Debates of June 12th, 2025

Main Estimates and Supplementary Estimates (A), 2025-26

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member has the floor.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, at the time, Australia had already experienced problems with the system, and the unions alerted the federal government, whether it was the old one or the new one.

Why did it still buy the software?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, the Government of Canada remains committed to resolving outstanding pay issues while modernizing the public service.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, during the pilot phase, several departments reported that the system was far from satisfactory.

Why did the government continue to roll out the pay system despite the warnings and poor test results?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, all public servants deserve to be paid accurately and on time. The Government of Canada remains committed to resolving outstanding pay—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member has the floor.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, the government is trying to cut costs and get unions to agree to less compensation. It recovered overpayments and was sometimes not justified in doing so, and only then did it reimburse public servants dealing with pay errors that cost them thousands of dollars. For a person who lost their house, a total of $2,500 for four years is not very generous.

Will the government finally provide adequate compensation to its own employees and take full responsibility for the problems caused by its own negligence?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, we are committed to a continued dialogue with the bargaining agents on the issue.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, I hope there will be a conclusion, not just a discussion.

The French language commissioner published a report in November 2024 about understanding the decline of French and reversing that trend. It stated that the federal public service is primarily responsible for the anglicization of the Outaouais region, with rates of nearly 60%.

Will the secretary repeat what his organization says, namely that 25% of civil servants are francophone and that 95% of civil servants in bilingual positions meet the requirements of their position?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am committed to ensuring that the Official Languages Act is implemented and respected across all federal institutions.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, does the minister agree with no longer hiring employees on the promise of learning French since they do not meet the requirements of the job at the time of hiring?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, again, I am committed to ensuring that the Official Languages Act is implemented and respected across all federal institutions.

[Sima Acan, Liberal, Oakville West, ON]

Mr. Chair, it is a pleasure to rise to lend my voice to the debate on the 2025-2026 main estimates.

Indeed, the ability to exercise spending oversight is one of the most important responsibilities we have as members of Parliament. The principle of accountability requires that parliamentarians know and approve how public funds are spent so they can hold the government accountable for its actions.

It is a principle that the government and I, as a member of Parliament, take very seriously. That is why the government continues to make every effort necessary to ensure that parliamentarians and Canadians have timely access to accurate and understandable information about government spending.

As members know, the main estimates serve as the mechanism to seek Parliament's approval of government expenditures. The document has two parts. Part I is the government expenditure plan, which provides a summary of and highlights year-over-year changes in departmental spending and transfer payments. This helps provide perspective on the major issues influencing the government's planned spending.

Part II is the main estimates, which many members of Parliament refer to as the blue book. It directly supports the appropriation acts for the main estimates. Part II also provides a list of resources individual departments and agencies require for the upcoming fiscal year so they can deliver their programs and services to Canadians. It is forward-looking in that it identifies proposed spending that will be included in a future appropriation bill that Parliament will be asked to approve. Once approved, these funds will allow federal departments and agencies to continue delivering the critical programs and services Canadians rely on.

I would like to take a few moments to talk about what is in the main estimates for the Treasury Board of Canada Secretariat, but first, for those new to the chamber, I will provide a quick overview. The Treasury Board Secretariat, or TBS, is a central agency that supports the Treasury Board. It helps departments put government policies into action and ensures public funds are used wisely and effectively. TBS sets the direction for how departments manage people, money, technology and even their environmental footprint through its administrative leadership role. Some of its responsibilities in this area include providing guidance on financial management, advancing the government's digital transformation and making government operations greener and more climate resilient. For this work, TBS is requesting $140 million, which includes a $12.8-million increase in funding for the low-carbon fuel procurement program, $3.7 million for the renewal of the office of public service accessibility and a $3.2-million increase in funding to strengthen cybersecurity.

Next, TBS plays a big role as the employer for the core public administration for which these estimates propose $4.1 billion primarily for public service insurance plans. It handles compensation, labour relations and workplace policies, everything from negotiating collective agreements to promoting diversity and inclusion. TBS is also responsible for spending oversight, making sure government programs are efficient, effective and aligned with our priorities. It reviews departmental spending proposals and advises Treasury Board ministers on funding decisions. Some of the proposed spending in support of oversight responsibility include $3.75 billion for the operating and capital budget carry forward, $1 billion for government contingencies to address urgent and unforeseen pressures such as natural disasters, and $600 million to reimburse departments for certain paylist expenditures, including maternity and parental leave.

Finally, TBS oversees regulatory policy. It works to modernize regulations, reduce unnecessary red tape and ensure that the rules protect Canadians' health, safety and the environment, while also supporting innovation and co-operation with other jurisdictions. For this work, the department is requesting $10.5 million. Altogether, TBS is seeking $9.8 billion in these main estimates. With this funding, the secretariat can continue to support a modern, responsive and accountable government, one that delivers real results for Canadians and makes smart use of every tax dollar.

Let me now turn to the overall 2025-26 main estimates. These main estimates present information on $222.9 billion in voted expenditures, meaning spending to be approved by Parliament, and $264 billion in statutory spending already authorized through existing legislation. This adds up to a total of $489.9 billion in planned budgetary spending for 130 organizations.

Transfer payments to other levels of government, other organizations and individuals account for $294.8 billion in these estimates. For their part, operating and capital expenditures total $143.1 billion. The remaining $49.1 billion in the estimates would be used to pay down interest and administrative costs on the public debt.

Before I conclude, I would be remiss if I did not also address the Governor General's special warrants that were issued to fund government operations during this year's general election, the fundamental element of our democracy. The total amount of the two special warrants issued in this period is $73.4 billion. The first was for $40.3 billion and provided supply for the period from April 1 to May 15. The second total is $33.1 billion, which provides additional supply for the period from May 16 to June 29. The spending authorized through these special warrants is included in the main estimates total, and the amounts shown for each organization take this spending into account.

To support transparency, details on the special warrant issued during the period of time that Parliament was dissolved for the purpose of the 2025 general election are available through the Canada Gazette and the orders in council online database. A summary report on special warrants is also tabled in Parliament and posted on Canada.ca within 15 days of the return of Parliament.

Ensuring information is readily accessible allows Canadians and parliamentarians to explore the main estimates and other government financial reports to see how public money is spent. These main estimates demonstrate how the government plans to invest public resources to meet the serious challenges and opportunities that are before us and address the priorities that matter most to Canadians.

The government is committed to ensuring that Canadians can continue to rely on the critical services they need. When appropriation act No. 1, 2025-2026 is introduced, I urge all members to pass the bill without delay.

Through you, Mr. Chair, I first want to congratulate my colleague on his re-election and his appointment as the President of the Treasury Board. I would like to thank him for appearing before the committee of the whole this evening to discuss the main estimates for 2025 and 2026. I know Canadians do not often see the behind-the-scenes coordination required to ensure that departments are properly resourced to deliver the programs and services they rely on every day, and I think it is important to recognize the central role the Treasury Board plays in that process.

As we all know, the main estimates provide Parliament with a detailed snapshot of how government plans to allocate public funds in the coming fiscal year, reflecting key policy priorities and commitments. With that in mind, recognizing that we are still early in the fiscal year, I would like to ask the President of the Treasury Board if he could please walk us through some of the high-level themes or priorities that Canadians should take away from the 2025-2026 main estimates.

In particular, are there any shifts in spending or areas of focus that he would highlight as especially significant with respect to supporting government commitments, responding to economic pressures or advancing service delivery improvements for Canadians?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Chair, I congratulate the member on being elected and having the privilege of being in this House.

There are some key funding areas in the main estimates 2025-26, with a total of $486.9 billion in budgetary spending, comprising $222.9 billion in voted authorities and $264 billion in statutory expenditures. In comparison to the total authorities for 2024-25, plus supplementary (A)s and supplementary (B)s, this represents an increase of $0.2 billion. The amount is made up of transfer payments at over 60% or $294.8 billion, operating and capital expenditures at 29.4%, and public debt charges at 10.1%.

There are 130 organizations that have funding requirements in the main estimates, including DND, ISED, EC, ESDC and health, which represent the five largest voted departments. The main estimates include $105.7 billion in total expenditures for Employment and Social Development Canada. This is the overview. There is also $25.3 billion for Indigenous Services, and $13 billion for Crown-Indigenous Relations and Northern Affairs. There is $35.7 billion for National Defence. These are a few that are included in the main estimates for spending and investment.

[Sima Acan, Liberal, Oakville West, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to begin by recognizing the work the minister's department has done over the past few years to enhance transparency and strengthen public trust in how government operates.

We have seen steady efforts towards improving reporting tools, streamlining digital access to spending information and increasing the clarity of documents like the main estimates. At the same time, there has been a growing focus across departments on improving the quality and accessibility of services Canadians depend on, from passport renewals to benefit processing to digital tools that make navigating government easier. These are things that touch people's lives directly and help shape their confidence in public service as a whole.

With that in mind, and with the understanding that transparency and service delivery are both central to the Treasury Board's role, could you please speak to how the 2025-26 main estimates reflect your ongoing commitment to transparency in government spending and how that commitment is helping to support improvements in frontline service delivery for Canadians? Are there any particular initiatives or approaches you would highlight that illustrate progress in these areas or set the stage for further enhancements?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

I will remind members to speak through the chair and avoid using the word "you".

The President of the Treasury Board may go ahead.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, a working group is currently looking at opportunities to improve productivity so that we can improve services to Canadians. I look forward to receiving its recommendations soon.

Also, we have a spending review, which started in 2023-24, with departments cutting spending on travel and professional services by $500 million. In 2024-25, $2.3 billion was reallocated to priority areas. This year, 2025-26, that amount increases to $3.5 billion.

[Sima Acan, Liberal, Oakville West, ON]

Mr. Chair, I know that the minister's department plays a central role in ensuring that the departments across government are held to a high standard of financial management, and that the expenditures align with both policy goals and responsible stewardship of taxpayers' dollars.

With that in mind, I would ask the minister how the 2025-26 main estimates reflect the government's commitment to responsible spending. Could the minister please share some examples of how the department is working to ensure that the funds are being used—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

There is no more time.

Resuming debate, I recognize the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Mr. Chair, I will be splitting my time three ways.

What percentage of pre-qualified IT contractors have no technical abilities, like the admitted fraudsters at the two-man, basement-headquartered GC Strategies?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Chair, as I have mentioned numerous times before, this particular case is under investigation, and it would not be appropriate for me to comment on that.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Mr. Chair, that is an unacceptable answer. I am not asking the minister about criminal proceedings. I am asking the minister about his department's failures to enforce the rules that are specifically under his mandate.

He refused to answer my first question, so my next question is this: On what basis was GC Strategies, which had no technical capabilities, pre-qualified as an IT contractor based on the rules set out by the department the minister oversees?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I have said numerous times, there are rules in place and rules are being followed, and this particular case is under investigation. It is not appropriate for a minister responsible for any portfolio to comment on cases that are under—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member.

[Michael Barrett, Conservative, Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands—Rideau Lakes, ON]

Mr. Chair, what is not appropriate is for a minister to refuse to answer questions when the opposition is looking to determine if we can have confidence in his department and when the Liberals are looking for $222 billion in new spending authorities, which is the exercise that we have this evening in this committee of the whole.

How did the Treasury Board, the minister's department, allow payments of $60 million for what is known as the arrive scam to be paid to GC Strategies without documented deliverables?