Debates of Oct. 9th, 2025

Opposition Motion—Cost of Deficits

[Cathay Wagantall, Conservative, Yorkton—Melville, SK]

Mr. Speaker, I really appreciated hearing the comments with regard to sovereignty. I would like the member to provide the House and Canadians with a definition of what the government means by Canada being a postnational state. I think he is capable of doing this. Could he please define that?

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the member opposite commenting on my capability. That is much appreciated.

When we talk about what Canada is, it is very different from the Conservatives' vision of Canada. The Conservatives talk about the Canada that was, not the Canada that could be. On this side of the House, we talk about the Canada that could be, the Canada that can be and the Canada that will be. It is a Canada that is prosperous and dynamic, that looks at differences as strength, that invests in the economy of the future, that takes the steps required to ensure that Canadians are trained for that and that does not turn its back on Canadians in their moment of need. We do not say that when Canadians are in need, we are going to turn our back on them and say good luck. We believe in investing in Canadians.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague on his speech and his ability to focus. For a guy who celebrated his birthday yesterday and must have gone to bed very late, he seemed very focused despite the noise in the House. Good on him.

Now, he is part of a government that has given up about $90 billion in revenue, according to the most reasonable estimates. His government is still going to provide $83 billion in financial support to the oil industry over five years despite the industry's significant impact on climate change.

We have been told that the upcoming budget will include a deficit of about $100 billion, maybe more, yet the government is bragging about its AAA credit rating. Given this Liberal government's track record, does my colleague think Canada will maintain its AAA credit rating?

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my friend for his question.

In difficult times, families and governments alike must make difficult decisions. To have a more effective government with clear priorities, we may end up doing less than was done in years past. However, maintaining our fiscal position with banks and investors is also important. It is very important.

The November 4 budget will show us how the government plans to achieve that. I hope that my colleague will support our budget, because it is there to protect our economy, Canadians and Quebeckers.

[Alexis Brunelle-Duceppe, Bloc, Lac-Saint-Jean, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order.

I waited for the conversations to end but there was chatter on both sides while my colleague was asking his question. No consideration was shown for the question asked. The noise was very loud.

If people want to talk, I urge them to go outside. One member is shaking his head at me as if to say no, yet he was shouting his head off while my friend was asking a question. If he cannot behave with decorum in the House, he should go outside.

[The Deputy Speaker, Tom Kmiec]

I would remind all members that if they wish to engage in discussions, they are invited to do so in the lobby or outside the chamber while the debate continues in the chamber.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Vancouver Granville, and I would like to wish him a happy belated birthday. He is looking pretty good for just one year shy of 50, and I think the whole House would agree with that.

I really appreciated the fact that the parliamentary secretary acknowledged that the government is focused and working on a budget for November 4. Also, he said that we are going to have to make some difficult choices to make sure we can protect Canada's fiscal position, differentiating from the Conservative view that the country is broken. Conservatives are not highlighting the fact that Canada has the best debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7 and the lowest deficit.

My question to the hon. member is this: Does he find it a bit facetious that he has to listen to the Conservative benches talk about deficits when the Conservatives actually proposed $106 billion in new spending in their platform just a few months ago? Does he find that just a little strange?

[Taleeb Noormohamed, Liberal, Vancouver Granville, BC]

Mr. Speaker, do I find it strange? No, not when there is a leader of a party who has never had to live on anything but the taxpayer dollar. I think it is difficult for the Conservatives to understand how an economy works, let alone how balancing books works, so it is of no surprise to me the degree to which they would have made expenditures without considering how they were going to pay for them. It is entirely in line with the Conservative opposition, which has never thought about the fiscal prudence and fiscal direction of the country, but only about populace slogans and trying to win votes.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate this opportunity to take part in today's debate and to provide a few facts that are grounded in reality.

This debate is taking place at a time of unprecedented upheaval and readjustment in the global trading system, and it is irresponsible for an opposition political party to try to ignore this and bury its head in the sand.

We know that the world is changing. Accordingly, Canadians expect their government to react appropriately. The debate we are having today goes beyond the walls of this Parliament. It is happening all over Quebec and Canada, including in my riding, Trois-Rivières, in kitchens, living rooms, at Tim Hortons, in meeting rooms and at workplaces from coast to coast. Canadians and Quebeckers know exactly what is at stake here. Our government knows it too.

While the party opposite is focused on petty politics and simplistic slogans, our government is listening to Canadians. What is more, we are taking decisive action on what we have heard. In the face of this uncertainty, Canadians have called for serious plans to address this new economic landscape and its consequences, not a $106-billion budget. They have asked for change that puts more money in their pockets, change that builds the strongest economy in the G7 and change that builds one Canadian economy instead of 13. Our new government is responding to this call for change, and that is what Canadians are expecting of us.

From a middle-class tax cut, which is saving money for 22 million Canadians, to the elimination of the GST for first-time homebuyers on new homes up to $1 million, our government is putting more money in the pockets of Canadians. We removed the consumer carbon price as of April 1, helping to reduce fuel costs, including lower prices at the pump. Our middle-class tax cut alone will save two-income families up to $840 in 2026, and going forward, it is expected to deliver over $27 billion in tax savings to Canadians over the next five years.

What is more, the bulk of this tax relief will go to those who need it most, which is to say those with incomes in the two lowest tax brackets, with nearly half going to those in the lowest tax bracket, those earning $57,000 or less, the same Canadians who stand to benefit from all the programs the party opposite voted against over the years, whether it is the dental care plan or day care. By eliminating the GST for first-time homebuyers on new homes at or under $1 million, and reducing it for first-time homebuyers between $1 million and $1.5 million, we are saving first-time homebuyers up to $50,000. Altogether, this means $3.9 billion in tax savings for Canadians over five years, allowing more young Canadians to enter the housing market and spurring the construction of new homes across the country.

At the same time, we are seizing a generational opportunity to transform the Canadian economy through ambitious investments and a rigorous spending review, so we can spend less and invest more. We know that the global economy has changed, and Canada must change with it. We need to strengthen our economic power to provide Canadians with greater certainty, security and prosperity.

We need a new fiscal approach to get there. The cornerstone of our new approach is a capital formation budgeting framework that will make capital investment a national priority. This can be done by distinguishing between spending that stimulates capital investment in the public and private sectors and day-to-day spending, and by allowing the government to prioritize spending that stimulates capital investment in the public and private sectors. It is actually quite simple, but we are only deciding to do it now.

This will result in more transparent decision-making and more taxpayer dollars allocated to investments that will grow our economy's potential. This new approach will put Canada in a better position to build the homes, infrastructure and industries our economy needs.

Our work on this front is already well under way. We recently, for example, launched Build Canada Homes, a new federal entity that will transform public-private collaboration and leverage modern methods of construction to catalyze the creation of an entirely new industry.

This represents a critical new tool to better harness the use of public land, while offering flexible financial incentives to attract private capital, facilitate the undertaking of large portfolio projects, and support modern innovative manufacturers as they build the homes Canadians need. However, it is not only the Canadian housing industry we are transforming. We are also streamlining the federal approval process to get major projects built faster. Working in close partnership with provinces, territories, indigenous peoples and private investors, we launched the Major Projects Office, which is going to work to fast-track nation-building projects by streamlining regulatory assessment and approval and to help structure financing.

Our government is moving with urgency and determination to advance this process, so Canada can build the infrastructure that will transform our economy to become the strongest in the G7. We are doing so because, for too long, the construction of major projects has been stalled by onerous and inefficient approval processes, which have stood in the way of investment. By removing these barriers and bringing new investments online, we will, in turn, create well-paying jobs for thousands of Canadians, supporting families and communities across the country.

What is more, we are undertaking these transformative changes to budgeting and investment on a solid fiscal footing, because the reality is Canada's deficit and net debt-to-GDP ratios are among the lowest among the advanced economies in the world. Let me just repeat that, because this is what I am talking about with facts versus slogans. Canada's deficit and net debt-to-GDP ratios are among the lowest among the advanced economies of the world. This is in sharp contrast with where we were in the nineties and the eighties. It is safe to say we all, maybe not all of us, but many of us, remember those dark days. We remember when stubborn deficits were leading to a rapid rise in Canada's net debt burden, eroding our fiscal advantage, increasing the cost of debt financing, and weighing in on our ability to invest in our people and our future. We can all take heart that those days are over.

ln 2024, Canada's net debt-to-GDP ratio stood at just 11.9%, compared to the G7 average, excluding Canada, of 100.4%. ln fact, Canada's net debt burden remains lower today than that of any G7 country prior to the pandemic. Canada is also expected to have had the smallest deficit in the G7 as a share of the economy this year. Canada is also one of only two G7 economies, along with Germany, to have an AAA credit rating. At least two of the three major global credit rating agencies are rating us AAA, and it is one that investors are expecting us to maintain. The result of this is Canada's borrowing cost is as low as possible. Achieving these positive results was not easy, but we were able to do that because the world believes in Canada. I really hope the opposition party can start showing they also believe in Canada.

Our actions as a government will be guided by a new fiscal discipline. We will spend less and invest more. We are initiating a comprehensive expenditure review to ensure our programs and activities are efficient and aligned with our core mandate. We are also introducing a new budget cycle to ensure we are more closely aligned with construction season, providing increased certainty and predictability for businesses and investors, supporting more effective financial planning for federal departments and agencies.

Within this new fiscal framework, budget 2025 will set out our ambitious plan to build Canada strong, with a new industrial strategy that will transform our economy from one of reliance on specific trade partners to one that is more resilient to global shocks, built on the solid foundation of strong Canadian industries and bolstered by diverse international trade partners. We hope the opposition will stand with us.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I have appreciated the opportunity to work with the member on the human resources committee, where we are studying the very serious issue of youth unemployment. As the member knows, the situation is quite bad with respect not just to youth unemployment but to unemployment in general. New job numbers are coming out tomorrow. Already we know that youth unemployment is at 14.5%. There was a 12% increase, in the last month alone, of working-age women applying for EI.

The government has made a lot of promises of things it is going to do, yet the indicators are bad: the second-highest unemployment and the fastest-shrinking economy in the G7. The best the member can offer are some indicators that are lower than the basement, such as saying that we still have not had a reduction in our credit rating.

When we will know if the Liberals' policies are working? What is the time horizon on which they are planning to demonstrate success? I would like to know, concretely, when we will be able know if they are succeeding?

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am really happy to work with my colleague in the committee. Absolutely, youth unemployment is a really important issue, and I am glad we are able to work together on that.

I would like to bring back the issue of promises of what we are going to do. They are not promises; they are actions. We have launched the major projects office. We passed the one economy bill, and I thank the Conservatives for their support on that. We have launched Build Canada Homes, increased salaries for our armed forces and launched the defence procurement agency.

Day in and day out, we are delivering on our campaign commitments. We are six months into our mandate. We are delivering on our commitments. They are not promises.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps my colleague from Trois‑Rivières can respond to that.

In the last Parliament, the finance minister at the time, Ms. Freeland, did not want to table a budget with a projected deficit of nearly $42 billion. She thought it was outrageous to propose—

[The Deputy Speaker, Tom Kmiec]

I have to interrupt the hon. member. Members may not refer to other members by their first or last name in the House.

The hon. member for Drummond can start over.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, my apologies, I know that. I suppose I must have forgotten that this government is the same as the last. I apologize for my blunder. I withdraw the remark.

This former finance minister chose to resign rather than propose a budget with an outrageous $42-billion deficit. We are about to see a budget tabled with a deficit of nearly $100 billion.

How is it that the $42 billion was so outrageous that it forced the then minister to step down, and now, $100 billion is okay? The government is bragging and saying that everything is fine and dandy.

I would like the member for Trois‑Rivières to comment on that.

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I believe that Canadians made a clear choice this spring on which party they trust the most to manage the real issues we are confronted with.

We were very clear during the campaign about our commitments. There is nothing in what we have proposed that comes as a surprise. We said that we would invest in infrastructure and that is what we are doing. We said that we would invest to build more housing and speed up the construction of housing to resolve the crisis and that is what we are doing. We said that we would invest in our armed forces and in our defence industry and that is what we are doing.

Now, our hope is that our colleagues will support us.

[Guillaume Deschênes-Thériault, Liberal, Madawaska—Restigouche, NB]

Mr. Speaker, my colleague spoke about investments that our government is making. These are investments that boost our economy.

Moreover, we have an ambitious plan in place in terms of housing construction. I am already seeing real impacts in my riding that are the result of federal investments in cities like Edmundston, Campbellton and Saint‑Quentin.

Could my colleague tell us more about our ambitious housing plan, which will meet the needs of Canadians and boost our economy?

[Caroline Desrochers, Liberal, Trois-Rivières, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his excellent question.

Build Canada Homes was really set up to address the current housing crisis. Canadians and Quebeckers need more housing, more affordable housing, housing that meets their needs and fits their budget.

We have committed to building up to 500,000 homes a year. We are making a $13-billion capital investment in Build Canada Homes.

We are really addressing affordability by supporting the construction of all kinds of housing across the entire affordability spectrum, including social housing, co-operative housing and transitional housing.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with my colleague, the hon. member for Huron—Bruce.

I am pleased to rise today on our opposition day motion that “the House call on the Liberal government to stop plagiarizing...Trudeau's failed policies and recognize that deficits drive investment and jobs down and the cost of living up.” I will start with a quote from Mr. Milton Friedman, who said, “Keep your eye on one thing and one thing only: how much government is spending, because that’s the true tax…If you’re not paying for it in the form of explicit taxes, you’re paying for it indirectly in the form of inflation or in the form of borrowing.”

That is dead-on for what is happening right now, just as it was during the past 10 years with the same Liberal government. It is not a different Liberal government. It is not a new government; it is the same Liberal government, the same tax-and-spend Liberal government. In 2015, the former prime minister was well known for responding to a question about his cabinet make-up, saying it was “because it's 2015”. However, that is what the government seems to be saying right now about its continual spending and out-of-control deficits, that it is because it is 2025.

I say that because it is the same term and the same Liberal government. There is no new plan. It is the same tired cabinet with the same old finance minister, who will not answer what the deficit will be. Although the minister was asked repeatedly at committee what the deficit would be, we did not get a response, which Canadians deserve to hear. Instead, he told Canadians they “should rejoice” at our fiscal situation, yes, rejoice at rising unemployment, rejoice at the highest youth unemployment in decades, rejoice at the doubling of the deficits.

The Minister of Finance is telling Canadians they should be happy with what is going on. They should rejoice at our fiscal situation, rejoice that the interest on the Liberal debt is going to be $82 billion a year by 2030. Put in perspective, that is about $3,000 out of their pockets for every taxpayer right off the bat, just for interest on the Liberal debt. They should rejoice at the fact that the last two years for GDP per capita, per person economic growth in Canada, shrunk by almost 3%.

“Canadians should rejoice” about being poorer, according to the Minister of Finance, and they should rejoice over the fact that the last five years, which coincide with the five years that the current Prime Minister was advising the Liberal government on economic policy, has been the worst five-year per capita GDP growth since the Great Depression. Think about that. It was worse than the five years covering the 2008-09 economic crash. Yes, we should rejoice, the same as the old finance minister who got demoted and is now off being a special envoy somewhere.

We should be happy. We have never had it so good. Every 30-year-old who is living in their mom's basement because they cannot afford to move out should make sure to rejoice and thank the Liberal government, as it says we should do. There are two million Canadians lining up every single month at food banks. One out of every 20 Canadians in the entire country is lining up at a food bank. They should take time, while they are lining, up to rejoice, as the finance minister said.

Mortgage delinquencies have almost tripled in parts of the country in the last two years. As people are packing up their home because they cannot afford it anymore, moving their things into a moving van to maybe move into their parents' basement or out on the street, I hope they will take the time to do as the finance minister suggested and enjoy the good times, rejoice and be thankful for the great economic times the Liberals are delivering.

There are a lot of things I can agree with the government on, and I know I have voted on some items, but there is a lot I disagree with. That is fine; we can disagree. I just want the government to be truthful to Canadians. Government members should not have sat here in the House for years, defending the carbon tax and telling Conservatives that we are climate deniers or that we only want to see the world burn if we want to take our kids on a summer vacation.

They should not not sit here and tell Canadians that their carbon tax is going to prevent forest fires or flooding. They should be honest with Canadians. We saw what the government did for years: It went after everyone who dared go after its dogma of the carbon tax. What happened the second it became unpopular? Liberals patted themselves on the back for cancelling the carbon tax.

A year ago, if someone was against the carbon tax, the old health minister, Mark Holland, would say that Canadians were going to burn the world down if they took their kids on a summer drive. The Liberals now say to thank them for getting rid of the carbon tax. The Liberals are now pretending they are pro-oil, pro-Alberta or pro-energy. They sit here and say that there are no proponents for new pipelines, but at the same time, they refuse to repeal Bill C-69, the “no new pipelines” bill. They refuse to repeal Bill C-48, which bans tankers from taking Alberta oil up the B.C. coast but of course still allows U.S. tankers there.

They refuse to repeal the emissions and production cap that the Conference Board of Canada says will cost over 100,000 jobs in Canada. The Liberals should be honest; they should not sit here and say, “We love oil and gas. If only we had a proponent to build a pipeline.”

Liberals are all for oil as long as it stays politely in the ground, it seems. Their position regarding oil and gas is very much like saying that I will push a person down the stairs but also make sure someone pats me on the back for calling 911 to help that person afterward. That is what they seem to be doing with oil and gas: saying that we will be an energy superpower and that we will develop oil and gas but keep Bill C-69, Bill C-48 and the production cap, and that it will not be the Liberals' fault that no one steps up from the private sector.

The capital gains tax is another example. I just want the government to be honest. We heard the old finance minister say, basically, that Canadians are going to be living behind gated communities to keep out lower-income people who want to burn down their homes unless we have the capital gains tax. She stated, “[We] could finance [it] by taking on more debt. But that would place an unfair burden on our younger generations”, yet the Liberals are going to add $60 billion of debt this year alone. She then urged Canadians to mark politicians who voted against the capital gains tax increase.

The current finance minister said that the “capital gains tax change [will] help Canadians” and that the Liberals “will fight for Canadians...will fight for the middle class.” He went on to ask whether members could believe that the Conservatives voted against the capital gains tax and tax fairness. The Liberals were going to increase investment in Canada, because their new capital gains tax would ask the wealthiest to pay a bit more to fund investments.

Move ahead a couple of months, and the finance minister, the same one who says we should rejoice at rising unemployment, that auto workers, I guess, should rejoice that we are going to have a permanent export tax on cars, permanent tariffs that are going to cause the industry to collapse, says that by tackling the capital gains tax, we are supporting builders, investment and entrepreneurs.

Is there any reason we doubt the Liberals when they say they are going to build the fastest-growing economy in the G7, while at the same time they bring in massive deficits that are going to drive out private sector investments? Their policies are causing massive, record increases to the use of food banks. Is there any reason no one trusts the Liberals? Everything was all-in on the carbon tax and the capital gains tax. All the borrowing they were going to do was going to drive investment into Canada, yet under the Liberals, half a trillion dollars in net investment has fled the country, with the Prime Minister's promising that another trillion dollars will flee Canada into the U.S. under their watch.

It is clear that we need a change. It is clear that the government has to end its Trudeau-era policies and get real with Canadians. It has to be honest with Canadians, be upfront and change its ways before it is too late.

[Kody Blois, Liberal, Parliamentary Secretary to the Prime Minister]

Mr. Speaker, the member talked about some of the challenges that exist in the country. The government by no means suggests that it is perfect out there. The government is working within the realities, trying to meet Canadians where they are at and ensure that we have programs. That is why we have reduced taxes for 22 million Canadians. We have removed the GST for first-time homebuyers, for the 30-year-old who is trying to save up to be able to buy a home. We have actually introduced measures that the member is hopefully telling his own constituents about.

However, if someone is one of the seven million Canadian seniors who received old age security, the member voted against that. If someone is one of the 5.1 million Canadian children who are in receipt of the Canadian child benefit, the member voted against it. If someone is one of the more than one million Canadians who are now receiving dental support, the member voted against it.

What I find facetious about the entire debate is that the member ran on a platform of actually promising $106 billion of new spending if a Conservative government was actually in the seats. How is he able to stand up and say these things with a straight face?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would like to remind the member opposite that if the Liberals had not cratered our economy, they would not have to be providing so much in welfare-type services to Canadians.

The reality is that there can be good spending if it is for actual investments that produce productivity, goes toward reducing regulations or perhaps goes toward repealing Bill C-69, Bill C-48 and the emissions cap, which would be the greatest thing to unleash prosperity across the country. The government has done nothing but add on red tape, regulations and everything possible to destroy our economy, and the results show massive increases in unemployment, massive increases in youth unemployment and massive increases in debt.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Mr. Speaker, I am a little concerned because I am watching the Liberals, and I see them cutting measures that could generate billions of dollars in revenue, such as the digital services tax, which has been eliminated, as well as countertariffs, which we have not seen at all.

The same can be said of the Conservatives. When I asked the Leader of the Opposition earlier what he would do to put money back into the pockets of Quebeckers and Canadians, he again talked about reducing the size of government and making cuts.

I would like to ask my colleague what concrete measures will be taken to reinvest in the economy, to stimulate the economy and to encourage entrepreneurs to invest and grow. I do not hear any mention of this in the Conservatives' speeches today.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the member has not been listening.

We have been very clear. We can grow the economy by cutting red tape, cutting job-killing regulations that reduce investment, cutting taxes so we are competitive with international competitors, and having a business environment where people will invest and create jobs in this country. We could get rid of Bill C-48, the job-killing, pipeline-killing Bill C-69, and the cap on oil and gas production, which, by the way, produces the most wealth and is the main driver of equalization rates for the member's province.

[Harb Gill, Conservative, Windsor West, ON]

Mr. Speaker, the world over shares or exports energy, even developing nations. How is it that we are not doing that?

Can the member walk us through how repealing Liberal anti-energy laws would help restore investment and job growth in regions like Windsor, Ontario and Alberta?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Mr. Speaker, our energy industry is waiting to be unleashed. The International Energy Agency says that we are not going to see oil peak until 2050, unlike the former Liberal minister of resources, who said it was going to peak last year. We are going to see decades more growth and demand for oil.

Canada can be the country that delivers that oil in an environmental and ethical way, instead of giving money to dictators, as we are doing right now through the Liberal oil and gas cap. Canada can produce that oil for the free world. Canada can create that wealth here in the country, which can drive investment, and create wealth and jobs for Canadians.

[Ben Lobb, Conservative, Huron—Bruce, ON]

Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise here today.

What we are talking about today with this motion is ending the Justin Trudeau-style economic philosophy and the Justin Trudeau-style budgeting and getting back to the basics here. We are talking about investments today and different things.

Before I get started, I should congratulate the Toronto Blue Jays on a great victory and a great series. It was excellent. We can all agree on that in the House. It is a bit of unity before we get the punching in. What did the Blue Jays do? We can give them credit for private investment. They spent $750 million over the past few years updating the Rogers Centre, and they did not ask for any government money that I know of. They had a business case, they went about it and they did it. I think they did it on time and on budget. Now, they are into the next round of playoffs, and they are getting their return on investment.

That is really what we are talking about here today. We have to unleash the private business investment in this country. We have to become more attractive to foreign companies and our own domestic companies so they make a decision to invest in Canada. There is far too much red tape and obstruction to do that.

There was a Liberal MP who spoke about 20 minutes ago, and what she said was interesting. She said that the Liberals created a new program to deal with all the red tape and delay in the programs. Well, guess who created all that red tape and delay in the programs? The Liberal government has been around so long that it is trying to fix the devastation it created, but that is never going to happen, because the Liberals do not know how to fix it.

If we go back 10 years, Stephen Harper and Joe Oliver delivered a budget in the legacy of Jim Flaherty. It was a balanced budget. The government expenditures that year were $289 billion for a balanced budget. The entire net debt for the country was $610 billion, which is a lot. The debt-to-GDP ratio at that time was just over 31% and declining. We really were, after a number of years, becoming a destination for the world to do business.

Justin Trudeau came along and said, “Look, I'm just going to spend a bit more over the next three years. I'm going to have a balanced budget in 2020 and a little deficit in the medium term, or $10 billion a year, so some investment can kick-start the economy.” Now, that should have been deadpanned right from the beginning because, with a $2-trillion economy, $10 billion is really not going to get the job done. Right from the beginning, we knew it. Canadians should have known that, when a person comes in with that kind of philosophy, it is going to fail.

Fast-forward to today and the net debt is $1.2 trillion to $1.3 trillion, and the gross debt is way more. The debt-to-GDP ratio for just Canada, not for all the provinces combined, is 45%, I believe. The deficit this year, incredibly, will be higher than a Justin Trudeau deficit at approximately $62.5 billion.

All the while, the Liberals have been telling Canadians that we just need to invest a little more to the point where, now, in 2024-25, I believe total government expenditure is at $450 billion. In 10 years, we have increased the size of government by well over 50%, we have more than doubled Canada's debt permanently and we have added burden onto young Canadians that will last their lifetime and generations down the line, all because Justin Trudeau said 10 years ago that we were going to make a wee investment. He used the phrase “modest short-term deficit”. He also used a phrase that came back to bite him pretty hard: “the budget will balance itself”.

The other chief architect of this commentary is now the Prime Minister. He was Trudeau's adviser all the way along. When Canadians were looking at him in the winter and through the spring, they thought, “Boy, we've really broken away from this Trudeau guy.” However, what they really did was elect Trudeau on steroids. Now, months later, people cannot believe what they got, and I know because I am out in my community all the time. It is not just in finance and business. It is in everything. It is universal disappointment.

We need to get back to the basics. We need to create an economic climate where we can invite people to do business in our country. We need transparency. We need to know exactly what the rules are. Think about how many times the rules have changed since the Liberals have been in government over the past 10 years. For big projects and little projects, everything is changing all the time.

He said one thing that might be the worst lie he could have told a Canadian, which was that the Liberals took on debt so Canadians would not have to. A lot of Canadians took that literally, five years ago. They are really being hit now, to the point where they are giving keys back to the bank and there are record lineups at food banks. It goes on and on.

Ten years ago, when Stephen Harper, Jim Flaherty and Joe Oliver were putting together budgets, a young family had a future. They could afford to buy a home. They could afford to save for their kids' education. They could put food on the table and not have to rely on government food programs to feed their children at lunchtime. People could afford to buy groceries and put it in their kids' lunch boxes. Canadians could afford to raise their kids, play sports and go on a vacation. They could do all these things. They may have had to work a bit of overtime and save from time to time, but it could be done.

Now that dream is way out in the distance. I talked to somebody the other day who was talking about all the boomerang kids who have come back to live with their families. We never—