Mr. Speaker, I want to say to the previous speaker from the Reform Party that we do not solve any problems either by sticking our head in the sand. We had a tough decision to make. That decision was made on the basis of all the best information we had from the RCMP, from Revenue Canada, from the different provinces, from the different agencies involved. We had a tough decision to make and we made it. Unfortunately other provinces in the country have not seen fit to do it. I would suspect that in the very near future we will see a lot more come on board after recognizing the problem.
I do want to stand in support of the piece of legislation in the House today. Mr. Speaker, you know from our previous time here together that I spent a lot of time in the House talking directly about this issue. I have studied it substantially because of the make-up of my riding.
Haldimand-Norfolk has a number of tobacco farmers, probably over 800 tobacco farmers out of the 1,200 left in Canada. I also have the largest Indian reserve in the country, the Six Nations which includes a number of places that sell tobacco, over 200. It is a problem for me on both sides.
The fact of the matter is that when tobacco is smuggled my tobacco farmer constituents do not make the same amount of money because on that product they get less money for it being exported to the States. They actually get a dollar less a pound. It is a two-price system and so that product that actually is being smoked in Canada has actually been exported.
I also have on the Six Nations reserve a large number of people. I want to say to all members who might not have had an opportunity to visit reserves in the country that the overwhelming majority of people, at least on the largest reserve in the country, want to get rid of the smuggling problem.
I get more people on reserve than off in my constituency saying that we have to deal with that problem. It was very important for me to get that message out. I get a sense in the House from the other side that somehow this is just an Indian problem. It is in a sense, but it is a sense that they want to solve this problem.
That is why I was happy to see the Solicitor General take our advice on this side, sit down with native communities and try to work out solutions to this problem.
There was a time in this House when members across the way were essentially saying we have to enforce the law everywhere in the country. Let us go in shooting and we can solve this problem.
I do not think that is the solution. It is a larger problem than just enforcement. Enforcement is very important and that is why in this bill we have gone a long way to deal with the enforcement issue.
I have talked about taxation in the House as being really the only way to dramatically solve the problem, but there are other ways in which we can add to the solution. I want to go through some of the things that we have done.
We have increased customs examinations of high risk travellers. I think that is going to get a lot more smuggling than just tobacco smuggling. I think it might even help us solve our problem with the smuggling of guns and cocaine or other drugs that come into the country. We have a large border. I would suggest that over the years this problem has been a lot bigger than even we in the House talk about.
The whole question of alcohol being smuggled is only a small problem. We have guns. We have different products that are coming across our borders that need to be addressed. I think this goes a long way in helping to address those problems.
We are providing 24 hour commercial traffic clearance at 22 ports that handle 99 per cent of the commercial traffic. We are examining the service charges for off hour service at these locations. We are extending hours of service at a number of existing ports. We are conducting border blitzes that target high risk travellers and carriers.
I believe that in the bill we have gone beyond the taxation question. We have put in very needed border restrictions to make sure that we in the country control what comes into the country and we know specifically what is coming in.
The real problem we have in the country today is not as much with the smuggling but it is an acceptance by Canadians that somehow not paying their fair share of taxes, ripping off the government, is a good thing to do. Unfortunately when it starts in cigarettes it continues. Canadians have to be told that it is not only governments but their responsibility also to follow the law and make sure that they contribute to the solution to this problem.
I have never argued with the reason Canadians have been buying smuggled cigarettes. If they can get cigarettes at a cheaper price and feel that the government is not listening in terms of the taxation questions, they are going to do it. It is a question of taxation. We have to get it out of people's minds that somehow it is easy and it is natural to rip off the government by not paying taxes.
We have a $45 billion deficit. We have to attack that deficit if we are to go into the next century and compete. In order to do that people have to feel that the taxation system under which they live is a fair system.
Canadians have not felt that excise taxes on cigarettes, gasoline and alcohol have been fair taxes. As a result they have been more than willing to go around the law and do this. I think this tells Canadians that we understand these systems have been unfair and we are ready and willing to work with them to come up with real solutions.
Regarding the smuggling in the country, the only way to deal with it was to bring down the taxes. There was no other answer. In terms of the export tax on it, I have never supported an export tax. Quite frankly it is not workable. The export tax in this regard, because the provinces have come on board and because the taxes have been slashed enough, will be irrelevant. We will not be exporting that cigarette product to the United States.
Also in the bill there are exemptions for traditional exports. Those real exports that go elsewhere outside the States or the traditional ones that go to the States and are sold for consumption in the States will be protected. Tobacco farmers in my area were very pleased with that idea.
In order to solve this problem we needed to do two things. We needed to take a tough stand and we needed to bring down the taxes.
There are those who argue that somehow lowering taxes and lowering prices will let young people buy more cigarettes. I have heard many young people on television say: "Oh, good. Now I am going to have easier access to cigarettes". However that is not the case. Right now they can get cigarettes as quickly as they can buy a pizza in downtown Toronto. Cigarettes are easily obtained in school yards.
However if we put in the enforcement making sure the penalties are high for selling cigarettes to young Canadians and setting the age at a certain point, young Canadians will be protected. They will not have that access. That easy access now is through smuggled cigarettes and they get them in the school yard.
We have a good balance here. It is the balance of protecting young people from smoking, the balance of dropping the taxes so Canadians feel their taxation system is fair. At the same time there is the balance in enforcement, making sure that those who would illegally profit from this are caught. This approach will go a long way toward solving this problem.
At the same time we have taken the opportunity to sit down with Canada's first people to discuss this question with them, rather than just going in hocus-pocus with guns blazing. We are trying to work with Canadians and our aboriginal peoples to find solutions to their problems.
At the same time we are throwing a lot of people, who have been selling cigarettes granted illegally, out of work. It might be incumbent upon the government to recognize that fact. Where will they go if they are not selling cigarettes illegally? Most of these people are not the normal law breakers. Most of them are people who just want to make a buck. They did not have a job and were looking for an opportunity to make some quick cash.
This question must be raised. Not a lot of people are talking about it as it is not something that really pops up in people's minds. It is the question of making sure there is economic development on our reserves so that those people who might turn to crime because they do not have any other economic activities would have some other alternative.
