House of Commons Hansard #319 of the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was partisan.

Topics

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, there is nothing new about the fact that reflections on the character or actions of the Speaker could be taken as breaches of privilege and punished accordingly. It is even written in our procedural bible. This evening we are going to hold a vote. An overwhelming majority of members will say that the Speaker should not be attacked, because we understand the context of this situation.

Will the Bloc Québécois accept the result of a democratic vote this time? It is going to lose. It is once again calling the Speaker's position into question when we know that the Conservatives have done everything they can to oust him and try to attack him as Speaker.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:05 p.m.

Bloc

Julie Vignola Bloc Beauport—Limoilou, QC

Madam Speaker, are we attacking the Speaker personally? No. We are just trying to ensure that the person in that role is impartial and neutral and that we do not have to wonder, every time the Speaker opens his mouth, whether his decision is impartial or neutral.

This is not a personal attack. I really like the member for Hull—Aylmer. However, he is not doing so well in his current role. We are not working with the Conservatives. We respect our values and decorum.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, it is my sad duty to rise in the House with another Conservative blocking motion, as the Conservatives have done for the last couple of years.

Ever since Erin O'Toole left as leader of the Conservative Party and the member for Carleton became the leader of the Conservative Party, the Conservatives have brought chaos into the House of Commons, and constant delays. We saw this with the issue of dental care, which the NDP provoked the government to put into place. So far, 100,000 seniors in the first three weeks of the program were able to access dental services, in many cases for the first time in their lives, and many of them in Conservative ridings. Two million seniors have signed up and tens of thousands are signing up each week. We know that, starting next week, people with disabilities and families with kids under 18 will be able to sign up for dental care. The Conservatives have blocked that systematically.

Now we have another procedural move by the Conservatives to try to block passage of pharmacare, which would help six million Canadians suffering from diabetes and nine million Canadians who are looking to control their own reproductive health without huge financial costs. Particularly, women's reproductive freedom is absolutely fundamental. The Conservatives have been blocking that bill since February 29. They know that it is back in the House today and instead of allowing a vote to take place, they have been steadfastly blocking this with consideration of this procedural motion that will be voted on tonight, thanks to a procedural move that was made a few hours ago. Then we will finally be able to move on to issues that are of real concern, like putting in place pharmacare for six million Canadians with diabetes and ensuring that nine million Canadians have access to contraception. This is fundamentally important.

There is also the issue of affordable housing that the NDP, the member for Burnaby South and the entire NDP caucus, has pushed the government to put into place. Therefore, we will start to see the construction of affordable housing after a dismal two decades, first under the Conservatives, when we saw housing prices and food bank lineups double. Tragically, the Liberals did the same thing, keeping in place many of the Harper-regime policies that have had such a profound detrimental impact on Canadians.

I would point out the infamous Harper tax haven treaties that cost Canadians $30 billion each and every year, according to the PBO. It is sad beyond belief that we are unable to pay for so many important things that would make a difference in lives of people and NDP initiatives that are blocked constantly by the Conservatives. At the same time, the Conservatives seem proud of the fact that they continue to give $30 billion a year to overseas tax havens and the very wealthy.

Those are my concerns.

We know that this is a procedural delay. It is designed to block pharmacare. However, there is an underpinning that I find extremely disquieting, which is that the Conservatives are trying to run roughshod over our independent institutions, writ large. What happened in the Saskatchewan legislature over the last few months is absolutely despicable. No Conservative has apologized. No Conservative has stepped forward and talked about what happened with a former member of the conservative Saskatchewan Party. The House leader of that party has been intimidating the independent Speaker of the Saskatchewan legislature. Not a single Conservative has stepped up and said “That is unacceptable.” Saskatchewan MPs sat with that member, Jeremy Harrison, who has been both physically and mentally intimidating the independent Speaker of the Saskatchewan legislature and not a single Conservative has stood to say that it is wrong.

Therefore, this ongoing attack against the Speaker at the federal level—

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

Warren Steinley Conservative Regina—Lewvan, SK

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. The member has been here a long time. I did say that harassment is wrong—

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:10 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I am sorry, but the hon. member is rising on a point of debate, not a point of order. If the member is not in agreement with what the hon. member is saying, then he needs to wait until questions and comments and he can make his comment then.

Members may want to look at the procedures manual and policy manual to ensure that they are rising on proper points of order, so we can keep the House going.

I do have a point of order and I hope that it is not with respect to what I have just ruled.

The hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:10 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Madam Speaker, my concern is that when we are talking about someone bringing a gun into the legislature, it would be nice if the Conservatives all signed something, but they refuse to, and they continue to tacitly go along.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. That hon. member knows that this is debate and not a point of order. I would ask that those kinds of interventions stop, as the deputy government House leader does.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:15 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

Everything that is being said is points of debate. Again, I would ask members to please allow members to do their speech without interruptions, unless they know for sure that it is truly a point of order on which they are rising.

The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:15 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, that is exactly the point. The Conservatives threaten; they cut people off. As for the decorum in the Saskatchewan legislature, I need to read into the record what Conservatives in Saskatchewan have done to the independent Speaker, because it is very germane to the kinds of ongoing attacks against the speakership of the House of Commons. We elect a Speaker. We ensure that the Speaker continues on good behaviour.

What we have seen is the Conservatives attacking in a way that we have never seen before. I have raised constantly points of order about the social media posts that have been the most disgusting, disrespectful material possible, attacking the speakership of the House of Commons. It is unbelievable. It is something that Conservatives in the past ruled very clearly on, saying that in no circumstances was it appropriate to attack the Speaker or the speakership, yet Conservatives now do this routinely, as if destroying the speakership is some kind of childish game to them.

What happened just a few days ago in Saskatchewan is indicative of that lack of respect for our institutions that we see routinely now from the member for Carleton and the entire Conservative caucus. No members speak up. Only the member for Richmond—Arthabaska had the courage to stand and say that what was happening in the Conservative Party was unacceptable. He now sits as an independent. Thankfully, at least one Conservative was willing to do that.

I know that other members of the Conservative caucus have strong misgivings about what Conservatives are doing now in the House and the attacks that they are levying against all our institutions, whether it is the Bank of Canada, or the Parliamentary Budget Officer, or the Auditor General or the speakership of the House of Commons. There are Conservatives that have profound misgivings but they are not voicing them.

I would ask the Conservative caucus to reflect on what the member for Carleton has done and the kinds of attacks the Conservative Party and Conservative members are levying against our parliamentary institutions, our democratic institutions, our independent institutions, and speak out. It is fine to convey misgivings privately. It takes courage to speak up publicly. I would encourage them to speak publicly. What happened in Saskatchewan is happening here. We will be able to get through, with a vote this evening, this procedural game the Conservatives are playing to block pharmacare.

What happened in Saskatchewan is even more distasteful.

I will read now into the record the comments by the independent Speaker of the Saskatchewan legislature, directing his comments toward the attacks of the conservative Saskatchewan Party, including from ex-members of the Conservative caucus. He talks about the obsession in Saskatchewan of the government House leader, former member Jeremy Harrison, former member of the Conservative caucus, saying that what is “more disturbing is his obsession with guns and his use of intimidation both verbally and physically. His desire to get permission to carry a handgun in the legislative assembly is particularly disturbing.”

He also said:

Another incident reported by a former special constable was when the Government House Leader [Jeremy Harrison] flaunted the rules concerning weapons when he brought a hunting rifle into the Legislative Building. He owns many weapons including a .223 AR-style 4-shot clip lightweight which looks like an assault weapon. Weapons like these can be easily converted to more than four shots

As I stated before, my experience with the Government House Leader includes threatening gestures whenever I rule against him in the Assembly. He will start yelling at me and standing up and flashing his suit jacket. As the gestures and behaviour became more aggressive, I worried that he might be carrying a handgun. My concerns over his mental stability and his obsession with guns was only confirmed—

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:20 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The hon. member for Longueuil—Saint‑Hubert is rising on a point of order.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:20 p.m.

Bloc

Denis Trudel Bloc Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, QC

Madam Speaker, I do not know where this is going. I have been listening to my colleague for a while. Now he is talking about the legislation of Saskatchewan. I am not sure what he is trying to prove.

Today, we are having a debate on the integrity of the Chair, but I am not sure that my colleague is on topic.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:20 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

The hon. member for Longueuil—Saint‑Hubert knows full well that members can discuss different things during a debate and raise different points. To be sure, the discussion has to be based on the motion that is being studied. I am sure that the hon. member will link the different elements together.

The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:20 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, I will finish the quote before I was so rudely interrupted. He said, “My concerns over his mental stability and his obsession with guns was only confirmed when he heckled after the passing of the motion to devolve all relevant parts of the Firearms Act to the province. He twice yelled, open carry, open carry next.”

The attacks against the Speaker of the Saskatchewan legislature by the conservative Saskatchewan Party are very similar to the attacks we are seeing now against the speakership of the House of Commons. This is not something that is innocuous or innocent. It is something that needs to be taken under consideration.

I have repeatedly risen in the House, talking about the incessant attacks that we are seeing on social media from the Conservative Party against the speakership of the House of Commons. I will give credit where credit is due. The members of the Bloc Québécois, despite the fact that they continue to raise procedural blockages to the House of Commons, have not attacked the speakership of the House of Commons openly on social media. Why? Because it contravenes the rules of our House.

The rules of our House were set by the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle, the former Speaker of the House of Commons, the now House leader for the Conservative Party. He said, “Reflections on the character or actions of the Speaker—an allegation of bias, for example—could be taken by the House as breeches of privilege and punished accordingly.” The Speaker also said at that time, in this ruling that dates back to 2014, “I urge all members to be judicious in the expressions they choose to use.”

That was the Conservatives when they were in power, saying that there was no transgression against attacking the speakership of the House of Commons. Now we see them in opposition not doing anything that actually helps anybody. They are blocking dental care, pharmacare, affordable housing and the consumer protection provisions that the member for Burnaby South has brought forward, which would start helping Canadians against food price and gas price gouging, which has happened with corporate CEOs determining the prices and the gouging they do with impunity. Those provisions are something the NDP has been pushing for years, and finally they are coming into being. However, all of those pieces of legislation have been blocked by the incessant attacks by the Conservative caucus against the speakership of the House of Commons.

The Conservatives would have loved to have spent the next three weeks debating this, rather than getting pharmacare in place, which would help six million Canadians who have diabetes, and I will come back to that in a moment, and nine million Canadian women, who want their full reproductive rights and freedoms, to have access to contraception.

For diabetes, the Conservatives' constant blocking since February 29 of the pharmacare act that the NDP initiated, pushing in this minority Parliament to get it done, hurts people like my constituent Amber, who is paying $1,000 a month for diabetes medication. She is paying that out of pocket. She is struggling because of the lack of affordable housing, because of the Harper government's refusal to build affordable housing and the current government's reluctance, until the NDP forced it to finally budget that. All of the other provisions that would help Canadians, the Conservatives have blocked.

We are seeing, systematically, an attack not only on the speakership of the House of Commons, but also on all our institutions. People would say, and they would be right, that the NDP MPs are the worker bees of Parliament. We get things done for people, even people in Conservative ridings. In fact, Conservative ridings have benefited from the NDP's work perhaps more than any other, because of the success of the dental care program within even the first three weeks. More Conservative ridings are benefiting from dental care, because the seniors who have signed up are finally accessing, sometimes for the first time in their lives, it. Therefore, we are the worker bees, but we are also the adults in the House of Commons.

We saw this last fall when the former Speaker made a choice that, to our minds, simply compelled that Speaker to step down. Members will recall that no other party was calling for the Speaker's resignation. We put it forward with dignity. We did not criticize or attack the Speaker. In fact, we thought the former Speaker had done a decent job. However, given its magnitude, we believed that what unfolded last fall necessitated the Speaker's resignation. We clearly communicated that; eventually, other parties agreed with us, and the Speaker did resign.

We went through a process that took a couple of weeks, and we elected a new Speaker. However, the new Speaker initially made a number of errors that forced the House to consider the matter and refer it to PROC, which then referred it back to the House, and we voted on that. There were a number of sanctions and some solutions that were put into place. However, since then, we have not seen the kind of behaviour that would necessitate any kind of motion such as this, quite the contrary.

The Speaker has stood up and maintained decorum, but Conservatives have not liked that. The fact is, the member for Carleton was called to order when he used an atrociously unparliamentary, disrespectful term, attacking another member of the House. He was asked to withdraw it and refused; he was then asked to withdraw for the day. That happens, and we have seen it happen with other members of Parliament. When we use unparliamentary terms, we have to ensure that we are willing to undergo the consequences that come from that. It is a question of basic personal responsibility. I know that is alien to members of at least one party in the House, but when one makes such an error, one has to be willing to accept the consequences of one's actions. However, the member for Carleton did not accept the consequences. He renewed his attacks on the Speaker.

Now, we have a situation where the Liberal Party of Canada was clearly at fault and clearly disrespected the speakership by posting something without the knowledge or the authorization of the Speaker. However, the Conservatives did not attack the Liberal Party of Canada, which is what they should have done. They love to attack, so why did they not attack the author of the error? It was only the NDP that called on the Liberal Party of Canada to fully apologize to the speakership, which is ultimately, thankfully, what members of the Liberal Party did. They should have apologized right away, but they did not. However, pressure from the NDP meant that the Liberal Party of Canada apologized, which should have closed it and ended this.

We should not be spending days talking through this procedural delay when, at the same time, we have pharmacare pending. The sooner pharmacare is approved, the sooner the benefits can go to people such as my constituent, Amber, who is paying $1,000 every month. Conservatives do not seem to care about that, but for her, those costs are enormous, and six million Canadians like her struggle every single month. Therefore, to delay pharmacare by putting forward procedural motions that delay the adoption of the bill means that it takes that much longer to help Amber and people like her. In this case, we are seeing a deliberate attempt by Conservatives not to look at the speakership in an impartial way, in an adult way, and if an error happens, to ensure that there is the appropriate consequence. That is what happened last fall and last December. No, they now want to invent, push and expose anything they feel they can, attack the independent speakership of the House of Commons and, in a very real way, diminish our parliamentary institutions.

I lived through the incredibly dismal decade of the Harper regime, when Parliament was shut down and padlocked by Conservatives, when procedural things and the normal give-and-take of parliamentary debate ended, and when Conservatives forced through bills that were promptly thrown out by the courts. I do not want to live through that again. Most Canadians would not want to.

I want to get on with helping Canadians, and that is why I will be voting “no” on this motion and “yes” to getting back to the debate on pharmacare.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:30 p.m.

Winnipeg North Manitoba

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux LiberalParliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the manner in which the member indicated that, with respect to the incident that ultimately led to the debate we are having today, it very clearly had nothing to do with the Speaker. It was the Liberal Party, which has given a formal apology to the Speaker's office and, through that, to Canadians. This is widely known; it has been publicized.

The issue, then, is this: Why would the Conservative Party want to continue trying to punish the current Speaker when, in fact, it was the Liberal Party that made the posting? I have drawn the conclusion that it is because the Conservative Party wants to continue to play a destructive force inside the chamber, preventing the debates on important issues. The member referred to the pharmacare—

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:30 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I want to make sure that the hon. member has an opportunity to answer; there are others waiting to ask questions.

The hon. member for New Westminster—Burnaby.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:30 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, this is my point. The independent officers of Parliament, the Governor of the Bank of Canada, the Speaker of the House of Commons, and the independent Speaker in the Saskatchewan legislature, obviously showing too much independence for the conservative Saskatchewan Party, are all symptoms of a party that has lost its way.

The Conservative Party simply does not have the ethics, morals and scruples that it did under previous leaders, who upheld parliamentary principles. We saw that in the past. We are not seeing it today, and I regret that profoundly. I think the Conservatives need to reflect on their behaviour in the House of Commons and in undermining institutions that matter to all Canadians.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Michelle Rempel Conservative Calgary Nose Hill, AB

Madam Speaker, the Chair has the responsibility for overseeing the House of Commons harassment policy. It is a very serious role in this place.

In 2016, the Prime Minister grabbed my late former colleague, Gord Brown, by the elbow; he also elbowed a former NDP member in the chest. The Speaker's exact words in that moment, when the member expressed that she had been injured, were, “What happened was exactly as the Prime Minister had described it.” In the Hansard, he described it as “reminiscent of a dive in the 2006 World Cup.”

Now there are three incidents of partisanship while he is in the chair. How can the NDP trust the Speaker, given his history of partisanship, to fairly adjudicate the House's harassment policy? What impact will it have on staff and MPs if he continues?

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:30 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, I am glad that the Conservatives actually brought this up, and I thank the member for London—Fanshawe for having initiated the study on harassment at PROC.

Conservatives were not initially in favour. It is important that they now recognize the importance of actually dealing with this in a non-partisan and responsible way. This is a vitally important issue. That is why we raised it and why the member for London—Fanshawe pushed to have this study.

I have been here, as has my hon. colleague, and we have seen numerous incidents, both under the previous government and the current government. We need to have a zero tolerance policy in the House of Commons and on the Hill.

I am very hopeful that we will get there.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:35 p.m.

Bloc

Kristina Michaud Bloc Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC

Madam Speaker, I have a lot of respect for my colleague, but during the events surrounding the Speaker last December, the NDP House leader said that he had confidence in the Speaker, but that a line had been drawn and it must not be crossed. We can all see that that line has been crossed several times since then. Today, the NDP is telling us that it still has confidence in the Speaker.

As the Liberal Party's farm team, how many feet is the New Democratic Party prepared to move its own line?

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:35 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, I have a lot of respect for my colleague too, but I cannot stand by while she spreads disinformation.

The reality is that, in this case, it was the Liberal Party of Canada that was at fault and that demonstrated a lack of respect, not only toward the Speaker, but toward all members of the House of Commons. That is why we demanded that the Liberal Party of Canada apologize, which it did. It was not the Speaker's fault.

The Bloc Québécois should draw a less partisan line based more on fact. The fact is that, since December, the line has not moved or been crossed, and the Bloc Québécois should admit that.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:35 p.m.

NDP

Gord Johns NDP Courtenay—Alberni, BC

Madam Speaker, just recently, my colleague spoke about the fact that the Conservatives are blocking things, not only here in the House but also at committee. They do not want to see pharmacare advanced. Not only are they blocking pharmacare, but they are also blocking things that need to get through the Standing Committee on Health and need to get through the House.

Conservatives say they are standing up for the Canadian Health Food Association regarding natural health products, for example. These are issues that need to be looked at when it comes to regulatory changes. Gavin Mah and Matt Breech, who are both business owners, just met with me; they talked about the regulatory changes that might impact their businesses.

Can my colleague speak about how this blocking impacts everything here in this place, especially supporting small businesses that are trying to continue to support their customers?

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:35 p.m.

NDP

Peter Julian NDP New Westminster—Burnaby, BC

Madam Speaker, I really wanted to give a shout-out to the member for Courtenay—Alberni, who has always been a strong advocate for small businesses, not only in his riding but also right across the country. He has done an extraordinarily effective job. We saw that during the pandemic, and the response to help small businesses was largely inspired by his work. He has also played a pivotal role in fighting back against the toxic drug crisis that has killed people across this country. Sadly, we have skyrocketing rates in Alberta and Saskatchewan because of the mishandling of this crisis in those two provinces; hence, we are seeing that there is even more to do. However, the member has made an impact. If the government and the official opposition listened to him more, there would be far fewer deaths happening in Canada.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:35 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Madam Speaker, in the first of six partisan incidents involving the current Speaker, coming out of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs as it was considering the question, a member of the committee said, “This cannot happen moving forward. From now on, you cannot have a Speaker engage in partisan activity.” Moreover, “if there were any derogation from that, in the weeks and months to come”, he said that his party would vote “non-confidence” in the Speaker.

Who was that member? It was the member for New Westminster—Burnaby. Was he telling the truth then or has he just become an unmitigated falsifier of veracity today?

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:40 p.m.

NDP

The Assistant Deputy Speaker NDP Carol Hughes

I want to remind the member that he cannot say indirectly what he cannot say directly, so I would just ask him to be very careful with how he uses his words.

On a point of order, the hon. member for Timmins—James Bay.

Resuming debate on the privilege motionPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:40 p.m.

NDP

Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON

Madam Speaker, we just heard my colleague called a liar, but my comment is about his use of the word “veracity”. That is a big word. I think he should withdraw it; it is probably beyond the capacity of the Conservatives.