Debates of Dec. 3rd, 2024

Alleged Intimidation during Proceedings of the House

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Order. Someone has the floor, and it is very inappropriate for others to be yelling out. There may be all kinds of interpretations, but the hon. member can just put his case forward. I think it is very difficult to interpret what somebody else was actually doing. Again, I ask the hon. member to please wrap it up.

The official opposition House leader.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Madam Speaker, I agree with you, but we find ourselves in this position because that is exactly what the NDP members have done with these outrageous and baseless accusations. I think it is only fair and just that, after making these kinds of allegations, the official opposition be allowed to not only defend ourselves and our integrity, but also put the actual facts of the matter before the Chair if the Chair is going to rule on this.

My NDP counterpart also claimed that pages were withdrawn from the opposition lobby because of what he alleged was the conduct of Conservative MPs. I was briefed by a representative of the House administration relating to the page program and was informed that the baseline issue that ultimately led to a decision being made happened earlier and was completely unrelated to behaviour in the lobby. It was an administrative issue within the page program itself.

I can also say that during the evening there were requests from one side to the other, from the NDP lobby, to turn the volume down on the television that was on. It is a request that was accommodated. This is in stark contrast to the actions of NDP members that evening.

I would also point out that I have been in this place a long time, and on both sides of the House. I have been in a situation where I have shared opposition lobbies with NDP members. They are often gathered together, having a jovial time, just as Conservatives were that evening. I have heard them playing guitars and leading each other in songs. That happens from time to time on late-night sittings. Both parties usually just accommodate each other when they are doing that. We have to share the same space. We try to stay out of each other's way.

This all has come as a complete shock to Conservative staff and Conservative MPs who viewed the events of that evening as exactly that. Our MPs in our corner of the lobby enjoying the evening, knowing that we were about to come in and vote on a confidence matter, having a playful time in the House of Commons, chirping the NDP members who were voting on another side of the issue, which they do all the time. They are now just being selectively sanctimonious.

That being said, let me talk a bit about the NDP member's conduct in the House. We saw unhinged conduct directed at the Conservative lobby coordinator by the NDP member for Vancouver East. Not once, but on two occasions on Thursday night, she used profane language and likened him to a certain body part. On the second occasion, an NDP staffer had to physically come between her and the staffer in question, much like how the Deputy Sergeant-at-Arms had to direct the NDP deputy House leader away from the Conservatives she was harassing, as seen on the video that hundreds of thousands of Canadians have witnessed so far.

That interaction between the NDP member and the Conservative staff was an exercise of a position of power, to assert authority over and to bully an employee. There are witnesses to this conduct, as well as, I understand, a video, which I expect will be viewed in other forums.

Earlier in the evening, the hon. Conservative member for St. Albert—Edmonton was attempting to record a message for his constituents and Canadians about his work as our democratic reform shadow minister on Bill C-65, which proposes to delay the fixed-date election by a week in order to secure the pensions of 28 Liberal and NDP MPs.

[An hon. member]

Debate.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Let me get to the part that is relevant.

Madam Speaker, while attempting to record this video, the member for Edmonton Griesbach engaged in disruptive, harassing, obnoxious and nuisance behaviour directed toward my colleague and his work, trying to derail his ability to record the video. At the end of the night, another NDP MP delivered a bizarre and passive-aggressive rant to a second member of the Conservative staff for the simple courtesy of holding a door, which otherwise would have automatically closed in her face. It has not stopped there.

Yesterday, in the lobby, the former NDP whip gratuitously addressed a gross slur to my chief of staff. I raise this just as another example of the bizarre, weird and unhinged pattern of behaviour that NDP members of Parliament are exhibiting around the Parliamentary precinct. If we are going to ask why pages were asked to leave the lobby, let us look at the behaviour of the NDP MPs contributing to that feeling they might have had in their workspace.

What is unusual here is that the NDP deputy House leader, whose conduct Thursday night was shameful, as seen on ParlVU and in other videos published on social media, was trying to lead the charge for parliamentary civility and decorum.

In June, she wrote to all MPs, inviting us to sign a so-called pledge with four branches. Firstly, she wanted MPs to pledge to “Support each other and call out abuse and harassment when we see it or experience it.” That is exactly what we are doing now about the excessive toxic behaviour on open display by New Democrats. Secondly, MPs were asked to pledge to “Call on all our allies to stand with us to support women in office and call out all forms of abuse”—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member is going on about other stuff that is not related to the matter at hand or to the situation that happened. It is more debate. Before it can be a debate, the decision has to be made by the Speaker on it. I would just ask if the hon. member has any additional information he would like to put on record that has to do with that particular evening that has not already been raised in the House.

The hon. official opposition House leader.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Madam Speaker, I will sum up by saying the New Democrats have made baseless and false accusations that damage the reputations of individual members of Parliament. The old saying that a lie gets halfway around the world before the truth gets its pants on is very appropriate here because they can make these allegations and, just by defending ourselves, we are contributing to the propagation of the falsehood. That puts all members in a very risky situation. Any one of us could get up at any time and make false accusations about who they saw in the parliamentary dining room bar and what one member said or did and not be held to account because the effect of the accusation plants the seed in people's minds.

Secondly, the behaviour by individual NDP MPs themselves was the cause for the breakdown of order in the House. The way they treated the Speaker, someone they have voted confidence in before, is absolutely shameful. They marched up the aisle, waving and hurling insults and abuse. It is clear that if anybody's privileges have been infringed, it is the Conservative MPs who are the subject of baseless allegations. If anybody's workplace was made toxic by behaviour, it was Conservative staff in the lobby because of NDP actions.

The proper thing to resolve this right now is for the New Democrats to withdraw their question of privilege, apologize to the Speaker for their behaviour, apologize to the Conservative MPs whose reputations they have slandered and put this matter to rest.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, all I can say to the official—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Order. This is exactly what we have been seeing over and over again when someone else has the floor.

The hon. member rose to speak on the question of privilege. I told him he had to wait until the previous speaker was done. I would ask members to please be respectful. Let us hear what the hon. member has to say so we can go on with the business of the day.

The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, I was going to say that my colleague and friend has a great future as a fiction writer ahead of him once he retires from politics. He did not address the question of privilege—

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Members have indicated falsehoods and that sort of thing. I would hope that all members are providing feedback, as they see it, but not implicating others. It is incumbent upon members in this House to be respectful of each other. They can put forward views of what may have transpired and the decision will be made by the Speaker.

At this point in time, I am going to allow the hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby to provide any other information he wishes to add to the question of privilege now before the House. Any other debate will be put aside until it is decided whether the question of privilege is a prima facie case.

The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

[Peter Julian, NDP, New Westminster—Burnaby, BC]

Madam Speaker, I have three points to make.

First, the official opposition House leader rose on a point of order. He did not address the question of privilege. I think that is very relevant to the considerations of the Speaker.

Second, the Speaker apologized for his failure to recognize the member for London—Fanshawe, which is important. The official opposition House leader knows this, and that error and omission is part of his torquing of this question of privilege.

Third and finally, I am glad that Conservatives have finally recognized that the pages had to withdraw from the opposition lobby for safety reasons. That acknowledgement is important for the Speaker to consider on this question of privilege moving forward.

I will not take any more time and I certainly will not get into debate. I thank the Speaker for a full consideration of this question of privilege.

[Michelle Ferreri, Conservative, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Madam Speaker, while my hon. colleague was speaking about the very thing that I too witnessed on Thursday while voting, which was the member for London—Fanshawe storming through this House and aggressively accosting many of the members, in the lobby, the member for London—Fanshawe just made a knifing motion toward Conservative staff, like she was going to knife us. I just wanted to—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The Speaker generally does not rule on what happens in the lobbies, and there are better ways to address those issues. As I indicated, it is best just to bring forward the issues that happened in the House of Commons, and then we will be able to better determine whether or not a prima facie case has been made.

The hon. member for Vancouver East is rising on the same question of privilege.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Speaker, I am compelled to rise to share this additional information with you. With respect to the day of the vote, what happened was that my colleague, the member for London—Fanshawe, walked up to the Speaker to register her concern for not being recognized and not being able to do her job because of the jeering and the loud noises that were coming from the Conservatives side.

This was orchestrated and premeditated to violate the rules of the House so that NDP members, when they got up to vote, could not hear their names being called. I could not hear my name being called or whether my vote has been registered. I know that was also the case for my NDP colleagues who were in the House that same day. As a result, my colleague, the member for London—Fanshawe, was not able to do her job.

Afterwards, in reference to the filming that occurred, it is true that there were, in total, five members in the House on the NDP side, and some of us did walk up to support my colleague, the member for London—Fanshawe. We walked up there to support her because there were over a hundred Conservative members on that side jeering at her, calling her pathetic and shaming her.

As we were sitting here watching this, we thought we should go and stand with her. Yes, I did make a comment about the Conservatives deliberately violating the rules of the House concerning the standing order because they were instructed by their whip staff to interrupt the proceedings of the House during the voting process when the NDP members got up to vote. This is the sum of what had occurred—

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Excuse me, the hon. member does not have the floor. He should be very respectful in the House and allow others to speak.

This is becoming additional information during a debate—

[An hon. member]

Oh, oh!

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

Excuse me, but if the hon. member does not want to respect what the Chair has ordered, then I would ask him to step out.

I will ask the hon. member for Vancouver East to wrap it up because, from what I can gather, this is additional information.

Concerning the hon. member, I appreciate that he has stepped out. It looks like he is having a hard time controlling himself.

The hon. member for Vancouver East has the floor.

[Jenny Kwan, NDP, Vancouver East, BC]

Madam Speaker, the member who just walked out of the House, the member you asked to respect the rules of the House, just made a gesture towards me in a threatening way. I want to note that so it is on the record.

I will just close with what happened on that night. When I was in the lobby, I thought the lobby smelled like a brewery. That is a fact. I hope the truth will prevail because I know there is a lot of spinning and twisting of the facts going on. As is always the case, the bullies always use an aggressive offence as a defence, and that is what we are seeing from the Conservative side.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I appreciate all of the interventions. Some of the testimonials provided for this question of privilege were more in the area of debate. I thank members for their additional information. We will take this into consideration as the deliberation is being made.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Madam Speaker, on the same question of privilege, I will add my voice as a person who was standing right here, which as you can see, is just eight seats away from where—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

As the member is adding her voice, I want to make sure that she will provide additional information and not a repeat of what has already been said.