Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was mmt.

Last in Parliament November 2005, as Conservative MP for New Westminster—Coquitlam (B.C.)

Lost his last election, in 2011, with 36% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Municipal Grants Act November 25th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, it is a privilege to speak to Bill C-10, as it universally affects most Canadians, for we have become a nation of city dwellers, living within highly organized municipalities. Within these political city or municipal units the federal government and its crown corporations have vast holdings of land and improvements which are not subject to local municipal taxes. Nevertheless, the federal government began making payments in lieu of property taxes in about 1950, following years of persistent representations by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. With 63,000 buildings and parcels of land the Government of Canada is the country's largest municipal property owner. The federal government makes payments in lieu of taxes to some 2,200 local governments.

There is a long history to the rule that a lower order of government does not tax the higher one. Municipalities are the creation of the provinces and certainly within their powers they have not been given the ability to tax federal lands and buildings, such as a local armoury or military base. This bill will amend the Municipal Grants Act, at it is claimed that it will improve the fairness, equity and predictability of payments made under the act from the federal government to municipal governments.

The enactment establishes an advisory panel to advise the minister on disputes concerning payment amounts. It addresses the issues of compensation for untimely payments when the bureaucracy cannot get its job done on time, perhaps if there is an interpretation dispute or when there is a default on tax obligations by tenants of the crown.

Although its property is exempt from taxation under the constitution, the Government of Canada, through this bill, accepts the responsibility to pay a portion of the cost of local government in communities where it owns property.

In 1950, at the pleading of the Canadian municipalities, the government established a program of payments in lieu of taxes. Federal agent crown corporations also make payments in lieu of taxes and the corporations themselves manage the payments.

The point of tension between municipalities and the federal government has been longstanding in this area. The bill attempts to improve the practice of giving money instead of submitting to local taxation.

In one section of the bill the minister is given the authority to pay interest on payments in lieu of taxes if it is in his opinion that a payment in whole or in part has been unreasonably delayed. Through regulatory instruments and amendment to the crown corporations grants regulations, crown corporations may now make supplementary payments for payments that are unreasonably delayed. Is it not nice of them to be so benevolent?

Of course there is no legal requirement to pay or set penalties for not paying on time. Municipalities have such authority for the lowly homeowner, but the federal government would never submit itself to the same standards, especially to pay the full going rates of everyone else. There is no change here. The government is able to set its own property values and pay lower property taxes than might otherwise be levied.

The government also leases some of its property to non-departmental third parties. In the past, municipalities have experienced some difficulty in collecting property taxes from some of these third parties, with payments sometimes never being made. To correct the situation Bill C-10 proposes that if after the last day of the taxation year all or part of the taxes remain unpaid and if in the opinion of the minister the taxing authority has made all reasonable efforts to collect the taxes and there is no likelihood that the authority will ever be able to collect, then the property will be deemed to be an operational federal property and the government will pay the benevolence payments, for that is what they still are. The bill is very clear that there is no power to tax and no rights are created. However, the government says through Bill C-10 that it will be benevolent.

It is good that the bill proposes to include some structures and improvements that used to be excluded from payments, such as crown corporations. Schedules III and IV of the Municipal Grants Act outline the crown corporations that are eligible to pay benevolence payments if they do not pay real property tax or real business occupancy tax. Those contained in Schedule IV are corporations involved in profit oriented activities and may therefore pay both property and business occupancy related assessments.

The joint technical committee on payments in lieu of taxes recommended that the Canada Post Corporation and the Royal Canadian Mint be added to Schedule IV, but surprise, surprise, they do not appear in the bill.

In the private sector disagreements about property values are handled through a formal appeal process and the decisions are binding on both parties, but in the case of the federal government this process is not used.

The value is used to calculate payments or to determine under federal authority the one who pays, and not within the jurisdiction of provincial and territorial tribunals. Would private companies not love to set their own rules for how much they are going to charge themselves for property taxes?

In 1983 to give municipalities a way of redress when they disagreed with the amounts of the payments in lieu of taxes, the minister established a municipal grants review committee, MGRC. This panel provides the minister with advice on the resolution of disputes between taxing authorities and the department concerning the valuation and classification of federal property. The decisions of the MGRC are given in the form of recommendations which the minister is not obliged to accept. This has given the municipalities the impression that the process is, to say the least or charitably, biased against them. It certainly is not a full independent delegated authority like a municipal board of referees for residential assessments.

Bill C-10 simply puts into legislation the status quo that was implemented in 1983, with the minister hand selecting the advisory panel from at least two members from each province and territory. The federal minister also appoints the chairperson from those members. Sadly, the recommendations are non-binding.

In summary the bill has some merit but warrants improvements, particularly regarding payments by crown corporations with the inclusion of the Royal Canadian Mint, Canada Post Corporation and Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation in schedule IV to make them eligible to pay business occupancy payments in lieu of taxes. Additionally the minister and crown agencies maintain too much discretionary power. Reform has said for years “The Reform Party will insist that all laws pertaining to individuals and the private sector apply equally to the Government of Canada, its personnel, its agencies and parliament”.

Bill C-10 still provides for ministerial discretion as to whether or not payments will be made by the government and there is no binding means of recourse in the event of a dispute. This is not the case for the private sector where the payment of property and business occupancy taxes are mandatory and the decision of appeals are binding on both parties. The Government of Canada and its crown agencies still maintain their privilege.

The Liberal government has been verbose on the accomplishments of this bill. I do not need to repeat them. On the disappointment side, the minister and crown agencies maintain too much discretionary power. Recommendations of the dispute advisory panel are non-binding. It merely maintains the old ways of behaviour and entrenches into legislation the common practices that were put in place about 16 years ago. The Royal Canadian Mint, Canada Post Corporation and Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation should be added to schedule IV in order that they may be eligible to pay business occupancy payments in the municipalities where they reside.

I give the final word to the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. More often than not, the Reform Party has a better idea because we listen and strive to be accountable. We have a clear notion of whom we are working for, unlike the Liberals. The federation said about legislation on federal payments that the Bloc, Liberals, NDP and PCs were all on probation on this count as their policies did not make the grade. Municipalities have maintained that the federal government has an obligation to pay its portion of property taxes like everyone else.

The Federation of Canadian Municipalities gives some credit to the Liberals for their efforts to negotiate improvements to the program, but it still places them on probation for failing to make an explicit commitment to respect future provincial taxation principles. However, the Reform Party passes its examination with our commitment to legislated accountability and to subject the federal government to the same general tax laws as everyone else.

With Bill C-10, the Liberals again show that they are slow to change. I hope they will permit sufficient amendments at the committee stage to fully respond to the Canadian public agenda of reforming and renewing the federation.

Petitions November 24th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I am pleased to present a petition today from Burnaby constituents who have been frustrated following the summer surge of boats containing Chinese migrants. The petitioners call upon parliament to enact immediate changes to Canada's immigration laws to allow for the deportation of obvious and blatant abusers of the system.

The petitioners advocate that legislation be enacted requiring refugee claimants to demonstrate that they are fleeing genuine political persecution or face immediate deportation without delay.

Petitions November 17th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, constituents of mine are calling for parliament to amend the federal tax code to ensure equitable treatment for all families and children.

Petitions November 17th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, the second petition is a request for parliament to amend the Immigration Act, the justice system and the constitution so that individuals who have come to Canada as immigrants or refugees can have their temporary Canadian status revoked and be deported should they be convicted of terrorist acts or illegal drug taking.

Petitions November 17th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 36, I am pleased to present three petitions today.

In the first one the petitioners oppose any amendments to the charter of rights and freedoms or any other federal legislation which would provide for the exclusion of reference to the supremacy of God.

Nisga'A Final Agreement Act November 1st, 1999

Mr. Speaker, I rise to speak to Bill C-9, an act to give effect to the Nisga'a final agreement.

First, I want to assure the Nisga'a people, other great native groups and all my constituents that my interest in the bill is to address the need for a better future for the Nisga'a people and all those under the Indian Act, in relationship with each other and other Canadians.

We understand that after years of negotiation within a framework dictated by the Indian Act but controlled by the federal government and Indian affairs, most Nisga'a leaders feel that they have no alternative but this agreement. British Columbians have been wrongly told that it is this deal or nothing.

Official opposition MPs are not similarly tainted. We question and oppose because we do not believe the agreement is, in the long term perspective, in the best interests of the Nisga'a people, the long range interests of aboriginals throughout B.C., or in the interests of the people of Canada.

Canada can do much better than this. It is first the Nisga'a of future generations who will have to live with the practical consequences of the so-called final agreement. All British Columbians are being experimented with by an Ottawa mentality on aboriginal affairs. We should therefore pay particular attention in the House to what B.C. MPs say on the matter. Members of the House should also recognize what all British Columbians already know; that the NDP government in B.C. has manipulated much of the agreement process. It has never had a clear, specific political mandate from British Columbians to deliver such an agreement.

On this day, much is before the courts as the deal drives a wedge between aboriginal groups, between British Columbians and will likely disturb much across the country. Ontario is going to feel the effect of the agreement or arrangement in the future. It can only be hoped that by the time the debate is over Canadians from all parts of Canada will understand that the bill and the agreement to which it gives effect have ramifications for them. It is my estimation that many of those impacts are negative. In respect of bringing the country together, it is negative, from the aspect of the principle of equality and equity for all, where we need to strive to realize better than before, one people, one land, one land.

Sadly, the agreement goes in the other direction. The fiscal impacts will be negative. The resource management impacts will be negative, like those of the Marshall case. The impact on aboriginal and non-aboriginal relations will be negative. This is not simply a bill or an agreement affecting a particular group of aboriginal people in British Columbia. The nature and style of it will copied throughout Canada.

My constituents seem to be telling me that the deal appears to divide people and perpetuate discord and likely will not significantly help local social life, to give a hand up out of subsistence levels. My community has goodwill and deeply desires aboriginal success so that we all together fulfil talent and achieve more cultural respect, autonomy and self-reliance.

I clearly speak for my community when I say that the voters want native peoples to succeed, maintain identity and have all of what the aboriginal forefathers have desired for their people. Sadly, the agreement has the potential to bring more sorrow and disappointment when the grand objectives and overstated government media displays are not realized by aboriginal young people who have had expectations raised. When they are dashed they will seek someone to blame.

There are major defects in the deal. The first is that the current approach grants special legal, social and economic status to people based on membership in a minority group. That is what “Status Indian” means and is defined in law. It arises out of a confusion between “rights” and “benefits” and how best to move forward.

The second defect is that it provides for undemocratic and unaccountable governments. The current approach to aboriginal political development fails to demand or to ensure genuine fiscal and democratic accountability from local aboriginal governments to their own people. Therefore, aboriginal people do not have the most elementary grip on their own governmental institutions.

There is a grassroots movement starting among ordinary aboriginals demanding fiscal and democratic accountability from their leaders and from Indian affairs. In frustration, they come to our party when they are shut out by their local leadership and when their pleas are ignored by the federal government. So far their voice has been largely unheeded. I see no clear reflection of their concerns in the agreement we are being asked to quickly pass this week.

The third big defect in the approach that is perpetuated in the bill is that it is based largely on socialist economics, collective ownership of land and resources, government ownership of land and resources and excessive regulation with little market discipline. There is an absence on reserves of the most basic of property rights and contract rights. There is a near absence of free markets in housing, labour and capital.

Where has all this worn out traditional approach led? Where has special status and socialist economics led? It has not led to prosperity for aboriginal people. It has yielded poverty, misery and despair for too many. It has also led to a series of court cases that are further poisoning relations between aboriginals and non-aboriginals. In addition, the billions of dollars that Canadians commit to Indian affairs every year is now leading to an additional contingent liability to all Canadians of up to a possible $200 billion.

Now specifically when one reads the terms of the agreement, too many times there appears words to the effect that details will be worked out in the future without guarantees of democratic process or accountability to an electorate. Specifically, the Nisga'a alone will be able to determine who is on their list of being considered a Nisga'a person and who is not. They will make their own laws about who can legally be a Nisga'a. Canada has very limited power about who is or is not a Canadian, and certainly the provinces and municipalities do not control entry and entitlement to vote or to receive benefits through control of citizenship membership status. The specific term “Nisga'a citizenship” is used in the agreement, and they will be able to banish or de-list or refuse to admit anyone they desire according to the rules they have yet to pass within their government.

If there is a conflict in this area between federal and provincial law, it clearly states on page 167, sections 39 and 40 that Nisga'a law is paramount. This is a sweeping powerful tool for any government to control dissidents or political opposition from entitlements and participation. It is a concern when the use of banishment and other disenfranchised tools is well known in current aboriginal practice in Canada.

This is just one example of the well-meaning but fatally flawed construction of this misguided agreement. I do not believe in special legal status for anyone, and most British Columbians never have. It is our view to Quebec or any group. This is a formula for social disaster. It is different from targeted social benefits that can help.

The world is changing rapidly and if Canadians are to be able to continue to provide food and shelter for themselves in the global village, they will have to adapt to changing ways to participate in the world economy. The key is full participation in the world, not isolation from it. However, in order to participate and thereby benefit, one needs to purchase an admittance ticket. Stamped on that ticket of admittance to obtain sustenance in the new economy are the words “skills” and “education”. That ticket must be purchased through individual effort and merit.

The agreement does little to anticipate the future of the world and how all of us need to be ready to participate and earn the basic necessities of life. We all must “earn” our way by creating wealth that comes from being in a market. Indeed, most of the employment on Nisga'a lands will either be with the Nisga'a government or with the Nisga'a government owned corporations. The isolated socialist collective of Nisga'a will likely remain dependent if their members do not move to participate in the global economy.

I do not think the specific terms will help average individuals within the territory of the agreement. It is hard to see how lasting goodwill will come when so many basic principles of democracy, economics and accountability have been violated. However, form often follows function and when wrong ideas and false assumptions narrow the range of choices, the shape of destiny will always be sadly lacking, if not bringing deep sorrow.

The mandate to negotiate and the manner in which it was done by B.C. politicians is discredited. The arrangement will not bring about lasting reconciliation. It certainly is not final in the ordinary sense of paying.

Much is to be worked out in the future and it is written in vague terms. Fairness is very elusive in the package. Its emphasis is to separate rather than bring together. Legal equality principles have been abandoned. In such experiments we must support equality, democracy, accountability, the coupling of entitlement with responsibility, tolerance of diversity and mobility rights so they are intertwined in settlements with Canadian natives. It is of grave importance when we assess the proposal for embedding by treaty small closed societies in a large, complex and open society that itself is struggling to keep its place in a changing world.

Although my speaking time has run out, Canadians will be dealing with this agreement for generations to come and the social disturbance and shattered dreams will likely perpetuate for a long time.

Taxation October 25th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, the government has made the ridiculous claim that it cares about people but its high tax policies hurt people.

The government chooses to take $6 billion in income taxes from low income people earning less $20,000 a year. Where is the proper fiscal management in that? Where is the wisdom for the economy? Where is the compassion for people? Where is that in a high tax policy?

Taxation October 25th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, the government is doing a lousy job in reducing taxes, according to an internal poll of Canadians from the finance minister's own department. The poll came out after the government's alleged tax relief program came into effect.

Why is there no plan for real tax relief when Canadians are saying that the government has done a lousy job in reducing their taxes?

Personal Information Protection And Electronic Documents Act October 22nd, 1999

Madam Speaker, Bill C-6, which is the old Bill C-54 from the last session of parliament, is a bill largely about the future. The government is trying to catch up with technology to regulate for reasonable order and safety, much like governments did as they tried to keep up with the emergence of the motor car, airplane, travel, telephones, radio broadcasting, television and now a universe of information transfer and monitoring never imagined by the writers of our constitution passed in 1867.

Form continues to follow function and I am sure that the present bill will be subject to much amendment in future years as society attempts to respond to issues of sovereignty, rights, protection and general order. Maybe it could be said that Alvin Toffler was right that social change accelerates and we all struggle to deal with future shock, even governments.

The future is now, and the bill is written to support and promote electronic commerce by protecting personal information that is collected. used or disclosed in certain circumstances by providing for the use of electronic means to communicate a record of information or transactions and by amending the Canada Evidence Act, the Statutory Instruments Act and the Statute Revision Act.

Part 1 of the bill establishes a right to the protection of personal information used in commercial activities in connection with the operation of a federal work, undertaking, or business or interprovincially or internationally. It establishes principles to govern the collection, the use and disclosure of personal information. It deals with accountability, identifying the purposes for the collection of personal information, obtaining consent, limiting collection, limiting use, disclosure and retention, ensuring accuracy, providing adequate security, making information management policies readily available, providing individuals with access to information about themselves and giving individuals a right to challenge an organization's compliance with these principles.

It further provides for the privacy commissioner to receive complaints concerning contraventions of the principles, conduct investigations and attempt to resolve such complaints. Unresolved disputes relating to certain matters can also be taken to the federal court for resolution.

Part 2 sets out a scheme by which requirements in federal statutes and regulations that assume the use of paper do not necessarily expressly permit the use of electronic technology, may be administered or complied with in the electronic environment. The bill grants authority to make regulations about how these requirements may be satisfied by using electronic means. Part 2 also describes the characteristics of secure electronic signatures and grants authority to make regulations prescribing technologies for the purpose of the definition of “secure electronic signature”.

Part 3 amends the Canada Evidence Act to ease the admissibility of electronic documents, to establish evidentiary presumptions related to secure electronic signatures and to provide for the recognition as evidence of notices, acts or other documents published electronically by the Queen's Printer.

Part 4 amends the Statutory Instruments Act to authorize the publication of the Canada Gazette by electronic means, which will certainly be thanked by many.

Part 5 amends the Statute Revision Act to authorize the publication and distribution of an electronic version of the consolidated statutes and regulations of Canada. This is a democratizing barrier removal for all citizens.

We have been at the Canadian democratic experiment at least since 1867, 132 years or more, with our evolution to responsible and accountable government from dependent colonialism.

I am here in parliament as a Reformer in part because it is too evident that we still have a lot of work to do on that score to take up the job of expanding the boundary of democracy, of implementing needed change. Sadly it is a quest that the old reformers forsook, those who became the true Grits, for the Liberals who have long forgotten about being the repressed underdog in governance, for they are now so smugly superior, secretly plotting to avoid real public political accountability. In view of what happened, it could be reasoned that the Reform Party are the liberals of the 21st century, for we are now the agents of change, struggling against an entrenched establishment party that is reluctant to let go of privilege and power.

It is an ideological gap that I am talking about. With Bill C-6 they are playing catch-up. As in commerce, Canada has a long way to catch up politically, even reforming this very parliament.

Canada started with a constitution that was rooted in certain basic principles and was written by some incredibly brilliant people who understood that times would change, the definitions of fundamental things of governance would change and that circumstances would require people to rise to the challenges of each new era by applying old values in practical ways.

It is recognized that as Canada changed from being an agricultural to an industrial society that the laws made under simpler conditions of living could not handle the complex relations of the modern industrial world, and now even the cyber age.

While the bill attempts to deal with some technological matters that have gone way ahead of governance, Reformers also work for the day when we can bring this creaky institution of parliament into the cyber age of political accountability, using technology to more fully obtain political consent from an informed electorate who watches, engages and decides, often through electronic means.

It is present day Reformers that seek to move the boundaries between old and new. We might even get TV cameras in the Senate some day and have more committees televised. Parliament needs to get fully plugged in, turned on and really connected to the people it is supposed to serve.

Reformers of old, it must be remembered, fought hard to adapt our institutions to new realities, to update vital protections for our citizens, to expand the developing notions of the right to privacy which has become most valued by our present culture.

We are in the midst of another vast social transformation. Once again the law needs to govern fluid markets, documentation and legal exchange. They are so dynamic they could not have been imagined in the British North America Act of 1867 when it enumerated responsibilities. But the pace of change is very different, not just the nature of change but the very pace of it. Once again we have to respond, applying our oldest values and practical ways that allow them to be preserved and enhanced in modern times.

We all know that technology and competition have revolutionized the financial services industry. I think most of us believe that by and large these changes have been very good. But many people do not have the knowledge to properly evaluate what is truly a dizzying array of options. Some are falling victim to new abusive practices. Others are being left out of the financial marketplace altogether. That is why we have to deal with these things in parliament, to give all Canadians both the tools and the confidence they need to fully participate in the thriving but highly complex 21st century economy that will often be focused in the world of electronic commerce.

The term electronic commerce refers generally to commercial transactions, involving both organizations and individuals, that are based upon the processing and transmission of digitized data, including text, sound and visual images, and that are carried out over open networks. Although much media attention is focused on online merchants selling books, wine and computers, the vast majority of products marketed electronically business to consumer are intangibles such as travel and ticketing services, software entertainment such as online games, music and gambling, as well as banking, insurance and brokerage services, information services, legal services, real estate services and increasingly health care, education and government services.

In view of these realities there are some principles that must be regarded. The first thing we have to do is to protect every Canadian's financial privacy. There has been analysis to identify where privacy is at risk and finance certainly was the first obvious area of great concern.

The technological revolution now makes it easier than ever before for people to dig into and collect our private financial data for their own profit. Some private financial information is protected under existing federal law. One's banker, broker or insurance company could still share with affiliated firms information of what one buys with cheques and credit cards or sell this information to the highest bidder.

We need better laws to give Canadians the right to control their financial information, to let the consumer decide whether they want to share private information with anyone else. They need to know where it goes and why.

To enhance financial privacy we must also protect the sanctity of medical records. With a growing number of mergers between companies, financial institutions and lenders potentially can gain access to the private medical information contained in insurance forms or from government subcontractors. We need to severely restrict the sharing of medical information. People should not have to worry that the results of their latest medical physical exam will be used to deny them a home mortgage or a credit card. The possibilities must be carefully anticipated for protection.

It should be understood that our basic privacy is at stake. As electronic commerce develops, the volume and the nature of personal data such as name, address, interests and records of all purchases can be disclosed on networks during electronic activities and these transactions certainly will increase.

New methods for processing the vast accumulation of data such as data mining allow the creation of customer profiles that combine demographic data, credit information, usage patterns and minute details of transactions. If consumers do not have control over the collection and use of their personal data, electronic commerce must facilitate the invasion of their privacy. But if consumers are in a position to either decline or to give informed consent to the collection and use of their personal data, electronic commerce will not be too much different from traditional commerce.

In today's world, consumers may participate in what we call fidelity or loyal shopping plans, or choose to exchange their privacy for something they value such as lower prices, convenience or personalization. Businesses and consumers will have to help adjudicate the tradeoff between protecting privacy and obtaining the benefits of electronic commerce that both value. Education on this issue is therefore of primary importance.

The question has come up about illegal and harmful content. There has been much public concern about the content of some of the information distributed and accessed on the Internet. Disagreeable or detrimental content is not more prevalent on the Internet than beneficial content, but the people who distribute and access disagreeable or detrimental material on the Internet enjoy the same advantages offered by the Internet as others do. The positive elements are vast in terms of opportunities for electronic commerce, community development, communication and access to information.

The reality is that with those benefits come the difficulties of coping with content judged to be detrimental. The development of electronic commerce could potentially be impeded by illegal and harmful content issues where users fear unwanted content and where network service providers fear the liability they will take on if they are expected to be responsible for the content that flows across their systems. Although traditional methods for addressing these issues may not be as feasible in the electronic environment, advances in technology are offering new ways to resolve some of these issues.

We must require greater public disclosure and enhance every consumer's right to know. Consumers received millions of credit card solicitations last year. Some offers contained new traps for the unwary. For example, sometimes credit card companies advertise low interest rates known as teaser rates to reel in consumers who are then surprised with unexpected interest rate hikes.

Millions of consumers have also found out the hard way that making only minimum payments rarely helps retire debt and almost always results in very large interest payments. We should require clear notice of how long and how costly repayments would be if the consumer makes only the minimum payment.

We have to do more to combat consumer fraud. It is remarkably easy now for a thief to take out huge loans in someone else's name, run up enormous credit card debts and tap into bank accounts. We have now heard at least twice this year in the Commons that the RCMP do not have the basic resources to attack consumer commercial fraud. Consequently capacity creates its own demand and it will only flourish if the government is not minding the people's business.

We need to give priority to cases involving identity theft, particularly those involving organized crime groups with the goal of increasing the number of prosecutions. It must be made harder to steal someone else's identity in the first place. Telephone long distance fraud is also rampant and the millions lost is reflected on my telephone bill.

We also need to crack down on fraud committed over the Internet. If we want to seize the Internet's full potential, we have to stay ahead of those who would use this open medium to manipulate stock prices, commit fraud on online auctions or perpetuate any other type of financial scam. We need a national co-ordinated approach for tracking Internet fraud and to train those in provincial and federal law enforcement how to recognize and root out these schemes.

It could be said that the law enforcement community compared to people who are doing criminal activity are like unaware parents trying to keep up with their children who go on the computer. It is an endless effort. We need to organize and systematize a continuous retraining effort and have a federal government with a vision to commit the resources needed so that we can stay ahead of the crime curve.

Investors need better information to protect themselves against online securities fraud. Complaints of Internet fraud are greatly increasing, for every new medium of exchange brings a new opportunity for criminal exploitation. Are the Liberals on top of it? I doubt it, for they have shown time and again that they are not really wise managers of the public trust.

We must provide services for those who have been denied access to the wired world and ensure opportunities for all. Technology can bring, for example, credit and banking services to the disenfranchised. We need to continue to expand the bounds of service for the aged and the challenged with low fee bank accounts and services in ways that maximize the possibility of technology yet preserve safety and accountability.

Electronic commerce dramatically reduces the economic distance between producers and consumers. Consumers can make their purchases directly without involving traditional retailers, wholesalers and in some cases distributors. They benefit from improved information, lower transaction costs and thus lower prices, and larger choices which can include products tailored to individual requirements and instant delivery for intangible services and products in digital form.

For sellers, electronic commerce also presents many advantages. Small scale manufacturers can gain access to a global marketplace with relative ease. Specialist resellers enjoy the same advantage. Neither need maintain a physical store or shop and inventory can be managed more efficiently.

Labour cost savings can be considerable. For instance, one estimate places the cost of buying software on the Internet at 20 cents to 50 cents per transaction as opposed to $5 for a telephone order and $15 our a traditional retailer. But just as electronic commerce offers new market opportunities, it will also intensify competition. It will probably make some provisions of provincial labour codes obsolete.

Government must strive to provide the opportunity for everyone to have access to electronic commerce. The key difference in having rights and benefiting from them is the degree of participation and full exchange. Anyone with access to the Internet has access to electronic commerce. Online commerce requires hardware such as computers and servers, software, and the ability to connect to the network itself which may involve access to telephone, cable TV, cellular mobile networks, satellites or broadcasting networks. Equipment costs, access charges and the complexity of the evolving Internet itself are barriers to universal Internet access. At present, regulatory structures in many countries still limit market access by infrastructure providers. This is changing with the liberalization of telecommunications.

Estimates of the number of Internet users vary between 30 million and 50 million. It is a rapidly growing population. Just three or four years ago the number of users was only in the thousands.

The number of commercial transactions made over the Internet is also rapidly growing. Nearly all analysts predict growth by factors of 10 or more and that electronic commerce will overtake the size of mail catalogue sales in the United States alone.

The networks are being built but they will likely never be comprehensive or fast enough for changing demands. Sadly, the law, protections and regulatory climate will always be behind, especially if the Liberals stay in power in Canada.

Internet communications are generally established through telephone systems which were built to carry voice, not data. These systems need to evolve. At present most customers connect to communications networks via a standard telephone line. Local telephone tariffs currently account for more than 60% of the cost of Internet access. The expansion of electronic commerce depends on speeding up data transmission while keeping the costs very low.

Increasing competition in the communications market is the best way to encourage network upgrading. One key to increasing competition is to put in place regulatory structures that encourage the creation of networks providing and supporting all types of applications, including entertainment, voice telephony and electronic commerce. However, it seems that we will always have one hand tied behind our backs in this country, because we have a Canadian policy for Luddites who vainly resist in the name of Canadian content which seems premised upon a cultural inferiority complex.

Our law must properly follow the opportunities of technology for jobs, growth and trade. By raising economic efficiency, electronic commerce will increase overall wealth. In doing so, it will impose adjustments on existing economic structures, for electronic commerce may well result in the loss of employment in traditional distribution and retailing. However, experience demonstrates that technological change will create new and better replacement jobs.

Electronic commerce is already creating new high quality computing and communications jobs linked to the development of global digital markets. Of course the NDP will rail against it and claim it needs an even more iron fisted union to stop the sun from rising, the light of new knowledge coming in, or it will want a world ruler of the Tobin tax to mitigate against what it cannot comprehend. Outdated political ideologies hurt people, stunt potential, breed poverty and perpetuate oppression and servitude. That is what the NDP ideology must be understood to bring, in light of discussing the implications of Bill C-6 and the future.

From the perspective of the firm, the cost of doing business on new electronic networks is significantly lower than the cost of traditional methods. This advantage plus the ability to offer high value, content rich products and services has led to exponential growth in the number of firms entering electronic commerce and related businesses. This is most evident in the urban North American centres but is becoming evident in other countries as well.

By bringing buyers and sellers closer together, electronic commerce will facilitate trade growth. Canadian wealth is based on international trade, but there is no help from the NDP anti-traders belief system.

What we are talking about also has consequences for taxation and tariffs. Jurisdictional rules applying to taxes and tariffs are generally based on concepts of physical geography, such as place of supply or residence of a taxpayer. As electronic commerce is not bound by physical geography, it may become difficult for taxpayers and governments to determine jurisdiction and revenue rights. For consumption taxes, there may be a need for action to avoid double or non-taxation.

The availability, reliability and completeness of commercial records generated in an electronic commercial environment, including those from electronic payment systems, are also of concern. Such records must be relied upon to ensure that taxation and tariffs have been appropriately and fairly applied.

Many forms of taxation and tariffs are levelled on physical goods. The ability in electronic commerce to create electronic substitutes like electronic books presents challenges for revenue collection and the archaic quota regimes overseen by our heritage minister.

The existence of electronic products also raises issues of fairness between taxes and tariffs imposed on physical goods and electronic substitutes. The ability within the electronic distribution channels to bypass any or all of these traditional middlemen between producer and consumer raises serious issues for the collection of taxes, particularly withholding taxes.

The use of electronic commerce technologies in the form of intranets by multinationals and collaborative groups may tend to increase the prevalence of transfer pricing and increase the difficulty of detecting such behaviour.

The predicted growth of international electronic commerce, much of which may be undertaken by smaller less sophisticated businesses, may mean the number of unintentional breaches of international revenue laws could increase.

Given the global nature of electronic commerce, it is important that the decisions taken by government continue to allow for the international flow of data. Moreover, technological tools will offer new ways to allow users to protect themselves. Some of them are mechanisms for verifying information such as labelling systems which certify that an online business meets certain good standards of business. Other mechanisms exist for notifying consumers of legal jurisdiction or venue for resolving disputes arising from a transaction. Some others allow consumers to access educational messages that describe their rights in the context of electronic transactions.

Canada certainly needs to work with the international community to provide a forum for continuing exchange of views on developing technologies and an institutional framework to support them. We also have to increase the financial and electronic literacy of the Canadian people. It is not enough to know how to balance a chequebook any more. Even those fortunate to have the help of accountants sometimes have a hard time understanding all the ins and outs of investing in an RSP, paying off credit card debt or refinancing a mortgage.

Knowledge is power and as Canadians understand technology they will use it in ways that make it accountable to them, as it enhances their quality of life. Laws and regulations must go hand in hand with an informed public if technology is to serve us rather than us serving it.

As reported in the Ottawa Citizen today, Ontario residents may soon have a single computerized card that will do everything from providing access to health care to serving as a driver's licence under a new project unveiled by the province. The smart card concept announced in the provincial government's throne speech yesterday, it is hoped, will mean more convenience for the public and less fraud. The term usually refers to a credit card with a tiny computer chip that contains lots of information about the cardholder that can replace the need for many cards. The one card will include a driver's licence, access to services such as medicare, social assistance and senior benefits.

The future is here. How far off will it be that a ton of information that can be put on one small card will simply be put on a microscopic chip under the skin on one's hand? By then the universal numbers will be assigned at birth, which can be the international drawing rights credit card, citizenship and right to vote registration for the world, and contain personal international telephone and computer access numbers. The technology seems to be coming, but are the law and society ready for these realities?

That is what we are trying to do with Bill C-6. It is an attempt to improve privacy, enhance disclosure, combat fraud, increase access and bring the transactional world of commerce and law under some semblance of control.

Members of the official opposition engaged fully in the process of the bill. We offered a number of constructive improvements which the government was rather arrogant about accepting, as old style governments usually are. Nevertheless Reformers support the bill since it is as good as we can get it at this time.

Reform recognizes the fine line between the right of Canadians to have freedom of speech and the right of privacy. The need for that balance has become acute as Canadians embrace new technologies. Therefore we support the regulation that Bill C-6 introduces.

As the world changes and the proposed act needs adjustment in the future, I hope it will not take as long to do as the years it took the hapless Conservative and the bumbling Liberal governments to update the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act. Nevertheless the government had at least one good minister to finally get it done, the Minister of Industry.

In conclusion, the objectives of the bill are broadly similar to the ones used to harness the opportunities and benefits of the industrial revolution. They are just as vital today, if not more so, as they were a century ago. It is now time to use them to seize the enormous potential of the information revolution for every Canadian citizen.

If we work together we can help all families have the benefits of new choices and new technologies. We can help our people thrive in the 21st century. All we have to do is to remember how we got here over the last 132 years.

Child Pornography October 18th, 1999

Mr. Speaker, how can Canadians trust the Liberals when they say they will protect children and then avoid positive action on the possession of child pornography?

The recent throne speech said that the government would work with Canadians to ensure that our communities continue to be safe. Its focus will be balanced, combining prevention and a community centred approach with action to deal with serious crime.

Child pornography is a serious crime and in response on Friday 300,000 Canadians voiced their community-centred approach through a petition against child pornography insisting the government defend the law.

In response, the justice minister accuses Reform members of being scaremongers. Obviously the minister does not feel obligated to the community will, and also has no ability to get cabinet approval for action.

Children are the most vulnerable members of society and they deserve the fullest protection of the law. Liberal sentiments delivered in regal fashion do not close legal loopholes or defend families. The poor Liberal justice system will only be improved when the system defenders are replaced by the system changers in the opposition.