Debates of May 23rd, 2024

Department of Justice—Main Estimates, 2024-25

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, my role as minister for the entire country is to collaborate, co-operate and try to better understand Quebec's justice system and legal system. I need to be better informed in order to serve the entire population, both in Quebec and outside Quebec. It is a challenge for someone who comes from outside Quebec, but it is a challenge that I have taken on.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, in light of what I said earlier about the difference between the social values and legal traditions of Quebec and Canada, will the minister commit to supporting the spirit of the bill that was introduced by my colleague, the member for Abitibi—Baie-James—Nunavik—Eeyou? This bill responds to the aspirations of the Quebec National Assembly and also to the will of the vast majority of Quebeckers. It seeks to allow advance requests for medical assistance in dying in Quebec.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, with respect to medical assistance in dying, I am already listening to the concerns, wishes and hopes of the Government of Quebec.

Second, so far, we have always taken a national approach to medical assistance in dying when it comes to changes to the Criminal Code and laws on murder that are affected by any changes in this area.

I would also like to point out that we already have a panel of medical experts and health care officials who have looked at what needs to be done and what needs to be protected in the case of advance requests.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, our request is quite clear and is the result of a lengthy, extremely rigorous, sensitive and serious reflection within Quebec society.

The minister does not seem to want to make an exception to the Criminal Code for Quebec. However, he did so for British Columbia. Does he consider Quebec's demands less important when it comes to such a crucial issue? Why would he not make an exception for Quebec as he did for British Columbia?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we listened to British Columbia. We are listening to the hopes and objectives of the Province of Quebec. That is the first thing.

The second thing is to take care not to draw an analogy between the decriminalization of narcotics and requests for exceptions.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will move on to another subject that I think is extremely important: Bill C-63.

Earlier this evening, my colleague, the member for Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, addressed this issue, among others, regarding the Bloc Québécois's suggestion to split part 1 of Bill C‑63 from the other parts so that the digital safety commission can be created as quickly as possible.

My concern is that we are all witnessing and aware of an appalling proliferation of hateful content on social media, including disinformation and aggressive fake accounts, often directed at vulnerable individuals or groups. This should be very worrisome not just to individuals, but to society as a whole.

How does the minister intend to pass a bill that is already being challenged, in a time frame that reflects the urgency of the situation?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, we must move quickly to pass the bill in its entirety. I would like to remind the member opposite that when this bill went through first reading, I was accompanied by a lady named Carla Beauvais. She is a Black, Afro-Canadian Quebecker who has repeatedly spoken about all the hate she received because she was trying to talk about the George Floyd case, which happened three years ago.

This type of hate needs to be eliminated through a comprehensive bill. It does not just affect children. Online hate and prejudice affects teenagers and adults, like Carla Beauvais. This Quebecker has the right to legal recourse, which is the aim of this bill.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, we agree on the urgent need to act on online safety. The problem is out there and it is urgent. It affects all groups.

How does the minister think the digital platforms and digital giants, which control social media, will react to a piece of legislation that they, and probably our Conservative colleagues too, believe will further hamper freedom of expression as they see it?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it was actually a very nice surprise to see the reactions of major platforms like Facebook. Just a week ago, for instance, I was at the Empire Club in downtown Toronto. During a dinner, I gave a 25-minute speech that was managed and sponsored by Facebook.

The digital giants are with us. They know that there is a problem that needs to be fixed. They want to work with us, my team and our government, to resolve the situation and protect Canadians.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I will keep an open mind and hope to be surprised. It is a far cry from the attitude and approach we saw from Meta during our most recent legislative efforts.

In October 2021, the Commissioner of Official Languages, Raymond Théberge, responded to a complaint by a Montreal lawyer asking for translations of Supreme Court rulings handed down prior to 1970. The recommendation was brought to the attention of the Supreme Court, which has yet to take action. The court did not follow up on the Commissioner of Official Languages' recommendations.

Will the minister commit to provide the Supreme Court of Canada with the resources to translate its pre-1970 decisions?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, first, I would like to point out that Meta's response was also surprising, because there are a lot of penalties set out in Bill C-63, but Meta is still comfortable working with us.

With regard to the second question, I want to say that we stand up for the protection of both official languages across Canada under the Official Languages Act.

If that means giving the courts and the federal court administration across Canada more funding, then we are there to listen to those concerns and provide the resources necessary to improve access to justice in both official languages, including French, for all Canadians.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to hear that and I am taking note of it because we are talking about more than 6,000 rulings, many of which are important references for numerous lawyers in Quebec and Canada. This mainly affects French-speaking lawyers, obviously, because the translation that was not done was into French. The documents are available only in English.

If I understand correctly, the minister is committing to providing resources so that this recommendation from 2021 can finally be implemented by the Supreme Court. Am I hearing a commitment from him on that this evening?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, as I have mentioned several times this evening, I am in contact with the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Canada, Chief Justice Wagner. I have spoken with him about his hopes for the administration of the courts across Canada. I also want to point out that technology can be used to accomplish certain things in relation to the courts. For example, with artificial intelligence, we can take care of translation needs—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

The hon. member for Drummond.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I want to stick with the topic of the justice system. There has been a lot of talk about the shortage of judges in Quebec and Canada. We hear a lot of complaints about backlogs in the justice system. There is obviously a shortage of judges, and I heard the minister say earlier that he is making every effort to fill the judicial vacancies in Quebec and Canada. However, there are other phenomena, other things that often slow down the justice system. Cases are often subject to stays of proceedings, when the Jordan decision is usually invoked.

In addition to his commitment to ensuring that judicial vacancies are filled in a timely manner, does the minister have any other solutions to propose to improve the performance of the justice system?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, there is a lot to say. First, I added people to my ministerial team. I sped up background checks for candidates. I extended the eligibility period for a candidate who has already been assessed to three years. I extended the terms of each committee that makes recommendations on judicial appointments. I am working in close collaboration with judges themselves to understand their needs, for example in Quebec, in such expertise, in criminal law, in family law, et cetera. We are working as fast as we can to appoint more judges and to provide judges to the courts that need them.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, will the minister reconsider the decision not to require French-English bilingualism for the commissioners of the future miscarriage of justice review commission, or will French once again be optional in Canada?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that the creation of this commission is centred on access to justice. In order to have access to justice before this commission, people must be understood, which requires a translation system that—

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

The hon. member for Drummond.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my next question may be a little long. I am going to present a scenario, which will give the minister plenty of time to answer.

The Standing Committee on Canadian Heritage is currently studying Bill C-316, which deals with a program that we want to create a framework for and that we hope will become permanent. The Bloc Québécois defended this program during the years of the Harper government, which wanted to abolish it. We fought alongside other opposition parties at the time to protect this program, which is very important for advancing the rights of francophones outside Quebec and for advancing the human rights of many individuals and groups.

The current program includes a provision that prevents the federal government from funding challenges of Quebec or provincial legislation through the human rights branch. We think it would be appropriate for Quebec, as a nation repeatedly recognized by Parliament, to have access to a similar provision, an asymmetry provision for Quebec, to ensure that the program cannot fund challenges to the Charter of the French Language. This would help us protect the French language in Quebec while continuing to actively advocate for the advancement of francophones outside Quebec.

Will the minister accept the Bloc Québécois's offer of help and agree to consider suggested amendments to Bill C‑316 to this effect?

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

It was a long question. The minister therefore has only 49 seconds to respond.

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Parkdale—High Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I have several responses to give.

First, the court challenges program was created by a Liberal government. It was eliminated by Harper's Conservative government and then reinstated by our government.

Second, the program is not managed by me, but by the Minister of Canadian Heritage, because the Attorney General and the Department of Justice are significantly involved in many cases. We are always either the defendant or the complainant in the cases.

Finally, with respect to the situation he mentioned, I will follow up to get a little more information about those concerns.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I am going to try to do something. The canvassing of issues this evening has been extraordinary and, I am afraid, all too often, superficial.

I want to dive into a couple of things and just ask the minister for his reflections because this is tough stuff. I do not think there is a single Canadian who is not grieved whenever somebody “out on bail” commits a crime and some innocent person's whole life is ruined. They may have lost a relative. They will never get over it. The family that was involved in the high-speed crash on Highway 401 is a heartbreaking example.

During the conversation about this earlier tonight, it was said that the man responsible for this was out on bail. When one examines it, the individual who died in the crash, and who clearly had violated a number of laws, or was accused of violating laws, and who was under bail conditions not to be behind the wheel of a vehicle, should not have been chased. It is complicated.

Who is responsible for a high-speed crash going the wrong way down the 401 that kills grandparents and an infant? It is all too simple to say that it is the person who was under bail conditions not to drive, but the high-speed chase that ensued was, from everything I have seen, against all police protocols. The person who had committed the crime had committed the crime of a liquor store theft. He was not thought to be at risk of violently offending or about to kill, abduct or kidnap someone. The high-speed chase was seen to be, by many law enforcement officials, the wrong reaction at the wrong moment, and it led to tragedy.

Does the minister have any thoughts on that particular example?

[Arif Virani, Liberal, Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands for her contribution. I would underscore that bail decisions are made by individual justices of the peace or provincial court judges across the country all of the time. They are always trying to work according to the three principles I mentioned, which are flight risks, the likelihood of reoffending, and the message being sent to the community to ensure confidence in the administration of justice.

With respect to police actions, I think that bears some inquiry into why a police pursuit was taking place in the wrong direction on the highway in that instance.

I will share with the hon. member the incredible sadness and sympathy that I feel for the family that suffered such a horrific loss. What we are working constantly to do is to ensure fewer fatal accidents of that nature and that we are keeping Canadians as safe as possible at all times.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I think all these specific examples that are exploited end up leading people to doubt some of the fundamentals of our British common law criminal justice system, which is that one is innocent until proven guilty. People out on bail are essentially legally innocent people. They have not been found guilty of crimes.

We can take the example, recently, of Umar Zameer, who was involved in a tragic accident in which a police officer was killed in July 2021. The prosecution and the justice system decided to charge him with first-degree murder, which would indicate that he knowingly knew this was a policeman and that he deliberately killed him. He was not released. He was only found not guilty nearly three years later, and in the court, in an extraordinary measure, the judge apologized to Mr. Zameer.

His lawyer, Mr. Nader Hasan, reports that he was also harassed and received hate mail for the horror that he would represent someone who was charged with first-degree murder. Again, this was someone who nearly had his liberties taken from him forever, in what was a very harsh prosecution, but the essence of the response, immediately when he was released on bail, from public figures whom I respect, such as former Toronto mayor John Tory, was “How could this happen?” and “this is dreadful”.

Does the minister have any concerns, as I do, that if we fail to remember that we are innocent until proven guilty in our criminal law system, we are at larger peril than the individual cases we are talking about?