Debates of June 4th, 2024

Opposition Motion—Measures to Lower Food Prices

[Tim Louis, Liberal, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his speech, and also thank him for the work he has done. We worked well together on the agriculture committee. We talked about a school food nutrition program and the importance of that. We talked about it for people who are food-insecure.

Can the member expand on how this can also help our local farmers to supply food to our local communities, which will help to keep the cost down?

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I very much enjoyed working alongside my colleague on the agriculture committee.

I have talked on numerous occasions in the House about my past career as an educator, both as a teacher and as a school principal. I am so proud that the government is following through on its commitment to establish a national school food program. This is going to be an immensely important policy in terms of benefiting the students I used to teach, their families and those who will come after them, as far as their health and their future is concerned.

I cannot remember who across the way mentioned this, but it was a fair point. There is a fairly significant amount of food waste in this country. I think there are lots of ways we can work with farmers, food producers, school divisions, local governments and provincial governments to help ensure there is less food wasted in this country. When there are excesses in the system, they can be passed on to those who are most in need, including children in schools.

[Mike Morrice, Green, Kitchener Centre, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the member for Winnipeg South Centre speaks of excesses. One of the realities is we have excess profits in both the oil and gas industry, and among large grocers.

I can appreciate there are some words in this motion that might lead it to be one that the member might not be able to support. I would like to understand from him more about a specific measure, and that is placing a windfall profit tax on grocers. The government placed a windfall profit tax on banks and life insurance companies in the midst of the pandemic. He might know I have put forward a motion to do the same when it comes to the oil and gas companies that are gouging Canadians at the pumps. We could raise $4.2 billion if we were to do that. We could apply the same measure to the large grocers that are gouging his constituents, as well as mine.

Would the member share his thoughts on the possibility of, and his interest in advocating for, an excess profit tax on grocers?

[Ben Carr, Liberal, Winnipeg South Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, one of the things that we did hear on the study on food price stabilization that was undertaken at the agriculture and agri-food committee was that it was not entirely clear where some of the profits were being derived from. The margins on food, we heard, were not all that large, but a lot of the profits came from some non-food-related items. For example, that could be things like pharmaceuticals and other everyday items. I would be interested in looking at that report and understanding a little more, but I do not disagree that there is a pretty significant amount that CEOs are earning.

I do appreciate, as well, when the member talked about the oil and gas industry, that so much of the conversation that has been attacking a price on pollution has been talking about the increase at the pump. However, so much of the increase that we are seeing at the pump is coming from the oil and gas industry. I am always open to learning more. I am not sure I would agree fully with my colleague about the excess windfall tax, but there are some points there I certainly do take.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

It is good to see my neighbour, the member for Kings—Hants. Hopefully, he can talk about the Apple Blossom Festival and, of course, the chicken dinner in Woodville that I missed, but I know the hon. member was at.

The hon. member for Kings—Hants.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to be in the House to debate and discuss initiatives presented by my opposition colleagues. Today, we are debating an NDP motion that was moved by the hon. member for Cowichan—Malahat—Langford.

The Deputy Speaker said that extremely well and we will have this exchange. The 90th Apple Blossom Festival just took place in the Annapolis Valley. I think that the Deputy Speaker was not able to get home for it, but I know he was there in spirit. I will take the opportunity to recognize that the Apple Blossom Festival was created in 1933 as a way to celebrate our agricultural heritage in the Annapolis Valley and also to market our world-class Annapolis Valley apples. It was great. I thank all of the sponsors and the volunteers who helped make that available.

There was the 50th anniversary of the Woodville chicken barbecue. I think about people like Ron Rafuse and Alice VanHattem and all the volunteers, the army of volunteers, as well as Dan Keddy, as the president of the Woodville Community Centre. Good on them.

I thank the Deputy Speaker for teeing that up for me accordingly.

I will now talk about the motion before us today. It consists of measures and initiatives proposed by the NDP that target food prices. When I saw the motion moved by the member for Cowichan—Malahat—Langford, I was not convinced that the initiatives presented by the NDP would really lower grocery prices.

The motion lays out three points. Point (a) calls on the government to “force big grocery chains and suppliers to lower the prices of essential foods or else face a price cap”. We can discuss that initiative. Point (b) calls on the government to “stop delaying long-needed reforms to the Nutrition North program”, and point (c) calls on the government to “stop Liberal and Conservative corporate handouts to big grocers”.

I am the chair of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, and I do not see any measures for our farmers in this motion. Farmers around the world, particularly those in Canada, are having a really hard time right now, because of labour shortages, the effects of climate change and the high prices resulting from the war in Ukraine, the war in the Middle East and other factors. In my opinion, it is very important to present specific initiatives for our farmers, not just partisan elements from the NDP.

I will talk about the price cap. This is something that we have dealt with before in the country. During World War II, there was intervention from the government to establish a variety of prices across the board. I do not know if all Canadians are at that point but I think it is important for parliamentarians to understand that we have to be balanced when we are talking about the conversation on food prices. Yes, I think we can highlight and ask large retailers to do more to reduce prices at retail, but we have to be careful not to push those cost savings down on the margins of farmers. When we talk in this way, sometimes the agriculture community asks about its ability to make a profit and its ability to return money. What about that dynamic?

Of course, we have heard a lot of testimony before the agriculture committee about the actual margins in grocery. They range between 2% and 4%. Could those margins be lower? I think anyone here could have an opinion and say that, yes, they could be lower or they could be higher. It is really subjective. Certainly, the actual gross profit in the sector has grown and there are moral and ethical questions about how much profit is too much.

I will give the NDP credit on that idea, but the price cap becomes an interesting question of whether the Government of Canada is the best constitutional authority to implement those types of price caps, whether that is better suited under the Constitution at the provincial level and whether that can be done without having a major impact from putting price caps and price mechanisms through the entire supply chain for the agriculture and agri-food processing sector. Those are some reflections that are not really well articulated in today's opposition day motion and those points would have to be borne out before we could ever move in that direction.

I want to talk about other initiatives that are important to our farmers. I mentioned the impact of climate change. In the Annapolis Valley, extreme storms, extreme cold and hurricanes in the Atlantic are causing problems for our farmers. This is having a direct impact on their products. We are having conversations at the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food about the importance of improving the risk management programs.

When the Conservatives were in government, Mr. Harper slashed programs that were very important to our producers. I am talking about risk management programs, specifically agri-stability and agri-insurance. It is important to study these initiatives for our farmers.

With regard to the horticulture sector, I think it is also important to explore how the federal, provincial and territorial governments are going to find a way to increase the supply of local vegetables and fruit, particularly for the apple and vegetable sectors.

We think about our hospital system and education system, and I certainly applaud the government in its work to establish a national school food program. It is long overdue. We were the only G7 country without it and this is going to help make a difference on the affordability for individuals to access healthy, local food, but I think we can do more on procurement. It is a tough line. We have to be careful because we have trading relationships and we are a trading nation, but we have an ability to buy vegetables and fruits that otherwise could not find their way to the market, and we can find this in an affordable context in an institutional procurement setting.

I also want to elaborate a bit on the programs that highlight how important foreign workers are for the horticulture sector. We need to improve the permit process for the use of pesticides and other necessary farm products and tools.

I introduced Bill C-359, which is further down on the order of precedence for private member's bills. However, I hope the government will consider some initiatives in that area. I think that is important.

I must admit that I would need more than 10 minutes to discuss this very complex issue.

Finally, when it comes to the connection between our farmers and grocery store prices, what comes to mind is a code of conduct. It is very important to introduce and implement a code of conduct, an agreement between farmers, the links in the supply chain and Canada's grocery giants. It is important to create a good relationship within the supply chain.

I am going to leave it at that. All parliamentarians should be calling on major grocers to join the grocery code of conduct.

[Richard Lehoux, Conservative, Beauce, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech and congratulate him on his excellent French.

He said that today's motion does not propose any solutions that would help farmers in a way that would then have a direct impact on food prices for consumers.

My esteemed colleague and I are both members of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, which studied a bill that had been introduced here in the House of Commons. Bill C-234 was making its way through the legislative process, but as we know, this bill has stalled.

As the chair of the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food, could my colleague encourage his fellow government members to vote to bring this bill back in its original form, which would give our agriculture sector a major boost?

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, Bill C‑234 is important to our farmers. That is exactly why I voted in favour of that motion.

The bill stands in the name of the member for Huron—Bruce, a Conservative member. I would remind my hon. colleague that I was frustrated with how the Conservatives moved this bill forward. Quarrels were started and threats were made against senators by the member for Regina—Qu'Appelle and by the leader of the Conservative Party in the Senate, which then required an apology for their behaviour in the Senate.

Consequently, yes, I absolutely think this bill is important. I hope that the member for Huron—Bruce will bring this bill forward for a vote soon. However, I want to reiterate that the Conservatives are also responsible for the mishandling of this bill.

[Andréanne Larouche, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech in French.

I know he chairs the Standing Committee on Agriculture and Agri-Food. Today's motion is about the cost of food. I represent a rural riding, where the economy depends heavily on agriculture.

Every year—every day—I, like my colleague from Berthier—Maskinongé, invite my colleague to talk to farmers. Climate change and rising input costs have a significant impact on the cost of food. The federal government can play a role in all this, but it is failing to meet farmers' needs and expectations at this point. Farmers want protection for supply management, a review of the AgriStability and AgriInvest programs, reciprocity of standards at the border and help overcoming problems caused by the climate crisis.

Farmers need help. When will the federal government do something?

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, it is indeed important for members from rural ridings to work together in the House of Commons to support our farmers. I agree that we need to provide more support for our farmers.

However, I would remind my colleague of this government's initiatives, including increased funding for the provinces and territories to help our farmers under the Canadian agricultural partnership and increased funding for risk management, because the Conservative government did away with that program.

It is very important to have initiatives to support farmers and help them deal with unforeseen events and climate change. It is very important to ensure that we have tools in place to help businesses recover.

I will continue to work with the member for Shefford and the others on the issue of agriculture.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Speaker, nine months ago, the Prime Minister told the big grocery retailers that they had to stabilize prices or they were going to face consequences, such as taxation. It has been nine months, yet the result has been nothing.

In France, where people are also suffering from massive food price inflation, the government managed to broker a deal with 75 of the biggest food companies that agreed to lower their prices, not stabilize them but lower them. The deal covers 5,000 different food products.

I am just wondering whether my colleague could compare and contrast the two different approaches. Why do the French people seem to have a government that goes to bat for them and manages to force the big food companies to actually lower their prices, while here the Prime Minister simply asks politely and receives absolutely no action in return?

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Mr. Speaker, I will be quick because that was an important question. I know the question of food prices right now is a top-of-mind issue for all Canadians. I want to remind my hon. colleague that the Prime Minister was asking retailers, and working with them, to try to stabilize food price inflation, which has happened. Food price inflation has stabilized; that is true about the inflation piece.

Are the prices too high for some average Canadians? Absolutely. I think that raises the question of why the NDP would present a motion here today that would have absolutely zero support for Canadian farmers. How does it think we are going to get to lower prices? Yes, of course we can put in measures to try to help push major retailers, but we also have to try to lower costs for farmers and make sure that there are initiatives in place.

I want to just address the example of France. The French government has huge interventions in the entire supply chain of the French agriculture community. If we want to go down that route, we can, but the member is truly comparing apples to oranges because of the dynamic of how the French agriculture sector works. I would be happy to discuss with him further after this.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

It is my duty, pursuant to Standing Order 38, to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Kitchener Centre, Housing; the hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, Public Services and Procurement; and the hon. member for Saskatoon—Grasswood, Taxation.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, it is just so nice to be here again this evening.

I know the Conservatives have tried to adjourn the House, calling quorum time and time again, because they really do not want to talk about the fact that people are starving, even though very often in the House they demean folks living in tent cities in poverty, folks who happen to live in my riding, actual human beings who are often struggling with mental health and addictions. The Conservatives put them down. We are talking about the cost of living, and the Conservatives weaponize, demean and stigmatize people living in poverty.

I am glad I get to rise here today to speak to an issue that is affecting people across the country: rising food costs, rising food insecurity and rising financial insecurity, which is one of the reasons I put forward a private member's bill, Bill C-223, in support of a guaranteed livable basic income.

We know things are getting harder for people. The cost of food has increased by over 20%, and we know that one in five Canadians is skipping meals. This is nothing new in my riding, a riding that has some very serious human rights violations directly related to poverty. What I have often said is that poverty is one of the most avoidable, violent human rights violations in this country. Poverty is a violation of the Canadian charter, yet the Conservatives today are trying to have the House adjourned because they really do not care about struggling Canadians.

I have not seen any of the Conservatives fight for issues that would change the material conditions for the folks I am so proud to represent in Winnipeg Centre. I am proud to represent all my constituents, including constituents who live in tents as a result of failed housing policies and the corporate greed that has been sponsored by Conservatives and Liberals, which is something we are talking about today.

We know the grocery sector is making record profits. In 2023 it raked in $6 billion. This is unconscionable, especially in a place like the riding of Winnipeg Centre. If we want to talk about people having a hard time, a hard time is figuring out every day how one is actually going to survive. What do the Conservatives do? I am bringing this up because it is pretty grotesque the way people in my community are put down regularly, stigmatized and marginalized. They are people who are doing their very best to survive, but as a result of failed housing policies by the Conservatives and Liberals, they are now living in tents, and nobody is talking about affordable housing with rent geared to income. Nobody is talking about co-operative housing except New Democrats.

Meanwhile, the Conservatives are trying to adjourn a debate on grocery pricing, which is totally unacceptable when people are struggling to make ends meet.

I cannot remember the name of his riding, but a member is trying to heckle. He probably has big feelings about my calling out the fact that he puts down some of the most vulnerable folks in Canada, many of whom live in my riding. I have to call that out, because I was elected to stick up for people, to respect people and to ensure that people have human rights and can live in dignity, not so they can be pushed down, shamed and kicked in the face by Conservatives.

We know that Conservatives do not care. I am going to give some examples. I have a whole textbook of headlines, and I hope I do not faint and run out of breath. The first ones are “Corporate lobbyists are flocking to [the member for Carleton]'s cash-for-access fundraisers” and “A Conservative collection of Harper...scandals”. There is a good one about the Senate appointees Mike Duffy, Patrick Brazeau and Pamela Wallin. There are headlines about election scandals in 2006. There was Maxime Bernier. There are headlines about Veterans Affairs not looking after veterans; the Conservatives called that one a no-brainer.

On Afghan detainees, there was a news story about a Canadian diplomat, Richard Colvin, who appeared before a parliamentary committee and made a bombshell charge that detainees taken captive by Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan and transferred to local authorities were almost certainly being tortured and abused. Conservatives certainly do not care about newcomers to Canada and ensuring they live in dignity. There are articles about G8 funding and the $50 million spent.

Of course, let us not forget Peter MacKay, the guy who had to be rescued from a salmon fishing lodge in a private jet that cost $16,000. There is the fact that the member for Thornhill was recorded as a lobbyist for Walmart. The Conservatives were caught with the $50-million bread price-fixing scandal. There are many more examples, but I have important points to make. As I said, I just about fainted, running out of air with all the hot air I hear from the Conservatives all the time.

However, we know that some of these issues are the most severe in northern communities, which are being awfully impacted by the climate emergency. Farmers are concerned about the climate emergency because their crops are burning down. We want to talk about cost of living and things getting tough. Why do we not talk about the climate emergency and the fact that Manitoba farmers are concerned because they cannot make any money off their crops? They are literally burning to the ground.

Of indigenous households with children, 52% experience food insecurity compared to 9% of non-indigenous households. Food prices are 2.5 times higher in indigenous communities than the national average. We have heard all about nutrition north. There is the CEO of Giant Tiger, or the North West Company. Members of the Conservative Party are owners in that corporation, which is how closely tied they are, and they are making multi-millions of dollars.

The result is that many indigenous households have no choice but to rely on cheaper, less-nutritious options, such as highly saturated and processed foods, to feed their families. If we want to talk about saving money, how about ensuring that people can have access to nutritious foods so that we do not have greater costs to the health care system? Diabetes, for example, is often related to nutrition. Why do we not talk about that?

This affects dignity. It affects one's ability to live a healthy life. It causes psychological distress, and although the Liberals are talking about how they cannot put on price caps, the Liberals actually need to start talking about the fact that we need more competition. However, we do not need more grocery competition by big CEOs and these big companies, such as Metro, Loblaws or Walmart. We need more competition by supporting—

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

The hon. member for Calgary Shepard is rising on a point of order.

[Tom Kmiec, Conservative, Calgary Shepard, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I do not believe we have quorum.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

Let us do a quick count.

Let us ring the bells for a couple of seconds. Hopefully people will come back to their chairs.

And the bells having rung:

We now have quorum.

The hon. member for Winnipeg Centre has the floor.

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, this is an example of what I was talking about. I am glad of it, because I am going to put it on the record that the Conservatives do not care that people are starving. They certainly do not care about people in my riding, who are some of the poorest people in Canada. In fact, the Conservatives are trying to stop a debate on fighting for the human rights and dignity of the most marginalized in this country. They run out of the House and call quorum so that we adjourn and we do not have to talk about that, because I have given too much information about their corporate buddies.

I share all this because we know there is also an intersectionality with food insecurity. We know that, although it is an issue facing many in Canada today, the rising food prices are intersectional. According to Statistics Canada, in 2022, families with a female major income earner were more likely to be food insecure compared with those with a male major income earner.

I just want to point out that it is not surprising. Last night, the Conservative men fought violently against contraception for women. No women were talking about not paying for contraception. It was all men in the Conservative Party.

I am not sure I have to do this, but I will be splitting my time with the member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley.

Families with Black or indigenous major income earners report significantly higher levels of food insecurity than families with non-racialized or non-indigenous earners do. However, we know how much the Conservatives care about residential school. They have been quoted as residential school denialists many times, and let us not forget it.

[Kevin Lamoureux, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons]

Mr. Speaker, we have talked a great deal about trying to establish food stability in terms of prices. It is interesting when we look at the G7 countries today, in terms of the graphs. We find that the highest is Germany, followed by the United Kingdom and France. France is the country that is often cited by the New Democrats. Next is Italy and then comes Canada. The lowest two are the United States and Japan. Again, we fluctuate within that graph.

The concern I have is that, first, we need to achieve stabilization and to look at ways in which we can keep down food prices as much as we can. Having said that, the New Democrats are implying that we should be looking at putting in a price cap. Is the member concerned about the issue of supply and the impact it would have on the producers?

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I find it really, I guess, peculiar that the member is worried about that. He represents a riding, Winnipeg North, that has tons of small local grocery stores owned by very diverse communities. It is where I shop. I actually go to shop there because I find that the food prices are better.

I went to, for example, a local place on the weekend to buy my vegetables. I go to a local meat market in Winnipeg to buy all my meat. I do not want to support big grocery chains when I can avoid it. Of course, we have had consecutive Liberal and Conservative governments that really love the corporate greed stuff and supporting their corporate buddies. However, we have local producers and local grocers whom I would prefer to support, who are not ripping off people in Canada.

[Michelle Rempel, Conservative, Calgary Nose Hill, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I am concerned about the government's dogmatic adherence to one specific policy instrument with regard to reducing greenhouse gas emissions, which is the consumer carbon price levy, or the carbon tax. It does not seem to be working in terms of meeting Canada's climate targets. It has an impact on inflation, as well as food inflation. The NDP leader has had varying positions on this issue on different days. Could the member just discuss whether the juice is worth the squeeze on the consumer carbon tax, to quote a colleague friend of mine, given that it could be increasing food costs?

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

That's the problem, Mr. Speaker. Although I have enjoyed working with my colleague throughout the years, the Conservatives do not have a climate plan. If we want to talk about the rising cost of food, then we need to deal with the climate emergency.

I mentioned what is happening in Manitoba. Manitoba farmers are speaking up because they are concerned about the climate emergency. What is happening to their crops? They are burning down, because we do not have a government in place right now that has a real climate plan. Moreover, we have many people in the Conservative caucus who are still arguing that the world is flat. We want to talk about a one-size-fits-all plan. First, we need a Conservative party that will actually acknowledge that we are in a climate emergency.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Uqaqtittiji, one thing we have learned is that the nutrition north program was created by the Conservative government and is now protected by the Liberal government. Could the member share with us what the impacts of the Liberal government protecting the Conservative-created program are on the poverty levels of indigenous peoples in Canada?

[Leah Gazan, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my hon. colleague from Nunavut for her advocacy around improving human rights and material conditions for her constituents. She has been a tremendous champion.

In saying that, nutrition north is just one example of how Conservatives and Liberals have turned their backs on indigenous people. It is 2024, and we are still talking about clean drinking water. We are five years out from the national inquiry, and the Liberal government has responded to two calls for justice; former prime minister Stephen Harper said that this was not even on his radar.

We are watching kids starve while the head of nutrition north makes multi-millions of dollars. It is one of many examples of how Liberals and Conservatives have turned their backs on indigenous people, now and historically.

[The Deputy Speaker, Conservative, Chris d'Entremont]

I give my normal warning to keep our questions and answers as short as possible so that everyone can participate.

The hon. member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley.