Madam Speaker, it is good to hear the minister make some rare comments on justice matters.
It is rumoured he is one of those in cabinet who stands in the way of more actively tightening the Criminal Code. I am pleased now to hear he supports some Criminal Code activism. Even when the outcome is not entirely certain, we can be bold in these kinds of matters. That is to be encouraged.
Related to the content of the bill before the House, the justice minister knows my private members' bill has been introduced. I
think he would agree that by strengthening the punishment in section 213 of the code we would strengthen the attack on the sex trade.
The minister is hesitant on the proposal. I suggest he talk to his colleague in cabinet, the Minister for International Trade. In 1989 when the minister was the mayor of Toronto he appeared before the Standing Committee on Justice.
For argument's sake it would be beneficial to he read the former mayor's comments on section 213: "I support these changes as well as other recommendations our police are putting forward to help us once again regain control of our streets, namely that this offence be changed from a summary offence to a hybrid offence, requiring that those arrested be fingerprinted and photographed, which is important in dealing with runaways who can change their identities and their names and with others who are trying to avoid prosecution, and that it remain in addition to that within the absolute jurisdiction of a provincial court judge".
Certainly there is consensus with the provincial attorneys general that section 213 should become a hybrid offence. If the minister is willing, I would be more than happy to withdraw my bill on the condition that such an amendment would be added to Bill C-27 at committee stage, as it directly relates to the content of the bill.
The minister and other members of the House should understand Reformers are not here to continuously oppose government legislation. Rather, we are here to offer constructive criticism and valid suggestions.
I hope the minister gives my offer some serious consideration not only for my benefit or for his but for the benefit of Canadian communities like mine, New Westminster-Burnaby, and his, Etobicoke Centre. In other words, create the right legal climate and we will see positive change emerge for safer communities.
In 1991-92 the Canadian Centre for Justice Statistics completed studies in Ontario and Alberta revealing what type of sentences were handed down to those communicating for the purposes of prostitution.
In Ontario it was found that 44 per cent of charges against women, mainly prostitution charges, resulted in prison terms followed by probation at 26 per cent, fines at 22 per cent and absolute discharges at 8 per cent. Of the sentences imposed, the medium prison term was only 10 days. Of those who received fines, the medium fine amounted to a mere $150.
Alternatively in Alberta, fines were the most frequent dispositions for communicating convictions among women, who were mainly prostitutes. Sixty-six per cent of charges against women resulted in fines, followed by prison terms at 19 per cent, probation at 15 per cent and absolute discharges at 2 per cent. Of those who were imprisoned, the median prison term was just 30 days. Of those who received fines, the median fine amounted to about $200.
Any way we look at these statistics, it tells us that the penalties associated with prostitution are too weak. The sex trade flourishes. The Criminal Code needs to be strengthened. Reformers have been telling the minister this for years. It is good to see he has finally listened and is at least willing to deal with the subject in law rather than just endless study after study.
I commend the minister for the changes he made to section 212(4). The section now reads: "Every person who, in any place, obtains or attempts to obtain for consideration the sexual services of a person who is under the age of 18 years or who that person believes is under the age of 18 years is guilty of an indictable offence and liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years".
There is a real problem with prostitutes under the age of 18 years. The widely known Badgley committee report on sexual offences against children and youth done in 1984 discovered that approximately one-half of prostitutes interviewed entered the prostitution trade when they were under the age of 16. Further, almost 96 per cent of those interviewed said that they had become prostitutes before the age of 18.
It is the ease of entry into the trade via the street that facilitates the young to become involved. When prostitutes are asked to describe street life, all they give are negative assessments. In fact I would guarantee that if most had their lives to live over again, every one of them would not choose the sex trade lifestyle.
J. Lowman from the School of Criminology at Simon Fraser University found that most prostitutes would advise a young person not to get involved in the life. Lowman found that for many street prostitutes it is the fact that prostitution provides money at all that is the necessary condition of both their turning out and their remaining in the business. If this were not the case it is difficult to see why so many prostitutes stay in the business when they offer such thoroughly negative appraisals of it. It is a trap that is a wide open entry to life on the street. It is a downward spiral where alternatives to change become very hard to find.
A local reporter in my riding did a story on prostitution a couple of years ago. While researching it he approached a prostitute and the response was: "I am under age. Don't take my picture. Put my picture in your paper and my parents will sue you". I thought that was rather interesting. Here she was performing an illegal act and she was talking about suing the reporter for wanting to take her picture for a story. I guess she knew the justice system better at 17 years of age than most people will ever begin to know it in their lifetime.
The same can be said about the Young Offenders Act. The 11-year old who repeatedly steals cars knows full well the police cannot touch him until he is 12. Like the prostitutes on the street, the young offenders know exactly what they can get away with. Capacity creates its own demand.
I want to touch on another subject in Bill C-27 and perhaps add some comments on the issue of the sex trade overseas. Clause 1 of the bill adds a new section to the Criminal Code dealing with those who obtain sexual services from minors outside of Canada. This is an abhorrent practice which must be outlawed not only in Canada but throughout the rest of the world. There are countries in the world whose laws are much more liberal or lenient than those here in Canada. It is in these countries that law breakers are finding their profits.
The preamble to this bill states: "Whereas, by ratifying the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, Canada has undertaken to protect children from all forms of sexual exploitation and sexual abuse, and to take measures to prevent the exploitative use of children in prostitution or other unlawful sexual practices".
In Thailand with a population of 56 million, 2.8 million are said to be prostitutes. Incredible. Of those 2.8 million, over 800,000 are said to be under 16 years of age. A July 1994 report for the Good Shepherd Sisters, a Thailand drop-in centre, said that a great number of the country's five million tourists per year are travellers on organized sex tours from Japan, Taiwan, South Korea, Australia, Europe and the United States. Although Canada was not included on that list, I find it hard to believe that such activity is not being orchestrated from this country as well.
According to those who have researched this entire area of the sex trade, articles on child prostitution overseas regularly appear in pedophile newspapers. One article that appeared in the newsletter of the North American Man/Boy Love Association rhapsodised about a 12-year old Asian boy who truly loved his work. The writer of the article went on to say: "Weigh the pros and cons of becoming involved yourself in sex tourism overseas. Seek and find love from American boys on a platonic, purely emotional level. For sexual satisfaction, travel once or twice yearly overseas. You might get arrested overseas for patronizing a boy prostitute. But the legal consequences of being caught patronizing a boy prostitute in a friendly place overseas will be less severe".
A pedophile was advised by friends to go to Asia where thousands of kids were there just for the picking. He attended a NAMBLA meeting and afterward confided to a member that he wanted to go to Thailand but he did not know how to set it up. He was told it was no problem, that he would be given a contact and he could arrange everything. A few weeks later he was with one of those who were there for the picking.
A convicted child molester, after his release from prison, enjoyed telling children in his neighbourhood that the boys he had hired in Thailand charged only $8 or $9. He was considering moving there, shortly before he disappeared, to take advantage of that country's "more mature cultural attitudes".
Australia, Germany, Norway, Sweden and the United States all have laws now that allow prosecution of child sex tourists upon their return home. However some critics from these countries are sceptical that the law will be effective. One law professor from Australia stated:
The enactment of such legislation will be an important symbolic and polit-ical statement. However, there is real danger that, if the legislation isnot accompanied by effective enforcement measures at the national and international level, its promises could turn out to be rather hollow-.Prosecuting a sexual offence where a child has been the victim is a difficult enough task in any event; when it is further complicated by the problems of obtaining evidence in a foreign country, ensuring the willingness of witnesses to testify in that country where proceedings are conducted in a foreign language, that task becomes even more onerous. Furthermore, the reasons for the lack of effective enforcement of local laws in certain countries may also result in a lack of the close law enforcement co-operation needed to put together a case of this sort.
This statement has a great deal of weight and attention should be paid to it.
The section of Bill C-27 dealing with child sex tourism sounds good but the bill itself does not outline how the government is going to enforce it. Perhaps someone from the government side will be able to explain this further in today's ensuing debate. I look forward to hearing their reasoning. It is the Canadian government's duty to make certain that it does not only follow through on international agreements but that it also be a leader by its actions. As we all know, it is actions and not words that put a stop to crime.
Bill C-27 is a helpful bill but it is not a great bill. A great bill would have made changes to section 213 of the Criminal Code. However, the minister is well aware of my private member's bill, Bill C-248. I believe he realizes that to properly curb prostitution this section needs to be amended. He knows that changes to section 213 would assist the police, allowing fingerprinting and easier search access to take place.
This bill could have repealed section 745 or any number of other things.
In summary, the bill has more to do with optics rather than substance. It is not just the justice minister and his Liberal philosophy which fall short; it is his cabinet colleagues and the Prime Minister who failed to give the justice minister the latitude he needs to bring in appropriate adjustments to the Criminal Code. The government's failure to legislate on criminal justice matters
has to do with an old style attitude of being a system defender rather than a system changer.
Canadians in general have little confidence or praise for the results which come from our criminal courts. Since it is largely a Liberal system, Canadians can understand why this government will never be known as the law and order group or the government that has the courage to govern on behalf of ordinary Canadians and provide safer streets.
The bill before the House today does so little when so much needs to be done. I call on the minister to quickly and comprehensively deal with the subjects that are only lightly touched upon in this bill.
I will be supporting Bill C-27. I hope my hon. friends across the floor will also be considerate when Reformers submit amendments to make this bill a better bill and more reflective of mainstream Canadian values.
