Dave Batters

[Cross-Border Drug Sales, November 1st, 2005]

Mr. Chair, I too would like to thank the member for Brampton--Springdale for her comments this evening. I respect her as a health care provider, the information she is able to share with us and the special insight she has regarding this debate.

I would agree with the member completely on the issue of foreign credentials and the need for Canada to have a system in place across the country recognizing foreign credentials. Currently it varies from province to province and it is really quite difficult. In my home province of Saskatchewan there are a number of excellent physicians from South Africa. This is a serious issue. In Saskatchewan we have the longest health care wait lists in the country, so anything that is going to contribute to shorter wait lists is welcome news.

One could debate who had this plan first. This was a pillar of the Conservative Party's plan for health care in the last election campaign. I know this is something that the leader of the official opposition believes in strongly and I am sure it will be a pillar of our policy again.

I was going to spare the member from any partisan comments but then she talked about the Prime Minister who in 1995 was the finance minister. She commended him because health care is a priority. In 1995 when the current Prime Minister was the finance minister, we saw health care cuts of $25 billion, so I would hate to see the cuts to something that was not a priority. That was absolutely frightening.

I would like to ask the member quickly about bulk exports. There is unanimity here tonight that bulk exports need to be stopped in order to protect the Canadian drug supply. Quite simply, given that the member for Yellowhead brought forward a motion that was unanimously passed in this House calling on the government to stop bulk exports, I am wondering if the member opposite could tell the House what luck, if any, she has had in discussing this issue with the health minister or with the trade minister to expedite the matter of banning bulk exports.

It is a very serious issue that Canadians are looking at very closely, to safeguard our drug supply. What success has she had in discussing the matter with the ministers and why has it taken so long--

[Cross-Border Drug Sales, November 1st, 2005]

Mr. Chair, the issue of patents and intellectual property is a very important one to the pharmaceutical industry and to Canadians. Clearly, the issue that is important, and we have covered this tonight, is the access of medications to ensure that Canadians have access to their cholesterol-lowering medications, their blood pressure control medications, and that seniors have access to drugs that lessen the effects of Alzheimer's disease. All this is extremely important.

The member will know that regarding the patent laws and intellectual property laws as they currently exist, it is a bit of a myth to say that the companies are marketing these drugs for 20 years. Currently, the patents are 20 years on these products. Those take effect when the molecule is first discovered and first patented. The member will know that it takes many, many years before that pill is ever available to the public and brought to the shelves of pharmacies. It is often 12 or 13 years, which leaves the pharmaceutical industry X amount of years to recover its investment, and then yes, make a profit. There is no question that these companies are in the business of making money, but more importantly, these companies are in the business of helping people live happier, healthier lives.

When I was with Pfizer, sure we talked about our sales but we talked about far more. We talked about the possibility of being part of a company that could cure cancer, or being in an industry that would find the cure for cancer and diseases like it. I was proud of that work and we need to support that industry. The industry is a big employer in this country. It spends huge resources in terms of research and development for new medications. I personally see the industry as part of the solution in health care and not, as some members do, as part of the problem. That is important to note.

It is also important to note that while I appreciate the member's efforts, there is really another issue that needs to be addressed. If we talk about the affordability of medications, our generic drugs in Canada are more expensive than generic drugs in the United States. It is because of increased competition in the U.S. There is much more competition there than here in Canada. So, I would like to end my remarks by talking about the need to look at generic pharmaceuticals and ensure that Canadians are not being overcharged for those products.

[Cross-Border Drug Sales, November 1st, 2005]

Mr. Chair, I welcome the opportunity to address my esteemed colleague from Charleswood—St. James—Assiniboia on these subjects.

First, regarding the bulk exports, I think we have agreed in this House tonight that there is unanimity. Thank goodness for the leadership of the member for Yellowhead for bringing this issue forward and forcing the government to act. We are still waiting, but hopefully it will act soon.

The member for Yellowhead, I should mention, is also a member of, as are many of members opposite, the Conservative Party's crystal meth task force looking at issues relating to crystal meth that pose a serious health risk to Canadians. I know he has been pushing the government, as I have, to make changes to the laws to help deal with that threat to Canadians.

Regarding the overall health care questions, the member alluded to the fact that the government under the now Prime Minister, who was then finance minister, chopped $25 billion out of the budget in 1995 which was intended for transfer payments to be used in large part for health care. I remember I was watching with interest 10 years ago as that happened and thought, “Can we even comprehend the magnitude of this disaster and what it will mean down the road?” We are seeing it today, in terms of health care wait list times.

The government talks about the need to address wait times for surgeries, diagnostic tests and just to see a general practitioner, but it is unable to do anything. That is really the difference. It talked about a fix for a generation, but it has not actually done anything. We cannot recover overnight from a slash in spending of $25 billion. That takes years to recover from.

Nowhere in this country are the problems in health care more evident than in my home province of Saskatchewan, where we have the longest wait times in the country. While I am critical of the government opposite, our provincial NDP government has made some really poor choices in terms of health care in Saskatchewan. It is about priorities and where we place our priorities in terms of spending. Is it a priority to recruit physicians? Is it a priority to ensure that we have an adequate amount of nurses and pharmacists to serve the population of Saskatchewan? It has not been a priority for the NDP government in Saskatchewan, that is clear.

A friend of mine was an ophthalmologist in Moose Jaw. He loved Moose Jaw, but he left because of the NDP government. He said that it destroyed health care in the province of Saskatchewan, the province that he loved.

There are big issues that need to be addressed regarding the health care file. The government clearly has an awful lot of work to do on this file. It needs to make health care a priority, not just talk about it but back it up with some action, and we could start by banning bulk exports.

[Cross-Border Drug Sales, November 1st, 2005]

Mr. Chair, I am here this evening to participate in the debate because it is an issue of great personal importance to me and to my constituents in Palliser, Saskatchewan. It is an issue of importance to all Canadians.

The issue is ultimately about patient access to medications so that Canadians can live longer, happier and healthier lives. It is about the sufferers of illnesses such as heart disease, Alzheimer's and cancer. It is about providing access to medications. It is for that reason that I am here this evening to participate in the debate. I must confess that given the circumstances with what has gone on today in Parliament in having Justice Gomery confirm that millions of dollars were stolen from the public treasury to benefit the Liberal Party of Canada, I do not think it is a coincidence that this debate is happening this evening. It is bumping CPAC off the airwaves where we would focus on some of the corruption that has gone on under the government.

Nonetheless, I thought it was important enough to come here tonight and participate in the debate because it is an important issue in terms of health care. It is also an issue with which I have a bit of a history. Prior to being elected, I was a pharmaceutical representative for Pfizer Canada. I was very proud of the work that I did travelling the southern half of Saskatchewan with the goal of educating physicians specifically on three different medications in the cardiovascular realm. Physicians have to be experts in 300 or more different medications and I only had to know three. I am proud of the work that I did in that realm. It was a good experience to meet the many good physicians that we have in Saskatchewan, especially those physicians I am thinking about tonight in Moose Jaw, in the riding of Palliser and in southwest Regina.

It was an honour to do that for a living for five years and to talk with physicians about mortality and morbidity data, data about drugs that saved lives. I would drive into communities in southern Saskatchewan and rural Saskatchewan. Whenever one drives into a community it seems that invariably one has to drive past the cemetery before getting to the doctor's office. That just seemed to be the pattern. I would remind myself that it was important work that I was doing. It may seem quirky but I used to say to myself, “Let us try and keep this cemetery a little bit emptier for a little bit longer”. That was how I treated that job. It is how my colleagues at Pfizer treated their jobs, and the seriousness of this issue.

It is very important. We seem to all be in agreement in the House about the need to ban bulk exports. We need to see some action. The member for Yellowhead showed some leadership. He put forward the motion calling on the government to end the practice of bulk exports, asking the Minister of International Trade to protect Canadians proactively from bulk exports. Proactive is the key word. We need to be proactive as opposed to being reactive and waiting to see if there is a crisis, waiting to see if there is a shortage for Canadians. We cannot afford to do that. Canadians need access to these medications and we cannot afford to put that supply at risk.

The Minister of Health said at Harvard on November 10 last year that Canada could not become the drugstore to the United States, a country with 10 times our population. I agree with him but again there has been no action. We have heard members opposite say that we need to study and to consult with the stakeholders. That is the Government of Canada. What we need is leaders. This applies to issues across the board. We really need the political will and some leadership on a topic where members voted 280 to 0 on a motion to ban bulk exports. The will of this House is pretty clear.

The government's approach appears to be reactive and not proactive to ensure that the medicines and vaccines destined for Canadians remain in Canada. The only obvious solution is a ban on the bulk export of pharmaceuticals.

Many people have alluded to a study by Dr. Shepherd, who will soon be in Ottawa. His study indicates that if the pending legislation in the United States passes, our drug supply will dry up in 38 days. That is terrifying. It is certainly terrifying for the people of Palliser and to everyone who is watching this debate tonight. That is shocking information. Clearly, we need some leadership from the government to safeguard Canada's drug supply.

There has been added focus on this issue tonight because of the avian flu issue and the drug Tamiflu which may protect Canadians from the avian flu. This starts the debate as to the need to safeguard Canadian medicines that are intended for Canadian patients.

There is certainly increased pressure in the United States to pass resolutions that call on Washington to legalize the bulk imports of drugs. Legislation to legalize imports from Canada has been introduced in the U.S. and it has bipartisan support. Tonight we have stressed the importance of protecting this drug supply and banning bulk exports.

In June of this year the Minister of Health proposed strengthening existing federal regulations under the Food and Drugs Act. The topic was that we are going to discuss it and we are going to study it. What we really need is action from the government.

The truth is that the government has done nothing to protect the Canadian drug supply. The government has not changed any regulations or brought in any legislation, despite the minister's lofty promises. The government needs to act now to protect Canadian medicines and vaccines that are intended for Canadians.

Earlier tonight during questions and comments I talked about the C.D. Howe Institute which said:

If large-scale drug exports were to occur, most likely drug prices would rise in Canada to U.S. retail levels, which would eat into provincial health care budgets and increase drug costs for most Canadians.

Yet the government has done nothing.

This is a worry for me. It is not only the drug supply but the price of drugs. The member for Charleswood--St. James—Assiniboia who is the health critic for the Conservative Party said that the issues we need to concern ourselves with are price, supply and safety. All of these are critical issues.

The Canadian pharmaceutical industry develops, manufactures and distributes medicines based on its forecasting of the needs of Canadian patients. It does not calculate taking care of our neighbours to the south.

There was a comment this evening from a member who had been a member of the NDP until she was forced to sit as an independent about the fact that drug companies should make more drugs and hire more people.

Pharmaceuticals are not like any other manufactured good. Drugs have an active ingredient that is either derived from a biological source or is chemically engineered in laboratories. Some biological sources are scarce and oftentimes the lab work required to make the active ingredient is extensive. This makes it difficult to meet any unforecasted increases in demand. Plants cannot simply be built overnight. The required safety specifications cannot easily be met.

I will finish on the safety issue. One of the products on which I used to educate physicians in Saskatchewan was a drug called Norvasc, a drug for hypertension and angina. There was a case recently in Hamilton of patients being prescribed Norvasc, but when they picked it up from their pharmacy, it turned out that they were getting nothing more than talcum powder pressed into the shape of Norvasc, this pill that I know so well. I was outraged to hear that. Clearly we need to take steps to ensure the safety of our drug supply.

In summary, this is quite a simple debate. There seems to be agreement on all sides of the House. It is unfortunate that at this hour in this important debate there are no members of the NDP or the Bloc Québécois present to hear this, but it is critical that the government take action to protect our drug supply--

[Cross-Border Drug Sales, November 1st, 2005]

Mr. Chair, some interesting interventions tonight. I appreciate the comments of the member for Churchill. She talked about the democratic deficit opposite. If anyone knows about the democratic deficit, it would be the member for Churchill after what she has gone through, and I sympathize with her.

I would like to address the parliamentary secretary and get his comments on a quote from the C.D. Howe Institute. It says:

If large-scale drug exports were to occur, most likely drug prices would rise in Canada to U.S. retail levels, which would eat into provincial health care budgets and increase drug costs for most Canadians.

That certainly is the threat. That is why I am here tonight. That is the threat to senior citizens in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan and people throughout Canada. This is all about access to medications that help Canadians live longer, happier and healthier lives.

Given that concern, I would like to hear the member's comments on that and I would like to hear why his government has done absolutely nothing. As the member for Churchill has said, there has been a lot of talk and a lot of studies, but nothing has been done to ban bulk exports which everyone is in agreement on.

[Cross-Border Drug Sales, November 1st, 2005]

Mr. Chair, I would like to commend the member for Yellowhead on the motion that he put forward in committee and which passed unanimously in the House 280 to 0, asking that the Minister of International Trade and the government be proactive in protecting Canadians and end the practice of bulk exports.

The member for Glengarry--Prescott--Russell had some passionate views on Internet pharmacies, but he directed his comments toward my colleague from Yellowhead as though he could do something about it, as though he were the minister of health. I urge the experienced member to turn those comments toward his government and the Minister of Health and the Minister of International Trade. I urge him to ask that these things be fixed. He has the passion, but we are not the government yet.

I would like the member for Yellowhead to clarify something that was addressed by the member for Churchill earlier in the debate. She made a comment regarding prescriptions going south to the United States. She said that the pharmaceutical companies could just hire more people and make more pills.

I would like to hear the thoughts of the experienced member of the health committee on that process. My understanding is that this is a very complex process. Plants cannot be built overnight. Complex pills are being made that affect the human body. We are not selling record players or vacuum cleaners. These are medications that alter the human body.

Is it simply that easy, to just hire a few more people and pump out more pills?

[Cross-Border Drug Sales, November 1st, 2005]

Mr. Chair, I hear the member's passion for this issue and I agree with her on many points tonight. The point that we probably disagree on, and I would like to hear her comments on this, is when she talks about the importance of banning bulk exports and the threat that poses to Canadians. She referred to Dr. Shepherd's study that indicated that our drug supply in Canada would be depleted in 38 days if this legislation were to pass. It is a real concern for Canadians.

The Minister of Health spoke last November 10 at Harvard. He commented that Canada would not be the pharmacy for the United States. The bulk export issue is not something that has arisen overnight. Perhaps it has been discussed at length recently with the pending threat of avian flu and the Tamiflu drug question.

I hear the members passion. However, given the importance of this issue, why has it taken so long for the government to do anything about this? It has not introduced any new regulations. It has yet to introduce any new legislation. Patience is a virtue, but this is getting to be a bit ridiculous.

On the one hand she talks about how critical this issue is to Canadians, and I agree with her, but why has the government done absolutely nothing to protect Canadians in Saskatchewan and Montrealers in her province of Quebec? Why has the Minister of Health not done anything to safeguard Canadians to this point? It has been over a year. I would like to hear the member's thoughts, hopefully with the same passion.

[Cross-Border Drug Sales, November 1st, 2005]

Madam Chair, I appreciate the comments from the member for Laval. I appreciate the work she does on the health committee. I hear the passion in her voice when she talks about ensuring the drug supply for Quebeckers and for Canadians.

Certainly, I am very concerned about the issue for my constituents in Palliser, Moose Jaw, Regina, Rollo, Pense, Caronport, et cetera. This is an issue of importance to all Canadians, to ensure the supply of our drugs.

I would like to hear the thoughts of the member for Laval on the progress to date that the government has made to ban bulk exports in this country. That is, indeed, where the threat truly lies.

The threat of bulk exports, to quote a study on May 5, 2004 led by Dr. Marvin Shepherd, director for the centre for pharmacoeconomic studies, College of Pharmacy at the University of Texas, was submitted to the house committee on energy and commerce and the senate permanent select committee on investigations. It outlined his analysis on the implications for drug importations from Canada to the U.S.

Dr. Shepherd said that, based on the number of prescriptions filled, if the proposed legislation in the U.S. were to pass and bulk exports were allowed, the Canadian annual prescription drug supply meant for this country would last only 38 days.

That is a real threat, whether we are talking about heart medication, senior citizens who need medication for Alzheimer's disease or cancer therapies. It is essential that we safeguard the supply for the Canadian public, people in Saskatchewan and Quebec, and people throughout Canada.

I would like to hear the member's comments on the progress that she thinks the government has made and whether or not it has been adequate to protect Canadians from bulk exports. We should not wait until there is a shortage, until our citizens are begging for pharmaceuticals. We should take measures now to ensure that the supply is there.

I would like to hear the member's comments on whether or not the government could be more proactive instead of reactive, and what it has done to date on the bulk export issue.

[Cross-Border Drug Sales, November 1st, 2005]

Madam Chair, the minister talked about the pressing need to ensure access to medications for Canadians, and I could not agree more. It is crucial that we protect the drug supply for Canadians for all different types of ailments.

However about a year ago the minister gave a speech at Harvard in which he said that it was essential that something be done to safeguard the Canadian drug supply and he talked about the importance of banning bulk exports.

It is almost a year later and the government has done absolutely nothing to date to protect our drug supply and to ensure that the drugs will be there for Canadians. The issue recently reached great importance with the avian flu and all the attention with regard to Tamiflu.

My colleague, the member for Yellowhead, put forward a motion that was supported by this House to ban bulk exports. Given the importance that he places on this issue, why has it taken the minister so long to bring forward legislation? I understand the minister will be tabling legislation late in November but after almost a year why has it taken so long to ban bulk exports?

[Housing, October 31st, 2005]

Mr. Speaker, no one voted for the type of surplus we currently have or for the lavish spending we have seen.

The Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation has built a $4 billion surplus on the backs of home buyers. It is clear that CMHC premiums are still much too high. These premiums add thousands of dollars to mortgages. The government claims that this surplus is for social housing.

Why are home buyers, who cannot afford a 25% down payment for their own home, paying for government social programs?