Debates of June 12th, 2025

Main Estimates and Supplementary Estimates (A), 2025-26

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, we are here to talk about our main estimates, which include payments and services to Canadians—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Mr. Chair, the main estimates include the money spent on personnel in the federal government. Are taxpayers getting 40% more out of the federal public service than they were in 2015?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, we are here to talk about the main estimates. We have $486 million—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Apparently, the minister is not here to talk about anything, Mr. Chair, but I will try again.

In 2023-24, the Public Service Commission annual report said there was a 3% increase in the federal public service. The Canadian population grew by 1.8% in 2024. Does the minister think it is normal and justifiable that the federal public service is outpacing population growth?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, can I ask my colleague to repeat the question, please?

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Mr. Chair, I will not allow the minister to be a demagogue when we have such limited time. He heard the question. If he would like to answer it on my next one, he is fully able to.

What benchmarks does the federal government use to ensure that the public service is delivering value to taxpayers?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, this new government is focused on spending less so that Canadians can save more. That is why we have committed to reducing the cost of government operations over the next three years. We will achieve—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Mr. Chair, the minister either did not listen to the question or did not care about it. These are important questions that deserve answers. It is shameful that the minister responsible for the federal public service has no interest in talking about whether that service is operating effectively.

The federal public service has grown by 40% in the last 10 years. Are Canadians getting their money's worth?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, my hon. colleague talks about an increase in the public service, but does not talk about an increase in the population. The public service is there to serve Canadians, to deliver priorities to Canadians and—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Mr. Chair, I thank the minister for giving me something to work with here.

Does the minister think that population growth and growth in the public service should be the same?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, to ensure transparency and accountability, all proposed spending and actual expenditures are reported to both Parliament and—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Mr. Chair, the main estimates show $62.7 billion in spending on personnel. That is an increase over last year of $3.5 billion. Are Canadian taxpayers getting more from the federal public service this year?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, Canadians elected this government to deliver the priorities important to Canadians, to build Canada strong, to build one economy—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member.

[Andrew Lawton, Conservative, Elgin—St. Thomas—London South, ON]

Mr. Chair, if the minister does not know the main estimates, I will ask a question he does know.

Since becoming the Treasury Board president, how many briefings has he received?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I was appointed about a month ago, and I have received many briefings, pretty much every—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The time has elapsed.

The member for Chatham-Kent—Leamington.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Mr. Chair, Canada's debt-to-GDP ratio has risen from 2014's 80.5% to 110.8% in 2024, the largest increase in the G7. When does the minister project a balanced budget?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Chair, we are committed to balancing our operating budget in the next three years. That is what we are working on.

[Dave Epp, Conservative, Chatham-Kent—Leamington, ON]

Mr. Chair, the Prime Minister has stated he is going to report operating expenditures and capital expenditures separately. Why?