Debates of June 13th, 2024

Supplementary Estimates (A), 2024-25

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that if you seek it, you will find agreement amongst the parties to apply the results of the previous vote to this vote, with Liberal members voting yea.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, Conservatives agree, and Conservatives will be voting no.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Québécois agrees to apply the vote and will be voting in favour.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the NDP agrees, and we will be voting yes.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Greens agree, and we will be voting yes.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #823

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

I declare the motion carried.

[Anita Anand, Liberal, Oakville, ON]

moved that the bill be read the third time and passed.

[Ruby Sahota, Liberal, Brampton North, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that if you seek it, you will find agreement to apply the results of the previous vote to this vote, with Liberal members voting yea.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Mr. Speaker, the Conservatives agree to apply the vote and will be voting no.

[Yves Perron, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Speaker, the Bloc Québécois agrees to apply the vote and will be voting in favour.

[Heather McPherson, NDP, Edmonton Strathcona, AB]

Mr. Speaker, the New Democratic Party of Canada members agree to apply the vote, and we will be voting yes.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the Green Party agrees to apply the vote and will be voting yes.

(The House divided on the motion, which was agreed to on the following division:)

Vote #824

[The Speaker, Liberal, Greg Fergus]

I declare the motion carried.

(Bill read the third time and passed)

A motion to adjourn the House under Standing Order 38 deemed to have been moved.

Correctional Service of Canada

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Mr. Speaker, on May 31, I asked the following question:

...with respect to the dairy barn at the Joyceville correctional institution that is scheduled to open in July, number one, what was the original budgeted cost? Number two, what is the actual cost? Number three, has dairy quota been made available by Dairy Farmers of Ontario? If so, what are the contract details and how much will that cost? Finally, will any of the milk that is produced be entered into the general supply for public consumption?

I will give some details. When the restoration of the Joyceville prison farm program was announced in 2018, Mr. Goodale, who was then the minister in charge of corrections, stated that the authorization came with three conditions, of which the first two were, “staying within the budget of $4.3 million over five years, [and] being implemented in a timely fashion.” The first of these conditions was breached almost instantly. In May 2018, the cost was revised upwards by more than 100%, to $9.75 million. In October 2018, this was changed to $15.2 million, three times what it had been less than a year earlier, but that was just the beginning.

In July 2019, this estimate was again adjusted to $18 million, and internal documents from the time contained a notation stating that this estimate required further review as each project's scope of work had yet to be confirmed. In January 2020, the estimate was again increased, this time to $20 million, and in May 2020, it was increased to $21.08 million. By September 2020, internal documents showed that costs would hit $25.9 million, which, if anyone is keeping track, is five times the original estimate. Finally, in March 2021, the goat dairy that was driving many of these cost increases was put on hold, although, I will note, it was never formally cancelled, and it is still an open question, as to whether Correctional Service Canada intends to open a goat dairy as well.

Regarding the issue of dairy quota for cow's milk, I am aware that a few months ago, Correctional Service Canada said that there were only 12 dairy cows in the herd housed at Collins Bay, and at that time, CSC still did not have an agreement for the purchase of milk quota. The facility is designed to house 30 cows and, supposedly, is to be used for research quota. CSC has stated that this research would be shared between two universities and that the quota is currently being negotiated, but McGill University and the University of Guelph are unwilling to comment on this arrangement.

Therefore, can the minister confirm where the quota is coming from, how much it will cost and what it will be used for. Finally, can the minister guarantee that milk produced using inmate, labour-paid prison wages, which are far below the minimum wage, will never enter the regular milk supply stream for human consumption?

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety]

Madam Speaker, I am thankful for the opportunity to stand in the House today to speak to the rehabilitative benefits provided by Correctional Service of Canada's penitentiary agricultural program.

Since it was reopened in 2018, the penitentiary agricultural program at Joyceville and Collins Bay institutions have worked to help federal inmates gain employment skills to find meaningful employment in the community upon their safe, gradual release. I recently visited the institution with the minister, as well as the member for Kingston and the Islands.

The farm operations at these two sites provide on-the-job and vocational training that is both technical, as it relates to the agricultural industry, and transferable to other industries. In addition to employability skill development, which supports offenders in their reintegration, inmates at these farms perform activities building and renovating necessary infrastructure, as well as work to repair and rebuild farmland, in addition to working in crop production. These activities mirror the work that take place on agricultural lands all across the country, which employ tens of thousands of people at any given time. In addition, the Collins Bay and Joyceville farms work to enhance a safe reintegration of offenders in our community, when it is safe to do so, while also working to reduce recidivism.

I am proud to note that, through the programming provided at these farms and delivered through CORCAN more generally, Correctional Service Canada is recognized as an international leader in the development and delivery of correctional interventions. We know that inmates who participate in CORCAN employment programs while incarcerated, including at the farms, are more likely to obtain employment in the community, and offenders who find jobs in the community are three times less likely to return to custody for a new offence.

Considering the successes associated with the penitentiary agricultural program at Joyceville and Collins Bay Institutions, I am pleased to note that the implementation of the dairy barn is expected to be completed in July 2024, with dairy operations to begin in September 2024.

In response to the question from the member for Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, I can confirm that products generated through the agricultural program, including milk, produce, crops and other potential byproducts of these operations, will be determined by internal use requirements prior to looking at external markets. This includes agreements and contracts signed as implementation occurs and products become available.

The Correctional Service of Canada continually re-evaluates its operations and takes into account elements such as sustainability and market availability, as dairy cow milk will be managed in accordance with Canada's system of supply management. With regard to the quota, CSC continues to negotiate an agreement with its partners. All revenues generated will be reinvested into the offender employment and employability program. To date, CSC has invested approximately $20 million for facilities and incurred $6 million in expenditures for the implementation and operations, which include the penitentiary agricultural program, and this is in addition to the $1.7 million invested in capital equipment.

[Scott Reid, Conservative, Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, ON]

Madam Speaker, one of the questions I asked was whether the minister can confirm where the quota is coming from, how much it will cost and what it will be used for. I would like an answer to that question.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Madam Speaker, as I pointed out, this program is important for inmates in the employability program. It is to ensure that we reduce recidivism. The member opposite seems to have a real problem with CSC's work to help promote employability among the inmate population. We know that inmates who are able to find meaningful employment in their communities after they serve their sentence are three times less likely to commit another offence.

While we invest in programs to help create safer communities, the member opposite stands from a place of privilege and does not want to help support reducing recidivism.

Housing

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Madam Speaker, before I begin my question tonight, I would like to take a moment to say that Kelowna lost a great community leader, Gerald Geen, on June 7.

Gerald was an orchardist, horticulturalist, teacher and realtor, and he gave back to and served our community in many ways. I knew Gerald to be intellectual and generous, a class act who always had a grin and a sparkle in his eyes. My heart goes out to his wife Kay and all his family and those who knew him. He will be dearly missed.

Now, to the question at hand, I am here tonight to speak to an issue that is important to residents of my community in Kelowna—Lake Country and to all Canadians, and this is Canada's housing crisis.

I would like to quote some numbers from a recent RBC housing affordability report, which stated that as of October 2023, a household earning a median income needed to spend 63.5% of it just to cover the cost of owning an average home. In 2015, that number was 39.3%, and that is lower than even the long-term average of 41.4%.

Upon looking at the chart for the Vancouver area, I see that it is about 140% of household earnings for a single detached home. In Vancouver, it now takes 106.4% of a median household income to own a home. These numbers are staggering. It is no wonder that young people across Canada are losing hope of ever owning a home.

Since 2015, rents have doubled, mortgage payments have doubled and the amount that someone would need to save for a down payment has more than doubled. The CMHC states that housing starts are down and will continue to be down for the foreseeable future.

As well, we now hear that chronic homelessness is up 38%, and the federal housing advocate referred to homeless encampments as “a physical manifestation of exactly how broken our housing and homelessness system is” across Canada. The Liberals put Infrastructure Canada in charge of the government's program for reducing and ending chronic homelessness. However, Infrastructure Canada has not adopted reducing or ending chronic homelessness as a performance indicator for its homelessness program, which is listed as one of its core responsibilities.

We are conducting a study right now at the housing committee. Many witnesses have come and spoken to this committee. One example is a roofing contractor expert, who said that costs are through the roof. Many other witnesses have laid out how the Liberals' housing plan to build 3.87 million homes by 2031 is not achievable and that the numbers are not reasonable.

We know that the Bank of Canada has confirmed that Canadians will see a steep jump in payments as millions of Canadians renew their mortgages over the next few years. This just makes it more difficult for people to keep their home or for those who want to get into a home. This is an important issue that we need to keep talking about in this place.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Housing]

Madam Speaker, I work with the hon. colleague on the House of Commons committee responsible for housing. We disagree on fundamental issues relating to housing policy, but I will say that she has the respect of our colleagues on that committee, including myself. The way she began her speech tonight shows the passion she has for her community and the job she does in the House of Commons.

The member mentioned young people, for example; here is where the disagreements begin. She talked about down payments. The current government has recognized that it is difficult for young people, in particular, to put together a down payment to buy a home; therefore, we have created a tax-free account, where up to $40,000 can be put toward buying a first home. In fact, 750,000 Canadians have opened up an account to do exactly that.

The Conservatives do not approve of that approach. They voted against that specific action. When it comes to apartments, young people are in search of apartments, for example, as are many Canadians. Rent is expensive. We need more supply of apartments, in particular, to bring down the cost of rent. The government has waived the GST off the construction of apartments for the middle class, for young people, but the Conservatives opposed that.

In fact, she mentioned the housing committee and the work it is doing. We heard from a witness the other day, and she knows this very well, that the approach is not in line with doing what is needed to add supply in the housing crisis we face. They want to maintain GST on the construction of apartments. It makes no sense.

When it comes to building more homes, we have to embrace a vision of missing middle housing. By that I mean duplexes, triplexes, fourplexes, row houses and mid-rise apartments.

The deputy leader of the Conservative Party made clear, on a yacht no less, that they do not have that vision. I shared that in the House of Commons during question period a few weeks ago. They do not embrace a vision of building more homes, of building the missing middle homes. They want to side with the not-in-my-backyard types, the NIMBYs. It is an unacceptable approach if one is serious about addressing the housing crisis.

Finally, the colleague talked about challenges Canadians will have with renewing their mortgage. I worry about that as well, but where is the Conservative Party to offer the types of supports we are actually able to offer? The Bank of Canada sets interest rates, and I am glad to see that it recently introduced a rate cut. I hope that will follow; I think it will. We will see.

However, where is the Conservative Party on offering the types of supports the government can actually control on child care, dental care, pharmacare and a national school food program? There are still 400,000 kids going to school hungry every day. That is not acceptable. The Conservatives propose nothing but cuts to address that situation, that challenge; that is unacceptable in this country. Their approach is not serious. They do not care.

[Tracy Gray, Conservative, Kelowna—Lake Country, BC]

Madam Speaker, I want to bring up that housing is incredibly important here in Canada. We know we are in a housing crisis. This has been identified. We are doing this housing study right now at the housing committee, and Conservatives are committed to continuing to work on this through the summer.

Is the hon. member's government, his Liberal group on the committee, going to be supporting the motion I put forth today, along with my Conservative colleagues, calling on our committee to sit over the summer? I will not read it in detail, but the motion basically outlines how we could have meetings. We have been very flexible with the dates so that it can work for everyone and so that we can continue this conversation about the housing crisis over the summer. It is very important.

[Peter Fragiskatos, Liberal, London North Centre, ON]

Madam Speaker, as the member knows, I am always happy to speak about housing and to work on that committee, so I look forward to working with the member on these issues. Of course, the specific matter she raises is a matter for the committee to take up. Speaking of that committee, the committee has also heard about challenges relating to getting homes built, specifically on things such as permitting.

I raise this because of the housing accelerator fund, which that party stands against and, unfortunately, the member has voted against; this meant that the funding support Kelowna needs to see would not have flowed if Conservatives were in power. It did flow because we made the decision to fund Kelowna's application under the housing accelerator fund. Kelowna gets funding to modernize its permit application, using AI to get fast approvals. She is against that, evidently.

[The Assistant Deputy Speaker, NDP, Carol Hughes]

The motion to adjourn the House is now deemed to have been adopted. Accordingly the House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 10 a.m. pursuant to Standing Order 24(1).

(The House adjourned at 12:08 a.m.)