Debates of June 10th, 2025

Main Estimates and Supplementary Estimates (A), 2025-26

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, I would never claim to be an expert in British law, but I know that it is a unitary country. We recently welcomed King Charles III, who was here with us for the Speech from the Throne. I think that my colleague was very pleased to be able to listen to the Speech from the Throne.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Chair, are we to understand that once the accounting is reformed, and we are told that the model is the United Kingdom, a country that has a different model of government than ours, all the transfers to the provinces will count as operating expenses instead of capital expenses?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, my colleague will have to wait for the budget to be tabled. I know that he is looking forward to it. It is coming in the fall. When fall arrives, he will be very happy to see a budget that will build a strong and ambitious Canada.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Speaker, indeed, we look forward to having a budget. We have said that several times.

Does the minister agree that if health transfers are counted as operating expenses, the transfers to the provinces will artificially run up the deficit?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, for the people of Mirabel and Saint-Maurice-Champlain who are tuning in, I am going to keep this simple. People at home understand that when they go to the grocery store, they are spending money, and when they buy a house, they are investing money. People at home understand the difference in no uncertain terms. We will be extremely transparent about the accounting rules we apply.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Chair, do the estimates account for the government's election campaign promise to reduce the size of the public service?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, I want to take this opportunity to thank all the public servants here with us this evening. They are doing a tremendous job. What we said was that we are going to be responsible. The Prime Minister has already spoken on this issue. We deeply appreciate the work of the public service, but at the same time, we want to make a service—

[The Deputy Chair, Liberal, Alexandra Mendes]

The hon. member for Mirabel.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Chair, can the minister tell us by how much consultants' fees are increasing, in the estimates?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, we have tried to reduce the use of consultants and focus on the ample expertise and experience available to us within the Canadian public service.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Chair, can the minister tell us by how much the government is going to reduce spending on civil servants compared to what was expected? By how much is it going to increase spending on consultants?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, let us look at the numbers. I know he is eager to get to that. Ninety-nine percent of the content in the Department of Finance estimates is statutory spending. Only 1% is operating expenditures for the Department of Finance. That accounts for over $200 million. That is a direct transfer to Newfoundland and Labrador for the Hibernia project.

I am sure my colleague is happy about getting into the numbers.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Chair, I will ask the question again. I would just like to know how much of an increase there is with respect to the planned expenditures on consultants.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, the goal is to reduce them, not increase them. We will therefore continue to work together, particularly with our colleagues in the public service, to be as efficient as possible and to provide Canadian citizens with the best possible services.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Chair, the Income Tax Act has been under the minister's purview since the early 1960s. The Income Tax Act provides that Canadian advertising expenses incurred in foreign media are not deductible for income tax purposes. However, the act is extremely outdated. Today, we have companies that are deducting costs incurred for advertising with foreign web giants, specifically the big American groups that we are trying to avoid and that are often at the heart of the disinformation campaigns we are seeing today in our democracies.

Does the minister intend to reform the Income Tax Act to ensure that these tax deductions are no longer accepted?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, I thank the member for Mirabel. I really appreciate his question, because this is one of the issues I have discussed with various industry representatives. Like me and my colleagues on the other side, we all want to promote national, local and regional media.

Yes, this issue is very important to me. I sincerely thank him for this question, because it is an issue that concerns me personally, specifically how we can support local media here in Canada and ensure their prosperity. Yes, we are looking at that.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to point out that since 2018, approximately 40 daily newspapers, 400 community newspapers, 42 radio stations and 11 television stations have disappeared in Canada. Their revenues have partly gone to web giants like GAFAM. The government has done nothing and has ignored the industry's demands.

I would like to know how much this tax expenditure costs the government every year. I am talking about the tax credits Canadians get to then send their money to Americans who contribute to disinformation.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, on the contrary, I am very much in tune with the various stakeholders in the sector. I would like to point out that my colleague may be open to the idea of having a parliamentary committee look into this issue and advise us. I am very interested in his question. I will continue to talk to the industry. We will work hand in hand.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like the minister to tell me whether he needs a parliamentary committee to provide me with the value of the tax expenditure associated with these tax credits. Is he able to obtain that figure for us?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, I was reaching out to the Bloc Québécois. What more can they ask of someone than to reach out to them to move forward on taxation in this country?

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Chair, the minister's problem is that he is reaching out instead of providing figures. I am asking him for the value of a tax credit. How much do Canadians pay annually in tax credits, in money that goes directly to American web giants like GAFAM that contribute to disinformation in our democracy?

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, as I have already said, we want to do more with regional and local media. It is a concern, as I said.

The member should be happy. I am answering his question by going to the heart of it. I am saying that I am concerned about this issue. I have talked to people in the industry. It is a cordial question. I am even reaching out to the member so that he can make suggestions to the Standing Committee on Finance to move the issue forward. It is something that is near and dear to my heart.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Chair, I would like to know how much revenue will be collected as a result of the retaliatory tariffs against the United States during the current fiscal year, the government's fiscal year.

[François-Philippe Champagne, Liberal, Saint-Maurice—Champlain, QC]

Madam Chair, the member for Mirabel knows things. What we want is to avoid having tariffs. To date, we have already collected $1.7 billion, but the end goal is to have no tariffs. That way, there will be no retaliatory measures against the tariffs imposed by the United States. We will always be there to defend industry.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Madam Chair, what the minister is saying would be true if, during the election campaign, the government had not included $20 billion from retaliatory tariffs against the United States in its financial platform to fund operating expenses.

The “Fiscal Monitor” shows us that, as of March, $600 million in retaliatory measures against U.S. tariffs had been collected. If we multiply that by 12, it is just under $8 billion. Since then, the government has suspended certain measures. How is it going to get to $20 billion?