Peter Mancini

[Marine Atlantic, October 27th, 1997]

moved:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should consider the advisability of taking into account safety concerns and local economic spin-offs before proceeding with any further privatization of Marine Atlantic services between Cape Breton and Newfoundland.

Madam Speaker, I rise today on this issue because it is of considerable importance to the people in my riding who live in and around the port of North Sydney, an historic port and an area which I believe was once the fourth most important port in Canada.

Today, unfortunately, the towns of North Sydney and Sydney Mines are in a difficult economic situation for a number of reasons. Partly it is because of the dependence on the coal industry in the town of Sydney Mines. As a result of the decline in the coal industry there has been a decline in the port facilities and shipping in the town of North Sydney.

Of crucial concern is the link between North Sydney and Port au Basque, an historic link which has existed for close to a century when North Sydney was the gateway to Newfoundland.

I left Cape Breton early this morning. I would be remiss if I did not comment on the weather, which was sunny and clear and with no snow on the ground. As I had an opportunity to fly over the island, it afforded me a chance to look down on the town of North Sydney and the tremendous waterways and the ocean that form the coastline of Cape Breton. Historically that coastline has been a source of tremendous wealth and development, not only for Cape Breton but also for Canada. When the Europeans first came here they arrived on that coastline. In fact, the first fishing boats came to North Sydney as early as the 15th century and began what was to develop into a tremendous trading port.

In 1834 the British based General Mining Association built the first coal shipping pier in North Sydney. It also built the first iron railway in North America which ran between Sydney Mines and North Sydney, allowing the mined coal to be transferred to the ports for shipment.

By 1850 North Sydney was a major, busy centre of activity and by 1880 there was a bank, a jeweller and the development of a town.

North Sydney was a major port in what was then the province of Cape Breton. There are those on the island who think perhaps we should return to those days. However, at that time we were still a separate province, not annexed by the province of Nova Scotia.

In 1885 North Sydney sought incorporation as the first municipality on the island. As I have indicated, in the 1870s it was the fourth largest port behind Montreal, Quebec and Halifax. In approximately 1889 it became the gateway to Newfoundland. It became the mainland terminal for ferry service to that province although it was not a province at that time. On June 30, 1889 the first ship left from Port aux Basques with 50 passengers and arrived in North Sydney.

That pattern has been repeated for 100 years. It is a pattern guaranteed to the province of Newfoundland under the terms of Confederation; that there would be established a transportation link to connect the island of Newfoundland to the mainland of Canada. The town of North Sydney prospered as a result, as did the town of Port aux Basques. Many sailors, many fishing and trading vessels made that port their home. In both communities there was the development of hotels and restaurants, ship supply stores and many merchants to provide for the needs of those sailors.

During World War I the port of North Sydney again played decisive role. We can still see the remnants of battalions. That repeated itself on the 1940s where North Sydney was an assembly port for the ships loaded at the “Saint River” ports before they crossed the ocean. In 1941 there were over 400 ships anchored in the port of North Sydney.

That brief historical outline will indicate the importance of shipping and the shipping trade to the town. It is no secret that over the last number of years, with the decline in the fisheries and with the decline in the coal industry, the town of North Sydney has suffered a tremendous economic burden. Despite that the people of the town are resolute. They have continued to thrive. Some of the businesses have been there for 100 years. They are family businesses. One bank remains committed to the town. The town has not prospered but it has endured and made the best of a bad situation.

There is tremendous uncertainty in that town today. Those who come from not quite as economically advantaged parts of Canada as others will understand that when there is uncertainty in a town like North Sydney, it has tremendous ramifications on investment and on the social fabric of the town. That uncertainty derives from whether Marine Atlantic will continue to be an economic presence in that town.

The reason for the uncertainty is many fold. In part there are rumours, as there always are in certain towns where there is one major employer, of downsizing, of privatization, of alternate routes. There is concern that the head office of Marine Atlantic, which is now located in Moncton, may become the centre for reservations which employ a number of people in the town, and there is a concern that there may be a decline in activity.

That kind of uncertainty spreads throughout the entire island. When I talk about the town of North Sydney it is important to understand that it is perhaps a 20 minute drive from Sydney which also benefits from any economic activity in that port.

The government has not clarified what the minister of transportation intends to do with the whole Marine Atlantic enterprise. I point to section 140(1) of Bill C-9 which may not seem terribly important to anyone who is not from North Sydney. The section allows the minister to enter into agreements with any persons, including the government of a province, in respect of the continued services of Canada's constitutional obligations, which is a direct reference to the ties to Newfoundland.

Section 140(1)(b) ensures “the continuation of services similar to those provided by Marine Atlantic Inc. before the transfer, sale or disposal on the terms and conditions that the minister considers appropriate, including by making financial contributions or grants or other financial assistance”, and in section 140(1)(c) “the assets of Marine Atlantic Inc. that are transferred, sold or otherwise disposed of under subsection (2)”.

In addition section 140(2) indicates “Marine Atlantic Inc. is authorized to transfer, sell or otherwise dispose of all or substantially all of its assets used in any major business or activity of the corporation, including the shares of a subsidiary”. To the people of the town of North Sydney this heightens the concern they have surrounding the enterprise.

To illustrate the importance of the Marine Atlantic to the general area, let me indicate what was spent from 1995 to 1996 by Marine Atlantic in the town of North Sydney. I will not read the entire list, but I will read those in a community as desperate for economic growth as we are in Cape Breton: Lingan Builders Limited, $36,000; Ojolick Associates, a local architect, $35,000; Professional Upholstery, $3,300; R&A Paper Products, $31,700; Clover Produce, close to $300,000, because it provides much of the foodstuffs for the ferry service that travels back and forth; Convention Cape Breton, $17,000; Ryan Wayne Carpet Sales, $63,000; Standard Office Supplies, $11,400; and the list goes on to indicate the kind of impact the enterprise has on the community.

All these companies are small, locally run businesses in the towns of North Sydney and Sydney. They all employ three to four people from the community in solid jobs. The loss or the downsizing of Marine Atlantic would have a tremendous impact on the local economy.

When we have sought clarification from the government on what its plans are for Marine Atlantic so that at least the people in the community can make their plans, we have not received any clear message. I can cite correspondence between me and the minister and between my predecessor and the former minister wherein requests were made on the future of Marine Atlantic. The responses continue to be somewhat vague. I could illustrate that by reading an example into the record.

On March 20, 1997 the Canadian Auto Workers, which is the union that represents many of the workers, sought from the then minister of transport some clarification. The letter stated:

Rumours—cause much stress for the employees of Marine Atlantic. We, Mr. Minister, as the executive of the unions representing 1,300 Marine Atlantic employees in Atlantic Canada,—are asking you to respond to us as quickly as possible to advise us of the facts.

The response was anything but clear. It stated:

Notwithstanding the foregoing, it is expected that Marine Atlantic will continue to operate this service with the aim of reducing costs and increasing efficiency. Please be assured that you will be informed if there is any change of circumstances concerning the future of Marine Atlantic as an ongoing concern.

There was a commitment in the letter to maintain the constitutional requirement of service between Newfoundland and Cape Breton. However the matter of privatization was not clear.

I will read from a pamphlet given out by Rod Morrison, president and CEO of Marine Atlantic, to the workers. The date on it was some time after the letter to the minister. He stated in the pamphlet:

There is absolutely no truth to these damaging rumours and I want you to know the Government of Canada has not given me any direct or indirect indication that privatization is imminent.

He went on to state something that was important:

We have the best people, the best ships, the best technology and, with a continual commitment towards efficiency, I am satisfied we will remain as the operators.

Notwithstanding I wrote to the current minister requesting clarification and the response I received was:

As to the location of the—head office, MAI is currently examining all options and will put forward a recommendation in due course. Any proposed relocation will, however, be based on commercial considerations—

The people in North Sydney and Sydney Mines are under very real stress as a result of the unclear position of the government.

Last weekend when I was in my riding it was raised by two constituents. I was not in the town of North Sydney. These were people I met in Sydney while I was at a meeting there. They talked about the impact on their families. It is important for us to know exactly what direction the government will be moving in this regard.

Another aspect I have asked the government to consider in this motion is the safety impact. Currently Marine Atlantic has a good safety record, one of the best in North America, because there is a strong unionized workforce, a satisfied workforce, and it has been operating the transportation link for near 100 years.

In closing I ask the government to consider the advisability of taking into account safety concerns and the local economic spinoffs before proceeding with any further privatization of the service between Newfoundland and Cape Breton.

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

I do not for one minute indicate that I am not in many ways better off than many of the people I represent. I understand that. These members ought to understand that as well. Like the people I represent, I have no problem paying a fair share of taxes because of the many benefits that I think this country can give me and the people I represent.

I do not think the people in these members' ridings who earn $50,000 or $60,000 or $70,000 a year mind paying their fair share of taxes because they know it derives health benefits and transportation for them and education for their children. I think those people would not be opposed to a fair taxation system.

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, there was a great deal of preface to the simple question dealing with middle income Canadians who earn between $50,000 and $60,000 a year. I guess they are middle income Canadians in the province of Alberta. They may be considered wealthy Canadians in other parts of this country.

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I will be pleased to answer the hon. clairvoyant member who seems to have a crystal ball with which he determines who will and who will not be elected.

With regard to his question, the NDP has always been concerned about education, culture, health care and social programs, the things that have always made this country great, the things that this government tried to take credit for in a prior comment.

Regarding where the money would come from, it would come from a fair taxation policy for the hundreds of corporations and wealthy individuals who pay no tax to this country for those programs now. It is a simple answer to a simple question.

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, given that the province of British Columbia probably has the most robust economy of any province in Canada, and given that is a direct result of the NDP government in that province, far be it for me to second guess the minister of finance for British Columbia and his policies.

The hon. member should know as to taxing property in Vancouver versus property in Winnipeg versus property in Sydney—Victoria, these are property matters that are left to another authority other than those in this House.

I welcome a real question. I would suggest that the hon. members discuss the policies of the minister of finance in British Columbia with him. They might find it in their hearts to adopt some of them.

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I have given my views on the harmonized tax. The hon. member is correct. I welcome his question because in terms of a tax on wealth, some of the government members used terms like every Canadian should pay exactly the same amount of taxes and at the same rate and at the same percentage. Of course I do not share that view, and that is why I oppose the harmonized sales tax.

If an individual is buying children's clothing or if a senior is paying for oil or electricity on a fixed income at the same rate as an individual who is wealthy, it is not a fair tax system. In terms of taxing the wealthy, I think they should pay their fair share which would be considerably more than many of the people in my constituency who are on fixed incomes.

[Income Tax Conventions Implementation Act, 1997, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to address this bill in the House. Before I do I feel I have to make some comments with regard to the statements made by the previous two speakers, the members of the government.

I take the hon. members at their word when they talk about things like fairness and a caring government. I feel it incumbent on me to point out that if they do believe benefits should be distributed fairly and the government is actively pursuing this I can point out numerous examples where benefits have not been distributed fairly.

I could begin with the people in Atlantic Canada who are seasonal workers. I could go on to the members of the merchant marines who are seeking the same kind of benefits as other veterans from the second world war. I could go on to talk about the First Nations people who are seeking the same kind of employment opportunities that those in central Canada benefit from. I believe them when they say their government is committed to those things and I look forward to their introducing some legislation that might move us in that direction.

That being said, I feel incumbent to talk a bit about the importance of this bill to the people in my riding. It is an important bill because I represent a large number of seniors in Sydney—Victoria. There is a disproportionate amount of seniors if we look at the demographics in terms of population. We have a large number of seniors living in my riding, some of whom receive social security from the United States.

The reason that many of the seniors in my riding receive that income is telling. Many of them are seniors who went away 30 or 40 years ago to find employment in what we used to call the Boston states, to find employment in New York. The adage or the picture of the maritimer going down the road is as old as I can remember and indeed many of the seniors who would benefit from U.S. social security do so because there were no employment opportunities for them back in the 1940s and 1950s in Atlantic Canada, and unfortunately they have come home to retire to see many of their nephews and nieces and grandchildren going down the road again.

It is with some interest that the seniors in my riding who do receive this type of income will review this legislation. I cannot help wonder as we move to amend this legislation if what we are really doing is preparing the next generation of Atlantic Canadians for their U.S. social security benefits that they might collect in the event that they were fortunate enough to retire back to the land that they did not want to leave in the first place but had to because of the policies of the government that were referred to by the previous speakers as caring and fair.

That being said, it is also interesting to see the beginning of what I would call a harmonization tax system between us and the Americans. In light of recent free trade agreements, in light of recent developments it is not surprising that we are beginning to see a harmonization of tax systems between the two countries.

The previous speaker went to great lengths to talk about the health care system, how important it was to Canadians and how there may be some opposition and some concern about American giant corporations moving into that health care system. As we look at the harmonization that has taken place in terms of economic policy and the integration of the North American economic factions that this government is so proud of it is no surprise that we see today the beginnings of some type of tax harmonization.

I will now move directly to the bill. I am interested and pleased to say that in the New Democratic Party we have always fought to prevent fiscal tax evasion and we have always fought for fairer taxes. Unfortunately the same cannot be said of government. In the province I come from, if the government is concerned about fair taxes, I believe that we can begin this debate.

I believe the government has finally given us a bit of a beachhead to begin the debate that we took to the Canadian public in the last election on fair taxes. If the government is truly interested in that it should look at some things like the GST and, in the province I come from, the harmonized sales tax, which is an unfair tax. If the government were committed to fair taxation it would begin implementation of fair taxation by scrapping those taxes.

Government members may think this is rhetoric from the NDP and from the opposition benches, but I cannot help but notice that in the last provincial election in my home province of Nova Scotia the hon. premier, Russell MacLellan, who was a government member who voted in favour of the GST, during his leadership campaign thought better of it. I cannot help but notice that the former provincial finance minister, the hon. Bernie Boudreau, who negotiated the harmonized sales tax with this government, began his leadership campaign to be the Liberal premier of Nova Scotia by saying that he had thought better of it. The conversions on the road to Damascus were amazing for the people of Nova Scotia to behold. They will have their say on it before too long.

If we want to talk about the beginnings of fair taxation, we could look at some of those policies.

With respect to the bill, parts I through V which attempt to avoid double taxation we have no problem with. We can support those parts in principle.

Part VI amends the Canada-Netherlands Income Tax Convention Act, 1986 and adds provisions concerning mutual assistance in the collection of taxes and the elimination of withholding tax on patent and knowhow royalties, which are technical amendments. We may be able to find our way to support those.

Part VII, however, contains superficial revisions to the legislation from the previous Parliament and I think that we would find it difficult to support that section of the bill.

The group Canadians asking for social security equality lobbied the government to take the legislation back to pre-1996. People made their retirement plans based on the structure as it was at that time. There was one set of conditions that these seniors planned their retirement on and it has now all changed. I am concerned about the consequences to the ordinary taxpayer who cannot now change their retirement plans the way the government can change legislation.

Those people who planned for their retirement under the rules of the pre-1996 legislation will not be returned to their same situation but will find themselves taxed at 85% of their income. They are justifiably concerned and justifiably outraged.

My colleague has indicated that there should be a grandfathering clause for those individuals and I would support that. The NDP will always support legitimate tax reform and has always been the first advocate of real tax reform.

Again I note that the hon. member for Essex, who spoke in the House prior to question period, talked about how this legislation came into being. She said that her constituents lobbied her, phoned her, and then the MPs got together and persuaded the Minister of Finance to listen to their concerns. I only wish that the fairness talked about by government members and the method of introducing change could be so easily accomplished by those of us from outside the Ontario region.

My constituents have called me to lobby me concerning changes to the employment act, changes to fisheries and the TAGS program. Every time we attempt to have the Minister of Finance so graciously change his legislation, or the Minister of Human Resources Development, we are not met with quite the same friendly hand.

I admire the hon. member for Essex for her tenacity. I remind the government that we are all in this House elected members and I would hope that we would receive the same consideration from the Minister of Finance.

[Atlantic Canada, October 20th, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I rise in the House to address the prime minister's recent remarks in Moncton about tough love. The prime minister was quoted as being unrepentant about the severe effects of his government's deep cuts and boasted that the Atlantic region was better off as a result of these cuts. It looks like the tough love has resulted in the children leaving home.

The east coast population is shrinking. In recent census data, 2,700 people between the ages of 18 and 24 left Cape Breton over a five year period and have not returned.

The number of young families leaving Cape Breton and Atlantic Canada echoes Steinbeck's depression era novel The Grapes of Wrath . I would submit that if unemployment is down then it is due to the fact that the population is leaving the region.

Liberal policies have created a nation of migrant workers. I call on the government to wake up and take immediate action to implement a real economic strategy for Atlantic Canada—

[Speech From The Throne, October 2nd, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I acknowledged the good things in this country. As I indicated at the beginning, if the member had been present for my speech, Cape Bretoners were among the major contributors to the good things in this country.

He says that Canada is doing well. I would only respond that some people in Canada are doing much better than others. It is for those people who are not that we ought to have concerns.

[Speech From The Throne, October 2nd, 1997]

Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for the number of questions contained in his statement. I will try to deal with each one. I propose a number of possible solutions to the problems.

First would be a fairer tax system in the country which is not necessarily the tax breaks advocated by the party the member represents. Lowering individual tax rates for an individual who is already living below the poverty line is of little assistance. But a fairer tax system to tax some of those who are not paying taxes in the country would contribute to the national good. That money could then be used to invest in places like Cape Breton. That could be a first step.

The member says that things in the past have not worked and that I am proposing more of the same. Some past solutions have worked. When they are free of political interference, the ideas are good. In Cape Breton we have a project called New Dawn, a community based developmental agency that is doing remarkable things for seniors and housing.

He asked if the people of Cape Breton have often sent the wrong people to represent them. Sometimes we have and sometimes we have not. I would point out that we have had representatives as distinguished as Clarence Gillis and Malcolm MacInnis and other very good representatives.