for ministers’ offices pertaining to the obligation for former exempt staff to declare themselves as such. There is an obligation for the minister or their delegate to communicate with the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner of all exempt staff members whose employment has terminated or have left the minister’s office. We would suggest contacting the Office of the Conflict of Interest and Ethics Commissioner as it contacts exempt staff who have been terminated to discuss post-employment obligations as stated in section 3.7 of the policies.

In addition, as per paragraph 3.7.4 of the policies, exempt staff can obtain a mobility provision if they meet the criteria of the Public Service Commission. The mobility provision offers former exempt staff the opportunity to participate in internal advertised appointment processes in the public service. The PSC manages the mobility provisions and may have information on whether an exempt staff who qualified for the mobility provision was hired in the public service.

TBS does not systematically track this information and is therefore unable to provide a complete response to the inquiry.

Question No.3140—

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

With regard to meetings attended by the Prime Minister: what are the dates and locations of any meetings attended by the Prime Minister with the 24 Liberal members of Parliament, or representatives of their group, who signed the letter requesting the Prime Minister to step down?

[Terry Duguid, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister and Special Advisor for Water]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister’s itinerary is available online at: https://www.pm.gc.ca/.

Question No.3143—

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

With regard to successful applicants to Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada's (ISED) Canada Digital Adoption Program between March 1, 2022, and October 25, 2024: (a) how many complaints were received by ISED staff against or by recipients or advisors of the Grow Your Business Online grant, and what was the nature of the complaints; (b) how many recipients of the Grow Your Business Online grant had their funding cancelled after their application was approved; (c) how many recipients of the Grow Your Business Online grant were required to refund the grant to ISED after their application was approved; (d) how many complaints were received by ISED staff against or by recipients or advisors of the Boost Your Business Technology grant, and what was the nature of the complaints; (e) how many recipients of the Boost Your Business Technology grant had their funding cancelled after their application was approved; and (f) how many recipients of the Boost Your Business Technology grant were required to refund the grant to ISED after their application was approved?

[Bryan May, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Small Business and to the Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario]

Mr. Speaker, the Canada digital adoption program, CDAP, was established to help small and medium-sized enterprises, SMEs, realize their full potential by adopting digital technologies. CDAP comprises two separate funding components: grow your business online, GYBO, and boost your business technology, BYBT.

With regard to part (a), 17 complaints were received between March 1, 2022 and October 25, 2024.

The nature of the complaints is as follows: eligibility criteria and application process; not being eligible to apply more than once; stacking rules; application process; application process and delays due to the review of proof of payments; application being rejected; not being eligible to apply more than once; eligibility criteria; not being eligible to apply more than once; problems with vendor; not being eligible to apply more than once; not being eligible to apply more than once; problems with vendor; not being eligible to apply more than once; not being eligible to apply more than once; problems with vendor; and eligibility criteria.

With regard to part (b), Innovation, Science and Economic Development Canada,ISED, does not receive this information.

With regard to part (c), as of the end of Q1, July 2024, eight recipients, out of 20,634 grants that have been paid out, have been required to refund the grant to ISED after their application was approved.

With regard to part (d), out of the 29,103 grants disbursed up to October 25, 2024, boost your business technology received 295 complaints.

Among the complaints regarding digital advisers, approximately 40% involved misrepresentation of the boost your business technology program or errors in advertising campaigns by digital advisers. Another 15% related to the quality of digital adoption plans produced, while an additional 15% were about digital advisers submitting applications on behalf of clients. The remaining complaints covered various issues, including ineligible discounts and invoice discrepancies.

With regard to part (e), currently, about 245 SMEs, representing fewer than 1% of claims, have had their claims rejected.

With regard to part (f), as of October 25, 2024, no businesses have been required to pay back the full grant to ISED after it was received.

Questions Passed as Orders for Returns

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, if the government's responses to Questions Nos. 3133, 3136, 3137, 3141, 3142 and 3144 could be made orders for returns, these returns would be tabled in an electronic format immediately.

[The Acting Speaker, Conservative, John Nater]

Is that agreed?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

Question No.3133—

[Niki Ashton, NDP, Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, MB]

With regard to the Health Facilities Program operated by Indigenous Services Canada, broken down by fiscal year since 2005-06: (a) what is the total amount of funding (i) allocated, (ii) spent, through this program; (b) how much funding has gone to support (i) facility operations and maintenance, (ii) minor capital projects, (iii) major capital projects; and (c) broken down by province or territory, what is the total number of applications (i) received, (ii) approved, (iii) denied?