Debates of June 12th, 2025

Main Estimates and Supplementary Estimates (A), 2025-26

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The parliamentary secretary will come to order. Both sides will come to order.

The rules are being obeyed. There are no pictures to be taken in the House. I have seen no pictures being taken; there are just timers being used.

The President of the Treasury Board has the floor.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Chair, I would request that my colleague repeat the question, please.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

I am proceeding to the next question now.

The hon. member has the floor.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, does the minister think that people who work for the public service should be able to work as external contractors at the same time as they are employed by the public service?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, there are rules in place, and there are conflict of interest rules in place, and I expect everyone to abide by those rules.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, it is just a really simple question about the minister's philosophy in terms of how he thinks things should work. Does the minister think a person who is employed by the public service should be able to simultaneously work as an external contractor? It is the third time I have asked the question. Could the minister answer it? Does he think that is appropriate, yes or no?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, all public servants must follow conflict of interest rules. As a condition of employment, all public servants must adhere to the directive on conflict of interest. They must identify and address the situation of real, apparent or potential conflict of interest. As of October 2024, all employees must—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member has the floor.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, am I to infer from the answer that the minister thinks there are some instances where it is okay for a public servant to also be an external contractor?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would request that my colleague read what I said: All public servants must follow conflict of interest rules.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, I think it is pretty clear from that answer that the minister thinks there are some cases where it is acceptable to double-dip as a government employee and a contractor. If he does not think that, he can say so, but I think that is pretty troubling.

I have another question: Does the minister think that companies that do work for hostile foreign regimes should also be able to simultaneously do work for the Government of Canada?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, again, I would refer back to my comments, which my colleague should look into and read. All public servants and the companies must follow conflict of interest rules. There are robust rules in place in every department and they must follow those rules.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, the minister did not listen to the question I asked. He repeated his non-answer from the previous question. I invite him to come up with a new non-answer to the new question.

The new question was this: Does the minister think that companies that do work for hostile foreign regimes should be able to simultaneously do work for the Government of Canada?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, what I can tell the member is that the government, as I would expect our departments to do, makes sure we are doing business with suppliers of integrity. The government updated its ineligibility and suspension policy—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member has the floor.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, with all due respect to the minister, this is embarrassing. I would be embarrassed. I am almost embarrassed for him.

Is the government planning a major overhaul of the indigenous procurement program?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, the main estimates include $25.3 billion in planned spending for Indigenous Services Canada, reflecting a—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, the question, again, is this: Is the government planning a major overhaul of the indigenous procurement program?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I understand my colleague wants to get a clip and he is anxious. The main estimates, again, include twenty-five—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member.

[Garnett Genuis, Conservative, Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, AB]

Mr. Chair, very respectfully to the President of the Treasury Board, there is nothing virtuous or public service-minded about ignoring serious questions from members of the opposition and repeating lines that have absolutely nothing to do with those questions. This is not a “gotcha”; this is a basic question of government policy. Is—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

Time has elapsed for questions.

The next member is the member for Abbotsford—South Langley.

[Sukhman Gill, Conservative, Abbotsford—South Langley, BC]

Mr. Chair, the PSPC and the Treasury Board's goals are to be accurate with the management of the government-funded and -led projects.

How many Canadians are living in the converted housing spaces that were former government office buildings?