Paul Forseth

[Public Service, April 27th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, my question is for the President of the Treasury Board. Before he was minister, he was very critical of the performance pay scheme. He previously said that doling out the so-called bonuses to nearly everyone just perpetuated mediocrity.

What happened since he became minister? Why has there been no change to the system?

[Points of Order, April 26th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, this question comes as a complete surprise to me.

Normally I believe the Speaker would notify me that such a question would be given. It is interesting that we are on national television, that even the side comments are taken by the people at the desk and that often we have at least two staff photographers loaded with cameras walking around taking pictures every which way, which is very nice.

It sounds to me as though the member over there is concerned whether we have a cell phone, a Blackberry, a computer or whether the cell phone now has the capability of taking a picture.

I took pictures without a flash following the protocol of the House. I feel it was a silly matter for the House leader to raise. He never phoned me and never talked to me. He raised the issue and that is the case of the matter.

[Committees of the House, April 2nd, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the second report of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates regarding the Governor General of Canada, the role, duties and funding for activities.

Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee requests that the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

I also have the honour to present, in both official languages, the third report of the Standing Committee on Government Operations and Estimates. Pursuant to Standing Order 111(1), the committee recommends that the proposed appointment of Ms. Maria Barrados, as president of the Public Service Commission of Canada, be confirmed.

[Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act, April 2nd, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, after much delay, the government finally has tabled its whistleblower legislation, Bill C-25 the public servants disclosure protection act, but the bill is so poor it should be withdrawn and replaced with a legitimate one.

I recall when the Liberals were in opposition, they railed against the Progressive Conservatives, outlining the desperate need for such legislation. Once they were in power they forgot all about it.

Years later a timid attempt was made through an internal memo policy but it did not work. Then I managed to get the Treasury Board minister to up the stakes and recognize the memo policy in statute. However, the whole matter clearly needed a comprehensive stand-alone regime with a full budget and a completely independent and powerful authority to investigate and remediate.

The bill establishes a procedure for the disclosure of wrongdoing in the public sector and tries to provide for the protection of persons who disclose the wrongdoing. The bill fails to deliver. Unfortunately, it took two high profile scandals, the Radwanski affair and the sponsorship debacle, to push whistleblower legislation to the top of the government's agenda.

The bill should bring a culture change. The old poisoned culture became painfully evident during a parliamentary investigation into the conduct of the former privacy commissioner, George Radwanski, who threatened to destroy the career of the rat who exposed his lavish overspending, forgeries and frauds.

My service in the middle of that committee process unlocked the pent up knowledge of many who knew of the multiple wrongdoing. No one had talked up to that point because they were all afraid.

Upon reflection from that experience, I was convinced that comprehensive legislation was needed. Also, the depth and extent of abuses in the current sponsorship scandal of ad scam, the plumbers unit, and the Gagliano papers, underlines the need to encourage a new approach within the public service.

The current integrity officer, Edward Keyserlingk, who has long criticized the policy under which he operates for its toothlessness, says that he expected a lot more from the legislation given the climate in which it was drafted. The bill stops short of giving the new integrity commissioner full investigative powers, including the ability to subpoena and gain access to cabinet documents. In addition, the commissioner will report through a minister rather than directly to Parliament.

We put the matter directly to the government the other day, and I said:

Mr. Speaker, whistleblower legislation must be seen to be trustworthy and workable by the faithful public servant who may need it.

In the bill tabled yesterday, the government still wants to politically control the independent oversight role of Parliament.

Why is the government insisting on undermining employee confidence in this new office by injecting a ministerial filter for reporting wrongdoing?

The President of the Queen's Privy Council, in part said:

--I do not agree with my colleague. The bill does not filter at all. The fact that the commissioner will be appointed by both Houses, the Senate and the House of Commons, I think shows that the position is pretty independent.

I asked further:

--the President of the Treasury Board admitted that he was wrong about being against whistleblowing in view of the Radwanski scandal, but the problem is that we need comprehensive stand alone legislation that creates a real system with officers and a proper budget, and with credible authority across Canada that is separate from politics.

The Treasury Board is the employer of the public service. Why is the President of the Treasury Board not ensuring that employees get everything they need to keep the system honest? Will he provide that?

Well, the minister, the President of the Treasury Board, just sat there in his chair, and again the President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada answered in the following way:

Mr. Speaker, I think the member should read the bill. Not only would we cover all the angles but we would provide all the tools in the budget for the future commissioner to do his job. With all the tools he will have, he will be able to not only go through every department but he will have everything he needs to seek all the information and then to make recommendations.

After that, when we look at the correct situation and it is not proceeding in departments, we are even able to deposit a special report to Parliament. Therefore it is pretty independent. I think the way we have planned it is pretty accurate.

Whistleblower legislation is no panacea to what ails government. Its potential downside is that it offers disgruntled and problem employees with the potential to make unfounded and nuisance allegations against their employers anonymously. However, the commissioner will have the power to vet such complaints in private to decide to proceed, ensuring that frivolous or vexatious complaints are quickly dismissed.

The mere existence of whistleblower legislation, no matter how strong, will not immediately result in a more ethical government and happier bureaucrats. Government needs to be competent in management so that the need for reporters of wrongdoing becomes the rare exception. Canadians should demand and expect line management that does not require reporting to the outside.

The bill does not cover workers in private industry who deal with the government, like the employees of the ad agency so entangled in the current scandals. It applies only to federal employees, with many exemptions. It covers most federal departments as well as crown corporations such as VIA Rail, but excludes police and intelligence officers and members of the armed forces. About 4,000 employees of the House of Commons, many of whom have access to sensitive information, are also exempt. Cabinet staff is exempt--perhaps where knowledge of most wrongdoing would come to light.

However, despite the problems, the legislation is a start. Had it been in place a few years ago, it is possible that the sponsorship scandal, which saw millions in federal funds flow to Liberal-friendly ad agencies, would have been stopped a lot sooner. The few people who tried to speak out about the sponsorship abuse were reprimanded. Even now, one person has had his life threatened if that person dares to talk to my parliamentary committee.

Often it is in the higher levels, where discretionary decision making happens, where the real problems arise. There is no point reporting wrongdoing at first instance to those who are part of the swindle. Independence of reporting and investigation and powerful remedial action are vital elements for this whole scheme to work.

The culture of transparency must come from the Prime Minister so that we can put the access to information office out of business. Each person in the public service must exercise their own self-governance of probity. They will only do this if there is a system-wide culture of openness, where everything is on the open record and transparent and secrecy is accomplished only through a reverse onus process for justified need.

In governments, corporations and other big institutions, there are people who risk all by openly denouncing crooked behaviour. A healthy democracy needs such people and society must protect them.

Bill C-25 was eagerly anticipated and it is dismally inadequate. It would create a public service integrity commissioner who would report through a cabinet minister rather than directly to Parliament. That sabotages both the credibility and independence of the office, in the view of public employees.

Even worse, the bill fails to give the commissioner the right to subpoena witnesses, access cabinet documents or follow investigations into cabinet ministers' offices, the RCMP, the Canadian Security Intelligence Service, the Communications Security Establishment, or National Defence.

In 1996, a junior manager in the federal public works department went to top executives with alarming information. There was something fishy with his supervisor's oversight of contracts for federal sponsorships which were intended to show the flag in the emotionally charged atmosphere after the 1995 Quebec referendum. What happened? The civil servant was ignored, then demoted and came close to being fired. His supervisor got a promotion.

So the Prime Minister brings in his first bill under his watch and it is a dud. The cabinet caved in to the deputy minister group, which does not want to be second guessed by upstarts. The Prime Minister just cannot get anything right. He finally brings in new legislation that he can honestly call his own, but he gets it all wrong. Canadians do not want an integrity commissioner who sits comfortably in the lap of a Liberal cabinet minister.

I say to the government, will it live up to the democratic deficit promise and let Parliament select, appoint and supervise Canada's first integrity commissioner? Many prominent Canadians with knowledge or an understanding of the importance of an integrity commissioner say the legislation is flawed. Whistleblower legislation should cover all aides to cabinet ministers and the Department of National Defence, the RCMP and all other federal agencies.

Will the government allow the committee to fix the bill and replace its flawed construction and give Parliament the responsibility of seeking out, appointing and supervising an integrity commissioner who will have a real and uncompromised independence in the House?

We want the concept to succeed. The government is going to call an election soon, and it will try to claim it has a bill, but I say it is not worth much. On this side of the House, we are sincere. May we find some on the government side who are as well.

[Budget Implementation Act, 2004, April 1st, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, perhaps the member did almost redeem himself.

Much has been said about the budget and the ways and means motion, but I want to take a quick recount of the 2004 budget at a glance. I will give some statements and responses.

It is the seventh consecutive balanced budget with a projected surplus of $1.9 billion for 2003-04, which must go to the $510 billion debt. The problem is that there is no long term plan for national debt reduction; it is just what happens to be left over. That is a very inadequate signal to the foreign investor market.

Second, program spending jumps by 7.6% from last year to a record $143.4 billion and jumps by another $12.7 billion over the next two years. It is up a massive $41.1 billion or 40% over the last seven years. The government is taking too much out of the economy into the public sector, which puts a drag on job creation and overall economic development for the future.

Third is a promise to improve accountability and integrity in government spending in wake of the sponsorship scandal, and no deficits. That is an admission that ministerial accountability and oversight up to this point have been completely inadequate and that Parliament has not been sufficiently informed.

Then the budget stated that the Liberals would re-establish a comptroller general to oversee all government spending. That is an admission that unqualified employees approve and sign cheques and comptrollership accounting is sadly lacking. The Liberals cannot manage.

Next, government is to identify $3 billion in annual savings within four years. That is an admission that the Liberals' financial planning cycles contain much waste and imprecision and they must be continually corrected after the fact.

Mr. Speaker, I should say that I am splitting my time with the member for Dewdney—Alouette.

Next, the budget says that the Liberals will reduce the debt to GDP ratio to 25% within 10 years. That is a laudable goal, but it is an unambitious goal in view of the possibilities. It is a plan of a missed opportunity for debt reduction when it is possible, for it may not always be possible in the future. Despite some payments, the debt is still $23.1 billion higher than when the Prime Minister first became the finance minister.

There is $7 billion over 10 years for cities by rebating the GST. That is a helpful but small benefit. It is also an admission that this should never have been collected in the first place through taxing a lower level of government, through one government taxing another government.

Then there is the promised $4 billion over 10 years to clean up contaminated sites across Canada. That is a very helpful gesture to a very old and neglected problem. I remember visiting the Sydney tar ponds and embarrassing the minister to get him there so that he would at least look at it for a change. That is a re-announcement of a promise made many times before.

Then there is the $1 billion for cash strapped farmers, with about $680 million targeted to cattle producers hurt by the mad cow crisis. The $80 per cow is only a partial but helpful and welcome benefit. It is too little and far too late for many farmers already bankrupt and gone from the sector, even though government was repeatedly warned.

Next is $665 million over two years for public health, including $165 million to establish a national public health agency. It is a needed adjunct for public health safety but no help for the basic underfunding to meet national health care standards. There is just a promise to talk in the summer after the election.

There is $605 million over five years for intelligence, border protection, marine and cyber security, threat assessment and emergency response. Certainly we should have a concern with the effectiveness as these large bureaucracies increase in size.

There is $270 million to provide venture capital for start-up technology companies and to help get private sector financing for leading edge technologies. Here we find out that the government is trying to pick winners instead of concentrating on lowering the cost for all in a level playing field.

There is also $250 million to cover Canadian Forces missions in Afghanistan and efforts to prevent terrorism. Unfortunately, that is an unavoidable expense for the basics without any real equipment enhancements. It is just the basic cost of being there.

There is another $240 million more for international assistance in 2005-06. It is an opportunity for much waste if it is not well managed.

Then there is the Canada learning bond to provide up to $2,000 for children born after 2003 in lower income families and a grant up to $3,000 for first year post-secondary dependent students from such families. It could be more vote buying posturing than actually helping many students as only small numbers will be able to qualify for this provision.

It will reduce the air traveller's security charge for domestic and international air travel. It is long overdue and still too high for the actual service delivered.

There will be faster spending of $1 billion in funding to cities and towns to repair roads and sewers, including $350 million for Toronto transit. Again, there is no realistic national plan for transportation infrastructure in partnership with the provinces.

There will be reinstatement of a $1 billion prudence reserve on top of the regular $3 billion rainy day fund to ensure the country's books stay balanced. That is a cosmetic gesture as revenues are always grossly underestimated. It is also an admission that budget plans are not very accurate or reliable.

There will be tax act changes to allow bigger write-offs on computers, heavy machinery and other capital investments. The government is disturbing the marketplace by playing favourites rather than improving write-down schedules for all equipment upgrades equally for all sectors on a predictable internationally competitive basis so markets decide rather than government bureaucrats just guessing.

Petro-Canada promised to sell the government's 19% stake in the company in the next fiscal year. The current market value of this ownership is close to $3 billion. About $1 billion will go to fund environmental technology development and commercialization. The proceeds will no longer have to apply to the national debt.

The Liberals repealed the Debt Servicing and Reduction Account Act that required proceeds from such asset sales to be used to pay off the debt. The Prime Minister has promised to put part of the funds into a green technology foundation, adding to the nearly $9 billion doled out to foundations under the finance minister. It was criticized by the Auditor General in the past.

Then there was the promised employment insurance. The budget announced the EI surplus would swell to $48.1 billion from $43.8 billion last year, and the premium rate is frozen at $1.98 for 2005. The EI rate setting provisions of the Employment Insurance Act have been suspended once again. Rate setting provisions have been suspended since 2001 to keep the premiums artificially high while the Liberals slowly consider changes to the rate setting mechanism. The Auditor General has concluded that, since 2001 rate setting did not observe the intent of the EI act, they are basically balancing the books on workers. “High EI rates is a tax on jobs”, is a quote from the current Prime Minister when he was in opposition.

In the budget the Liberals are promising targeted spending and a plan to clean up government if they are re-elected. Can we trust the Liberals? Just look at the track record. The Liberals have done an awful job and Canadians are not getting value for dollar. Canadians are sending more and more to Ottawa, but hospital waiting lists are getting longer, students go deeper in debt and our soldiers are spread as thinly as ever.

Meanwhile, the tax dollars flow like cheap wine for Liberal friends and bureaucratic sinkholes like the long gun registry, corporate welfare, Challenger jets, grants to special interest groups, the Governor General's spending, friendly advertising agencies and so on. These tax dollars would be far more productive for the multiplier effect to be involved if they were left in the pockets of workers, investors, business persons, homemakers, farmers, fishermen and students rather than in the hands of a government bureaucrat.

It is a contrast of visions: the Liberal old world view, the old bad habits, or the confident march to the future. Canadians demand better and they deserve no less.

[Budget Implementation Act, 2004, April 1st, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully and I think that was perhaps the most self-delusional speech I have heard in a long time, and I think the member actually believes it. This country labours under the burden of a bad government. We just heard the member. He is proud of it. He used the words boastful and proud. Really, I think it is delusional.

I will give him an opportunity to redeem himself out of this phoney balanced theme he mentioned. He used the word balanced a number of times. I will ask him simply and give him an opportunity to redeem himself now. What is his explanation of and commitment to the reduction of the national debt? What is his vision for paying for past excesses of living off the national credit card with high interest? What is his explanation to deal with the national debt? I will be listening.

[Budget Implementation Act, 2004, April 1st, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, my spontaneous response to the member for Edmonton North is that I want to thank her for her leadership by example, her humour and her personal strength, and I want to thank her for being such a role model.

From the time of Agnes Macphail, the first woman here, a bust of whom we pass every day, the member for Edmonton North has certainly lived up to this. She broken down barriers.

We must say that we hope for much more to come. She has been a vanguard of change and reform and has really made the House a better place. I wish to extend a big thanks and I say God bless her.

[Whistleblower Legislation, March 30th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, the Liberals have had 10 years to implement whistleblower protection. The only reason there is legislation on the table now is to whitewash that they got caught losing $100 million.

The bill is just a Liberal pre-election strategy that has nothing to do with protecting the civil service, members of the armed forces or the RCMP. It is about protecting cabinet reputations.

When will the government introduce real legislation that protects whistleblowers?

[Whistleblower Legislation, March 30th, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, public employees need whistleblower protection that really works, but those who can shed light on the situation are actually afraid to come forward. The government legislation is a complete sham.

Will the minister pull that legislation and replace it with a plan that really protects public employees?

[Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act, March 23rd, 2004]

Mr. Speaker, the President of the Treasury Board admitted that he was wrong about being against whistleblowing in view of the Radwanski scandal, but the problem is that we need comprehensive stand alone legislation that creates a real system with officers and a proper budget, and with credible authority across Canada that is separate from politics.

The Treasury Board is the employer of the public service. Why is the President of Treasury Board not ensuring that employees get everything they need to keep the system honest? Will he provide that?