House of Commons Hansard #380 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was leader.

Topics

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:05 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for speaking French with so much passion. I thank him for reaching out to the Bloc Québécois in these circumstances and for expressing his affection for first nations' members.

I would like to answer his question by giving an example. There is a difference between cultural appropriation, which we must speak out against as we are today, and cultural appreciation. When I went to Wendake, I visited Bastien Industries. Their owner, Jason, gave me a great lesson in this. We can appreciate elements that are indigenous as long as they are truly indigenous, but Jason raised a major issue. If he wants to sell his moccasins in the U.S., he has to provide his Indian status card. If he wants to sell his moccasins in Canada, they do not even ask for it. This means that anyone can sell moccasins, the Hudson's Bays of this world, without them actually being made by indigenous people. It is a major issue.

The recognition of who is indigenous and who is not should be respected, particularly in Canadian government contracts. These situations have been reviewed. The Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, the Public Accounts of Canada and several other bodies are looking into this. Why? The reason is that the government is not verifying who is indigenous and who is not. At some point, we need to start doing that, and it is up to indigenous people to do those checks themselves in a way that respects their traditions.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:05 p.m.

Bloc

Andréanne Larouche Bloc Shefford, QC

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague from Abitibi—Témiscamingue for his speech and for his perspective on this issue as a Quebecker.

In his speech, my colleague clearly explained the problem with people appropriating government programs to get funds when those funds could have been given to people who really need them. I am looking over the report of the Standing Committee on the Status of Women on women's economic empowerment. Obviously, it is not easy for indigenous women and girls to go into business and become entrepreneurs, and they need access to programs.

I am trying to understand the situation. There are people who are appropriating funds using a false identity when those funds could be used to really help indigenous women and girls who have wonderful business ideas but who do not have enough money or support to carry them out.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:05 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Madam Speaker, yes, we must speak out against situations where people get access to funding even though they are not indigenous or, in this case, not an indigenous woman.

My colleague and I attended an event held by the National Aboriginal Capital Corporations Association. This association has created support programs for entrepreneurs and committees where young people and women get to participate in co-development, mentoring or coaching sessions. These are resources “by and for” indigenous people that work.

I urge the government to create more initiatives that invest in development funds “by and for” indigenous people. Resources like these help young entrepreneurs, women and indigenous people gain a deeper understanding of their trade and learn how to use indigenous knowledge to develop and market artisanal and other products that Quebec and Canadian consumers will love.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

December 2nd, 2024 / 5:05 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Madam Speaker, today I rise to speak to a critical topic related not just to this place but also to indigenous people right across the country. I want to mention the fact that I will be splitting my time with the hon. member for Winnipeg Centre, who is very honourable. She is not only a champion for indigenous rights in this place but also a champion for indigenous people right across our planet.

We are prepared to discuss a topic presented to the indigenous and northern affairs committee related to the member for Edmonton Centre. The member for Edmonton Centre had falsely identified himself as indigenous, or at least misled individuals, in particular the Liberal Party of Canada, into believing this. For what purpose would one do this? Why would someone go through the process of undertaking identity fraud, identity theft, and taking from a people what is truly theirs and more? Actually, when I mentioned this story to my sister, she said something really interesting. She said, “Oh, great, someone wants to identify as indigenous. That is fantastic. They should also face the consequences we do.” Wow, members can imagine how my sister, a visible woman of colour, was not able to overcome the serious barriers that were present to her as a young person when trying to enter into business or jobs, when trying to enter into a workplace where she was seen as a whole person. The contrast that we are seeing today has been extraordinarily exerted in the past few years. Buffy Sainte-Marie is an example of what is a really real and unfortunate circumstance facing Canadians. This example was a wake-up call to Canadians, to each and every one of us.

This kind of pervasive fraud is often not prosecuted, not investigated. This raises the question of why a person does it, as well as why we do not investigate it. Canada had 1,100 companies that were just deregistered; they have been delisted from the federal indigenous procurement registry, something that was mentioned by the indigenous services minister a few weeks ago. Wow, 1,100 companies were pre-approved as indigenous for the purpose of procurement in the Government of Canada's indigenous procurement strategy. It is shameful that we were unable to designate and delist those companies beforehand. This policy has been in place since the nineties. My God, what a failure it is of both Conservative and Liberal governments that they had no care or concern about this issue for as long as this policy has been in existence.

Worse yet, the Conservatives now cry wolf as if they were big stalwarts or big champions of indigenous rights, indigenous identity, when they were the government in charge at the time this program had been operating. The Liberals inherited this problem, and they kept it. It is a matter of convenience, a marriage of convenience perhaps. This has played out in Canada's history for the better part of 157 years, often to the detriment of indigenous people.

There are consequences to this kind of misbehaviour, these kinds of crimes. We have seen in Nunavut, for example, a sentence of three years in prison in a case where two young people had taken indigenous identity, Inuit identity, for the purposes of educational funding. It is shameful. Now we see, in this great, august chamber, individuals who are unable to tell us who they truly are; they stand very proudly and profess who they are, without any ability to understand that there are qualifiers to understanding that. There are frameworks.

There are actually even court cases in Canada that indigenous people had to overcome to even see their own people identified and recognized. Regina v. Van der Peet, for example, is a first nations Supreme Court case that delineated who was first nations for the purpose of commercial rights. Indigenous Métis people have had to, still today, since 2003, in the Powley case, decide who is indigenous. In those cases, the court was deciding. How shameful is it that the government was so unable to create a nation-to-nation, government-to-government relationship with those it literally legislated for when it was part of their benefit? At the time of the Indian Act, for example, the government knew who was indigenous. It knew who was indigenous for the purposes of residential school or the sixties scoop. It knew who was indigenous when it came to paying out treaty breaches, massive breaches in the agreements made by our ancestors.

Government members knew who was indigenous then, but now, when they happen to be sitting in cabinet, all of a sudden, they do not. Holy smokes, they could not even ask the guy. They are going to put him in their indigenous caucus. They are going to label it as an indigenous caucus, and they will call it the “fantastic eleven”. Today, we have questions about those individuals. We have questions about those who pose as indigenous for prestige, reputation or access to funding. The reason this is an important investigation to undertake is that the pain is felt deeply.

I am sure some would argue, particularly the Liberals, that the real victim here is the member for Edmonton Centre. However, the real victims are indigenous people, indigenous businesses and indigenous communities. They have done the hard work of organizing their community, creating a benefit-impact study, talking to the community members, understanding what they can do as a community and creating employment, only to be met with a rigged system in Ottawa created by Liberals and Conservatives.

The Liberals and Conservatives like to talk a big game about how they are very different parties, but they have always benefited from being on the same side of the coin. When one does something bad, the other one is elected and then does the bad thing again. Always, over and over, this tradition exists in Canada. There are rights.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:10 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:10 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Madam Speaker, a Liberal member says to join them. Who would join one of the most corrupt people ever elected in this country? These are the same people who legislated indigenous people having no water, and they are heckling an indigenous member now. That is how disturbed they are by their own record.

Now, with goodness and decency, the member for Winnipeg South is telling them, “We are going to lose on this, so we had better not talk about it.” I appreciate that because it is true. The Liberals have no clue how to engage indigenous people, unless a court is telling them how to do it. That is a true fact. I beg my Liberal colleagues to look at that. Every single agreement comes through the narrow lens of the law. The government would rather debate who has rights in a matter of law, in a court of law, than to acknowledge that indigenous people are truly people who need recognition and rights in this place. That is the real shame of all this.

I have spoken to the government many times about this pervasive issue. The Minister of Indigenous Services and the Minister of Crown-Indigenous Relations admit that Canada's system is like this. They have to go to the courts, and then we will come to them; that is just the process. We have to prove to them that we have rights. No. I say Canada needs to prove to me that it has rights. It needs to prove to indigenous people why it thinks its laws are superficial to the indigenous natural law that exists in this place.

This is how far away we have come from the true necessary pieces of this discussion. We fail to see a nation-to-nation relationship when we always come at it from this domestic point of view, in which these nations lack the quality of sovereignty. They lack the quality of nationhood and of being able to assert self-determination for themselves. This kind of paternalism is sick, and it is over. This, today, is a warning. This discussion is a warning to pretendians everywhere. If they attempt to steal indigenous people's identity for the purpose of reputation or funding, we will find them. We will take from them everything they have sought to take from indigenous people.

I say to indigenous people, who have suffered from these very obvious and long-standing cases of discrimination, that a better future is possible. A better future is near us. We have young people who are engaged in these systems right now; they are innovating, learning their language, coming back to the land and doing the hard work of reconnecting with who they really are. That is a blessing.

We have a great blessing just ahead of us. It is the generation to come right after me. Those young indigenous people are fierce. They are warriors; they are strong. I am so deeply proud of them. I cannot wait until they fill this chamber with their voices, with their stories, and bring true justice and true accountability to this country. We need to see that future. The future is promising. The future is with our indigenous youth; it will be one where who we are, our dignity and our stories are truly met. This beautiful planet will then have an opportunity to share with all of us the opportunities that I hope indigenous people will make present for everyone.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:15 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I would like to highlight something I highlighted earlier in the discussion, and that is the Red River Métis treaty. It is an agreement that was achieved and a historic event for the Manitoba Métis government. We are talking about well over 150 years.

Through the leadership of President Chartrand and his cabinet, and ongoing discussions with this government, we have the first-ever Métis treaty. I see that as a very strong positive. As for the many calls to action that the federal government is responsible for, well over 80% are well under way and many of them have actually been done. This is a government that has invested in and worked directly with indigenous communities across this country.

Could the member cite a government that has done as much as this government has in raising the profile of this important issue?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Madam Speaker, the greatest governments to ever help indigenous people are our own people's governments. I have served my own people's government. I served as the national director for the Métis Settlements General Council.

The member cites a historic treaty that was just signed. In my speech, if he had listened, I said every single agreement that reaches a Liberal's desk is one that has been forced down their throat by the court. The MMF decision was one. People can open their phones, google it and look at it. It is the 2013 Supreme Court case of Manitoba Métis Federation v. Canada, citing Canada as in breach of the Manitoba Act, 1870, which my ancestors died for. They paid the ultimate price.

The member is now lecturing me, over 100 years later, as a descendant of those people, those brave men who died for that province. For him to then tell me it was not a court case, I challenge him to read the MMF v. Canada Supreme Court case.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Madam Speaker, this is super disappointing. When the Liberal government got elected, it said the nation—

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:20 p.m.

Some hon. members

Oh, oh!

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:20 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Alexandra Mendes

I am sorry to interrupt the hon. member. Can we allow the hon. member who is trying to ask a question to be heard? Order.

The hon. member for Sarnia—Lambton has the floor.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:20 p.m.

Conservative

Marilyn Gladu Conservative Sarnia—Lambton, ON

Thank you, Madam Speaker. As I was saying, it is super disappointing to see that the Liberal government, which said the nation-to-nation relationship was the most important priority, has not solved the boil water advisories. We see very little progress on the truth and reconciliation recommendations the Stephen Harper government recommended. We see hardly any action on murdered and missing aboriginal women. We now have criminal charges against ministers of the Crown and ministers of the Crown are misrepresenting things.

Can the member opposite comment on his disappointment in these events?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:20 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Madam Speaker, I am disappointed. I am disappointed by consecutive Liberal and Conservative governments that always use indigenous people as a gambling chip. Whether it is Conservatives today using indigenous people as a gambling chip to “own the libs” or the Liberals consistently neglecting their responsibility for indigenous people, both are immense travesties in this place.

When it comes to clean water, which the member mentioned, I want to correct the record on the history of clean water. The reason we are debating clean water legislation today is that the Conservative government of the past litigated in court and it was deemed inappropriate. It was deemed illegal. The Conservatives were attempting to take control over indigenous people's water and the court said no way. Now the Liberals are coming with another inferior piece of legislation that is almost identical to the Conservatives' piece of legislation. That is the problem that exists when it comes to clean water.

When it comes to truth and reconciliation, we witnessed the largest indigenous protest in Canada's history, called Idle No More, to kick Stephen Harper to the curb. Indigenous people did that. We stood on our rights. We stood on the shoulders of giants who led the way, our ancestors in particular. That will never allow us to see dignity or pride ever again.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:20 p.m.

Bloc

Sébastien Lemire Bloc Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC

Madam Speaker, I would like to commend my colleague for his speech and for the energy he invests in fighting for these issues. Unfortunately, a number of House of Commons committees have had to study issues involving indigenous funding and identity theft.

Why do I say unfortunately? I say it because these problems are recurrent. They have been examined by the Standing Committee on Public Accounts and the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates, where the member has been especially active.

I would like my colleague to elaborate on the general problem of identity theft, given that contracts intended for genuine indigenous people have been awarded to the wrong people.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Blake Desjarlais NDP Edmonton Griesbach, AB

Madam Speaker, there are three requirements under law in this country that must be observed in the application, support or benefit. It is a three-point test. I will make it easy for everybody. I cannot do it in slogan format for my Conservative colleagues, but I will try my best.

One, someone must self-identify as an indigenous person. I, the member for Edmonton Griesbach, identifies as Métis. A person needs to pass a second test, which is that they must have a historical connection to that community. My ancestors, and we have a big fancy sheet that shows where we are from, have a historical connection to that same nation. The third test, which very few people can pass, is that the modern iteration of that community accepts them. I am from the Fishing Lake Métis Settlement, and that Métis settlement accepts me as a member. Those three qualifiers together, under the Supreme Court of Canada decision known as Powley, give that ability to understand.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Madam Speaker, I have to say I am not pleased to rise today to participate in a debate on a concurrence motion about the member for Edmonton Centre usurping, appropriating, indigenous identity for financial benefit.

What has been most disturbing is that, while my good colleague, an expert on Métis rights, stood here just now talking about Métis rights, the member for Kingston and the Islands felt it appropriate to heckle him. It is the height of white supremacy, which we regularly see in the House, and I can say that—

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Alexandra Mendes

The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands is rising on a point of order.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Mark Gerretsen Liberal Kingston and the Islands, ON

Madam Speaker, I almost feel as though this is to entice a reaction out of me. I did not heckle anybody. The member from Winnipeg and I were just having a conversation. I did not even raise my voice.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

An hon. member

Debate.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Alexandra Mendes

Yes, that may be debate or a clarification, but we will let the hon. member for Winnipeg Centre pursue her speech.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

NDP

Leah Gazan NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB

Madam Speaker, the member for Kingston and the Islands, again, when we are talking about the usurping of indigenous voices and identity, what does he do? He decides to do a point of order when an indigenous woman is talking, which is the height, again, of white supremacy.

Then the member for Winnipeg North, the Liberal from Winnipeg North—

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Alexandra Mendes

The hon. parliamentary secretary is rising on a point of order.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Madam Speaker, I am concerned that the member is trying to intentionally label members of the government. She stands up on many points of order to interrupt other individuals. To try to give any sort of false impression that this is something that is anti-indigenous is just wrong and unethical.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès) Alexandra Mendes

The hon. member for Hamilton Centre is rising on the same point of order.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

5:25 p.m.

An hon. member

Oh, oh!