Art Hanger

[Criminal Code, September 25th, 2001]

moved for leave to introduce Bill C-396, an act to amend the Criminal Code (dangerous child sexual predators).

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to introduce this private member's bill titled, Carrie's Guardian Angel Law. The purpose of the bill is to ensure that the fullest force of the law is brought to bear upon violent sexual predators.

Under the bill a violent sexual predator would receive a sentence of 20 years to life, with no chance of parole, in cases of sexual assault and aggravated sexual assault situations on a child, which also involved the use of a weapon, repeated assaults, multiple victims, repeat offences, more than one offender, confinement or kidnapping or the use of position of trust with respect to the child for sexual advantage.

To the victims and their families, the bill represents a return to fundamental justice. To those who prey on the young and the vulnerable in our society, if caught, they will be punished and punished severely.

(Motions deemed adopted, bill read the first time and printed)

[Customs Act, September 24th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the debate on Bill S-23 has certainly been very revealing in one sense. I know a lot of it has focused on the amendment before us which would include the issue of terrorism in the bill that would streamline the movement of people and goods across the border.

As I sat and listened to the comments of various members in the House it became very noticeable that they are all free traders. They want to see the movement of goods and services north and south in this country.

The NAFTA , struck by governments previous to one that sits in the House today, has become so essential to our economy, to our well-being, to who we are not only as Canadians but as people who share the North American continent, that we do not want to see any hindrance to the flow of goods and services within the North American continent.

That is very important to note because with that there will be a will to make sure that does not happen, that goods, services and people will not be hindered in their movement north and south.

In retrospect I recall campaign promises in the past to bury such things as NAFTA and any free trade rules or agreements. The reality is that now we have such agreements which are so essential to our well-being and we want to protect them.

I have certainly brought forward the one question that has been asked not just by myself but by other members of the House. How can we have streamlined, legitimate, cross-border trade and travel almost unhindered and still deal with the issue that has been brought before us by the amendment from this side of the House concerning the security of our combined countries?

I will repeat again the words of Director Ward Elcock who in 1998 called Canada one of the world's pre-eminent terrorist targets. He elaborated by saying that with perhaps the singular exception of the United States there are more international terrorist groups active here than in any other country in the world.

That is quite a statement to make. Apart from the United States, we have more terrorist groups and cells working here than in any other country in the world.

If he were the only one who said that, maybe we could say the statement was taken out of context or that it was slightly exaggerated. However he was not the only one who said it.

In 1999 after a special Senate committee on security and intelligence reviewed the issue of terrorist groups, the CSIS chief of strategic planning, David Harris, referred to Canada as a big jihad aircraft carrier for launching strikes against the United States. We had two individuals saying that very same thing in slightly different words.

I can remember coming into the House for the first time in 1994 and listening to the then solicitor general who now sits in the House as Deputy Prime Minister.

He said at that time that serious concerns had been passed on to him by CSIS about the instability which could result from groups that were actively involved in this country, that if they were to rise up they could destabilize the country. That is quite a broad statement to make, that they could actually destabilize the country.

Here is the issue which is before the government and every member of the House. We want the movement of goods and services to flow along so that our economies and our businesses do well. At the same time we want to provide security that will please not only our neighbours, because they are the ones that can take action against the movement of goods and services, but we also have to consider and please the citizens of our country. That is the issue at hand here on everything we say and do from this point forward. On every piece of legislation, whether it is through Revenue Canada and customs, whether it is through transport or even our security agencies, that is the question that will have to be answered.

How can we do it? Some time ago, prior to the Reform Party coming into parliament, a previous government tried to address that issue. Just before that party was voted out of power, it did come forward with a similar kind of concern and tried to address it as a government. Unfortunately those efforts were all cast aside when the Liberal government took over in 1993.

In my opinion there is only one way to address the issue of having a security network set up that would please the citizens of Canada and our American counterparts and also achieve the goal of almost unhindered cross-border trade. Until that issue is addressed, I do not think we will see unhindered movement of people and trade.

We must harmonize our policies with the United States and consider it in the same way that the NATO alliance works, that a strike against any one member of the alliance is a strike against all members; a strike against any one is a strike against all. In other words we should have a policy that is in harmony with our neighbours to the south. If they are concerned about security in a certain way, we should be just as concerned about it. We must harmonize our policies so that we have a security network. Two years ago at a united alternative meeting I suggested that we have a security network that falls under one ministry. A new ministry should be created that will look after the security network. I can give ample reasons for us to do that.

One thing I have discovered through the nine years I have been in parliament and being part of the different committees that examined the groups, agencies and enforcement areas is that they are all working independently of one another. Often information is not being shared. Their enforcement areas are all treated independently by the government.

Some groups should be bolstered up and lifted and resourced properly. Unfortunately the government takes the opposite point of view and they fall flat and later are disbanded or quietly removed from the scene. That is one area we should work on as a government, not only the government side, but the opposition side as well.

We should start planning now and work toward having one ministry that is in charge of our national security and even further, our North American security network.

[Customs Act, September 24th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, the emphasis of the hon. member's presentation was somewhat different than that of many others who made their presentations today, not so much on this side but certainly on the Liberal side and among Bloc members.

The member expressed concern about terrorism, organized criminal activity and the like. That will certainly be a focal point. If anyone in the House believes there will be a streamlining in the movement of goods and people south of the border which does not answer the security issue, their heads are buried in the sand.

Given that these two things are playing out right now before us, the movement of goods will affect the economy one way or the other. If goods are held up at the border and customers are lost our economy will be hurt substantially. We have seen this happen over the last few days with the slowdown at border crossings. It is making its impact on our economy and will certainly do so with the Americans.

The issue of security has still not been addressed in its total form. How does the member think we can have a streamlining of goods and people across the border and still meet all the needs of security?

[Customs Act, September 24th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member's presentation and found the issue of open borders and trade to be a compelling argument.

Any community actively dealing with its trading partners in the United States should be very concerned over the issue of security. The rumours the member heard about customs officers being pulled from the port of entry would certainly affect her riding. Whatever province in Canada we come from, close to 90% of our goods and services are tied to the American market and security should be examined closely.

I will ask a question I have asked several times in the House and one which I have not received much of a reply. On the one side the Customs Act wants to streamline legitimate cross border trade and travel by using new technology, electronic monitoring, self-assessment and advanced information for approval.

On the other side of the coin there is something that I believe needs to be addressed. I know there is an answer but I have not yet heard anything from the government side nor from the opposition side. I refer to the statement by the director of CSIS, Ward Elcock. He called Canada one of the world's pre-eminent terrorist targets. He further elaborated by saying “With perhaps the singular exception of the United States, there are more international terrorist groups active here than in any other country in the world”. I can see why, given our proximity to the United States.

With that security issue looming before us now, how can we streamline things on one side and also provide security on the other?

[Customs Act, September 24th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the member's response to the content of the bill. I will address my next question to one of his concern about the bill and not the Alliance amendment. The Alliance amendment basically deals with security matters.

In the member's comments he made reference to the movement of manufactured goods between Canada and the United States. I have had the opportunity, as have other members in the House, to examine how goods actually move through the Canadian side to the American side of the border and vice versa. The Americans have stepped forward with some very state of the art detection equipment where they no longer need to tear everything apart inside a container or a truck to see what is in it. They have a device that can x-ray the truck to determine if it contains people, goods or other questionable goods, such as drugs.

When I was last at the border it was with the member for Wild Rose. We were very much aware that one in twenty trucks would be checked at the border but when the line-up became too long some would not be checked at all. They would just drive around checkpoints and away they would go. There were times when the police would chase one or two of these units but needless to say many got away without any check.

With the situation as it is today, with border security tightening up, it is not necessarily tightening up for manufactured goods going back and forth but for the threat of the wrong kind of people coming through the border points. They may slip south or they may slip north. If we do not deal with the security side of the matter our manufacturing side may get hurt too because of long line-ups and the demand from our friends to the south for restricting that movement until everything is checked to their satisfaction.

What should Canada do that would assist or augment what exists presently in developing a better security arrangement to move manufactured goods through that border point?

[Customs Act, September 24th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I get the impression from the member's comments that his greatest concern about what is in the bill deals with the issue of privacy. It does reflect on the content of the bill per se.

I am curious as to what the member might think about the amendment that was put forward by the Alliance dealing with the issue of terrorism and the freedom of movement between peoples south of the border. How would he go about securing this continent in a way that would be acceptable to Mexico, Canada and the United States?

[Customs Act, September 24th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I would like to ask the member about a comment CSIS director Ward Elcock made in 1998. Mr. Elcock called Canada one of the world's pre-eminent terrorist targets and revealed that, with perhaps the singular exception of the United States, there were more international terrorist groups active here than in any other country in the world. Just how accurate his words were became evident when a Montreal resident was arrested trying to smuggle bomb making materials into the United States.

Bill S-23 talks about streamlining legitimate cross-border trade and travel. They have set up a process of electronic monitoring, self-assessment, advance information and pre-approvals.

Could the hon. member tell us how will the government balance both those concerns; on one hand, the free movement of goods and people and on the other hand, avoid catastrophes which already have happened where known terrorists in this country have crossed the border with the intention to wreak havoc in the United States?

[Canada-U.S. Meeting, September 20th, 2001]

Mr. Chairman, God help us if such a terrorist act befalls Canada's civilian population. I know who would be there to help. The United States would be the first, and there would be no questions asked.

I would like to address one thing since this is the first opportunity that I have actually had to speak on this subject. I, along with my family and so many others in the community and across the country, have looked at that horrible event time and time again on television. I was not there to witness it firsthand but it has left an impact and impression on the lives of so many people. It has even changed the whole makeup of this parliament. Just seeing the events unfold on the soil of our American neighbours has driven issues we thought were important literally into insignificant bickering.

My thoughts have been with them and their families and so have my prayers. In our church we prayed for the families and the grief and the agony those people are suffering. We watched America pull together too. Their Congress came together in a unified fashion knowing that the battle was not just theirs. How many times have they admitted it was not just their battle but that they would fight this battle for everyone else?

I pay tribute to them, their Congress, their firefighters and their police officers and all of the emergency response teams they sent from all over the country to help, and their population for responding with such compassion. That is what I see in America. That is what I see this event doing down there.

It has also affected the lives of Canadians no differently than it has affected them. We have a shared community with the Americans, not just giving them lip service but a lot more than just being a neighbour to them over the border. We share a lot more than that.

I would not want to be in the Prime Minister's shoes on Monday. They are not going to play around with words, but what words could the Prime Minister actually bring? He is looking for advice. That meeting is going to define Canada's role in the war against terrorism. I pray that the Prime Minister will come to realize this country's need too, not just our neighbour's but this country's need, because if we cannot look after our own needs, we cannot look after the needs of our neighbour. He should address the issues of national security not only with words but place national security as this country's single highest priority and then go and take some action. He can still do it before he goes down there. Our allies expect it. So do the citizens of this country. They demand it.

I, along with most members in the House, seek a commitment from the Prime Minister today to advise our friends and allies that we will not just stand by waving the flag. How many times have we gone into situations where all we did was just wave the flag? This time more is being asked than to just wave the flag: to commit to sending our troops, to commit in bringing our intelligence community together in full force and our enforcement capabilities as well. That is short term and it would only be the beginning.

Our Prime Minister has a moral obligation to bring something else to the American table, to lead, to pre-empt any demand made of Canada by the president of the United States. In other words we would be there ready to help without even waiting to hear what the President had to say. This is what we have to offer and we will do everything in our power to do it.

Before leaving this country the Prime Minister of Canada should announce to the public, parliament and to our American friends that we will finance, equip, and recruit personnel to build up our armed forces, the RCMP, CSIS and enforcement agencies such as immigration and customs. We will do that. We will commit it.

I have to say I am ashamed when I think of the neglect every enforcement agency and our military have suffered over the past 10 years. It has been due to a lack of commitment, of underfunding, of politically correct policies. We can go down the list all the way to eliminating our spy agencies that existed after the second world war with no thought of ever reinvigorating or re-establishing such agencies.

Let us look at the more recent disbandment of immigration tracker units that used to hunt down fugitives like this. That was in 1994. In 1995 there was the disbandment of the Airborne, a specialized unit known throughout the world that would take care of this kind of event. They would track down behind enemy lines culprits who would pull these kinds of stunts. The Airborne were well known throughout the world for their efficiency and their ability. That is Canada and it is gone just like that, in a breath. There was elimination of the ports police, a dedicated police force looking after our shores and ports, ferreting out contraband.

The most recent was the neglect to arm our military. We have no specialized ordnance attached to our planes. We shot it all off in Kosovo and we dropped all the iron bombs that we had, so we have nothing. It has never been replenished. Can we call that preparation?

It is shameful. The Prime Minister can take something of substance to the president of the U.S.A., but will he? He can offer certain assurances now that we are committed to beefing up our forces, but will he? The Prime Minister could advise President Bush and our allies that yes, we are serious about police and border security and while we are strengthening our enforcement levels, we invite the U.S. special agents to liaise directly with our intelligence community and our police, but will he?

That is the message the Prime Minister has to deliver for the short term, but will he? Now the Prime Minister must acknowledge a serious shortfall in our legislation and our policies, shortcomings which leave our country vulnerable and also compromise the security of our neighbours. This is what we need in our country: anti-terrorism legislation; immigration screening; effective extradition laws; refugee determination and deportation; and a unified security policy with the United States.

There is much the Prime Minister can do. If he takes any advice from this side of the House, he will be able to offer something more. A colleague earlier tonight stated, God bless America and God bless Canada. My prayer in addition to that of my colleague is yes, God bless America and yes, God bless Canada, but God forgive us as Canadians for not living up to our part of the bargain.

[Supply, September 18th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member's comments and he certainly confined them to a certain area when it comes to the fundraising activities of potential terrorist organizations that may or may not exist in Canada, creating an atmosphere of uncertainty as to how a government agency could dissuade or shut down any such operation.

It is a well known fact that there is a myriad of information accumulated by the RCMP, CSIS and other agencies in Canada. In the particular document I hold in my hand there is a summary of known terrorist organizations in Canada that have been watched and examined thoroughly. The evidence is insurmountable when it comes to their ties outside our country and what those mother organizations are involved in internationally.

I see no problem in monitoring such groups in Canada. I know that even in the House there have been members of parliament, some knowingly, some unknowingly, participating in fundraising activities put on by these organizations. The information is here and elsewhere to be able to curb such activity that would shut them down once and for all.

I would like the member to comment on that very subject because this is not a difficult matter to deal with when it comes to passing legislation that will prevent such organizations from existing in Canada.

[Attack on the United States, September 17th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I listened closely to the comments of the solicitor general.

Terrorism, organized criminal activity and organized illegal activities have been on the front burner for this party for some years.

It concerns me that up to the present time there has not been a real strong move to close the doors on many terrorists and their activities. Not only here but other countries too are facing the same dilemma.

Our neighbours, the United Kingdom, have brought in an anti-terrorism act in response to this. Is the solicitor general prepared to consider a comprehensive anti-terrorism act as are our brothers and sisters in the United Kingdom as well as the United States?