Aileen Carroll

[Supply, May 26th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, there has been a lot of discussion today about the need for this measure and how it will affect the health care persons both in Taiwan and Canada. Indeed the motion itself seems rather benign at first appraisal. However the issue of observer status in the World Health Organization as a United Nations organization is as one would expect subject to United Nations rules.

As my colleague, the secretary of state mentioned earlier today, membership of the WHO is open to nation states. Nation states are defined as those having been recognized by the United Nations credentials committee. This committee has not recognized Taiwan as a state.

Associate membership is available to territories or groups of territories which are not responsible for the conduct of their international relations. Application for admittance to the WHO as an associate member must be made on behalf of the territories or groups of territories by the member or other authority having responsibility for their international relations. According to the rules and procedures of the WHO and the United Nations, an application to admit Taiwan as an associate member would have to be made by China.

Some of the members today have mentioned that certain international health authorities are “observers” to the WHO. While these organizations have attended the annual World Health Assembly meetings in the past, their participation was not contested and received broad support of all WHO members.

Canada has long been on record that it would support a formula for Taiwan's participation in the WHO as long as this formula is in accordance with WHO constitutional rules and procedures and has received broad based approval of other WHO members.

As I mentioned earlier today, no country in the world today has diplomatic relations with both China and Taiwan.

Since the United Nations does not recognize Taiwan as a state, Canada's relationship with Taiwan is an unofficial one. As has been mentioned at great length, unofficial relations have not prevented Canada from developing close, mutually beneficial ties with Taiwan. On the contrary, Canadians and Taiwanese enjoy a rich partnership in many fields, including health which dates back to the father of modern medicine in Taiwan, a Canadian doctor, George Leslie Mackay.

Canada's approach to this relationship today is, simply put, one based on action, not words; on substance, not symbol. I am sure any member in the House who has been to Taiwan, which I have not, will indeed willingly attest to a broad range of activities and actors which support this rich relationship, and I know many members of the House have had an opportunity to visit Taipei.

As can be expected of any bilateral relationship, neither side is fully satisfied all of the time. However we should keep in perspective the contrast between those few areas where Canadian and Taiwanese priorities may differ and the bigger picture of extensive cooperation, including in the health fields.

Let me take this opportunity to highlight just a few aspects of this cooperation.

Economically, as has been mentioned, Taiwan is one of Canada's top 10 trading partners and is our 14th largest export market worldwide. Canadian multinationals, like Bombardier, Nortel Networks and hundreds of SMEs have had significant success in Taiwan. As a result of Taipei's membership in the World Trade Organization, which Canada was active in facilitating, we have witnessed a 20% growth last year in our agricultural exports to Taiwan, totalling over $1 billion. Canadian markets have been open to Taiwan's exporters for decades and the island enjoys a healthy trade surplus with Canada, about four to one.

For both Canada and Taiwan, this is about both jobs for today and a strategic investment in our increasingly globalized future, which is why Canada's National Research Council's cooperation with Taiwan's national science council represents the NRC's largest bilateral R and D relationship outside of North America. That investment and research are just two of many threads. When it comes to people to people contacts Taiwan is one of our closest neighbours on the Pacific Rim.

Over the past 30 years, more than 110,000 Taiwanese emigrated to Canada. Annually over 100,000 Taiwanese visit Canada as tourists, short term students or to see family and friends. Canada has become a preferred destination for full time students from Taiwan.

Our policy toward Taiwan then is a balanced one consistent with those of virtually all of our like-minded allies. We have been a strong supporter of Taiwan's entry into a variety of international organizations, including the WTO and APEC. We believe Taiwan needs to be compliant with international regulations, participating in multinational trade remedy regimes and partnering with Canada in global trade liberalization as well.

As a member of the WHO, we believe our responsibility to the health of the global community goes beyond occasional meetings in Geneva. That is why the government supported a working level visit by medical experts, led by Dr. James Young, Ontario's Commissioner of Public Security, to Hong Kong, Taipei and Beijing just last week. Their visit, which included meetings with local experts as well as WHO and CDC experts on the ground, will facilitate ongoing exchange on best practices and the latest research.

Like Canada, Taiwan and many of its neighbours, including China and Hong Kong, have also been affected by SARS. Authorities in Taiwan continue to work diligently both domestically and with the international community to curtail the spread of this disease. Canadians continue to watch the development of SARS in Taiwan with concern and empathy but we are doing more than watching. The meetings held last week during the visit to Taiwan by Dr. Young and his team were an important opportunity to provide the Taiwanese people with medical and moral support. The focus of that visit and indeed the consistent focus of this government is on SARS as a global public health challenge, not a political and diplomatic one.

Taiwan should be supported in its legitimate desire to ensure the health of its citizens, and there is much we can do in this regard. The message Dr. Young delivered in Taiwan last week, in addition to the detailed information on how Toronto managed its SARS challenge, is that Taiwan is not alone in its effort and that Canada will do our part to assist Taiwan. Cooperation and support will continue to be the theme of our relationship with Taiwan in the public health sector whether there are crises like SARS or ongoing programs like the training of Taiwanese health care administrators which have already been carried out within an existing expert relationship with British Columbia.

In the field of health, just as with the rest of our unofficial relationship with Taiwan, we will continue to focus on substance rather than form. This does not mean, as members of the House have at times suggested, that we oppose Taiwan's participation in the WHO. However, under present circumstances where the WHO as a United Nations body does not allow for the kind of long term participation which Taiwan seeks, Canada will continue to act in Canadian and global health interests.

[Supply, May 26th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, I would be delighted to look at this issue with the hon. member for Richmond strictly as a health issue. However I draw to his attention some of the facts that seem to have eluded the bulk of the debate we have listened to today.

First, through the close cooperation with the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, which is a WHO collaboration centre, Taiwan has had access to the same information as others, including Canada, to deal with the SARS outbreak. It not being an observer has in no way affected its ability to deal with the outbreak. Nor has it adversely affected the health and safety of the Taiwanese.

It was very well said, in a longer period of time than I have now, by the minister this morning just exactly when and how much, and the consecutive order in which they received all of what could possibly have been accorded to a member or not.

I find it somewhat incredulous that we are standing here talking about the health issue as if it really is the driving force and to have those on the opposite side debunk the very notion that there might be a political agenda here, and I include my hon. colleague on this side of the House. I would again, as I tried to enlighten the member for Halifax, draw his attention to comments from the Taiwan Mainland Affairs Council that said today, and quoted in the Globe and Mail , that the Chinese who had offered assistance could keep their medical supplies on the mainland and that they should not interfere with Taiwan's attempts to participate in the WHO or other international organizations.

Perhaps the hon. member might wish to make reference in his response to what other international organizations Taiwan wishes to join and how that would reflect to the SARS and health issues that are the big push of today's debate.

[Supply, May 26th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, there are so many comments I would like to make but as ever, we are constrained by time. It is indeed too bad that the hon. member for Halifax was not in the House at the time that our minister spoke on this. She would have been able to apprise herself of the knowledge that the government of the republic of China--Taiwan is the name of the island and not of the government--has received all that anyone who is a member of the WHO or an observer, to discuss that in detail later, could possibly receive.

To put this in a perspective that I think she is failing to admit to, though deep down I think she knows it is the driving motivation here, may I quote Taiwan's Mainland Affairs Council in today's Globe and Mail who said that the Chinese communists should keep the medical supplies on the mainland and that if the Chinese authorities are really concerned about the Taiwanese, they should no longer interfere with Taiwan's attempts to participate in the WHO or other international organizations.

I wonder if the hon. member for Halifax could interpret for me the reference to other international organizations, or do those too relate only to the public health and safety of the people of Taiwan?

[Supply, May 26th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, I would just draw the House's attention to the fact that the hon. member made reference to finding the word Taiwan under the government website listed as a country. It is not listed as a country. It is not recognized as a country, neither by Canada, nor, might I just advise the House in case there is any further confusion, is there any country in the world today that recognizes two Chinas. I think it is important for the purposes of our debate to recall that the word Taiwan indeed refers to an island. In fact, the government on that island calls itself the Republic of China.

[Supply, May 26th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, in that regard, would the minister care to comment on the earlier comments of the hon. member across that the motion and issue of Taiwan obtaining observer status at the WHO has nothing whatsoever to do with the ambitions on the part of the Taiwanese government for sovereignty or nation state?

[Foreign Affairs, May 16th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, we all share the concern of the member opposite. The French have been approached by the United Nations to send a force to Congo. Right now we have eight members of the United Nations mission in the Democratic Republic of the Congo.

While we too have been approached by the United Nations, we have to study carefully the feasibility of such a request given our current commitments in Afghanistan and Bosnia, and in the war against terrorism. We are seriously considering the situation.

[Chief Actuary Act, May 15th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, I thought that the hon. member could connect those dots. One has to be a member of the United Nations in order to be a full observer at the World Health Organization. China being a member of the Security Council most likely would be inclined to veto such an action.

Within the context though, as the member mentioned, of Canada's one China policy and with the absence of diplomatic relations, we have had the flexibility to develop and maintain strong cultural, economic and people to people relations with Taiwan. These unofficial ties, which continue to grow, are well demonstrated by the activities of the Canadian businesses and cultural communities which form such important links.

The World Health Organization has said that it is a UN specialized agency and its constitution, i.e., that of the WHO, provides that only states are eligible for membership. Taiwan is not recognized by the United Nations credentials committee as a state. Furthermore there are no provisions in the WHO's constitution for the type of ongoing observer status sought by Taiwan.

[Chief Actuary Act, May 15th, 2003]

Madam Speaker, at the outset before addressing the arguments put forward by the hon. member, I find it rather appalling to hear him use the word contempt to describe the way the Minister of Foreign Affairs acts. Quite frankly it is beyond the nature of this man, with his experience and high regard for the committee, the work of committees and Parliament.

As far as China having a veto power, it has veto power because it is a permanent member of the Security Council, not because Canada has assigned it any veto power.

However to address the nature of the issue at hand, like Canada, Taiwan has also been affected by SARS. Authorities in Taiwan continue to work diligently, both domestically and with the international community, to curtail the spread of this disease.

The World Health Organization has indicated that there is no practical impediment to the exchange of information and cooperation between the World Health Organization and Taiwan that might threaten the health of Taiwanese in some manner. Nor would Taiwan be barred from humanitarian assistance from the WHO in the event of a medical emergency.

The WHO is indirectly cooperating with Taiwan authorities by setting up measures to curtail the spread of the disease. Its cooperation centres have sent teams to Taiwan to help resolve certain health issues.

As a member of the international community, Taiwan is currently able freely to access health information from the World Health Organization either directly from the website or through WHO's collaboration centres.

Taiwan is able to participate in a whole range of WHO health promotion programs under current circumstances. Taiwan has not been denied access to medical information and assistance that it requires.

With specific reference to the SARS outbreak, Taiwan has received assistance from the United States Centers for Disease Control, CDC, as we did in Toronto, where the World Health Organization has a collaboration centre.

Specifically, one, on March 16, 2003 the CDC, at the request of the WHO, dispatched two officials to Taiwan to assess the SARS cases. Two, information on Taiwan's reported cases of SARS have been included on the WHO's website since March 18. Three, Taiwan has the information it needs to deal with the outbreak of SARS through the CDC which is a de facto link to the World Health Organization.

Taiwan in effect has the same information as others, including Canada, to deal with the SARS outbreak. The only difference for Taiwan is that information has been provided through the CDC, a WHO collaboration centre, and not directly through the WHO. This has in no way affected Taiwan's ability to deal with this outbreak, nor has it adversely affected the health and safety of the Taiwanese.

Would that this issue were about the health and safety of the Taiwanese rather than the politically driven reason for which it is constantly brought forward.

In closing, Canada would support a formula for Taiwan's participation other than as a full member as long as this formula was in accordance with the WHO constitutional rules and procedures and had received broad based approval of WHO members.

[Kevin Cleary, May 15th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I rise today to pay homage to Mr. Kevin Cleary who died peacefully at home in Halifax on May 10, surrounded by his family after a courageous and dignified battle with cancer.

Kevin devoted over 50 years of his life to Saint Mary's University, holding positions including registrar and secretary to the senate. He retired in 1999. It is rather remarkable that the passing of Kevin Cleary coincided with this year in which Saint Mary's University celebrated its 200th anniversary; an institution to which he dedicated most of his life.

Kevin was a vital part of the university community when my brother, husband, sister, and I attended the university in the sixties. He continued to contribute to the university's growth in so many facets during the many years since.

He was a loving husband, dedicated father, caring grandfather, and a steadfast and true friend. Kevin's wisdom, laughter and loyal heart will be sadly missed by a great number of people.

[Supply, May 15th, 2003]

Mr. Speaker, I listened carefully to the member's comments, but I still have a small problem.

He says that the United States must choose other areas on which to spend their money. However, the Americans have already made their decision. Canadians certainly cannot tell the American government what its priorities should be.

The Canadian government must now ponder how it will reply. We believe that we should discuss both the process and the system with the Americans. This is their choice. As I said, they have reached a decision. Right now, we are thinking about our answer. We can choose to disregard reality, as some members said earlier, or we can take part in the negotiations to learn more about this whole project.