House of Commons Hansard #345 of the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament's site.) The word of the day was documents.

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This summary is computer-generated. Usually it’s accurate, but every now and then it’ll contain inaccuracies or total fabrications.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs Members debate a Speaker's ruling on the government's failure to produce unredacted documents about Sustainable Development Technology Canada. Opposition parties demand the documents for a potential RCMP investigation into alleged corruption and conflicts of interest at the foundation, which Conservatives call a "Liberal billion-dollar green slush fund". Liberals defend their actions, citing concerns about blurring judicial independence and privacy, while Bloc and NDP members also criticize government transparency and accountability. 23800 words, 3 hours in 2 segments: 1 2.

Statements by Members

Question Period

The Conservatives criticize the government over high taxes and costs, particularly linking the carbon tax to Canadians being driven to food banks. They also raise concerns about rising crime rates, housing costs, and forestry job losses. They repeatedly call for a carbon tax election and urge support for a non-confidence motion.
The Liberals defend the price on pollution, stating 8 out of 10 families get more back and it fights climate change. They highlight support for seniors and vulnerable groups through programs like dental care and child benefits, and funding for Indigenous housing. They criticize Conservatives for false facts, lack of plans, and opposing support for Canadians.
The Bloc issues ultimatums on increasing OAS for seniors and passing Bill C-282 protecting farmers by October 29. They also highlight Quebec's overwhelmed capacity regarding asylum seekers, urging Ottawa to do its share.
The NDP highlight challenges facing Indigenous peoples, including residential school denialism, the housing crisis, and the toxic drug crisis. They also criticize Canada's inaction regarding violence in the Middle East.
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Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Mr. Speaker, to break it down, the member correctly noted that $330 million went out the door and involved conflicts of interest of board members. Not only were those cases of conflicts of interest, but in many instances, they were straight-up violations of the SDTC act, which provides that no board member shall in any way profit from the foundation. In addition to that, somewhere in the neighbourhood of $70 million improperly went out the door in violation of agreements that SDTC had with ISED, which the Minister of Industry is responsible for overseeing and failed to enforce.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1 p.m.

Liberal

Chandra Arya Liberal Nepean, ON

Mr. Speaker, my interest is the constitutional aspects of what is happening today. The RCMP and the Auditor General have expressed concerns about the blurring of the line in the separation of powers between the different branches of the government.

The hon. colleague is a lawyer by profession, if I am not wrong. With his legal background, can he can tell us what our law enforcement agencies, like the RCMP, can do if they think they need a particular document? Is there anything that bars them from getting access to the document through a legal process?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Mr. Speaker, what the order of the House required the government to do was turn over all relevant documents to the RCMP. When corruption is identified, it is appropriate to turn over that evidence to the RCMP. The RCMP can do what it wishes and pursue what it wishes based on the documents, which should have been sent to the RCMP months ago but were not thanks to the government's obstruction.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1 p.m.

Conservative

Alex Ruff Conservative Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, ON

Mr. Speaker, I just want to note some of the testimony from one of the SDTC employees, who said at committee:

...I think the current government is more interested in protecting themselves and protecting the situation from being a public nightmare. They would rather protect wrongdoers and financial mismanagement than have to deal with a situation like SDTC in the public sphere.

Could my colleague elaborate on that testimony?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Cooper Conservative St. Albert—Edmonton, AB

Mr. Speaker, the member is quite right. I highlighted the whistle-blower's testimony in my speech. Not only did the whistle-blower say that, but the whistle-blower said that the minister acted corruptly and deceptively, and that the minister was more interested in damage control. It demonstrates that the government and the minister were complicit in the corruption at SDTC and that the minister is wholly unfit to serve in the role that he carries.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, here we go again. The NDP-Liberal government, after nine years, is finding itself in another situation.

I do not know if I hear the sound of a pager beeping, but maybe the member can quiet it—

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:05 p.m.

NDP

Heather McPherson NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, that is a disgusting comment and he should be asked to retract it. It is clearly referring to the pagers that were used as weapons and took the lives of innocent people, including children. He should apologize for that, but he should also apologize for the slander he used in the chamber yesterday.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:05 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker Chris d'Entremont

I heard a lot of debate going on while the hon. member had the floor. I will let the hon. member retract that last comment before he continues.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:05 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, it is withdrawn.

The NDP is desperate to cover up for the Liberals, whom it has been propping up. All the while, their friends have been lining their pockets. NDP members, like the member from Edmonton who cannot manage to keep her voice down, have done nothing to raise their voice for Canadians who are suffering after nine years of their support for the government, which has seen corruption time after time. The member from Edmonton has done nothing to advocate for the millions of Canadians who are now using the food bank, a third of whom are children.

We hear that the NDP is supposed to fight for the downtrodden and those who need a hand up, but we have seen it turn its back on workers, on Canadians and on the hungry, and the member from Edmonton has led the charge to prop up the government that has the worst record on standing up for vulnerable Canadians. It is absolutely shameful. This is a great example, what we find ourselves in the House talking about today as a result of the member's support for the government. The NDP is allowing for hundreds of millions of dollars to line the pockets of insiders.

What does the government do as soon as it is ordered by the House to produce documents? Of course, we find that the government is turning its back on its obligation to the sacred institution of Parliament, refusing an order to produce the documents. Why is that? Well, of course, the Liberals got caught stacking a board with their friends, like the chair of the SDTC board, a friend of the Prime Minister, Annette Verschuren. What did their friend do when she got put into this place of trust, a place of privilege? She lined her pockets and the pockets of her friends, and we see that there was a finding of guilt by the Ethics Commissioner.

It is like Groundhog Day every time we talk about scandals and corruption with the Liberals. The Liberal Prime Minister is the first in Canadian history to be found guilty twice of having broken Canada's ethics laws. It is unbelievable, but that is the state of the NDP-Liberal government. It is said that a fish rots from the head down, and that is what we have seen with multiple ministers in the NDP-Liberal government who were found to have broken the law.

When it comes to the office of the Ethics Commissioner, the Prime Minister's buddy, now the public safety minister, had been found to have broken the law. However, when given the chance, when the Ethics Commissioner's office was vacated, what did the Liberals do? They appointed his sister-in-law to take over the Ethics Commissioner's office.

Every single time they get the chance to do the right thing, and we can set our watch to it, they do the absolute opposite. There is the international development minister, who was the failed housing minister; the trade minister; and the former finance minister, and the conflicts of interest go on and on.

The Liberals' solution to the economic vandalism they have perpetrated on this country, after nine years, is that they find a buddy of the Prime Minister. It is not a buddy like David Johnston of the Trudeau Foundation, who was the Prime Minister's neighbour and ski buddy and whose reputation the Liberals wanted to use to whitewash their failures to call out, detect and disrupt foreign interference in our democracy, like they did with David Johnston. It is not that kind of friend; it is a friend like Mark “carbon tax” Carney, and we could call him conflict of interest Carney, but it is almost synonymous with everyone who associates themselves with the Liberals. The conflicts of interest just follow.

It was within just days of the Liberals' naming Mark “carbon tax” Carney as the de facto finance minister that the Prime Minister's Office had taken the named finance minister and Deputy Prime Minister and started strategic leaks about how they had lost confidence in her. However, instead of firing her, they just appointed some man who is a friend of the Prime Minister and who shares his ideological bent to tax Canadians just for the crime of trying to feed themself, heat their home and put gas in their car to get to medical appointments and to their jobs.

Mark “carbon tax” Carney has a buddy who is the head of a company called Telesat. Within days of Carney's being named as the new economic adviser to the Prime Minister, his buddy at Telesat gets $2.14 billion, tax dollars. One would say that is enough of a scandal to put an end to the latest conflicted appointment, and one would wonder why the conflicts of interest of Carney are not under the purview of the same rules that designated public office holders have.

They are paying him through the Liberal Party to avoid the necessary disclosure that would have also revealed to Canadians that his company, of which he is the chair, Brookfield Asset Management, is going to benefit substantially from changes to the mortgage rules that the government made a day after the last announcement it made that was conflicted, on Telesat.

The Liberals are going to put more burden on Canadians with their changes to mortgage insurance. They have a terrible supply problem in the housing market, but they did not announce some program to solve supply. No government has ever spent so much to achieve so little as they have on housing. What did they do? They decided to increase demand.

Why on earth would they take measures to increase demand in housing during a housing supply crisis? Of course, the company of the Prime Minister's new economic adviser, Mark “carbon tax” Carney, stands to benefit financially from it. This is within just days of his being appointed. We have to wonder why the Liberals would not bring him under the umbrella of the conflict of interest regime. It is because everyone they bring under it gets found guilty of breaking it.

When we look to have audits in situations like the $60-million arrive scam, let us canvass the government benches on how the Liberals voted on having the Auditor General investigate their scandal to support Liberal insiders' grift to the tune of millions of dollars from Canadians. I am not hearing the heckles now from them about how they all voted in favour of that audit, because they did not. They voted against having the Auditor General investigate. Shame on them.

What did we find out? There was no value for money; they wasted taxpayer dollars on an app that ultimately did not work and wrongly forced 10,000 people under house arrest for weeks. Then the Liberals' buddies, the two yo-yos from GC Strategies operating out of a basement, added no value for Canadians.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:10 p.m.

An hon. member

Oh, oh!

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:10 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Are you going to defend the yo-yos?

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

September 27th, 2024 / 1:15 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, on a point of order, what we are witnessing is a litany of character assassinations on different fronts.

The issue is that the member is not necessarily being relevant to the issue of the production of papers. That is what we are supposed to be debating. We are not supposed to be engaging in the character assassination of everyone who comes to his mind who happens not to be a Conservative.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:15 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker Chris d'Entremont

The hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes has the floor. I would caution the hon. member to stay as relevant as possible.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:15 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, they would have to have character for it to be assassinated.

We hear from the parliamentary secretary always the full-court press to try to deflect from the failures of the government to exercise its fiduciary responsibility to Canadians. It is an absolute failure in that responsibility.

What is the connection between the Liberals' billion-dollar green slush fund, with which they allowed hundreds of millions of dollars to go out the door illegally, in contravention of the contribution agreement, and the $60 million arrive scam, or the Prime Minister's being found to have broken the law, or the frontbench ministers over there being found to have broken the law?

What is the connection to the WE scandal? What is the connection to conflict of interest Carney, Mark “carbon tax” Carney? What is the connection to the unwillingness of the government to recognize the will of Canadians? Of course the connection is that every time the Liberals are given the chance to do the right thing, they do the wrong thing, and that could not be more evident than it is with the motion we are dealing with.

My hon. colleague from Mégantic—L'Érable moved an amendment to the motion that the Liberals take great umbrage at, and it is very telling. They are telling on themselves when they do not support it. What is the partisan attack or the character assassination they are worried about? Let us read how mean-spirited the amendment is: “that the following witnesses be ordered to appear before the committee separately for two hours each”. Then it lists a series of government ministers.

They do not want the Minister of Innovation, Science and Industry. They do not want the Clerk of the Privy Council; the Auditor General; the commissioner of the RCMP; the Deputy Minister of Innovation, Science and Economic Development; the law clerk and parliamentary counsel of the House of Commons; the acting president of Sustainable Development Technology Canada; or a panel consisting of the board of Sustainable Development Technology Canada.

Why do the Liberals not want them to testify? Are they afraid of what they are going to say? Are they going to learn from the parliamentary law clerk that Parliament absolutely has the unfettered authority to order exactly what it did, the production of the documents to be transmitted to the RCMP? That is what they are going to find out from the parliamentary law clerk, but they are terrified of it.

Are the Liberals going to find out from ISED that their minister and their officials did not actually take action on the corruption at Sustainable Development Technology Canada, the billion-dollar green slush fund, until after Conservatives initiated a full-court press against them? That is what we are going to hear.

We are going to hear recordings of one of their officials describing it as “sponsorship...level” of corruption. That brought down a Liberal government, so maybe that is what they are worried about, the corruption and scandals that have been identified by departmental officials in their own government. Corruption is the theme, and when the member for Windsor is looking for a new job, he can actually read the AG's report and see what they found out.

They found out that they allowed it to happen, and I think about the hundreds of millions of dollars they said were for one thing but were really for another, which is the case with so many things with the current government. It is like their carbon tax, which does not reduce emissions but does increase poverty, and does not help our environment but does lengthen the lines at our food banks, their use having doubled after nine years of the NDP-Liberal government.

That is the legacy of the member for Windsor: record lines at food banks; Canadians' not being able to afford their mortgage, not being able to afford their rent and not being able to afford to put gas in their car; and food banks' having to extend their hours so people who have two jobs can come in between their two jobs to pick up food at the food bank.

It is shameful that when the Liberals have the opportunity to save a dollar by not letting it go into the pockets of insiders, they are too beholden to the Prime Minister, twice found guilty of breaking the law himself, to stand up and say they need to do the right thing; the documents need to be transmitted and sent to the RCMP. The RCMP has the option to investigate or not, which is its independent right, but why are they so afraid to send the documents?

The reason we know so much about this is that whistle-blowers came forward and exposed the corruption under the Liberals, who have been desperate to stop it from coming to light. It is not enough to have the Auditor General issue a damning report. It is not enough to have the Ethics Commissioner find the Liberals' hand-picked chair in a conflict of interest. That is not enough for them. Why? It is because it always comes down to helping Liberal insiders. It is incredible the lengths they will go to to protect those who need it the least instead of those who need it the most, Canadians, after nine years of the most unethical government in Canadian history.

Over the summer, any of the Liberals who were brave enough to knock on doors, and I am sure the member opposite was not, would have heard the same thing we heard, which is that Canadians are exhausted and see the government for exactly what it is. It is tired and costly. It has raised their taxes. It has seen crime run rampant. It has put the rights of convicted criminals ahead of those of bona fide victims. It spends more targeting those who follow the law, to the tune of tens of millions of dollars, while spending little on those who seek to engage in human trafficking, weapons trafficking and drug trafficking. That is the legacy after nine years.

There is good news, of course, which is that common-sense Conservatives have been doing their homework on the Liberals and the institutions they have corrupted, like Sustainable Development Technology Canada. Liberals will ask, “Wasn't SDTC started by Conservatives?” Yes, it was, and in 2017, it received an audit by the Auditor General and got a clean bill of health. What happened between 2017 and 2023? The Liberal Prime Minister and his accomplice, the leader of the NDP, allowed for Liberal insiders to ransack the place, push the organizational objectives aside and allow well-connected Liberal insiders to get ahead. That is not something we are going to abide. That is why we dug in.

We should look at the work that members have done to bring this to the House for a vote. However, the Liberals are so illiberal and undemocratic that when the House of Commons voted to order something to happen, the Liberals said they did not actually need to do it. What does that tell us about their respect for the rule of law, for Canadians and for the democracy that each of us has been elected into to represent Canadians here in this place? They certainly do not think much about it. They do not think much about the effect it is going to have on Canadians, unless of course those Canadians are their well-connected friends.

The motion and the amendments that have been put forward are incredibly reasonable, as was the original production order. They fall entirely inside the bounds of what this House is allowed to do and must do to ensure the confidence of Canadians in our democratic institutions.

The NDP and the Liberals can flail and wail all they like, but common-sense Conservatives are going to continue to demand accountability and answers for Canadians. When we talk about stopping the crime, we are talking about stopping these guys, because life was not like this before the NDP-Liberals and it is not going to be like it after them.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:25 p.m.

York Centre Ontario

Liberal

Ya'ara Saks LiberalMinister of Mental Health and Addictions and Associate Minister of Health

Mr. Speaker, I will take this opportunity to ask the member, since he is here and has unfortunately displayed that he is willing to diminish himself and the House with his language, if he will take the opportunity at this time to apologize and withdraw his comments levied at me yesterday that were completely unparliamentary. He has the opportunity to do the right thing.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, if ministers of the government are so ashamed of the praise and accolades their government gets, then they should not be members of that government. They should resign. It is shameful that the government's record is one that it was thanked by Hamas at a time when innocent civilians were attacked in the largest terrorist attack in modern history. That is a part of the legacy of the government. If any of those ministers are ashamed that Hamas sent them a “thank you” card, then they should resign.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker Chris d'Entremont

On a point of order, the hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:25 p.m.

Liberal

Kevin Lamoureux Liberal Winnipeg North, MB

Mr. Speaker, you have taken the issue under advisement. I think the member should be made aware that the minister he is referring to is of Jewish faith and, given her background, how much of a personal issue this is. A simple apology would would put this to rest.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker Chris d'Entremont

I ruled on this point of order earlier. When the hon. member brought the issue forward, I said we would go back and look at Hansard and come back to the chamber on it.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

There have been three points of order on it since I have been speaking—

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker Chris d'Entremont

I have the floor. Let me finish talking, then I will recognize the hon. member.

I said I would go back and look at it. I allowed the member to ask that question. The member is answering the question that was posed to him. We are still going to go back and look at what is going on.

If the hon. member accepted that I allowed the question to be asked, then everyone should allow the answer to be given.

I cut the hon. member off before he was finished, so I recognize the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, on a point of order.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:25 p.m.

Conservative

Michael Barrett Conservative Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, ON

Mr. Speaker, since I have been on my feet, you have recognized three separate points of order on something you have already undertaken a point of order on. I am wondering if the Chair can let me know how many more points of order we are going to hear during my time. The minister asked a question and I gave an answer.

I will also note that throughout my speech, the same members persisted in audible interruptions so loud that you heard me respond to them multiple times, but you did not bring the House to order. The knife cuts both ways. Let us deal with the matter at hand, unless we are going to continue the never-ending point of order session you are presiding over.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:25 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker Chris d'Entremont

I was giving the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes the full opportunity to answer that as he saw fit. I was not the one standing on points of order and stopping it. I allowed that.

In the House, when somebody stands on a point of order, I have to recognize them. It is in the Standing Orders. I can cut members off when I feel they are not points of order, which I did. I just want to move on.

I believe the hon. member for South Shore—St. Margarets is standing on a point of order.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:30 p.m.

Conservative

Rick Perkins Conservative South Shore—St. Margarets, NS

Mr. Speaker, since those were all points of order, I note that a minute and a half was taken off the question and answer period. I would ask that the clock on questions and answers be restored to 10 minutes for this member.

Reference to Standing Committee on Procedure and House AffairsPrivilegeOrders of the Day

1:30 p.m.

The Deputy Speaker Chris d'Entremont

I will give the minute and a half back to the hon. member, and we will go on to the next question.