Sue Barnes

[Interparliamentary Delegations, April 25th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 34, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, a report from the Canadian branch of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association concerning the 46th parliamentary seminar which took place March 4 to 15, 1997, in Westminster, United Kingdom.

[University Of Western Ontario, April 25th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I wish to congratulate the more than 250 researchers at the University of Western Ontario, including Dr. Bob Sica, a London West resident, who have received research grants through the Natural Sciences and Engineering Research Council. The grants are part of the $260 million research competition of the council, peer reviewed.

Dr. Sica will be using a laser radar system developed at the University of Western Ontario, in co-operation with the mirror telescope system developed in Quebec, to help improve forecasting and measurement of global warming.

The project brings together Canadian ingenuity and serves as an excellent example of the benefits of scientific research. The investments we make today will produce benefits for the future, ensuring a thriving, innovative research community in Canada which all members support.

From the Canada Foundation for Innovation to the support of the work being conducted by Dr. Sica and his peers, the government has demonstrated a continuing commitment to research. I congratulate the federal government for its leadership in this area.

[Committee Of The House, April 23rd, 1997]

Madam Speaker, with 30 seconds to answer I can only say I have no idea what is in the minds of Bloc members. I know what the government does and I can make that choice.

[Committee Of The House, April 23rd, 1997]

Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. member for his question.

It gives me an opportunity to say what a wonderful job he did chairing the public accounts committee during these debates. This is the gentleman, not the government, that controlled the committee. The questioner himself was the person who chaired the public accounts committee during the debate.

I thank him because that is the only committee chaired by the official opposition. I agree with the fact the official opposition chairs the committee.

The questioner is now saying his committee is not good enough and that there should be a public inquiry. He wants us to spend some more money and to forget we have had two public and transparent committees, one in the control of the hon. member asking the question. Again I thank him for the job he did chairing the committee.

I want to answer him directly. He raised by innuendo some speculation that there is perhaps something funny about giving rulings in December or just before Christmas. The hon. member was in the room when the testimony was given at committee. He knows Revenue Canada statistics show that issuing a great number of rulings in December is the norm because it is the year end and the last date for cutoff.

In past years we had floating years for corporations, but most business people in Canada understand that a great many corporations have January 31 as their cutoff for the year. It is changing in some respects, but it was the norm at the time these rulings were issued.

I will deal specifically with the member's question. I will give an example. Nineteen rulings were issued in the last week of December 1991. In 1992, 33 rulings were issued in the same period. In 1993, 42 rulings. In each of 1994 and 1995, 28 rulings were issued in that week.

In actual fact the bulk of of the rulings of Revenue Canada occur in the last quarter of the year. That is not unusual. To get to that point some work has to be done in advance.

The Canadian public needs to know that Revenue Canada is in a service business. We have clients who pay us taxes so we can do the work of good government as the Government of Canada. We require the funds but we also have committed to advance rulings which are not very useful if they are given after the fact.

When somebody comes to us with a problem and says "here is what we need to do by this date so please give us an advanced ruling", we work toward making sure we meet that deadline. That is common sense, that is good government and that is service.

[Committee Of The House, April 23rd, 1997]

But not for Bloc members. They know what is the business before the House today. They get the Order Paper. We are going to spend time debating the motion and so be it. They are technically within the rules and so we will answer.

We acted quickly and thoroughly to ensure that events that occurred under the previous Tory government could not occur again. That is the basis. People in the country want good government. They do not want to hear about problems. They want to know what the solution is. Well, we have a solution.

We in the government are solution and future oriented, not going back into history to find more and more grievances to air just because we can get some coverage.

The official opposition heard the comments of the auditor general. Bloc members heard that he now considers the matter closed. They are now questioning the judgment of the auditor general, even though they went out of their way earlier in the debate and earlier in committee to praise the auditor general for raising the issue. They praise him when he raises the issue but question him when he says that the case is closed. That is the official opposition.

The official opposition said that the auditor general is the watch dog. We concur. The auditor general has the responsibility to oversee all events that take place here. That is why auditor general reports not only come before the public accounts committee but many other committees when he reports on specific activities within the domain of those parliamentary committees.

When we took power in 1993, the auditor general stated at that time there needed to be consistency of rules. We now have consistency of rules. We also agree that there has to be a transparency of process. What could be more transparent than two standing committee of the House holding public meetings with the press, witnesses, experts and people who have an interest in the problems able to be there. We are talking about the taxation policy of the country and the rulings of departments.

As taxation policies evolve, certain rules have been tightened, clarified and more and more consistency has been imposed. We now have a broad publication of rulings. All this was done before the age of everything being computerized and out in the public. Of utmost importance is the privacy of individual taxpayers. That is at the heart of the system of taxation which we know is the best in the world.

Bloc members must understand that 96 per cent of Canadians report their income voluntarily and pay their taxes. We are in tax season now with a deadline of April 30. We have one of the best tax collection systems in the world. We have one of the best departments in the world. It seems the integrity of all the people who work in that department is always being raised as an issue. Integrity is definitely not the issue. After the issue was drawn to our attention, the assistant auditor general, the person who had primary control of this file, testified not only before public accounts committee but he also before the finance committee.

At the finance committee he said: "We have seen no evidence of bad faith and we have seen no evidence of wrongdoing". Before the public accounts committee the auditor general said on May 8, 1996: "I have never had the occasion or the need to ever question the integrity of the senior officials at Revenue Canada".

I go on to the Reform Party. Its members were on these committees. The Reform member for Capilano-Howe Sound said in the House: "In spite of serious efforts on my part, in no case could I discover any evidence of wrongdoing". The Reform Party, in the minority report that was tabled with part of the public accounts committee report, stated: "We are in no way imputing motive and questioning the integrity of the officials involved".

The only ones perpetrating the myth of a scandal is the Bloc opposition. It has no evidence of back up allegations but it persists because it is looking for some issue for the campaign trail. Instead of dealing with the orders of the day we will deal, for partisan purposes, with the Bloc. The government is not afraid to deal with that issue because it is already dealt with. We dealt with it with legislation. We dealt with it in committees and we have tabled reports.

What we have to do here is look at reality. Reality is that there was a taxable Canadian property definition. When people leave this country, what will they be taxed? It is a migrant taxation issue, which is a very technical area of the act. Decisions were made. Both reports stated that the decisions made were concurred in by

experts in the tax community. I will let the people in the finance committee deal with the process.

Somebody is trying to use some nice catch phrases-maybe if we say family trust-we can scare up a few individuals. I used to practice law. Trusts were set up every time somebody died and had a will. That is a form of trust. Thousands and thousands of people have family trusts. They are not rich folk. They are ordinary Canadians. We can use the trigger words that Bloc members hope will catch on, or we can do something about what was a legal problem and clarify it.

I do not know why we are talking about that because it is already done. We have already done our job. We know the system is now tighter. We know that Revenue Canada now publishes the rulings widely because of privacy concerns.

I am not even sure if the Government of Quebec has done that. I am pretty sure that it has not, even though its members talked about it. They should be coming up to where we have the problem. That is another matter. I will let that jurisdiction take care of itself.

The privacy concerns of taxpayers are something that the Bloc opposition at one point in the debate were not even concerned with because they wanted release of taxpayers' names. I can remember sitting in the public accounts committee and asking how Bloc members could do it, how they could go to the heart of the tax system wanting to release to the public names.

It took quite a few meetings before they finally withdrew that Bloc motion, but finally they saw the damage they were doing. Maybe it finally clicked in their heads that it was their constituents too who could have had their taxpayer files open just because somebody told them that this information would be released. We know that is wrong. We know that is absolutely wrong. Not only that, but I cannot imagine it.

I read an article last week about tax cops in Russia who actually rap on people's doors. They do not have the good voluntary compliance within the tax system that we have. That could happen if we just throw out the rules. The Bloc's original motion asked us to release tax names, but the government stood very firmly and said that it would not do that, because it is not a permissible situation, nor is it in the Canadian public's interest.

We have very specific rules. Revenue Canada publishes the rulings for the guidance of tax professionals who need that clarification. This allows for consistency, which was not there when this original problem came up. It is even done when interpretations and decisions are published so those within the department and tax practitioners across Canada can know what the department rules. Revenue Canada takes the special step of releasing that identifiable information. The amendment is necessary so the names cannot get out and so identifying information cannot get into the public domain.

The heart of the matter is that the Bloc members do not want to listen, they do not want to learn. They want scandal. They are not interested in good government. They are not interested in progressive legislation. They are not interested in the sanctity of the taxation system. They are interested in cheap partisan politics. This is not the first attempt but at least the third attempt. There will probably be more because they will compound this in whatever way it can be utilized.

Perhaps the most important thing I could do today to assist us in this matter that has been raised by the Bloc is to move an amendment. I move:

That, the motion moved by the Bloc today be amended by deleting all of the words after the word "be", and by substituting therefor the words "referred back to the said standing committee for reconsideration of the dissenting reports contained therein".

That is exactly what the Bloc members really want. They want an airing of their dissenting reports. We will comply.

I thank the hon. Bloc members for giving me the opportunity to go over this very old ground and to make sure the Canadian public understands there is a difference between people who complain and people who act, between people who stand for good government and a fair, equitable and transparent tax system and the people who just want to use partisan politics to go over an issue that auditor general has on more than one occasion complained. Case closed.

[Committee Of The House, April 23rd, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the members of the Bloc party opposite who called for an adjournment of this House. It gave us time to gather together to once again go over the same facts that we have already gone over in very public debates, not only here when debating a Bloc motion when we covered this ground, but also in a debate in the public accounts committee and a very public debate in the finance committee.

Instead of talking about innuendo and speculation and the Bloc's idea of what they are looking for, which is a problem, let us deal with the facts the committees had to deal with. The fact is Canadians can see through the transparency of the political process. We had not just one process which is normally accorded to an issue, but two processes with two separate House committees both of which have membership from all parties across this floor.

The primary spark of this debate was an issue and two rulings that came up when the Tory regime was in power, long before we were the government.

The auditor general has to be given credit for bringing this to the attention of the House and not the Bloc, which they would like to argue. The auditor general, not the Bloc, is the watchdog. The auditor general deserves the credit for doing his job. That credit was given to the auditor general in the third report of the public accounts committee.

The auditor general reviewed all the documents in the file. He witnessed this Liberal government's quick and decisive response to issues which originated out of a tax problem. Those were dealt with primarily by the expertise of the House finance committee and legislation was brought in to close any so-called loophole that could have existed.

There was another process in the public accounts committee to go over the Revenue Canada side. Recommendations were issued in the report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. The recommendations were acted upon by the revenue department, but not when the report of the Standing Committee on Public Accounts asked under recommendations; in fact the public accounts report congratulated Revenue Canada for having acted immediately on the issue being brought to the attention of the House by the auditor

general. We have a response. We have today an objective that is more political than substantial by the Bloc members of the House.

I quote what the auditor general said at the Standing Committee on Public Accounts. "I take comfort in the fact that the problem we raised was debated openly by parliamentarians and other observers. And at the end of the day, the Minister of Finance chose to amend the act and to clarify certain points which had created problems for us. I therefore consider this matter closed".

Those are not the words of the government. Those are the words of the auditor general: "I therefore consider this matter closed".

[Budget Implementation Act, 1997, April 22nd, 1997]

Madam Speaker, it is with enthusiasm that I begin the debate for third reading on Bill C-93, the omnibus bill implementing the budget for 1997. As we know, this legislation will ensure the implementation of a whole series of measures introduced in the budget tabled in February 1997.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Finance has spoken in support of the legislation on previous occasions prior to second reading and when the legislation was reviewed by the Standing Committee on Finance.

It must of course be remembered that before this bill was introduced for passage in the House, the issues it deals with were broadly discussed in the debate over the last budget.

Since these issues have already been discussed at length, my comments will be brief, and I hope my colleagues will pass this bill shortly.

As I have already said, the 1997 budget not only builds on the government's remarkable progress in putting its fiscal house in order but makes first class strategic investments for the benefit of Canada and Canadians. The bill before us today will allow these investments to be made.

It will invest in immediate employment and growth by enhancing the ability of small businesses to create new jobs. It will invest in long term jobs and growth by improving Canada's infrastructure for innovation. It will invest in a stronger society and improve support for children in low income and lower income families.

As I have said before in the House these issues should not be divided along partisan lines. On the contrary, they should bring us together with an urgent and truly national sense of purpose. I can think of no more worthy a national purpose than our country's children, particularly those children who are not getting everything they need for a proper start in their lives.

Bill C-93 takes an important step in advancing the welfare of these children now that fiscal improvement has given us some scope for renewed social investment. The bill will pave the way for a national child benefit system by launching an enriched child tax benefit. Under the proposed approach the enrichment of this federal benefit will enable the provinces and territories to redirect some of their spending to better services and benefits for low income working families.

The enrichment of the current $5.1 billion child tax benefit to create a new $6 billion Canada child tax benefit will take place in two stages. Effective this July the working income supplement will be enriched by $195 million or $70 million more than that proposed last year. This will directly translate into an increase in the maximum working income supplement from $500 per family regardless of size to $605 for families with one child, $1,010 for those with two children and $1,440 for those with three children. A further $330 will be paid for each additional child.

The second stage will occur in July 1998 when the working income supplement will be combined with an enriched child tax benefit to form the Canada child tax benefit. The maximum benefit for low income families will be $1,625 to the one-child family, $3,050 to two-child families and increasing by $1,425 for each additional child.

Overall more than 1.4 million Canadian families with 2.5 million children will see an increase in federal child benefit payments by July 1998.

The government is committed to doing more for Canada's children as the resources become available. In the meantime, I am confident that no hon. member can object to the increase in benefits for children proposed under Bill C-93. It is fitting that children be a priority of the government, not only because they are the most vulnerable in our society but because they are in a very literal way our nation's future, society's future.

Bill C-93 proposes other investments in Canada's future, including one of the most important initiatives we have seen in recent years for long term growth and jobs in the country. I am referring to the Canada foundation for innovation.

It has become commonplace to acknowledge that education, knowledge and innovation are keys to seizing the economic opportunities of tomorrow, but scientific knowledge and industrial innovation demand a commitment to research. The foundation will provide much needed financial support for research infrastructure at Canadian post-secondary education institutions and research hospitals in the areas of health, the environment, science and engineering.

What is more, the federal government's $800 million investment in the foundation could lead to as much as $2 billion in needed investment in research infrastructure through partnerships with research institutions, the private sector and/or the provinces.

The foundation for innovation has been widely hailed as an important measure to enhance Canada's longer term growth and job prospects, but Bill C-93 also includes initiatives that will help Canadians who want and need jobs. I am referring in particular to the new hires program which will provide employment insurance premium relief to small firms that create new jobs this year and those that create new jobs in 1998.

Under the bill eligible firms, those with less than $60,000 in EI premiums in 1996, will pay virtually no employer premiums for new employees hired this year. They will benefit from a 25 per cent reduction in premiums for new employees in the year to come.

The new hires program, together with the general 1997 EI premium rate reductions, is expected to generate as many as 20,000 new jobs in Canada.

Bill C-93 includes a broad range of proposed measures. Others in the Chamber have spoken about this legislation at earlier readings and I have confined my remarks today to those which carry broad significance for a large number of those of us living and working in this country.

However, the other elements of Bill C-93 are nevertheless important to the stakeholders they affect. They include measures that will discourage tobacco consumption, provide greater self-reliance and autonomy over taxation to First Nation bands and measures to help assure the continued viability of a national airline in a way that is fiscally responsible and, at the same time, competitively equitable.

I have outlined today an important and widely beneficial piece of legislation, good news legislation, whose merits are apparent and whose review by the House have been extensive. I urge all members, all colleagues on all sides of the House, to give support to this worthy bill, C-93.

[Questions On The Order Paper, April 22nd, 1997]

Madam Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand.

[Vistajet, April 18th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberal government's policies for a growing economy are working.

Today Vistajet, headquartered in my riding of London West, announced an expansion of its operations to better service passengers flying between Toronto, Windsor and Ottawa. Vistajet has already hired 55 new people and hopes are soaring that the London based jet airline will create employment for at least 200 more within a year with the addition of new routes.

The company aims to become a national carrier offering value conscious leisure and business travellers the convenience of flying at a rate comparable to driving or taking the train.

It has been the Liberal government's management of the Canadian economy that has enabled companies like Vistajet to expand. During four consecutive budgets, the Minister of Finance has adopted policies that have reduced interest rates to historic lows and fostered a competitive economy, laying the foundation for the private sector to create new jobs for Canadians.

To Vistajet and its new employees-

[Youth Employment, April 17th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, we all know the challenges facing youth today as they make the transition from their education to employment. We now have at the federal level a number of programs, funding for those programs and services available to assist these young people in meeting their challenges.

In London West we co-operatively organized a youth information fair that showcased these programs and services offered and provided young Londoners with valuable work experience.

Held at the Junior Achievement Centre in London West, the fair brought together representative youth with potential partners and organizers of the various programs. Information was provided in areas of entrepreneurship, service and internship, employment opportunities and partnering team activities with a group in the London area called Team London for Youth, a partnership between business, government, non-government service clubs and the boards of education.

Throughout the info fair I was really struck by the level of commitment from those input organizations and their commitment to helping our youth at the community-