Andy Mitchell

[Supply, November 21st, 1996]

Madam Speaker, the Liberal government has and will continue to ensure through the sound fiscal management we have applied in the last three years that social programs will be sustained for the future.

It is interesting to look at the questions framed on this issue. As I said in my speech, where is the vision or where is the view? It is to the past. It is back to the good old days, whenever those were. The vision is backward. It is back there, and back there happens to be right across the way.

They do not have a plan for today. They do not have the fiscal management tools and plans we have put in place. Even worse, they do not have a vision for the future because they do not understand the fabric of Canadian society. They do not understand that Canadians recognize they are more than individuals, that we are a society of individuals, that we have a collective responsibility to each other, and that it is through government we exercise that collective responsibility, understanding both the need to be fiscally prudent and the need to exercise social responsibility.

That is what Canada is all about. That is what Canadians are all about. That is the type of government the Liberal government is bringing to the country.

[Supply, November 21st, 1996]

Madam Speaker, the government has done a good job on its fiscal responsibility. It has made the reductions that were necessary. It has reduced the deficit without having to raise personal income tax rates.

In stepping up to that fiscal responsibility, something the government had not done for 10 years prior to this party coming to power, we understood we had a social responsibility to Canadians, a responsibility to make sure that when individuals go to hospital they are not first asked how much money they have or, if we were to follow the Reform plan, which insurance company they are insured with. That is not what Canadians are asked when they go to a hospital today. They are asked how sick they are and how they can be helped.

That is the kind of nation we have been able to form because we understand that government has a dual responsibility. We understand the government has a fiscal responsibility to ensure that each and every taxpayer's dollar is spent in the most efficient manner. We have been doing that as a government. The results are there for everybody to see. The 94 per cent of Canadians who do not support the party opposite understand that. At the same time we understand our social responsibility to individual Canadians and the basic fabric of this nation that is Canada.

[Supply, November 21st, 1996]

Madam Speaker, I particularly appreciate the last comment from the member when he pointed out that public health care was put in place by a Liberal government. He is darned right it was put in place by a Liberal government and maintained by the Liberal government all of these years because Canadians wanted it.

The member opposite pointed out something that is very important, something Canadians understand and, most important, something the Liberal government understands: that as a government we have two responsibilities and not just the one of fiscal responsibility the Reform talks about all the time.

Our record on the fiscal side has been one of achievement. The deficit has been reduced. When the budgetary plan of the Minister of Finance flows out it will have been reduced 80 per cent. We will reach a point with the latest budget plan where we will no longer need to borrow. It will be the first time in 30 years we have been able to do that. There have been a 21 per cent reduction in departmental spending and a 14 per cent reduction in program spending.

[Supply, November 21st, 1996]

I never said that.

[Supply, November 21st, 1996]

Come on across.

[Supply, November 21st, 1996]

A good word for it.

The party opposite suggests that some things be done for Canadian families. Reform will reduce our support of health care so we will only fund core health care services. This means individuals will need supplementary private medical insurance to supplement that core.

Reformers would make changes to the EI program and have talked about eliminating parental leave. That is hardly a policy that supports family. They will eliminate the Canada pension plan. They want to replace it with RRSPs. Again individuals will have to buy into their own plans. It seems the people who will be helped by this will be the banks and insurance companies that sell RRSPs and private insurance. Perhaps they are the beneficiaries.

I agree with the party across the way that low income families will get tax cuts. That is absolutely right. However high income families will get even bigger tax cuts, and that is not the way we work in this country. When we have limited financial resources we make sure Canadians who need the help most receive the most help.

Several times in today's debate we have heard members opposite hark back to the good old days of the fifties and sixties. That speaks volumes. It shows the Reform Party looks to the past. It is not capable of handling the present and certainly has no vision for the future.

More than that, it shows the Reform Party does not understand the basic fabric of Canada. It does not understand that we are more than individuals, that we are more than just small islands unto ourselves, or that Canadians form a society. For 50 years we have recognized that we have a collective responsibility to each other, that one Canadian helps another Canadian who helps another Canadian, and that we have the vehicles in government to allow that to happen.

That is why Canadians support an old age security system paid for by general tax revenue. That is why they support a public pension plan so the wealthiest Canadians are not the only ones who can afford a pension. That is why Canadians support public health care, to ensure every Canadian has an opportunity for health care and not just the wealthy.

That is what the fabric of Canada is about. That is what Canadians support and that is why Canadians elected a Liberal government and will elect a Liberal government again.

[Supply, November 21st, 1996]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the opportunity to rise in debate on this motion by the third party.

We can probably begin the debate by certainly agreeing that everybody in this House and indeed every Canadian in the land would support the concept that we need to help children in Canadian society. I do not think anybody would disagree with that. However the way that the Reform Party has made this suggestion does not totally provide all of the facts and ramifications to the Canadian people. It is important that we do just that.

First of all, the actual concept of how this would work is not spelled out either in the resolution nor is it spelled out that I can see in the Reform's particular plan. Reform talked about it being turned into a tax credit. Is it an equivalent tax credit or is it a tax credit for the amount of the deduction? They are not clear about that and it makes a tremendous amount of difference on the economic impact of this item.

Is it going to be a refundable or non-refundable tax credit? Again not only is that an important concept in terms of the fiscal ramifications but the way Reform is planning to work this socially makes a big difference on whether it is refundable or non-refundable.

Regardless of which way the Reform come at it, and to be fair to the Canadian people they ought to be saying which way they want to approach this, this is going to be a tremendous cost to the Canadian taxpayer. Estimates I have received from various sources range from $1 billion up to $12 billion. I think that $5 billion to put this plan in place is probably a pretty good bet. Is it worth $5 billion? Perhaps, but what the Reform Party fails to tell us in the House and Canadians in general is where it is going to get that $5 billion. What will Reform cut? What is Reform going to take it away from? How is it going to fund this?

The Reform Party talks about honesty and integrity in government, yet it makes a major proposal like this one and it does not clearly identify where that money is going to come from. Reform ought to do that. I will get to Reform's green book in just a minute.

The expanded plan is going to deal with 25 per cent of Canadian families. Those families have a need and a requirement as do all families in Canada. I have a lot of difficulty when we are putting in a program like this one. We could very well be introducing it for-and I have often heard this expression before-these millionaires who would be able to get tax breaks and so on. There are going to be those individuals who will benefit from it.

The Reform Party should agree and I think most Canadians would agree that in a time of limited financial resources we should use those resources for those Canadians who need it most. That is why we have a tax system with a child tax benefit built into it which that. It helps those Canadians who need it most. Quite frankly we should not be surprised that the Reform Party's proposal is not well costed or does not make a lot of economic sense. This is evident when we look at its overall economic policy and the suggestions in its new fresh start.

In summary, the fresh start proposal suggests cutting taxes, putting $4 billion of new money into health care and balancing the budget. They will do all this at the same time, starting with the $24 billion deficit we have today. That is the basis of what Reformers are trying to sell to the Canadian people. However Canadian people know and basic math tells them that it will not to work.

[Petitions, November 18th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, the second petition asks Parliament to pass legislation to ensure that no criminal can profit from their criminal activity.

[Petitions, November 18th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to present two petitions today. The first petition deals with a request to Parliament to increase the penalty for drinking and driving.

[Committees Of The House, November 18th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I have the honour to present, in both official languages, the second report of the Standing Committee on Natural Resources entitled "Streamlining Environmental Regulation for Mining: Final Report", an interim report having been tabled in December 1995.

The report reiterates the government's commitment to protection of the environment and suggests a number of initiatives to encourage mining investment through greater regulatory clarity, certainty and efficiency.

Pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee requests that the government table a comprehensive response thereto within 150 days.