Sue Barnes

[First Nations Oil and Gas and Moneys Management Act, November 3rd, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I know that my hon. colleague across the floor has a great number of years of experience in his prior life.

This is a new start for these first nations who will have the capacity to take advantage of this legislation. It does necessitate a change in philosophy.

I want the member to tell the House and members of the public about those first nations who are ready to take this step, the health of those first nations and their desire to move forward with a new economic reality. This includes the management of the fiscal resources that will flow from their use of this legislation, which the member knows is optional even though it was piloted by some proponent first nations. If other first nations want to go forward with it, that ability will still be there.

I would like the member to draw upon his experiences and perhaps talk about some of the first nations that are ready to take this historic leap forward.

[Petitions, October 26th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present a petition today which has been signed by numerous constituents in my riding of London West. The petitioners ask that Parliament consider a meaningful joint recovery strategy with our American neighbours to protect the orca population living off the B.C. coast.

I have met with a young lady, who is eight or nine years of age, Precious Soufan, who organized the petition. I commend her for her very hard work and dedication on this important environmental issue.

[London Police Service, October 24th, 2005]

Madam Speaker, it is with great pleasure that I rise in the House today to speak about an important part of my city of London's history.

This year marks the London Police Service 150th anniversary. Among the Service's greatest achievements was its expansion and its modernization. This is because of a growing population and also because we all know that the technological and scientific advancements have factored into our modern day police work. The Service actively took up these challenges and has evolved today to be a very distinguished organization that we are all proud of.

Londoners of 1855 probably could not have imagined the work that is being done now and what the future had in store for their police service. The changes may have seemed incomprehensible and non-recognizable but not everything would be different.

Today, 150 years later, constables still march their beats, following in symbolic paths of their predecessors, both men and women, who have met the challenges through the generations.

We congratulate them and we thank them.

[First Nations Oil and Gas and Moneys Management Act, October 6th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the Bloc Québécois and particularly this member for their support. He has always supported all aboriginals in Canada. This is very important.

That level of understanding in the House by all members of Parliament, which the member possesses, is especially beneficial. I know he understands the necessity of community support.

In the context of this bill or any bill, could the member tell us, from his experience as a negotiator in his past life, how much time it takes to properly get out into the individual communities so that they are in a good position to ratify these agreements when they come out? Is this something that is done in weeks or months? What would happen if that community support was not there, in his opinion, with respect to the success of any project or piece of legislation for that matter?

[First Nations Oil and Gas and Moneys Management Act, October 6th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, first, I will confirm that the Government of Canada has learned lessons in making bills optional. The one answer then flows from that premise. Not everybody will be ready to assume this.

I would love everybody to get in on it, but the reality is there is a diversity of cultures. First nations are not homogeneous. There are over 600 first nations. They have cultural backgrounds that vary. There are some things that they hold in common, for example in their value systems, but there is uniqueness in their cultures, geographies and languages and also in their capacity stages.

We would be hopeful that as soon as this bill could become law, and that requires not the House but the other place, those first nations that are ready will rapidly go into this bill. There are other first nations that are preparing themselves right now and have shown interest in Indian moneys. I do not think we will see a rush. I think people will work toward this, and that is perfectly acceptable and right. That is a logical way.

I will also acknowledge that there is a continuum of readiness. If the main focus in the community is getting some infrastructure in place and there is limited human resource, expertise and moneys, their heads may not be around all the requirements of getting ready for this. Canadians expect accountability and first nations communities themselves have asked us for the accountability on the fiscal side on the bill also. The auditing and accountability mechanisms are important.

Again, I stress that this is because of the hard work of first nations. This is a first nations-led initiative. The partnership of working toward these types of bills is absolutely crucial to success. We should not measure outcome on a bill like this on how rapidly other people get in. What we should be looking for is the progression of readiness on a number of fronts simultaneously. It is our responsibility as parliamentarians to assist where we can with legislation and other efforts, and we are moving in that direction.

Compared to many decades ago, as government right now, we also are being extremely progressive and moving rapidly on what we consider the appropriate processes to deal not only with our legislation but first nations communities.

[First Nations Oil and Gas and Moneys Management Act, October 6th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, part of the function we provide to not only ourselves in the House but to all Canadians is to educate our constituencies. My constituency has no first nations reserve on it, so a lot of people are not as knowledgeable as we all should become on these issues. That is why debate in Parliament and that type of question helps.

As my hon. colleague is aware, there are different ways and strategies to achieve self-government. It can be done through a treaty process where there are land claims. Last year the member's party, as well as the other parties in the House, supported self-government with land claims in various regions of the country.

It can be done at the treaty table, and we are moving forward across the country on some of these treaties. Modern treaties are a little more difficult than the historical treaties that preceded them, but essentially we are coming to better understandings and the government is relating in a better manner and changing mandates over time to achieve self-government.

For those areas of the country that are not covered or in negotiation at this time, the other way of building up the capacity to self-government is through what I would term sectoral self-government bills. In the House last year, for example, we had a money management statistical institution for statistical institutes. All parties in the House worked together collaboratively, both here and in committee, to move this area of capacity building and expertise forward.

Not every first nation has the ability to move immediately from A to Z. Sometimes we have to build a process. Not only that, we have to build the consent of the community to not only understand but to approve that process. Under self-government often there is movement outside of the Indian Act and that can be scary for some people. However, we have shown that it is economically and socially progressive and people are moving forward.

I am not saying that everything is wonderful. There is work to be done in all these areas. With the understanding of parliamentarians and Canadians, it can be done. First nations people are Canadians. They are citizens who aspire to the same quality of life that we aspire to in the country, but it is unequal right now.

The capacity building comes not only from the treaty process but from some of these bills. This is enabling legislation that has portions of that. I congratulate not only the Saskatchewan first nations but other first nations in Saskatchewan that have been supportive of the progress of this legislation. Maybe at some point in time we will be hearing from them also.

I hope that helps expand the hon. member's thoughts on this. I hope all of us can agree that this is productive work to help our first nations citizens. Helping first nations also helps all Canadians.

[First Nations Oil and Gas and Moneys Management Act, October 6th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, the bill before us today is an important step forward in addressing the unacceptable socio-economic gap that separates so many First Nations people from other Canadians. It would help to ensure that First Nation communities that choose to opt into this legislation would have access to the bounty their lands have to offer and a greater share of Canada's prosperity.

The legislation would provide First Nations with the opportunity to manage and regulate their oil and gas resources, as well as collect and manage future revenues flowing from them.

As well, the legislation would allow First Nations to decide whether to exercise full authority over the management of their moneys derived from activities on reserve and currently held for them in trust in the consolidated revenue funds.

I would like to underscore the important work undertaken by the White Bear, Blood Tribe and Siksika First Nations, which initiated this process to take over the management and control of their oil, gas and moneys, and worked with Canada to develop this enabling legislation to achieve this goal.

In the last five years, over 900 wells were drilled on First Nation lands. Last year alone, industry invested $76 million in drilling on First Nation lands, with over 250 new wells drilled on 37 reserves.

In 2003-04, Indian Oil and Gas Canada administered over 3,500 active surface and subsurface agreements on 70 Indian reserves. The revenues collected on behalf of First Nations were valued in the $200 million range.

When the Prime Minister has spoken about his concerns for aboriginal advancement, he has made it very clear that our government believes aboriginal people in Canada must participate fully in all that Canada has to offer, with greater economic self-reliance and an ever-improving quality of life that naturally follows.

In outlining the strategy to achieve that goal, he underscored the need for more successful aboriginal businesses, more economic development and greater self-sufficiency.

At the historic policy retreat this past May, the government re-confirmed that commitment and that is exactly what this bill helps achieve in the goal and the movement forward.

What it means is that the First Nations that choose to take advantage of this new legislation will be able to play a key role in Canada's booming oil sector, creating jobs, spin-off businesses and increased opportunities for both social and economic development.

Let me give some of the history that has led to this achievement. In 1994, the Indian Resource Council, an organization that supports First Nations in their efforts to attain management and control of oil and natural gas resources, came forward with a proposal for a pilot project.

The Indian Resource Council is a stand alone First Nations owned and operated agency representing over 130 First Nations with oil and gas interests. The objective of the council's pilot project was to transfer full management and control from Indian Oil and Gas Canada to those interested First Nations.

A steering committee composed of representatives from Indian Oil and Gas Canada, the Indian Resource Council, as well as the chiefs of the pilot project First Nations, was struck to oversee the project.

Over the course of the next decade, the White Bear, Blood Tribe and Siksika First Nations moved through a succession of capacity building exercises to gain the skills and knowledge required to assume the full management and responsibility over oil and gas development on their own reserve lands.

There were several stages: first, the joint administrative and management processes; then building capacity through enhanced training; and, more importantly I guess, developing individual communication processes incorporating First Nations' values and beliefs to inform band members, as well as industry and government, to ensure that these activities would be reflective of, and responsive to, each community's needs and values. We should never stray from that premise because it is important to success.

These First Nations from Alberta and Saskatchewan have been partners at ever step in this decade long process. They have worked side by side with departmental officials. It has been quite a team. They have been directly involved in both designing this bill and developing the necessary capacity to implement its progressive provisions. They have identified the problems that need to be addressed and devised the solutions that work for their communities.

It is very important to repeat that the legislation does not oblige any First Nation to opt into any or any part of the bill. Each community can determine by referendum whether to use the legislation. Neither does it in any way create a requirement or preclude other First Nations from bringing forward other options.

Finally, and importantly for many First Nations, the non-derogation clause in the bill makes it very clear that it is not the goal of the legislation to abrogate or derogate from aboriginal or treaty rights protected by the Constitution and that should an infringement to those rights be found to arise from the application of its provisions, the government would have to justify that infringement.

There might be some aspects of the bill that will appeal to some First Nations but not to others. As the bill's name implies, the legislation covers both oil and gas issues, as well as money management. Let me explain the distinction.

At the moment there is no legislation that recognizes the possibility of First Nations assuming control over their Indian moneys which are currently held in trust by the Crown in the consolidated revenue fund as stipulated by the Indian Act. The bill before us today would provide First Nations with a legislative vehicle to exercise full authority over their moneys otherwise held by the Crown.

Even if they are not involved in managing oil and gas development, communities could access the moneys derived from activities on their reserve to support other aspects of self-government and broader opportunities for economic development. With the legislation, the First Nations can choose to take advantage of either the oil and gas elements of the legislation, just the moneys management option, both elements or, if they so choose, they could stay exactly as they are today. It will be up to the individual community to make that determination, not us as a government but each community at the development stage that they currently are or hope to achieve.

The first three First Nations leading this initiative would be able to seize opportunities throughout the oil and gas sector, from initial exploration to exploitation and extraction. Quality employment opportunities, whether directly in the oil patch or in one of the myriad associated businesses, means stronger, healthier communities that offer hope and opportunity to community members.

We all know, any of us who have been involved in this work over the years, that hope is an important aspect. Giving someone the dignity of a job and a possible future that is better than at present is very important and crucial.

I want to point out that none of the provisions contained in the bill can be used by a First Nation government without the consent of its own members. Both on and off reserve members would be able to participate in any referendum held to gain community consent for a First Nation to opt into the legislation, whether in respect of oil and gas, moneys or both.

Let me explain more precisely what Bill C-54 would do and what First Nations that opt in to this legislation may expect.

First, they will be considered legal entities for the purposes of the act and, as such, will be required to maintain accounts, prepare financial statements and have those financial statements audited in accordance with generally accepted accounting principles. These First Nations will also be accountable to their membership to disclose the management and administration of First Nations oil and gas activities and moneys under their care.

The community's members would have options available to ensure this accountability. I want to add for the record that the bill would not affect the application of the Canadian Environmental Assessment Act, the Canadian Environmental Protection Act and the Species at Risk Act.

From my perspective as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development, there is another benefit that may be less tangible but I think it is equally important and we should put it on the table. The First Nations oil and gas and moneys management act represents a fundamental change in the way we interact with First Nation governments.

In the case of this legislation, a strong relationship has been built with the three partners, White Bear, Blood Tribe and Siksika First Nations, over the last 10 years as we have worked in a partnership. We have learned how our activities can complement each other. We have seen that committed partners can achieve meaningful process and progress in advancing their shared quest to build a better future for aboriginal First Nations people.

That is something the Government of Canada is committed to seeing more of in the future. With this legislation our priority is to ensure that, after nearly a decade of hard work and dedication, the White Bear, the Blood Tribe and the Siksika First Nations are able to reap the rewards of their efforts to gain the skills required to create stronger and more prosperous communities. In doing so, they have obviously opened the door for other interested First Nations to come to the table and work with us and their own communities to move forward in a similar manner.

It is now up to us as parliamentarians. I know there have been ongoing discussions with the parties in the House. I think those have been very beneficial and cooperative discussions. We hope to ensure that First Nations governments have the tools they require to better meet the needs and aspirations of their people.

I am counting on and hopeful of the support of my hon. colleagues from all parties in the House. My discussions to date seem quite helpful and hopeful.

Before I end my speech by saying that I want us to help make this possible, I want to thank my colleagues in the House who have contributed to helping us reach this point today. Everyone knows that a minority government is difficult and in a minority Parliament we have had the cooperation on the most of part from all of my colleagues from all of the parties to advance First Nations.

I believe the members of the committee and of the House generally are committed to moving First Nations efforts forward. I personally appreciate that and I know the First Nations will tell members that themselves.

[Civil Marriage Act, June 28th, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, the fabric of Canadian society is very complex. Canada today is different than it was 20 years ago. We can look at a city like Toronto which is now the most multicultural, multifaith city in the world. We are a changing society. Living tree concepts and our laws cannot stagnate in time, but we do have fundamental charter rights that have the foundations of what Canadian values embrace as a society. We are proud, most of us, in this country, and celebrate that we have charter rights and charter freedoms.

That is the Canadian way of balancing different priorities. My priorities or my constituents' priorities can be very different than someone I do not know, but that does not invalidate their priority, it does not denigrate from where they want to be with their faith or their beliefs and actions.

I would not like it if this bill tonight took away from anybody's rights. I do not see this as taking away a right. I see it as extending a right. That is what I believe. I will be very proud of my vote tonight, and I know that some people will disagree, but that is fine because I will live with my conscience and I will do what I think is in the best interests of all of my constituents. I appreciate that the members opposite have the right to vote in the opposite way, but it is going to end with a vote. It is not going to end with another delay.

[Civil Marriage Act, June 28th, 2005]

I apologize, Mr. Speaker. I just want to say that my election was a democratic election, as it was for every member in this Chamber.

Since 1993 I have been very clear on my stance in every vote in the House and in every discussion with my constituents.

Members of a religious delegation opposed to this legislation came to my office. They wanted to demonstrate in the parking lot. I invited them in. I listened for over 30 minutes. We talked and I respectfully told them why I would not vote their way.

I also know that they are my constituents and if there was an infringement on their religious rights that they could come back to me and we would be there to do that.

[Civil Marriage Act, June 28th, 2005]

I will not try to out yell you. I am sorry but I will not fall into your trap. The perspective is that--