Debates of April 17th, 2024

Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates—Mr. Kristian Firth at Bar of House

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, the RFP for the contract in question had over 220 requirements involved. We offered up three suggestions, with which PSPC still deemed 40 qualified vendors could respond to, and of which 10 showed interest. I do not see that as overly restrictive.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, both the Auditor General and the procurement ombudsman found that the criteria for that contract were set in such a restrictive way that only GC Strategies could have been selected as the successful bidder.

Does Mr. Firth not agree that this process is profoundly unfair?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I find the ombudsman's comments to be somewhat subjective after the fact. I cannot comment as to why the other 39 people did not respond. People are busy. They sometimes do not have the bandwidth.

Also, for the Auditor General to understand that we would be the only people that could respond to this, there are 635 other vendors out there with the corporate requirements and there are wholly 10,000 or 12,000 resources out there with the technical requirements. Unless they are familiar with all of those, it is hard, again, to assume that we were the only people qualified to win this.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, Canadians are deeply troubled by the allegations and revelations surrounding the ArriveCAN app.

Could Mr. Firth, in his own words, describe what those concerns are, precisely?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I do not think I can, to be honest.

I do not know the allegations and accusations around the ArriveCAN app. We used the first three national security exemption contracts. Actually, only two of them, the first and the third, were used to build the ArriveCAN application.

I am not being disrespectful. I may not understand the question, but I think I am answering it honestly.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, at committee, when Mr. Firth was asked about which government official he discussed the contract criteria with, he refused to answer, citing the fact that the RCMP was now involved at some level in looking into the circumstances surrounding the ArriveCAN app, yet the rules of Parliament and the laws of Canada do not accept that as a valid reason to refuse to answer a question of Parliament.

Does Mr. Firth accept the fact that the rules required him, at the time, to provide a full answer to our questions at committee?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, as a result of my admonishment and my understanding of that, I do now.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, in an internal investigation report by the company Botler AI, there is a characterization of a communication with Mr. Firth in which he is discussing the exorbitant commissions charged by his company for the work done by subcontractors.

In those communications, he is alleged to have said that it sucks for Canada. Does Mr. Firth recall making those comments?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I have not seen any of that content. I cannot recall saying that at all.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, given that Mr. Firth has now been brought before the bar of Parliament, and this is only the second time in our country's history that this has happened, and given the grave concerns of Canadians, I wonder if there is anything he would have done differently in his initial committee appearances to avoid the situation he now finds himself in.

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I absolutely would. I would have answered the questions more concisely, taken more time in giving the answers and provided all written information back to the committee faster.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, earlier, Mr. Firth said that no one has asked him to pay back the commission that he earned.

Given that the Auditor General found the government overpaid for the ArriveCAN app, that the app itself did not work and sent thousands to quarantine incorrectly, that the Auditor General has called the record-keeping around those contracts some of the worst that she has ever seen, that 76% of the subcontractors did zero or little work, that GC Strategies bills itself as a recruitment firm but does not recruit, and that Mr. Firth took $2.5 million in commission for very little work, will he give that money back?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, we were the 24%; we were not the 76%. We did recruit over 50 people to work on the ArriveCAN application and over 100 people in totality at CBSA.

The answer is that we did as we were told. We invoiced monthly. At any time, we could have been stopped. This was not that we were given $20 million and then walked away to build an app. This was not our app. We were paid to recruit and find the resources who built the app within 20 days and did subsequent new releases for 18 months on time and on budget.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

This concludes the first round of questioning.

Would Mr. Firth like a pause before the House proceeds to the next round?

[Kristian Firth, Partner]

Mr. Speaker, yes, I would, please.

Sitting Suspended

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

The sitting is suspended to the call of the Chair.

(The sitting of the House was suspended at 4:17 p.m.)

(The House resumed at 4:28 p.m.)

Sitting Resumed

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

Order.

The House will resume now.

Before we continue with our business, there is some other business I have to get done.

It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Calgary Rocky Ridge, Carbon Pricing; the hon. member for Kitchener Centre, Persons with Disabilities; and the hon. member for Cypress Hills—Grasslands, Carbon Pricing.

The House will now proceed to the second round of questions.

Each recognized party will have 10 minutes.

I wish to remind hon. members that all questions are to be addressed through the Chair.

The hon. member for Mégantic—L'Érable.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the witness what allegations were made by Botler AI that resulted in an RCMP search of his home this week.

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, I am not aware of the allegations. There were six points on the search warrant and they were not very specific to any specific allegations, but from previous testimony, I am understanding that it was fraudulent billing and résumé fraud.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the witness, Mr. Firth, is here in the wake of the Liberal scandal involving the Prime Minister's ArriveCAN application. It is an app that was supposed to cost $80,000, but ended up costing $60 million.

Did the Liberal government, who paid tens of millions of dollars for work that was not done, contact Mr. Firth?

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there was no English translation for the member's question.

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

It seems there was English translation for the first question, but not the second question.

I will ask the member for Mégantic—L'Érable to ask his second question again.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the witness, Mr. Firth, is here in the wake of the Liberal scandal involving the Prime Minister's ArriveCAN application. It is an app that was supposed to cost $80,000, but ended up costing $60 million.

Did the Liberal government, who paid tens of millions of dollars for work that was not done, ask Mr. Firth to reimburse the money or contact him to find a way to do so?

[Kristian Firth]

Mr. Speaker, no, I was not contacted.