Debates of June 12th, 2025

Main Estimates and Supplementary Estimates (A), 2025-26

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The government deputy House leader has less than 10 seconds.

[Arielle Kayabaga, Liberal, London West, ON]

Mr. Chair, I just want to thank the minister for being here tonight to answer questions. If there is anything else he wants to put on the record, I welcome him to do that.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, the estimates detail the amount of spending that the government is asking Parliament to approve. At the same time, the government is supposed to tell us what it intends to do with that money through the departmental plans that it usually tables at the same time. However, we still do not have the departmental plans.

The government is asking us for money but refuses to tell us how it plans to spend it.

Does the President of the Treasury Board think it is acceptable to ask for blank cheques?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, President of the Treasury Board]

Mr. Chair, I will be tabling the departmental plans before the House adjourns for the summer.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, before he asks us to authorize $487 billion in spending, could the President of the Treasury Board tell us what the projected deficit will be this year?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would remind my colleague that over 60% of the main estimates goes to the provinces and territories. There are the transfers for health care and dental care. It is really important to note that over 60% of the payments are going to provinces and territories for the various services that Canadians receive.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, that was actually not my question. I asked the President of the Treasury Board to tell us what the projected deficit will be this year.

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Speaker, again, I would refer to the main estimates. Currently, that is about 10%. That is all I can say.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, there is something strange in the estimates. The Canada Revenue Agency's budget is cut by $7 billion, or 40%. For years, when we press the government to take action against those who profit from the use of tax havens, it has been telling us that it will add resources to the CRA to fight against international tax avoidance. Now the government is cutting that money.

Are the estimates telling us that the government is giving up, might I say even more, on the abuse of tax havens?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, the new government was elected by Canadians to build a stronger Canada, to build our economy, one economy rather than 13 economies. That is exactly what we are focusing on to build Canada strong, to protect our borders, to protect our communities and to invest in our defence system.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, this new government is already 10 years old and after the answer I just got, it seems that it is not really going to change, either. I will move on.

Is the CRA's reduced budget good news, in fact?

Will Ottawa finally agree to allow Quebeckers to file a single tax return and to allow Revenu Québec to handle it? Is the elimination of the duplication reflected in the estimates?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would remind my colleague again that over 60% of the main estimates are transfer payments to provinces and territories for the delivery of health care services and other aspects.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, I was actually referring once again to a reduction that might make Quebeckers less inclined to use tax havens.

In budget 2023, amidst a big scandal over contracts awarded to McKinsey, the government announced that it would substantially reduce the budgets allocated to consulting firms. That never happened. Instead, the main estimates indicate that the amount allocated to consultants, that is, the “professional and special services” line item, will increase again this year by $7 billion, or 26%, from $19.1 billion to $26.1 billion.

Why can the government not honour its own commitment to reduce the use of external consultants, which is costing taxpayers a fortune?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, the government has started to work with the departments to cut spending on professional services and travel by $500 million. In 2024-25, 2.3 billion was reallocated to priority areas, and this year, 2025-26, that amount will be increased to 3.5 billion. That work began in 2023 and is ongoing.

The government is making sure that spending is being carefully managed and focused on our most pressing priorities. This year we are reallocating 3.5 billion to priority areas.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, the government is increasing spending. We understand that.

Much has been said about the $38 billion in new operating expenditures in the main estimates, which are up by 8.4%. However, when we take a closer look, it is even worse. Major transfers to individuals, such as old age security, or to the provinces, such as health transfers, are statutory appropriations that have not been voted on. Statutory appropriations are only increasing by 2.6%, which seems very reasonable, but it is not enough.

The main estimates that we will be voting on next Tuesday are what keep the federal bureaucracy running, and those are the amounts that are skyrocketing. They are increasing by $31 billion, a 16% increase. That is eight times more than what the Liberal Party promised during the election, when it promised to cap the increase at 2%.

Why?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I mentioned in my remarks, there has been much discussion about the increase in the main estimates compared to last year. This can be explained by three key factors. First, because the main estimates are being presented several months later than normal, they contain items that likely would have been included in supplementary estimates rather than in the main estimates. Second, the estimates contain increased spending in several key areas of importance to Canadians, including dental care, reconciliation and national defence. Third, the main estimates include increases in major transfer payments to provinces, territories and other organizations, as I mentioned earlier, make up the majority of the proposed spending.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, it is odd that the estimates are being tabled a little later than usual, yet the government is increasing spending eightfold. I hope that the health transfers will be sizable.

In Quebec, the government is on the defensive because the new computer system for the Société de l'assurance de l'automobile du Québec, or SAAQ, cost twice as much as expected, $1 billion instead of $500 million. One minister resigned. A public inquiry is currently under way to get to the bottom of this.

Meanwhile, in Ottawa, the government thinks it is normal to present estimates that triple the amount allocated to equipment purchases. The budget was $2.7 billion last year, and the government wants to increase that to $10.8 billion. That is a 190% increase, and it has nothing to do with the new spending on military equipment, which is in a separate document.

How does the government explain the 190% increase in spending on miscellaneous equipment purchases?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, Canadians elected the new government to take decisive and bold actions to build one economy, make Canada strong and create more jobs, and that is exactly what we are going to do. People can appreciate how, in one month, the new government has been working to not only deliver for Canadians but also remove the consumer carbon tax. This was the first action we took, and 22 million Canadians will get tax relief. I hope my—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Kmiec]

The hon. member has the floor.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, during the election, the new Liberals promised to enable border services officers to retire after 25 years of service instead of 35, as their union requested.

As the employer of the public service, does the President of the Treasury Board intend to implement that measure?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, what we promised Canadians during the election was that the new government will build one economy instead of 13, the new government will make Canada strong and the new government will invest more and spend less, and this is exactly what we are going to do.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, on top of having to go through Phoenix when it comes to their pay, public servants now have to go through Canada Life when it comes to their insurance.

As the employer of the public service, when will the President of the Treasury Board address the situation?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, I am committed to improving the services of any service provider to the public service. I expect the service provider to be up to the standard and to stay within those guidelines.

[Marilène Gill, Bloc, Côte-Nord—Kawawachikamach—Nitassinan, QC]

Mr. Chair, I hope it happens faster than it is taking to address the Phoenix issues. Speaking of Phoenix, that pay system has been failing for nine years, and those failures are putting public servants' lives at risk. As a member from the North Shore, I know what I am taking about.

Does the government intend to launch an independent investigation into this scandal?

[Shafqat Ali, Liberal, Brampton—Chinguacousy Park, ON]

Mr. Chair, there is a new government with an ambitious agenda. In a very short time, we have not only removed the consumer carbon—