Bill Matthews

[Fisheries, June 11th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans has closed the last remaining Atlantic salmon fishery on the Labrador coast. The closure of this fishery is the result of a serious decline in Atlantic salmon returning to our rivers to spawn.

While our own salmon fishery is shut down, just nine miles off our coast the French islands of St. Pierre et Miquelon are still carrying on a commercial salmon fishery. Yet these French islands have no salmon rivers. They are not contributing to the resource.

Why are our own fishermen forced to welfare while the French fishermen harvest Atlantic salmon? And while he is on his feet—

[Fisheries, June 3rd, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, let me say to the parliamentary secretary that this agreement has worked successfully for three years. It is only now that the minister has arbitrarily broken this negotiated sharing agreement that we have protests in Newfoundland and Labrador.

Will the Prime Minister intercede with the federal Minister of Fisheries and Oceans to restore the sharing arrangement agreement to 82% for Quebec and 18% for Newfoundland and everyone will be happy?

[Fisheries, June 3rd, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, federal government offices in Newfoundland and Labrador from Port au Bras to St. Anthony are shut down today by protesting fishermen and fish plant workers.

In 1995 fishing industry stakeholders in Quebec and Newfoundland negotiated a sharing arrangement for turbot, 82% for Quebec and 18% for Newfoundland.

I have a question for the Prime Minister. Why has the federal government discriminated against Newfoundland and Labrador turbot fishermen by taking fish from them and giving them to Quebec? Why has the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans arbitrarily changed a successful negotiated sharing arrangement?

[Coastal Fisheries Protection Act, April 30th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for his compliments.

I think the hon. member is referring to the FRCC, the Fisheries Resource Conservation Council, but I am not sure. When he talks about management decisions and quotas, I think he must be referring to the FRCC which on an annual basis makes recommendations to the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans.

There was some concern raised in the standing committee, and by people who appeared before the standing committee, which held 15 public meetings and heard from 5,000 to 6,000 people. Concerns were raised about the independence of the FRCC. People thought it was not far enough removed from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

They felt that it should be totally removed from the Department of Fisheries and Oceans, that it should be more independent. There was a feeling that it was being influenced by people in the Department of Fisheries and Oceans.

I do not know if that is what the hon. member is referring to or not. I had difficulty understanding the question.

In the setting of quotas, with harvesting practices and management practices, we have to consult more and more with those involved in the fishing industry. For too many years we went through the process of saying that we were consulting, but we really did not listen. That is why we have this big mess today. We did not consult enough and listen to those directly involved in the industry.

[Coastal Fisheries Protection Act, April 30th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the hon. member's comments and his questions.

Just let me say that before TAGS there was NCARP which was brought in by John Crosbie, the same man who had the unenviable task of imposing a moratorium on northern cod stocks in Atlantic Canada. It was a very difficult decision, but he did what he had to do.

TAGS was not perfect. One of the big problems that we experienced with TAGS was the underestimation by HRDC even after NCARP had expired. There was a couple of years of NCARP and then TAGS was brought in. However HRDC underestimated the number of people who would be eligible for TAGS income benefits by 50%. It then took money out of the early retirement and licence buy out components to put into income support because that was what was needed to put bread and butter on the table for thousands of Atlantic Canadians.

The bungling and mistakes with TAGS goes back to the Department of Human Resources Development Canada. It underestimated, after all of this crisis and those years of involvement with NCARP, the number of people who would be involved.

There are some success stories with TAGS. There are hundreds and hundreds of success stories of people who went on to other professions and to post-secondary institutions to become better educated, better trained, who found new jobs. These are the stories that are not told often enough.

With respect to the Ontario caucus, I am very pleased to hear that it is supporting a new program for Atlantic Canadians. I welcome the support of those members and I thank them.

[Coastal Fisheries Protection Act, April 30th, 1998]

The member can say not true all he likes. I know full well it is true. He can have his chance when he stands in his place in debate. He can stand in his place and give his side of the story and we will see then what he supports for the people of Atlantic Canada.

There have been some concerns raised about Bill C-27, particularly about the procedures of boarding and what happens after our enforcement officers board a vessel. There are those who still think and are saying publicly that we must have approval of the flag state before we board a vessel.

I have been briefed by officials from foreign affairs and DFO and I comfortable and accept that this is not the case. Our enforcement officers can board those vessels if they see fit and when they desire. If they find a violation then quite naturally out of courtesy they have to notify the flag state, the state from which the vessel hails. That is only common courtesy. Then there is a three day period in which the flag state has to respond. The flag state can respond in a number of ways. It can try to contact another patrol vessel in the area, a NAFO patrol vessel, send it to the ship and then the Canadian people will move off and the NAFO vessel will take over. If the flag state does not respond in three days and that lack of response is concurrence with what has happened, then the Canadian authorities can take that vessel to port.

As a member of parliament and a person very concerned with this type of legislation because of all the implications for the people I represent, I feel the legislation is a move in the right direction. It will enable us to better enforce the high seas. It will enable us to better detect violations on the high seas and it will enable us to deal with those situations which for years have gone on undetected in a lot of cases but which when detected nothing has happened to the violators.

I would be remiss if I did not mention the Estai affair which got so much attention in this country just a few years ago. We used force on the high sees and fired a shot across the bow of the Estai and brought the vessel to St. John's, Newfoundland. We found juvenile turbot caught by a liner in a net of the Estai . It was an international incident.

What is ironic is that after all the kerfuffle and the hundreds of thousands of dollars spent in that arrest, using our military vessels and our coast guard vessels, putting the crew of the Estai up in the Hotel Newfoundland, an approximate cost of $100,000, the end result was that the Estai was given back to the Spanish, the fish were given back to the Spanish, including the juvenile turbot, and the half a million dollar court bond that was posted by the Estai was given back to the company.

It cost $100,000 of taxpayer money to wine and dine the Spaniards in the Hotel Newfoundland and the costs that were incurred in the enforcement and the actual arrest of the vessel. We all remember Captain Canada. That was the end result of the Estai affair.

The legislation in my view will certainly improve on those kinds of situations. By merely signing on to the agreement, the people and the countries involved in the agreement are going to concur and subject themselves to boarding and enforcement, even in NAFO regulatory areas where before they would come in and not be subjected to any kind of enforcement. Because they are a part of the agreement, when they fish in NAFO areas they will now be subject to NAFO regulations, a very important step forward.

I want to go back again to the situation we face in Newfoundland and Atlantic Canada today. I plead with the Government of Canada to move quickly in responding to the needs of those thousands of Atlantic Canadians. There is a big economic and social problem in Atlantic Canada and it has been caused by the downturn in our groundfish industry.

The fishery in Atlantic is by no ways dead. The export value of the fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador last year was $550 million, quite significant. What has happened is that people have diversified into other species. What we once called underutilized species are no longer underutilized. There are no fish inside our 200 mile limit today that are underutilized. They are all very valuable, resources we have to value add to and create more employment and more value for our people.

I plead with the Government of Canada to deal with the very serious crisis because it is a crisis, as I have said before, that has been caused by years and years of bad management decisions. Fish given to foreigners is totally a decision of the Government of Canada. The number of vessels that fish any one particular stock of fish is decided by the Government of Canada. The size of the vessels is decided by the Government of Canada. The harvesting technology, whether it is a gill net, a cod trap or a stern trawler, is approved and concurred in by the Government of Canada. The amount of fish that has been allowed to be harvested over all these years on an annual basis has been decided by the Government of Canada.

All of those decisions have been decisions of successive governments of Canada. They have contributed to and caused this very serious problem. This government has to accept its responsibility to Atlantic Canadians.

Fish stocks have not regenerated as quickly as we thought they would. Some of the southern stocks are showing signs of improvement, but northern cod definitely is not. It is the responsibility of the Government of Canada to look out for those people whose lives have been ruined. It is going to take another five or ten years for this situation to improve and for fish stocks to regenerate.

People's lives have been ruined because successive governments have decimated their fish stocks. Those governments were the custodian of the fish stocks. It is the responsibility of the Government of Canada to look after these people until the stocks regenerate and they have a future working in the industry. In most cases it is the only job these people ever had. I plead with the government to do that.

[Coastal Fisheries Protection Act, April 30th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, I commend my colleagues from the Bloc and the NDP for their great speeches. It was nice to see them bring some concern and some passion to the debate. It is obvious they are aware of the fishery problems, the conservation problems and the enforcement problems. They are certainly well versed in the difficulties faced by their constituents in their ridings and in their provinces. Again I commend them both for the speeches they gave this morning.

I am very pleased to speak to Bill C-27, a bill relating to the conservation and management of straddling fish stocks and highly migratory fish stocks. We are talking about cod, flounder, turbot, tuna and swordfish. These fish are very important for the livelihoods of Atlantic Canadians, all Canadians and the entire world. We are talking about a renewable resource, a valuable protein source for the entire world. That is why I am pleased to participate in the debate on this bill.

I will support any piece of legislation, measure or initiative that improves conservation and improves and enhances the protection of our fishery resources. I will support any measure that provides for more effective enforcement. In my view this legislation does all three. I go on record up front as saying that I do support the initiatives of this legislation. I do support the ratification of the United Nations fishery agreement.

I agree with previous speakers that it is with regret we are so late in getting this legislation to the floor of the House of Commons. We should have dealt with it before because Canada has been a leader in this United Nations fisheries agreement. We have led in promoting it and in getting it to this stage.

Other speakers have alluded to the fact that the agreement has 59 signatories. I believe there have been 17 ratifications and a number of other ratifications are ready to be made. We are at the point where we are almost too late because we need 30 ratifications before the agreement can come into effect.

I hope the government moves this legislation forward very quickly so that before we adjourn for the summer we will have dealt with the bill. It is so important for Atlantic Canada, all Canadians and the world.

It is a very important measure and there are very important conservation principles included in this legislation. There will be an exchange of information, an exchange of science and catch data. These are all very important to the conservation of our fish stocks.

We know the great problems we are experiencing in Atlantic Canada. They have been brought to the forefront of the nation in the last 48 hours by demonstrations in Newfoundland and Labrador and by the disruption of government services. That is very unfortunate.

People may say how is this connected, how does this piece of legislation, in any way, relate to what is happening in Newfoundland and Labrador and in Atlantic Canada today. It relates in this way.

The straddling stocks we are talking about, the fish that swim inside and outside our 200 mile economic zone, have been subjected to tremendous harvesting pressure inside and more so outside the 200 mile limit.

Foreigners for years and years have scooped that fish up once it went outside the 200 mile limit on the nose and tail of the Grand Banks, the Flemish cap, what is referred to as the nursery grounds for juvenile fish. They are nursery grounds, great feeding grounds where these fish feed and grow. They swim in and out.

This legislation is very important but it relates to the situation in Newfoundland and Labrador today in that these stocks have been decimated. We cannot point the finger at the foreigners. We have to take some of the blame and some of the responsibility for where we are today with our fish stocks, particularly with our groundfish stocks.

It was very discouraging and disconcerting yesterday in question period to hear the Prime Minister try to blame this crisis on the previous Conservative government, the previous Tory administration.

This problem has been building for at least 30 years, the same number of years the Prime Minister so often boasts about in this House that he has been a member of parliament. It is about the same length of time. The Prime Minister has been in more administrations and in more cabinets and in more government departments, I would say, than any other member of this House, certainly sitting today. Therefore he must take some of this responsibility through the Trudeau years and the Turner years and now through his own administration.

The Mulroney administration and the Clark administration must take some of the responsibility as well because they made management decisions that were not in the best interests of our groundfish stocks and this very renewable resource worth billions of dollars to Atlantic Canada per year.

We brought this very rich, renewable resource into Confederation and we have very little left today. When we brought this resource into Confederation, who became the custodian of the resource? It was the Government of Canada. The government was to look out for, protect, control and manage this resource for the benefit of Atlantic Canadians and indeed for all Canadians. It has not done a very good job.

Successive federal governments have not done a very good job at managing as the custodians of our resources. That is why we find ourselves in the position we are in today.

The Department of Fisheries and Oceans decides the number of vessels that fish off our shores. It determines the size of the vessels that fish off our shores. It determines and approves the harvesting technologies that these vessels use. It determines the fish quotas, the total allowable catches, how much fish is caught and when it is caught. All those are decisions of the Department of Fisheries and Oceans of our national government.

The provincial governments of Atlantic Canada have no jurisdiction or control. The fishermen have no jurisdiction or control. The unions have no jurisdiction or control. The Government of Canada has total control over our fish resources and management of those very valuable resources.

We have been let down big time by bad decision after bad decision. That is why we have the very volatile situation in Atlantic Canada today. People do not know where they are going to turn. Their futures are very uncertain.

Some days the federal government tells them they should move to some other province in Canada to find work. Others suggest they go on welfare. These are proud, hardworking people. It is not a very pleasant thought when you have worked 25 or 30 years in an industry, working 12 months a year, and someone tells you to pack up your bags and move out or go in the welfare line. Unless the government comes up with an acceptable plan and program for those people that is exactly what they are facing.

I have had people call me who are 55, 56 years of age and ask me “What are we going to do? We own our home here. We are not well trained. We are not well educated. All we have done all our lives is work in the fishery. What advice can you give us?” It is a difficult question. Where are they going to find work? If they do find work how much will they be paid? At least they own their homes where they are now and they want to continue to live and work there.

That is the dilemma these thousands of people we have talked about in the last number of weeks find themselves in. This is a crisis that has been caused by mismanagement by the federal government, mismanagement of their resource, the people's resource, a common resource, a very valuable renewable resource that has been totally and grossly mismanaged by the Government of Canada, not by any other government in Canada.

The government has to admit its responsibility. It has been very devastating to those people and that is why we see what is happening in Newfoundland and Labrador today. Those people want an answer. They want a future. More and more of them are willing to accept early retirement. More fishermen are willing to sell their licences and get out of the industry, but that will not take care of all of them.

Thousands have already gone and become better educated and better trained and found employment in other professions. Thousands have left the province of Newfoundland and Labrador. There are communities with no young people left. When you go to these communities all you find are people who are in their mid fifties and sixties, basically retirement people. What are we leaving behind to continue with our rural way of life and the social fabric of those communities?

People do not understand this. It is very disturbing when you come to the House of Commons representing more of those people than any other member, which I do. I have more TAGS clients in the riding of Burin—St. George's than any other riding in this country.

I come here day after day and I try to bring the message to the federal government. I see so few members here who even want to listen or participate in this important debate, particularly those from Ontario, those who are most resisting any help to those people, the 99 or 100 who are so opposed to helping the people of Atlantic Canada, who resist in caucus week after week and heckle MPs from Atlantic Canada who get up and promote the cause of their people. That is what is happening.

[Fisheries, April 29th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, the minister should have known.

The provincial governments in Atlantic Canada do not have responsibility over our groundfish stocks. The fishermen have no groundfish management control. The unions do not have any control. The processors do not have any control.

The minister has all the control. Will he do the honourable thing? Because of his gross mismanagement—

[Fisheries, April 29th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, the minister of HRDC should have been ready. You have known for three years that this problem was coming to a head.

[Fisheries, April 29th, 1998]

Mr. Speaker, thousands of Newfoundlanders and Labradorians are protesting. Government services have been disrupted because the government turned its back on thousands of Atlantic Canadians.

The economic and social devastation in Atlantic Canada has been caused by gross mismanagement of our groundfish stocks by the Government of Canada. The number of fishing vessels, harvesting technologies and fish quotas are all decisions of the government.

When will the government live up to its responsibility and provide continued income support to those thousands of Atlantic Canadians whose lives it has ruined?