Debates of May 29th, 2024

Department of Health—Main Estimates, 2024-25

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Chair, I wonder if the minister could answer this for Canadians: Has heroin been legally imported in Canada in the last five years?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, as a physician, the member should well know that heroin is used in the standard practice of medicine in terms of pain management.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Chair, oddly enough, I did have a pain clinic for 15 years, and that is not true.

Anyway, that being said, did Fair Price Pharma import 15 kilograms of heroin into Canada in November 2021?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, just to correct the record, it is true that heroin is used in medical practice. However, no, Health Canada did not import 15 kilograms of heroin.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Chair, has any private firm been granted a dealer's licence to legally possess, produce, sell and distribute opium or heroin in Canada?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, there are licence-holders who can import for research purposes.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Chair, that is not what I asked, but “legally possess, produce, sell and distribute opium and heroin in Canada”, were the words. Yes or no.

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, as mentioned, they have been licensed for research purposes, so the answer would be no.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Chair, Canadians should know that Sunshine Earth Labs was granted such a dealer's licence in January 2023. Has any private firm been licensed to legally produce, sell or distribute cocaine in Canada?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

No, Madam Chair.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Chair, that is absolutely untrue. Sunshine Earth Labs was granted a license in November 2022.

How about Ecstasy?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Again, Madam Chair, Health Canada licences are for research purposes only.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Chair, that is untrue. In January 2024, they were allowed to manufacture up to 20 kilograms of Ecstasy.

How many applications for a dealer's licence are currently pending?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, I would be more than happy to get back to the member with an exact answer from officials.

[Stephen Ellis, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester, NS]

Madam Chair, would the minister reject further licences for MDMA, or Ecstasy, cocaine and heroin?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, York Centre, ON]

Madam Chair, as heroin, as mentioned before, is used for medical purposes, we cannot withhold those licenses. However, we will continue to work to ensure there are strict regulatory mechanisms in place.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Minister of Indigenous Services and Minister responsible for the Federal Economic Development Agency for Northern Ontario]

Madam Chair, it is such an opportunity to speak tonight in this important conversation about health care and health outcomes in this country. I have been listening all night to the questions and answers on a broad range of health-related issues, and the pattern of questions from the Conservative Party members all have a similar theme.

On the one hand, Conservative members have questioned the federal government about investments that they feel have not been ambitious enough, like the member of Parliament for Bay of Quinte, who implied that the federal government has not spent enough to help the Province of Ontario deliver effective treatment for substance use disorders, yet he has voted against every measure to support the over $600 million to Ontario to do exactly that. No wonder Premier Ford is worried about what a Conservative federal government would do if they were elected.

It is important that the federal government continues to support communities across the country, yet, despite their rhetoric, it is clear that the members opposite do not support any of the measures that doctors, community health providers, law enforcement professionals, researchers or even other orders of government say are critically important to save lives and to help people reach toward the light of recovery.

However, people like Carolyn Karle in Thunder Bay, who lost her daughter Dayna almost a year into Dayna's recovery, know that recovery is fragile and that compassion, love and ongoing support are what it takes to recover from substance use addiction. Her daughter Dayna relapsed on alcohol one night, took one dose of a substance that she thought was cocaine and died of an opioid overdose that night, in her own bedroom, like the majority of people who die of opioid overdose: alone. This devastating tragedy left her mother determined to help others who struggle with substance use disorder, a condition that far too many of us know is chronic and reoccurring, but treatable.

Lest we think it is only substance use disorder treatment that the Conservatives are opposing, they have also voted en bloc against pharmacare and the Canadian dental care plan. No matter what Canadians need or ask for, Conservatives' main response is that they are on their own, yet Canadians have always believed in taking care of each other. Indeed, if we ask Canadians what they think sets our country apart from others, many will say it is our public health care system.

That is the difference here. We see an ongoing pattern of attack on the health of Canadians who need the most help, those who cannot afford medication, those who have lived with dental pain and decay for years, those who need care for their sons and daughters to keep them alive another day as they strive to heal from the burden and trauma of substance use, yet what I still hear, despite the Conservatives' insistence on abandoning each other, is a deep and abiding love by Canadians of their neighbours, friends and community members. It is what I love the most about this country: a deep commitment to each other that sets us apart from many other places in the world.

The questions tonight have ranged from ill-informed, like the member for Souris—Moose Mountain, who failed to understand the jurisdictional right and responsibility of provinces to improve health care, to the many others, including the member for Thornhill, who implied that the government should not ever meet with diverse experts, companies and stakeholders. As a member of Parliament and a minister, it is my job to hear diverse perspectives, even the ones I do not agree with, on a range of issues. This line of questioning implies some stakeholders should be shut out from their representatives because we do not agree with them. By the way, it is indicative of the record under the previous Harper government.

In my former role as health promotion planner in Thunder Bay, I was the author of a grant proposal to Health Canada. Stephen Harper was the prime minister and Leona Aglukkaq was the health minister. Thunder Bay wanted to develop a drug strategy that would help coordinate its efforts to reduce substance-related harms. The funding program prohibited proposals that included harmful alcohol or opioid use. Imagine that. It was the two most harmful substances that constituents in Thunder Bay and around Canada were facing, and the then Conservative government refused projects across the country that dealt with any of them. We lost a decade in this work, as the leadership on opioid use was missing. To treat substance use and reduce related harms for people and communities, there really is not one silver bullet.

The Thunder Bay drug strategy was modelled on evidence and advice that says to save lives and reduce harm to people and communities, the four pillars of prevention, treatment, enforcement and harm reduction must be in place. Indeed, our community added a fifth, housing, because it became clear that a place to call home was the foundation of healing. I note that Conservative members have voted against housing measures as well.

Last fall, our government launched the renewed Canadian drugs and substances strategy, which offers a comprehensive, collaborative, compassionate and evidence-based drug policy. Using the advice of the Canadian drugs and substances strategy, informed by the cross-section of professionals needed to address this issue, the Government of Canada announced over $1 billion in funding, including almost $600 million, through Health Canada's substance use and addictions program. This money supports community-based treatment, harm reduction, prevention and stigma reduction. That is money going directly to the front line of supporting people and their families to heal. The money funds research and surveillance initiatives and supports stronger law enforcement capacity to address illegal drug production and trafficking.

Despite the concern that some Conservative members have raised tonight about enforcement and safety, like the member for Cariboo—Prince George, and the member for Kelowna—Lake Country, Conservative members have consistently voted against funding support for enforcement activities. I guess they do not believe in putting the money where their mouths are.

Tonight, we have heard recriminations about not doing enough to save lives. In 2016, there was only one supervised consumption site in Canada and Stephen Harper tried over and over to shut it down. Thankfully, the courts agreed that the lives of drug users matter too. Since then, our focus on life-saving means that we have approved 41 of these sites in British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Quebec. At these sites there are workers, who, I have to say, are really amazing, hard workers. They are on the front lines of witnessing suffering. I want to take a moment to thank them right now for that incredibly gruelling work. These workers have prevented more than 53,000 overdoses, with close to 4.5 million visits. That is a lot of people who want to live that these Conservative members say do not matter.

From substance use treatment to dental care, to coverage for birth control and diabetes medication, to support for provinces and territories to bolster their health care systems over and over, the Conservative members vote against. It is hard not to see these questions tonight as being cynical. Canadians have always rallied around each other and taken care of each other. The idea that some lives do not matter, that our children do not deserve absolutely any measure that saves lives, is opposite to the Canadian way.

I have these questions for the ministers. First, to the Minister of Health, can you share why diabetes medication was chosen as one of the first medications to be covered by the national pharmacare plan?

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

I want to remind the hon. minister that she is to address questions and comments through the Chair and not directly to the minister.

The hon. Minister of Health.

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Minister of Health]

Madam Chair, it is precisely because diabetes is a precursor illness, that diabetes, when improperly managed, leads to heart disease, stroke, blindness, kidney failure and amputation. It is unfortunately right now costing, as of the latest estimate, from 2018, $28 billion to our health system. It is estimated in a 10-year period to increase to $37 billion.

We have to turn the tide. We need to make sure that people are effectively managing their diabetes so that we do not get those bad outcomes, so that it costs the system less. Fundamentally, it really is an issue of prevention.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, my second question is about a shelter I ran in Thunder Bay, It offered a needle exchange program supported by the local health unit. We wanted to help with the program's goals of reducing HIV and hepatitis C transmission, and collect used needles more safely.

Can the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions share why, despite the attack of federal Conservative members, provinces, including those with Conservative premiers, continue to fund this essential public health measure?

[Ya'ara Saks, Liberal, Minister of Mental Health and Addictions and Associate Minister of Health]

Madam Chair, I thank the Minister of Indigenous Services for her compassion. It is so important for us to remember what it means to be Canadian right now. We hold each other together, and we are holding each other through many challenging things right now, including the tragic lives lost through the overdose crisis. This is where we step up and throw everything we have got at it.

What is amazing about harm reduction and needle exchange is that it is not new. It has been around as an evidence-based, proven way to meet people where they are at, to open the door for them to come inside and get help. When people offer an extended hand and say to come on inside and ask what someone needs, what is the first thing someone needs? They need a clean needle. Let us talk about why they are using that needle. Let us talk about how we get them to a healthier place. Harm reduction is nothing new.

On the other side of the bench, they stigmatize. They talk about this in terms of their loved ones being criminals, that they should go back to dark corners and hide what they are struggling with, hide their struggle with substance use and the disease of addiction. We know that needle exchanges and safe consumption sites bring people into health care. They walk into that place. We are not just talking about saving lives. We are talking about getting them the health services they need with the compassion and care that they deserve.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, contraceptives are not universally accessible, despite being a mainstay of reproductive choice. I cannot imagine my life if I had not been able to choose when I would have children, and yet Conservative members of Parliament have voted against this measure, as well as many of them being greenlit by anti-choice organizations. Women are depending on the Canadian government to protect their freedom.

How will this coverage help?

[Mark Holland, Liberal, Ajax, ON]

Madam Chair, I thank my friend and colleague for her advocacy in this space, both in her public and private life. The truth is that it is very frustrating, beyond frustrating, to watch some of the members across the way who hold three positions simultaneously. First, they are against choice. They believe that a woman should not have autonomy over her own body and make a choice with respect to abortion. Second, they are voting against women being able to have access to the contraceptive medicine they need to be able to make their own choice about their body and when they would start a family. Third, they will not speak openly or honestly about sex or sexual education.

If one is against all three of those things, then, plainly stated, one is against a woman's sexual freedom or health generally. We know that misinformation and stigma is disastrous. We also know that for too many women who do not have the means, they are forced into a circumstance, to use contraceptives that are available and are cheaper, but less effective. To give a very clear example, oral contraceptives have a failure rate of 9%. We know that an IUD has a failure rate of 0.2% but so many women cannot make the choice to have an IUD because it is too expensive, which means that they lose, in many instances, control over when they start their family. That is fundamentally about freedom. In my view, it is fundamentally wrong. I hope that the action we are taking here is seen as complementary to our action generally, to make sure that women have control over their sexual health and their reproductive freedom.

[Patty Hajdu, Liberal, Thunder Bay—Superior North, ON]

Madam Chair, my last question would be for the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions. I would like to hear her thoughts about the stigmatization of people who use substances other than alcohol, yet the attitude of many Conservative members around further liberalization of alcohol use—

[The Deputy Chair, NDP, Carol Hughes]

We are out of time but I will allow the hon. minister to respond briefly.