Loyola Hearn

[Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, May 11th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, my supplementary question is for the minister of fisheries who administers the great lucrative shrimp resource off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador.

The minister has a whole lineup of people looking for quotas. Does the minister not think that it is about time his department, and the government generally, said to those who are looking to us for such quotas “I will give you the resource provided you show me how you will create jobs onshore”?

[Atlantic Canada Opportunities Agency, May 11th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the minister responsible for ACOA. Since the moratorium hundreds of millions of dollars have been dumped into Atlantic Canada in fisheries diversification and Atlantic partnerships, a lot of it through the minister's department. However a lot of that money cannot be reinvested in the fishery, yet the fishery is the best job generator in Atlantic Canada.

Does the minister not think his department should probably look at investing more money in the fishery in research, in experimental equipment, in marketing, and I suppose—

[Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, May 10th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of Canadian Heritage.

From the fall of 1999 to the fall of 2000, viewers of CBC Newfoundland dropped by more than 50% over the evening news time slots. Will this be the excuse for CBC to eliminate local news programming and do through the back door what it was embarrassed to do through the front door?

Will the minister finally agree with the wishes of rural Canadians and tell CBC to return to its original news format, here and now?

[Housing, May 9th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to be able to say a few words on the issue.

A little less than a year ago, shortly after I was elected, I found myself in British Columbia with a colleague, Gilles Bernier, who was then my party's critic for the department. Mr. Bernier did a lot of work on this file and we became well aware of the major problem facing people in British Columbia. People in other provinces were affected as well, but certainly the crisis was in British Columbia.

A lot of people do not realize the magnitude of the problem. The building envelope failure or, as we call it, the leaky condo crisis, has led to at least 7,500 condo owners having to claim bankruptcy. That is 7,500 owners.

Average repair costs are over $21,000 per owner, a total loss of investment of almost $59,000 for the average owner. There are estimated to be almost 13,000 consumer bankruptcies as a direct result of the leaky condo crisis. The issue impacts about 70% of the districts in British Columbia. This is not an isolated case of a housing program in some community. It is a major concern to many people in the province of British Columbia.

In reaction to the leaky condo crisis the British Columbia government empowered the Barrett commission to make recommendations. Motion No. 293 which we are discussing seeks to implement at the federal level the spirit of recommendations 79 and 80 of the Barrett commission. Recommendation 79 states:

For purposes of reconstruction, all GST and PST, payable on qualified repairs and renovations, should be repealed. In this way, the owner/occupier is treated by taxation the same way as the owner/landlord.

Recommendation 80 states:

All GST and PST that has been paid on renovations should be refunded to homeowners.

The B.C. government has embraced the plan and eliminated the provincial sales tax from qualified repairs. However the federal government has repeatedly refused to remove the GST from leaky condo repairs although it has exempted new homes from the GST and does not tax certain luxury items. The government does not tax luxuries in some cases and yet it taxes misfortune. That is what is occurring here.

As I listened to the parliamentary secretary I was hit by a couple of the words he used. One was sympathetic. He said that the government was sympathetic to the problem in British Columbia and that it was giving it serious consideration. I ask the parliamentary secretary and the government: How many leaky condos can be repaired with sympathy or serious consideration?

The parliamentary secretary said that tax credits could not be used for relief in cases like this. The government of British Columbia found a way to use taxes to relieve the situation. If there is a will there is a way. The problem with the federal government is that the will is not there.

Yesterday in the House we had a debate about the cleanup of St. John's harbour. Let us talk about coincidence. The NDP member who spoke before me mentioned $27 million that the parliamentary secretary said had been given to British Columbia. That was very good of him but he did not say when it was given. The hon. member from the NDP, a British Columbia resident, said that it was in October of last year.

What happened in October? An election campaign was going on. Perhaps it is my devious mind but I wonder if the $27 million given to British Columbia, which the government bragged about as if it were $75 million, had anything to do with the election. At the same time the government promised Newfoundland $33 million to clean up St. John's harbour.

We saw what happened yesterday. The government said that there was infrastructure money but that it needed to pick and choose. It said nothing about the ordinary infrastructure agreement last October. It was a specific program.

Two things are becoming quite clear. First, the government has no will to do what it should be doing. Ways can be found to help the people of British Columbia. A very simple way is being recommended here this evening with this motion. However the government says that it will not do so because it does not have the will. There are ways to help but the government says that it will not do so.

This is no surprise to any of us. The people affected by this are going through severe trauma. Many of them are bankrupt or wondering how they will pay for the necessary repairs. What are we saying here in the House? The government says that it does not care. That is not the way it should be.

This evening we hope to convince the government to change its mind, agree with us on the motion and provide the people of British Columbia the assistance they not only need but deserve. There is a way if the government is willing.

[Infrastructure, May 9th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the Minister of the Environment. The Minister of Industry said that the cleanup of St. John's harbour would take all the infrastructure money allocated to the whole province. This is incorrect. The $100 million cost is to be spread over a five to ten year period.

The province has committed its one-third share. The municipalities have committed their one-third share. In light of this, will this environmentally conscious minister commit to the one-third share, $3 million to $6 million a year, to finish the job?

[Patent Act, May 7th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I am not sure whether I agree with the hon. member's opening remarks that we are fundamentally different in many of our views. I suggest there is no one in the House perhaps more concerned about the plight of average citizens, of which I am one, than I am. As I mentioned earlier, I also know full well that to be able to assist those who need assistance somebody has to pay the bills. People say that government should do it, but from where does government get the money?

If there are people who because of illness, disabilities or whatever cannot contribute to the public coffers, it is our duty to make sure they get every benefit they deserve. The dollars needed to do that have to be generated by someone, and that someone has to be the private sector.

If government is conscious of what is happening we can have, as I said earlier, the best of both worlds.

The people who need help should get it, but those who are producers will be protected in a proper legislative framework. Also the people will be protected from any rip-offs. I think we have to be very conscious of that.

[Patent Act, May 7th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, there are probably three points tied up in the overall question. In asking the question, I think the hon. member agrees with me that it is time we looked at the whole issue. Perhaps there will be some variation in time. However the other side is that generic groups, not only generic drugs but all generic groups, would have nothing to copy if somebody did not do the original work and put the money up front.

The change being asked for in Bill S-17 is because of compliance with World Trade Organization rulings. NDP members are against free trade. They are against the private sector. They are for getting money into the hands of average people and making sure their costs are minimal.

We also agree with the last one point, but unlike the NDP we know we cannot help people have access to cheap drugs, receive the social services they need and obtain the health care assistance they need unless somebody generates the dollars which enable us to reinvest in that. We could only do that through trade, commerce and investment by the private sector.

[Patent Act, May 7th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, I agree with the member that there are concerns in this area. Because of the amount of drugs we see, the cost of drugs, the effect of the cost on our population and the need to develop drugs to combat major diseases such as cancer and AIDS, perhaps it is time for somebody, whether it be the Minister of Industry, who is by the way a constituent of mine, or someone else, to take a hard look at the whole drug operation.

It is difficult perhaps for people to think that after they put time and effort into developing a product others will duplicate it quickly and sell it at a lower cost. If people do the original work developing something, whether drugs, cars or records, as I talked about, and others are allowed to copy, reproduce and make money on those efforts, the original investors will get fed up with it.

What happens if new drugs are not developed? That is the question we must face. How can we create an environment in which everyone benefits? It can be done. It takes leadership, co-ordination and proper legislation. If protective measures are not there for the forerunners in all this I am not sure what the result will be. We will have a lot more concerns than just the cost of drugs.

[Patent Act, May 7th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to say a few words on Bill S-17. It is an interesting day in the House as we see the debate unfold.

A lot of people across the country think that when one is in government one agrees with certain things but when the shoe is on the other foot one always objects to whatever government does. In a couple of cases here, that is not factual.

After listening to the debate from our friends in the NDP, I would say that it is quite clear that they stand where they always did on the issue. I will be making it quite clear that in my party we stand where we have always stood on the issue. In this case, we support the bill, as we did when the original bills were introduced by the Tory government and, as has been pointed out a number of times today, objected to strenuously by the then opposition party, which is now the governing party. It is amazing how the tide turns.

I did not think I would be supporting my friend and colleague, the minister of trade and industry. It is very difficult to do in light of several issues about which we thoroughly disagree. However, my party does support him on this issue because the bill itself was a Tory initiative.

I will explain to my friends from the NDP why we support it and I think by the time I am finished they will also perhaps agree with us and support the bill.

However, it is interesting to note that the government of today was against the original bills, Bill C-91 and Bill C-22, when they were introduced in 1987 and 1992. The more interesting parts of all of this are some of the comments made by those who are now government members. Some of the people who voted against those bills, by the way, were the present Deputy Prime Minister and present government House leader.

In 1992 during the debate on Bill C-22, the minister of industry and trade, who is sponsoring this bill, said “It is inconceivable to me that parliament finds it necessary yet again to deal with yet another measure proposed by the government because it is bound and chained to some ideological dictate which says this kind of patent act is necessary”.

I am sure he was reading from a prepared speech when he said that. However, at the time he was against the very bill which he is now proposing.

Here is another interesting quote from him, which leads into what I have to say. He said:

The citizens will need more than generic drugs to recover from the festering wounds which are about to be inflicted on the exposed ankles of Canada's poorest citizens when the Minister sinks his teeth in past the bone, into the marrow and sucks the life's blood out of Canada's poorest citizens with Bill C-22.

Those are strange and interesting words, which came from the present Minister of Industry.

People are allowed to change their minds. People see the light and become converted. The minister said today that he had been concerned about the increase in drug prices at the time, but they did not happen. He said indirectly that Prime Minister Mulroney had been right to bring in such a bill. Just a short while ago, as has been pointed out today, the minister said that Prime Minister Mulroney was right about free trade.

It will be interesting to see over the next while how many things the minister agrees with that he fought so hard against as a rat packer before his party became the government.

The NDP has expressed a concern, of which all of us are conscious, that the bill might lead to increased drug prices for people with major illnesses, many of whom cannot afford the drugs they need.

One of the most memorable occasions for me during the last campaign, and I am sure members on all sides of the House remember talking to people affected by the cost of drugs, was meeting a gentleman who had just been diagnosed with Alzheimers and whose wife was trying to cope with it. A drug had been prescribed to retard the advancement of the disease, a drug called Aricept I believe. The drug was not covered by medicare and the family had to pay the extremely high cost themselves. That meant other pleasures of life had to be sacrificed, including a little car that enabled them to get back and forth to the cabin. They had to sell the car to pay for the drugs. That is not the way it should be in Canada.

Can we blame pharmaceutical companies for that? The answer is no. We blame governments for that, because if an effective drug is brought on the market, tested and approved, the government should immediately sponsor it under medicare.

The NDP has expressed major concerns about drug companies getting rich and the impact of drug costs on poor people. However one important element has not been raised: Those who need drugs would not have them if somebody did not put the time, effort and money into their development.

Let us look at cancer. Very few of us in the House are not affected, directly or indirectly, by that dreaded disease. Will we ever find the cure for it? The answer is that we are hopeful. Will we find the cure for AIDS and other dreaded diseases worldwide? Luckily our country is not affected to the same degree as other countries but certainly we are affected by it. Will cures be found for dreaded diseases? They will be found in only one way: If somebody puts the dedicated research into coming up with a drug that will kill or retard the growth of the agents causing those diseases. That can only be done, as I said, by time, concentration and funding.

My colleagues to my right, ideologically to my left, are very supportive of the arts.

I would ask them about the art industry. What if a recording artist made a big hit which took a lot of time, involvement, practice and rehearsals? What would the hon. members think if other performers, who were not as dedicated or bright or could not put together that one great hit, knew it was coming on the market, copied it and pirated the copies around the country? How would it affect the person who put the time and dedication into developing the product?

Drugs are not unlike that. Our hope of combating the major illnesses that affect people across the country may lie in the hope that a pharmaceutical company will develop a cure.

We could say governments should be the ones doing that and pumping money into research. I certainly would not disagree. However, if governments were the ones responsible for doing research, I would question whether the work could be done. Government cannot be as efficient as the private sector. That has been proved over and over.

My concern lies with the people across the country who are faced every day with having to buy drugs. I point to the government opposite and say that should be its main concern. It has the mechanism to alleviate the costs shoved upon people for drugs to treat illnesses. In a lot of cases there are drug assistance programs to do just that. There are always those who fall between the cracks but a smart, sharp government could deal with such cases if it had any vision.

If the people who put their time, effort and money into developing the needed drugs are not given the freedom and protection to do so, they will not do it. They are not in the business of trying to make a breakthrough only to have it taken away from them. When another company immediately starts making generic drugs or starts to stockpile so it can wipe out the company that developed the original drug, that is not fair competition.

The fallout can be handled by government. We could have the best of both worlds if we had a government with brains and vision. Protection and help can be given to those who develop the drugs we need, but assistance can also be given to those who rely on them and cannot afford to pay for them.

It is interesting to see the government trying to solicit support for a bill it was once so much against. I know the NDP, even if it does not agree with us, is saying what it has always said. It has not changed its opinion because the stripe of government has changed.

We are saying the same thing we have said and the same thing the Bloc is saying. I agree totally with its last speaker. The Alliance is also saying that if we are to produce the drugs needed to combat the concerns the NDP talks about, freedom and protection must be given to companies that put the time and effort into developing the cures that are so badly needed.

The government, however, has switched back and forth, which shows that its concern is not for people or companies in Canada. Its concern is for itself. That has become more and more evident.

As we debate the bill further we will all have more to say on it. However we stand on the principles we announced when the original bills were brought in. We think this protection must be provided. Hopefully government will address the other side of the concern.

[Fisheries, May 4th, 2001]

Mr. Speaker, that is the same answer as last year. I would like to ask the minister about the recreational fishery.

Newfoundland over the last few years has been limited to a fishery on a couple of weekends. This year the member for Gander—Grand Falls told Newfoundlanders that the minister would allow a lengthy fishery where each individual would be able to buy 40 or 50 tags for the recreational fishery in the province.

Will the minister explain what type of recreational fishery he plans for the province of Newfoundland this year?