Mr. Speaker, if that is the best this government can do, no wonder the country is in trouble. If that is the best bill the justice minister can come up with to deal with violent offenders, no wonder there are so many victims out there. It is going to continue because the bottom line is that violent offenders will still be released back out into the community. The checks and balances are neutral when it comes to dealing with the most violent offenders in our society.
Let us look at some statistics. These are from the parole board. This data from the board deals with violent and serious offenders. It states that only about one-half of a violent offender's sentence is served. I would assume that includes murderers. Attempted murderers, for example, serve an average of 48 months when the courts have really sentenced them to 94 months. That is only one-half of the sentence. The parole board is releasing violent criminals after they have served one-half of their sentence. In the cases of manslaughter, the actual time served by the offenders averaged 44 months when the original court sentence was 84 months.
Finally, with respect to people who have committee aggravated assault or rape, the average offender was released after having served 49 months, 4 years, of a sentence of 79 months. This bill does not address any of that other than the fact that the government insists on releasing the violent offenders back out into the community.
What are the answers? I think there are answers. First, we have to start looking at what is happening in our courts. A sentence given is not served any more, as I have stated. Approximately one-half of the sentence is served. It is high time we went back to truth in sentencing. The rehabilitative model that is touted on the government side has been a dismal failure. Truth in sentencing laws would bring some sort of balance back into the system.
If a rapist received a 10-year sentence, which it is unlikely, he would then serve that sentence. That is what we and the people of this country are looking for and want. People want to have a measure of safety in their communities. Unfortunately many people are not feeling that which will be very evident in the next election.
Just going door to door in my riding I am picking that up at the door. I know that the members across the way are also picking that up. In fact, there are some people in the lobby right now visiting from British Columbia who are picking it up because they have been personally hit by crime as victims. Apart from that, the average person feels very uneasy and unsafe on our streets right now.
We talk about truth in sentencing and about a sentence given should be a sentence served. In other words, life should mean life with no eligibility for parole. Why should a first degree murderer get out on the street at any time? There is no reason for it. Why should a man who has taken another man's or woman's life get out on the street?
If we look at the statistics on first degree murderers we see that out of the 46 who applied for early release up to mid-1995, 11 killed women: their wives, girlfriends or people they knew. They received early release. I would say that a murderer would definitely fall into the classification of a dangerous offender. Yet those who have been convicted of that heinous crime are being released on to the street.
Eight of those 46 killed policemen. That is a deliberate act. No mistake can be made that it was other than the intention of killing the police officer, the person in authority.
Three of those murderers who obtained early release killed children. I am sorry but I do not see this bill addressing any of that. The sentence given by the courts is being chopped by the parole board and by applications for early release. Now other provisions under section 55 allegedly restrain them further but I do not see
where the restraint is. Violent offenders are still getting out on our streets. Bill C-55 does not stop it.
The parliamentary secretary spoke of indeterminate sentencing, that a court will decide whether or not the offender will continue to serve his time. That may be well and good but it is also putting it on the shoulders of the courts. The court's dealings with those types of offenders has not been very good.
I have an individual in my riding by the name of Tocher. I mentioned him the other day. Since 1982, he has been abusing kids. He abused three boys in the last set of offences. Now he is in court and has been given a short sentence again, something like 18 months. He has been doing that since 1982. He has been in and out of the court system five times for similar types of offences. What good are the courts doing? He has never been declared a dangerous offender. That available to the courts at the time. What is going to change? It is just going to be business as usual.
The answer to the alleged crowding problem in our prisons is to release him into the community. I do not see Bill C-55 changing a whole lot.
How can we have a guarantee that the message is going to get to the criminal? What is the guarantee? The criminal has to understand that if he steps across the line that this will happen to him. The sentence, the incarceration and the place where he spends it will not be pleasant because he stepped over the line.
We put an amendment forward on this bill. It was called a two strikes amendment. In other words, if someone commits a violent offence, and serves the majority of the time, the message would be sent to that offender that if he committed a second offence, he would go away for an indefinite period of time. The sentence will be a minimum of 15 years if he commits another violent offence, perhaps even longer, maybe even life.
That message has to be sent to the offender. It is a revolving door in our prisons. It is a well known fact that 70 per cent of those serving time have served time before.
There is no reason why the government could not send that message to a criminal. The criminals are getting arrogant because they know they can get away with too much. They are getting arrogant when they pick on our kids. They do it time and time again because nothing happens to them. They are not treated like criminals. Sure, they are restrained from moving around for a little while but everybody rushes to protect them and support them. Some say that it is society's fault. Unfortunately it is their fault because they are the ones who chose to commit the crime that put them in jail.
I have said these things in public before. There is no reason I should not have said them. I think the majority of people want to see stiffer penalties for prisoners.
I paid a visit to the Bowden Institution, a prison in Alberta. The prisoners heard that I was coming and circulated a petition about my anticipated arrival. Many of those serving time look at me as a threat because I tell them that they should be working for a living. Even if they are behind bars they should be productive. The productivity rate inside our prisons is a dismal shame. If prisoners are not unemployed in prison, the majority of them are underemployed by far. Part of my theme was that they should be working for a living.
Activist prisoners within the prison system circulated a poster that said: "Art Hanger is coming to threaten the inmates of Bowden. Art Hanger wants you to have no temporary absences or parole". They are absolutely right. I do not want them to have a lot of temporary absences or parole. Why should they have? They are serving time for committing the crimes that put them in there. They should be paying society back for their crimes. They should be doing something instead of being out on parole. The parole system is obviously not working.
The poster also said: "Art Hanger wants you to be involved in slave labour". I do want them to work, absolutely. Why should they not work? They call that slave labour. They should be doing all kinds of things. Maybe they should even be earning a wage and a portion of it could go to support the victims they victimized. They could pay for their room and board. Then maybe they could keep some of the money left over as a stake for when they get out.
There is another nonsensical part of the Correctional Service of Canada's policy. Inmates are only allowed to accumulate $80. When they walk out the door of the prison they have no money in their pockets. They have barely enough to survive for a night. They should at least be earning minimum wage but they should be productive. They should be doing something.
The poster goes on to say that I want them to have no recreation. The riot in Millhaven was a result of change in routine. Inmates felt they should have more recreation time. To get their point across they killed a man. They wanted to tell management they were unhappy because they were not getting what they wanted, more recreational time or a return to the old routine. There is something wrong with that mentality.
The poster goes on to indicate that I want them castrated and tortured. I do not want them castrated or tortured. Nor has Reform ever said that in any of its policies. This is their concern. I understand why they may have that concern in that 70 per cent of the inmates in the Bowden Institution are sex offenders.
There is something wrong with the attitude of the offenders in our jails today. It has been nurtured by the corrections policy and supported by government sanctioned rights. There is something wrong.
It went on to say that I wanted them locked up for 24 hours. I want them locked up for 24 hours. In fact I want them locked up until they serve their entire sentences, as do most people in the country do. The violent offender should not get out until he has served his sentence. The violent offender should stay in there and work to pay for his keep.
The poster summed up their list of complaints about me in the following statement: "Art Hanger wants you dead". I do not want them dead. I want them to correct their behaviour and I see that the present system is not helping them do that. It is creating arrogance among the prison population. They know they will not be punished for what they do. They will be detained for a while, but everybody rushes in to protect them, to help them and to counsel them. There is no punishment. from the viewpoint of those inside that is what our system is all about. I might add that is shared by prisoners in other prisons. I have talked to enough prisoners to know.
There is also something wrong on the management side, the policy makers. Along with two other members I had an opportunity to go to Edmonton maximum security in December 1995. There was a lot of snow on the ground. It was much like northern Saskatchewan where the parliamentary secretary to the justice minister lives. The prison houses approximately 400 prisoners. The warden heard we were coming. He wanted to make sure the staff of the prison knew we were coming. He sent out a memo which happened to get into the hands of the press and of the Reform Party. This is what it stated:
The members for Calgary Northwest, Fraser Valley West and the member for Wild Rose will be visiting us on December 1, 1995. These gentlemen are known to be ardent critics of CSC and are quite vocal in expressing their views.
I want to ensure that Edmonton Institution is at its best, giving very little reason for criticism. Therefore this institution will be spotless. Areas needing paint will be painted. Inmates will be visibly at work during their tour (as they should be anyway) and programs will be in full swing. This includes the protective custody unit.
I do not want to see inmates lying around doing nothing (not that this would happen anyway). I have not seen a lot of activity that involves inmates shovelling snow. The walks should not be cleared with snow-blowers. Push shovels are more appropriate. Buy them if you need them.
For what? The message was just because we came to visit them. They wanted to have the appearance that everything was okay and that everyone in the prison was working. There is something wrong with a policy that allows things like that to happen in our prison system.
As a result Bill C-55 is an attempt to sound like something is being done. What is being done? Nothing. There is no punishment in the present correctional system. There is no accountability as there should be. It is a revolving door.
We would like to see accountability. We want to see sentences delivered by our courts fully served, especially those of violent offenders. We want to see two strikes legislation. Why should a person after being released once and committing another violent offence have the same opportunity to serve another short sentence and be back out on the streets to do it for a third time? Why should that happen? No wonder the list of victims and victims groups is growing. It will continue to grow because violent offenders are still being released into society. Their behaviour has not been corrected in spite of all the programs and the case management reports.
I thought of another case management report directed to the killer of a policeman. A fellow, Craig Munro, allowed a police officer to bleed to death after he shot him and held him hostage. Now he is applying for early release. He is a shooter. The man should not even have an opportunity to make application. Yet the government is insisting on leaving that provision in there. It is insisting on turning violent criminals back out on to the street under Bill C-55.
I turn to one of the most significant devastating crimes in this decade and in the ones coming up. I am referring to the area of sex crimes, pedophilia, and crimes against children. It already is extensive. If we talk to the sex crimes and child abuse units in any police department, we find they cannot even handle the number of complaints they get. They have to refer them to social services. The cases they are referring are becoming more and more intense, difficult and substantive. The police cannot keep up.
How will we handle pedophiles? Long term offenders provisions will not do it. The parliamentary secretary to the justice minister should explain how that will happen. It will not going to happen. It will be status quo court decisions and status quo incarceration for very short periods of time.
I just finished relating the story of Mr. Tocher and the number of times he has been in and out of the prison system. He kept going back and forth over the last 15 years. He is victimizing our kids. Is it any wonder parents complain when they see somebody hanging around a playground zone such as happened in Calgary? Parents complained about a adult male hanging persistently around the playground zone. They were frightened and the police could not do anything about it. He had a record as a pedophile and the police could not do anything about it.
I said I would do something about it. They organized and protested in and around the park until the police went in there and laid some charge on him. It is awareness. Parents are concerned about their kids and the long term offender provisions in Bill C-55 will not touch them. Most police officers, most prison staff and even psychiatrists say that pedophiles cannot be cured. What can we do? We should keep them in prison for a long, long time.
It should be on the shoulders of the psychiatrist and whoever else signs the document that releases a pedophile to guarantee he will not reoffend. If he does they should pay the consequence. Somebody has to be held accountable and that is not happening in our present system.
Many provisions in Bill C-55 sound like they are doing the right thing. Pedophilia is inadequately addressed. The Criminal Code should be expanded to address the impact which pedophilia has on kids.
I have not addressed the judicial restraint provision which, as the parliamentary secretary stated, will be in section 810 of the Criminal Code. That provision will be extremely difficult to enforce.
The Reform Party will vote against the bill, in part because the government did not accept the amendments put forward by Reform. Those amendments would have made the bill much stronger.
