Debates of June 11th, 2025

Main Estimates and Supplementary Estimates (A), 2025-26

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, we will always stand with forestry workers and defend the forestry sector. The Americans' current position hurts both Canadian and American businesses and increases the cost of wood products and homes in the United States. We will continue to work to resolve this issue with the Americans.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have been here since 2019. We have been hearing for many years about a grand program to plant two billion trees. I have yet to see those two billion trees. It seems to me that there were discussions between Quebec City and Ottawa about using the two billion tree program to carry out silviculture in Quebec.

Is this a solution that the minister would be willing to consider?

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, we have been planting trees for quite some time. We are continuing to plant trees. We will plant more trees.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, there was a whole imbroglio involving the woodland caribou issue. The Liberal government threatened to shut down entire villages back home in Saguenay—Lac-Saint-Jean.

Does the minister agree with me that the woodland caribou issue falls specifically under provincial jurisdiction and not Ottawa's?

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, I will have to get an answer for the member. I am not familiar with that issue.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, the “build Canada homes” program has been mentioned a number of times.

What we are asking the government to do is include the carbon footprint in the tendering process to prioritize wood as a material, since it has a lower carbon footprint. Is this a solution that the minister is prepared to consider as part of the “build Canada homes” program?

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, my understanding is that the “build Canada homes” program is intended to use Canadian wood and Canadian-engineered wood products.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, is the government prepared to ensure that wood will be the preferred material?

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, I believe that the Prime Minister has been quite clear that in the “build Canada homes” program, we will build with Canadian lumber and Canadian-engineered wood products.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, the Liberal government paid $34 billion to expand an existing pipeline because there were no proponents. Now they are telling us that they want to build new oil and gas infrastructure.

Does the minister know if there are any developers for this new oil and gas infrastructure?

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, in Saskatoon, the Prime Minister and the premiers got together and proposed five criteria for encouraging new projects of national interest. When the bill is passed, those five criteria will be used to get proponents to make proposals for projects of major interest.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, we want to send a strong signal to the oil and gas sector. I find it hard to understand why no proponent wanted to get involved in the Trans Mountain expansion. It took a $34-billion investment. I do not see why, today, someone would be prepared to invest in “pipeline” infrastructure. Perhaps the minister can explain that to me.

We know that demand for oil will drop in the coming years. It is unavoidable. Worse still, the Parliamentary Budget Officer has said that, for a project like Trans Mountain to turn a profit, it will have to be used at its full potential for 40 years.

How can an oil infrastructure project be profitable today? I would like the minister to explain that to us.

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, the premise of the one Canadian economy act is that, together with the premiers, indigenous peoples and proponents, we would have a two-year window for the approval process. That two-year window would give the private sector the certainty it needs to put money to work to build projects of national interest.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, I think the government clearly announced its intent to invest in carbon capture and storage.

In the past, as part of the Standing Committee on Natural Resources, I had many discussions with oil and gas executives. They told us that, without public investment, those projects were not profitable.

I have a very simple question for the minister. Does he believe that low-carbon oil is profitable from a business perspective? He is familiar with projects in the financial and business sector. Does he believe that low-carbon oil is profitable?

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, in the global fight against climate change, we need to use all the tools we can get. Carbon capture technologies have an important role to play in reducing emissions, including in heavy industries like cement and steel. Carbon capture has been used around the world for a long time and works to reduce emissions.

Our plan is clear: spur innovation in the energy sector, get projects built in a sustainable way and make Canada an energy superpower while fighting climate change.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, Rich Kruger, the CEO of Suncor, came before the committee to say that, in his opinion, his company was putting too much emphasis on the energy transition. I do not think that was a clear indication by people in the oil and gas industry that they want to champion carbon capture and storage strategies.

To the minister's knowledge, are any oil and gas companies interested in those technologies in the absence of public funding?

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, I think the member is referring to the Pathways Alliance. This project will deliver tremendous emissions reductions in Canada's conventional oil sector.

Canada's new government supports this carbon capture project as a way to spur innovation in the energy sector, lower emissions and strengthen our economy. We will fight climate change while building the strongest economy in the G7. It is with ambitious projects like this one that we will make Canada an energy superpower while lowering emissions.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, is the government going to invest in the Pathways Alliance?

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, in Saskatoon, the Prime Minister and the premiers came up with five criteria for developing projects of national interest. As those projects come forward, we will look at that opportunity and we will invest where it makes sense. I would like to draw the example of the natural gas industry, where a relatively small amount of—

[The Assistant Deputy Chair, Conservative, John Nater]

The hon. member.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, I have a hard time grasping the logic of ending carbon pricing while asking sectors like the natural gas industry to reduce their carbon footprint.

If a given industry's carbon footprint is reduced, then we can be sure it has to do with carbon pricing. Is there not a disconnect there?

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, Canada's new government will build projects of national interest. If my colleague would like to rapidly advance major projects in Quebec or other places, I encourage him to support the one Canadian economy bill.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, I am prepared to support the economies of all the provinces.

Our goal is not to make anyone poorer, but we need to keep in mind that the government bought a pipeline for $34 billion. If we look at previous budget years, there are $82 billion in projected tax breaks for 2024-35. Does the minister not think that is a bit much for a single industry?

[Tim Hodgson, Liberal, Markham—Thornhill, ON]

Mr. Chair, we are not here to look backward; we are here to look forward. We have agreed to a plan with the premiers about how to get new projects built, new projects of national interest. There are five criteria for doing it. I am happy to lay them out for the hon. member. We will build the strongest economy in the G7.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, I agree with the minister that we need to look forward.

For me, though, as I look forward, what I see is climate change. Looking forward, I see the government being complacent toward the industry, which raked in record profits in 2022. In 2022, big oil made record profits of $200 billion. However, from 2024 to 2035, Canada plans to give them $82 billion in tax benefits. Can the minister tell me if there is another natural resource sector in Canada that is benefiting from such largesse?