Debates of Feb. 1st, 2024

Opposition Motion—Carbon Tax

[Ziad Aboultaif, Conservative, Edmonton Manning, AB]

Madam Speaker, my question for the hon. member is simple and straightforward. All indications tell us that the carbon tax is not working, and it is not reducing emissions. That is a very fundamental reason to scrap the tax and axe it.

Does he believe the carbon tax is working?

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Madam Speaker, it is really nice to see the hon. member for Edmonton Manning. He is a gentleman, and I consider him a dear friend in this House.

I will say this: When we put forward a full plan to fight climate change, whether it is with innovation or putting a price on carbon, the parts are all interlinked. They all work together to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. We are leading the way with strong economic policies and internalizing the cost of an externality, according to Coase's theorem, if I go back to my graduate days in economics at university. That is exactly what we are doing. That is exactly what we will continue to do.

It is always great to see the hon. member for Edmonton Manning.

[Sylvie Bérubé, Bloc, Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou, QC]

Madam Speaker, we know full well that the Liberal government and the Conservatives get along just fine when it comes to doling out billions of dollars and tax breaks to Canadian oil companies. We know that the Minister of the Environment said that this government had abolished subsidies when in fact they never were abolished. The government nationalized the Trans Mountain pipeline, which has cost $30.9 billion to expand. Most of that cost will be passed on to taxpayers.

I would like the member to explain to me what the government is going to do to improve the environment and the cost of living.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Madam Speaker, first, let me say that I support the oil sector across the country.

I fully support the energy sector here in Canada and the over 800,000 workers who work in the sector. They are and will continue to be a crucial part of our economy as the experts of oil and gas, natural gas and so forth. The usage of these fuels will be critical for our economy for years to come, as the world adopts new sources of energy and electricity. It is very important.

On the affordability front, the $10 day care and other benefits for Canadians, such as the child care benefit, are long-lasting measures that are going to be in place well after all of us have gone on to retirement in some shape or form. They will continue to benefit Canadians from coast to coast to coast.

[Lisa Marie Barron, NDP, Nanaimo—Ladysmith, BC]

Madam Speaker, I had an important question, but then I got caught up, when the member was talking about how much he loved capitalism, in reflecting on the fact that we are here talking about solutions around the climate crisis. It is a little concerning to me that, when we are talking about a system that focuses on growth and profit at the expense of everything else, we are continuing to promote the reproduction of the system that is creating the climate crisis that we are in. I could go down a whole rabbit hole on that one.

I wanted to ask about the greener homes grant. My colleague was talking about the emissions coming from residential buildings. Will there be further investment into the greener homes grant? What will be happening to ensure accessibility of this funding? We know that there were huge issues with people being unable to access the funds. Having to pay ahead, for example, is a barrier for people living on low incomes.

Can you please tell me what the Liberals are committed to when ensuring that everybody has access—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

I will not be able to tell the hon. member anything.

The hon. member for Vaughan—Woodbridge.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Madam Speaker, I thank the member from Vancouver Island for their question.

As we know in this world that we live in, and from economic history and world history, capitalism works. It has lifted billions of people out of poverty and raised standards of living for people across this world on any measure. We know it is a system we are blessed to have. Communism, socialism and all the other forms people want to think and talk about have failed; look at other countries. I do not need to say more.

On the greener homes grant, it is imperative, as a government, that we continue to support Canadians, particularly low- and middle-income Canadians and folks who are on heating sources such as oil. I remember growing up in Prince Rupert, British Columbia. My grandmother's house had an oil tank in the back. We got rid of it in the 1970s and 1980s, but we need to get rid of them all and put heat pumps in and—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

We have to resume debate.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Madam Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my hon. colleague, the member for Kootenay—Columbia, which is such a pleasure. British Columbia will always have a dear spot in my heart because I lived there myself.

On behalf of the great people of Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame who have entrusted me to come here and bring their thoughts to this place, I stand today to beg the Liberal-NDP coalition to not increase the carbon tax by 23% on April 1.

After eight long years of the Liberal government, people of Newfoundland and Labrador are tired. They say it is has gone past its expiry date. People are hurting; they have had enough, yet the Prime Minister jets off to the Caribbean and has an $89,000 vacation passed on to him for free by one of his rich friends. However, that is not the sad part. While he is taxing Canadians with the carbon tax to slow us down on our burning of fossil fuels, in one week he puts 100 tonnes of emissions into the atmosphere, while the average Canadian puts out just 15 tonnes of emissions per year.

People are hurting. The inflationary carbon tax hits the farmers who grow the food, the truckers who truck the food, the grocers who sell the food and the consumers who simply drive to the grocery store to buy the food. This is why the Conservative Party put forward Bill C-234, which would take the tax off farmers who grow the food.

We have heard some rhetoric from the NDP-Liberal coalition. My hon. colleague for St. John's South—Mount Pearl, with his famous words last year, said he was sick and tired of people's talking about a cold winter and what they are doing. Then there is my colleague, the member for Avalon, who sometimes does not know whether he is coming or going when it comes to the carbon tax. We will see, I guess, where he stands on Monday. We hope that he does not just turn into a quicker flipper-flopper-upper and that he hangs in there and supports his constituents. I know where I stand; I stand with the people.

Last week, the CBC interviewed me and wanted some comments about the statement from my colleague, the member for Avalon, about the desire for a leadership review. I told them that I understood the member's frustration after seeing his leader being involved in the Aga Khan scandal, SNC Lavalin and the WE scandal. After all, his leader is the son of the guy who brought home the Constitution. It is unbelievable to see the Prime Minister continuously working against the Constitution, which his dad was so proud of. For example, there was the unconstitutional use of the Emergencies Act, the single-use plastics ban, the oil and gas emissions cap, the unconstitutional Bill C-69, the environmental impact assessment bill. Now we are being face with Bill C-49 in committee, which references, 73 times, the unconstitutional Bill C-69.

The Liberals want to stop the production of oil off Newfoundland and Labrador, and in fact in all of Canada. They want to tax us and surrender the production of our clean, environmentally soundly produced oil with good labour standards and turn that production over to dictators with bad human rights records who produce dirty oil, under no environmental regulations for the most part.

If the NDP-Liberal coalition wanted to do something about cutting world emissions, it would be turning its attention to coal. In 2023, coal usage in the world set a record. Next year, it is going to go to new record heights.

Meanwhile, Canadians are being punished with a carbon tax. Coal produces 40% of the world's emissions. Natural gas produces half of the emissions coal does. The Chancellor of Germany came last year, begging us to supply Germany with liquefied natural gas to get it off dictator Putin's natural gas and to support the people of Ukraine. The Prime Minister said there was no business case for producing liquefied natural gas on Canada's east coast. Newfoundland and Labrador is the closest point to Europe in North America. We have trillions of cubic feet of natural gas sitting there, being reinjected, which we could bring ashore—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

Can I interrupt the hon. member, please? There is a lot of noise in the courtyard.

The hon. member.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Madam Speaker, what is Germany doing right now? It is building three new ports to take liquefied natural gas, predominantly from the U.S., which last year exported 90 million tonnes of liquefied natural gas.

Newfoundland and Labrador is half the distance to Europe as the Gulf of Mexico is. Is that not something? Another country, Argentina, is right now building a $10-billion LNG production facility. There is nowhere in the world farther from Europe than Argentina is. Maybe the South Pole is.

People might ask what the big deal is. Why can we not produce more liquefied natural gas, and use technology, not taxes, to get the world's emissions down? We do not understand it. It is mind boggling for the people of Newfoundland and Labrador, Saskatchewan and Alberta, and for all those across this great country of Canada who understand the dilemma the world is facing. However, we have a big part of the solution right here in Canada. We can export to China and to Japan from British Columbia, which is the closest point in North America to Asia.

The big question is how, on Monday, the member for Labrador, the member for Long Range Mountains, the member for Bonavista—Burin—Trinity, the member for St. John's South—Mount Pearl and the member for St. John's East will vote. I think I know how the member for St. John's South—Mount Pearl will vote.

About the member for Avalon, I am not so sure. I see him over there contemplating, and I think he is going to vote with us. He is a great fellow; all in all, I really have a soft spot in my heart for him, but we are taking bets on the member for Avalon. In the last two votes, one time he voted for axing the tax and the next time he voted against it. What will it be this time? I do not know. It is 50/50, and two out of three is not bad. I know he is listening. Two Out of Three Ain't Bad is a famous song by Meat Loaf. We will see how he goes.

I will tell the House one thing for sure: I am going to vote to stop the tax increase on April 1. There is another thing that is certain: When Conservatives are elected, we will axe the tax, build the homes, fix the budget and stop the crime. Let us bring it home.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, we just witnessed the four bumper stickers in the last five seconds of the member's comments.

It is interesting that he makes reference to flip-flopping. If we want to talk about a fish out of water, we can take a look at what the Conservative Party's approach has been with the price on pollution, as it has flip-flopped over the last number of years, dating all the way back to 2008, when 19 Conservative MPs who still sit in the House, including the leader of the Conservative Party, said they supported a price on pollution. However, that does not comply with the need for the bumper sticker, I guess.

A question for the member is this: Why is the Conservative Party being so selective in what it is telling Canadians, when there is a carbon rebate that more than compensates for the so-called carbon tax for more than 80% of the constituents I represent and in fact for 80% of Canadians as a whole? Why is the Conservative Party manipulating Canadians?

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Madam Speaker, the member stands here constantly flapping his gums and contradicting the Parliamentary Budget Officer, who said that 60% of Canadians are going to be worse off. The government has had eight years and is putting a carbon tax on Canadians with no results.

Our message is straight: We are going to axe the tax, and bring it home.

[Caroline Desbiens, Bloc, Beauport—Côte-de-Beaupré—Île d’Orléans—Charlevoix, QC]

Madam Speaker, I commend my colleague from Newfoundland for his passion. I serve with him on the Standing Committee on Fisheries and Oceans. We heard a very strong plea in favour of oil and oil-related prosperity.

Apparently, we need to stop putting a price on carbon. We need to invest in oil and create greenhouse gases. That will give us plenty of money to clean up the mess caused by climate change, so that is great. I would like my colleague to tell me what his arguments will be when people become victims of climate change. More and more people are becoming victims of climate change right now.

What do the Conservatives have to say to the people of Baie‑Saint‑Paul who are still waiting to find out whether their homes can be salvaged after the flooding this summer?

Climate change is going to continue to happen. What does my colleague have to say to the victims? Will the oil industry generate enough money to support all the victims of climate change?

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Madam Speaker, in my speech I laid out pretty clearly that coal usage last year was at an all-time high. It is going to be at another high next year. A new record is going to be set in 2024 and in 2025. Therefore, while the people of la belle province are being hammered by carbon tax 2, emissions continue to skyrocket.

We want to produce natural gas and supply it to China, India and Germany, which brought back online new coal plants last year, to bring down coal emissions.

We need technology, not taxes. Let us bring it home.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Madam Speaker, there are thousands of jobs being created offshore in the United States because of Biden's investments into clean energy.

The member said that the Premier of Newfoundland is just not very bright and has somehow been hoodwinked by the nasty Liberals because he wanted to create clean energy jobs in Newfoundland. He also said that the Premier of Nova Scotia got the wool pulled over his eyes. My family is from Nova Scotia, and they are not dummies there. However, when they want to create thousands of offshore jobs, Conservatives, including the member, have to vote against it because their only plan is to burn the planet. He is outraged that the leaders of Nova Scotia and Newfoundland are pushing for a clean energy Atlantic accord. He is going to vote against it. He is going to tell his people he is going to vote against those jobs and that his own premier is some kind of dummy for supporting jobs. I think he should look in the mirror because he has it all flipped.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Madam Speaker, the people of Timmins are just disgusted with their MP. They are being carbon taxed to death. The people of the member's riding have to put up with the cold and their energy bills this winter, as well as the cost of food, which is being driven by the carbon tax. They cannot stand this—

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès), Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

Resuming debate, the hon. member for Kootenay—Columbia.

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Madam Speaker, right now every generation is giving up the dream, the dream of owning a home, the dream of warm holidays, the dream of a secure retirement, the dream of not living paycheque to paycheque and the dream of being able to afford heat and groceries for their family.

The actions of the Liberal-NDP coalition with this carbon tax has caused significant harm to Canadian farmers and consumers alike. The government has been making every effort to prevent farmers from receiving a carbon tax exemption for drying grain, barn heating and other farm operations, as well as hard-working Canadians from heating their homes. A carbon tax on all forms of home heating has already been voted down by the Liberal-Bloc coalition, and the Liberals and NDP still plan to quadruple the carbon tax on farmers. This increase of 23% will only lead to a further increase in the cost of food for Canadians.

It is clear that taxing the farmers who grow the food, as well as the truckers who transport it, will inevitably lead to higher prices for consumers. The Liberal-NDP coalition's actions have completely left Canadians out in the cold. It is critical that steps are taken to support our farmers and ensure affordable food and heat for all Canadians.

I am not sure if the government fully understands the financial pinch that the majority of our country is in right now. Any of my constituents who can fly around on a private jet know what it costs when they see the bill. When was the last time our Prime Minister saw, read or paid a bill for private flights? I believe he is too far removed to keep this country going and feel the financial pressure that even a small percentage increase in grocery prices can bear.

Furthermore, Liberal-appointed senators voted significantly to change Bill C-234, which aims to provide relief to farmers from this carbon tax. This will only make the situation worse for farmers who are already struggling to keep up with the rising costs of production. These appointed senators gutted the bill before sending it back to the House of Commons, which means that it will have to go through further amendments before it can be passed into law. More red tape, more stopgaps, while the government fails to come up with solutions that do not just benefit themselves. We need to take action and ensure we can provide much-needed support to our farmers.

The Parliamentary Budget Officer has released a report estimating that Bill C-234 will save Canadian farmers $1 billion by 2030. This would result in a reduction of food costs for Canadian families, many of whom are currently struggling to afford groceries. The report highlights the importance of passing this bill to support the agricultural industry and improve the financial well-being of Canadians. It is concerning to me, and should be a concern to everyone, that with this report, the Liberals are still against it. I would question the motive behind not wanting to reduce financial stress on Canadian citizens.

It is time to stand up for our hard-working farmers and families. I have heard from many of my constituents in Kootenay—Columbia about the effect of the carbon tax on their everyday life. We are experiencing a 52% increase in monthly visits to the food banks and have also had reports of previous donors now becoming clients. This level of increase is something I never imagined we would be experiencing in Canada.

Theresa in Wasa has recently moved into her car due to the continuous prices increases. Alex in Cranbrook has three jobs to make ends meet for him and his wife. Richard in Creston was charged $39.25 for his natural gas with a $57.00 carbon tax fee, and then that tax was taxed.

Why is the Liberal-NDP government implementing a tax and also taxing that tax? It looks like another way for it to line its pockets with our constituents' money so that it can continue to overspend with its off-balance budget. The government's goal seems to be testing how hard it can push Canadians to their financial breaking point. I can tell this House that we are already there. Families are feeling the financial strain and it is spilling into all areas of their lives.

Julie, a senior, called me and said that she had a piece of toast and half an apple for breakfast. Why only half an apple? She said she saves the other half for lunch. She could not remember the last time she had eaten meat. It is critical that the government fully understands the appalling financial state it has put this country in. Our seniors have worked their younger adult lives to contribute to society and better this country, and their reward? Taxes upon taxes, and deciding which half of an apple to eat for their meal. The government's legacy is going to be its citizens choosing between heat or food to make ends meet.

ATCO Wood Products, a third-generation sawmill in my riding, produces wood veneer, wood chips, biomass, wood gardening supplies, posts and landscape ties. It has reported it paid $400,000 in 2023 for carbon tax. In 2030, it will be $1.2 million.

The family-owned and run business gives back and provides excellent resources to our community and the country. It is successful in sustainable forest management on both Crown and private lands by thorough planning and responsible practices. It is hard to fathom that the tax that was meant to be an incentive to cut emissions has now become a noose for businesses providing essential products to our citizens.

What is really interesting is the tax on the carbon tax. This year that is $500 million, rising to $1 billion in 2030, and a total tax grab of $6.23 billion over the next eight years.

It is concerning to see the failure of the NDP-Liberal government in promoting Canadian LNG to the European Union. Instead, the EU had to fund Russia's war machine, which is not a sustainable solution. As a country with the most ethical leader in production energy, it is disappointing to see no action being taken. That is a missed opportunity for Canada to promote its clean energy resources on the global stage. We urge the government to take immediate action in promoting Canadian LNG to the European Union.

I am deeply concerned about the rising unaffordability in Canada, which is causing many Canadians to lose their homes and contributing to homelessness. This crisis is having a devastating impact on individuals, families and communities across this country.

Further to that, the homelessness crisis is directly contributing to the ever-expanding opioid crisis, as many individuals who are homeless are turning to drugs to cope. Due the increase of opioid users, business owners are reporting damages to their stores and property, resulting in them no longer contributing to the community in the ways they need to. We need to stop the crime. This trickle effect directly takes away from the community, since business owners are now putting money back into repairs and not into the community.

As I have mentioned, our food banks are seeing the results of this effect. This is a complex issue that requires attention from all levels of government, and the Liberal government needs to take immediate action to address the root causes of this unaffordability: overtaxing.

Conservatives believe that it is critical to support our farmers and our families by ensuring that they are not burdened with additional taxes. Adding a frivolous tax to make up for the government's budgetary mismanagement is downright shameful and it needs to stop. We need to fix the budget.

We will continue to fight for the elimination of the tax on everything, for everyone, for good. We believe Canadians should be able to keep more of their hard-earned money and not be burdened by unnecessary taxes.

We believe the red tape on the housing industry, preventing homes from being built, needs to stop. We need to fix homes.

We believe that the dream of owning a home, going on a warm holiday, having a secure retirement and not living paycheque to paycheque should not be a dream at all, it should be a reality. Overtaxing is taking away from our Canadian citizens. Our hard-working constituents should not be weighed down by the necessity of having multiple jobs or choosing heat or food.

We need to axe the tax.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Madam Speaker, the Bank of Canada has made it very clear that the impact of the price on pollution or the carbon tax is actually having on inflation is less than 1%. It is actually .15.

Canadians have a choice. They can listen to what the independent Bank of Canada is saying the impact on inflation is, or they can listen to the Conservative propaganda and spin that is an attempt to provide misinformation and give the impression that the impact on inflation is 4% or higher because of the carbon tax.

Can the member indicate to the House what he believes? Does he believe the Bank of Canada is right, or his leader?

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Madam Speaker, I believe the actual answer is .6. It is massive. I do not think the parliamentary secretary has the facts correct.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, I share the concerns of the member for Kootenay—Columbia with respect to food bank lines. The fact is, though, in my community, the lowest income folks get more back in rebates than they pay in a carbon tax, because they do not have multiple homes and multiple cars.

The carbon tax went up 2¢ a litre last year. Do members know what does not have a rebate attached to it? The gouging of oil and gas companies across the country, and the reason why gas prices have gone up 18¢ a litre. What does the member think should be done about the gouging of the oil and gas industry, if he claims to care about affordability?

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Madam Speaker, the reality is that a senior called me to say she does not remember the last time she ate meat. When we talk rebates, where is the rebate in that case if she cannot afford to eat? She eats half an apple. That is absolutely unacceptable.

We need to quit taxing our citizens, especially seniors and those on limited incomes. Single-parent families are being taxed and they cannot afford to eat.

[Luc Desilets, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Madam Speaker, I find it interesting that the Conservatives have started sharing their election platform this week.

I have a very specific question for my colleague. Good intentions are all well and good, but what is the cost of doing away with the carbon tax? How much less money will be in the government coffers?

[Rob Morrison, Conservative, Kootenay—Columbia, BC]

Madam Speaker, it comes down to affordability. When the carbon tax costs a small family business $400,000 and going up to $1.2 million, how can we expect businesses to be successful? How do we expect our grocery stores to sell affordable products when we are taxing the farmers, the truckers and the stores? The rubber will hit the road when Conservatives remove the taxes.