Debates of May 29th, 2024

Department of Health—Main Estimates, 2024-25

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Chair, I am extremely happy to see that, in the last budget, we responded to the Bouchard report and will be putting major money into research. I think it is $2.5 billion, generally a very significant portion for health research. Through the Canadian Institute for Health Research, we funded an enormous amount of research into MS.

The member is absolutely right: Canada is a leader, unfortunately, when it comes to MS, so we also need to be a leader in research. When I look at these investments, I certainly hope that this independent agency will be taking a look at these requests and deepening our commitments in research. However, those dollars in the budget are absolutely essential to that end.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, I appreciate the minister for meeting with representatives from MS Canada. It is best that he hear from them directly rather than from me, but it also good to know that there are parliamentarians on all sides who are keen to see the investment made potentially, for example, in the next fall economic statement.

I would like to turn to a question for the Minister of Mental Health.

There are two local mental health service providers in my community, Thresholds and the CMHA Waterloo Wellington, which have been struggling for months to secure funding for a mental health emergency room to provide appropriate care for people in crisis and to alleviate the strain on overcrowded emergency rooms. There has not been government funding available, so they have had to open this summer using their own budgets, and they have about three months' worth of staffing support available to demonstrate how critical the support is. Of course the provincial government also needs to step up.

Given the urgency and the critical need for this kind of facility, I would like to hear what the minister believes are the immediate actions the federal government could take to support these kinds of local initiatives and ensure that people in crisis have access to the care they need without overburdening the emergency rooms.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, Minister of Mental Health and Addictions and Associate Minister of Health]

Madam Chair, I know that the member is such a staunch advocate for mental health and for helping those who use substances in our communities.

I do not think there is a quick fix to getting our health systems to incorporate mental health in the full spectrum of care. That is why we are taking an integrated approach through the bilateral agreements. As I mentioned earlier in the evening, just for example, in Ontario, $700 million of its $3.1 billion bilateral agreement is going toward mental health and substance use.

We have to move the needle. We are not there yet. Community service organizations have been the bedrock of providing mental health services in the gap that we see across jurisdictions. That being said, this is exactly why programs like the youth mental health fund are being put into place in budget 2024, but there are no quick fixes.

We are moving mental health into the health care systems. We are seeing, for the first time ever, that there are mental health ministers in nearly every jurisdiction across this country, which shows us that there is a prioritization to work collaboratively. I am happy to meet with the member to talk about what is going on in his own community with regard to the CMHA. Local CMHAs do terrific work, and I would be happy to discuss.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, today the minister stood by her failed decriminalization project in British Columbia after being forced to walk it back. Last week, she voted against ruling out the expansion of drug decriminalization everywhere else in Canada. Will the minister unequivocally commit today to never expanding her insane decriminalization policy from B.C. to anywhere else?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, Minister of Mental Health and Addictions and Associate Minister of Health]

Sadly, Madam Chair, I have to say again that the stigmatized language from the other side of the House is highly disturbing.

Decriminalization is one tool of many in addressing the overdose crisis. It exists in jurisdictions around the world, such as Switzerland, Portugal and Spain, and we know it is an important tool that we need to use. I really wish the member would look at the evidence and the facts rather than use rhetoric.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, the failed experiment in British Columbia was walked back by the minister herself after she was forced to do it due to a request from B.C. because of so many deaths. Will she rule it out for her own city, in Toronto?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, as the member well knows, we have said no to the Toronto proposal. Again, she seems to ignore the many stakeholders and evidence supporting a full use of tools to address the overdose crisis. People are dying because of street drugs; they are not dying because of decriminalization.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, will the minister say no to Toronto forever?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, we do not deal with hypotheticals on this side of the House; we deal with facts. I wish the member would actually engage in an evidence-based conversation on what a comprehensive strategy to addressing the overdose crisis looks like.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, it is not a hypothetical; it is a yes or no question. Will the minister rule out decriminalization for Toronto going forward?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, the member is misleading Canadians. The proposal has already been rejected. There is no new application on the books, and we do not deal with what-ifs and what-abouts. We deal—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Thornhill.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, it is a very simple question. The people of Toronto have watched crack being smoked in hospitals and people shooting up in parks, next to children.

Will the minister say no to decriminalization in Toronto going forward? It is a yes or no question.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, the current proposal was rejected.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, it is a yes or no question. Yes or no, will the minister rule out decriminalization for Toronto, for Montreal and for Halifax? I will even expand the question for her.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, there are currently no proposals put before Health Canada for those jurisdictions.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, we are aware that the proposal from Toronto was rejected.

If the Liberals win the next election, will the minister commit to never decriminalizing illegal drugs in Toronto?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, just like the member does not have a crystal ball of what will happen in the next election, we do not have a crystal ball on what jurisdictions will need and what they will ask the federal government to collaborate with them on in addressing the overdose crisis.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Chair, the minister was asked, yes or no, whether she will commit to never decriminalizing illegal drugs in Toronto as she did with her failed, insane drug policy in British Columbia. She was asked whether she is not going to bring it forward in Toronto, and she cannot answer the question. I am going to give her one more opportunity: Will the minister commit to never decriminalizing drugs, going forward, in Toronto?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, I would kindly ask the member to check her language in the stigmatization of those who need our help in addressing substance use and addictions.

On this side of the House, we deal with facts, with experts, with evidence and with health care systems, and we will continue to work—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The hon. member for Thornhill.

[Melissa Lantsman, Conservative, Thornhill, ON]

Madam Speaker, I am going to ask this one last time tonight: Will the minister commit to not decriminalizing illegal drugs in Toronto going forward? The people of Toronto want to know what she is going to do in her own community, because she has already let down B.C.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, the City of Toronto knows that it needs health care services from the province and that it needs to work collaboratively with all levels of government to save lives and address those people who use substances.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Madam Chair, is diversion being tracked?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, Minister of Mental Health and Addictions and Associate Minister of Health]

Madam Chair, according to DASA, it is being tracked, and the RCMP—