Monte Solberg

[Taxation, April 23rd, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, the member knows that the Liberals ran on the promise to scrap the GST. That is the only reason many of them are here today. Not only that, they fought the Mulroney-Wilson plan to hide the GST. They called it a job killer. Now the revenue minister is saying it is a job creator. They laughed at the Tory attempt to harmonize the GST. The member for York South-Weston was right: power does change people.

If the GST was bad then, why is it not bad now? Are the Liberals saying that Brian Mulroney was right?

[Taxation, April 23rd, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, the government's harmonization agreement is a half-baked national embarrassment. It is no wonder that the member for Broadview-Greenwood decided to take the high dive from the Liberal caucus.

Not only does this agreement take $1 billion from the many to give to a few Liberal politicians-and I notice that Brian Tobin is here to get his hands on the spoils today-it obviously breaks the Liberal promise to scrap, kill and abolish the GST.

Why is the government laughing in the face of voters by failing to fulfil its promise to scrap the GST?

[Sales Tax, April 23rd, 1996]

The Secretary of State for Financial Institutions is pointing at me, saying that it is not true. I invite him to ask the human resources development minister because it was through his department that the bankers association, after the banks made profits of $5.1 billion dollars, received $105,000 for training. How does the hon. member respond to that? I invite him to check his facts and he will find out it is true.

What happened in the Constitution? The government said we should treat certain areas differently. It said it believes in distinct society. It is in favour of granting special status to certain people. We see over and over again how it treats people through its multiculturalism policy; again, special treatment. We simply cannot accept that.

With regard to matters of taxation the same principle must apply. People must be treated equally. We cannot have seven provinces supporting three, or six provinces supporting four, whatever it comes down to. It is absolutely ridiculous.

We have no problem with equalization payments. If provinces want to get on board and support other provinces because they got the short end of the stick over a period of time because of mismanagement by the government, let us support them through equalization.

Do we always have to come up with ever new programs for a few provinces to support the many and at the expense of some people to support other people? That is fundamentally wrong. Not to mention we already have a debt of $580 billion. The Liberals may argue they will not tax people more, they will just borrow it. We already have a debt of $580 billion, so I suggest it is not a very good option. We have to get this mess under control.

I will talk for a moment about some of the particulars of this agreement. The government is to kick over a billion dollars. However, it is not said how it will come up with the money for the other provinces if it does propose to treat all provinces equally.

The province of Ontario would require between $2 billion and $3 billion in order to get the same sort of deal as the Atlantic provinces. Where is the money to come from? Will we ask people in Atlantic Canada to come up with that money? What about the money for Saskatchewan and Manitoba? What about the money for British Columbia? I suggest that will not be an issue because all of those provinces have said it is a non-starter, it will not even happen because the federal government will not come up with the money. Besides, they do not like the overall deal.

The premier of Saskatchewan has pointed out that federal government typically invites you in with a carrot. It gives money at the beginning and then it abandons you and leaves you high and dry. If people deny that, I invite them to look at the mess our health care system is in today. The federal government started out by funding it at 50 per cent and it is now down to 22 per cent. There is a long legacy from successive Conservative and Liberal governments where they get us on board with taxpayer money and then leave us high and dry.

It was the finance minister who, when running for the leadership of the Liberal Party, said harmonization means forever. He said that once taxes were harmonized it would be very difficult to get rid of the GST again. What is he saying to people? Is he saying we should give up on the idea of having lower taxes? Should we give up on getting rid of the most hated tax in Canadian history? Is he saying we must permanently weld into place the most hated tax in Canadian history? By signing these agreements, that is exactly what has happened.

There is another way we can lower taxes. In Ontario, Manitoba and Alberta today there are debates about lower taxes.

We can have lower taxes but the only way of doing it is to balance the budget, and the government cannot get that through its thick head. It goes on and on about how we should streamline and change the administration of the GST.

I say get rid of the GST. The best way and the only way to do that is to balance the budget, eliminate it over a period of time, give Canadians the tax break they so richly deserve instead of going back to them over and over again to gouge more money from them.

The hon. member across the way looks perplexed. Gouge? What can that mean? What does he mean by gouge? Since the hon. members across the way came to power they have taken $8.8 billion from Canadians. That is unbelievable. That is $650 per taxpayer.

The hon. members across the way are wondering how could that happen. All those tax measures, all those revenue measures, all those tax increases were hidden. That is precisely what the government is proposing to do with the GST in Atlantic Canada. It is proposing to hid it so it can push through even more tax increases.

Look at all the revenue measures that have gone through the last couple of years, all hidden. All the excise tax increases, all hidden. It is simply trying to come up with creative new ways to tax people more, and if they doubt that I invite people to simply look at the record of the government. It is despicable. It is simply following along the same lines as the Conservatives.

Between 1993 and 1998 revenues for this government will go up $25 billion, the same amount as the deficit will decrease. In other words, it is exacting all of the decrease in the deficit out of the pockets of taxpayers, and that is unbelievable.

To the member across the way, check your figures. It is a fact and the hon. member knows it. He sits on the finance committee and he knows that to be a fact. We do not want different taxes, we want lower taxes, and Canadians deserve lower taxes.

The provinces have lead the way. It is possible with a bit of resolve and a bit of will. If they set their priorities they can balance the budget. Setting priorities is something this government has not done. So far it has managed to preserve spending for special interest. It has preserved spending for its friends in big business. As I pointed out to the hon. member, it does not mind giving $105,000 to the Canadian Bankers Association.

The hon. member knows we had representations from big business across the country, saying not to subsidize businesses anymore. What does the government do? It continues to subsidize businesses year after year while cutting health care by $3.2 billion, by cutting higher education by $1.2 billion. It is going after the wrong things. We could have a balanced budget if it got its priorities straight and did not bury its head in the sand and deny there is a problem. There is a very serious problem.

I am not the only one concerned about this harmonization deal, nor is it only members of my party. I want to talk about what some of the interest groups are saying, those the minister invited to come forward so he could lobby them to come on side. So far they have not come on side.

Catherine Swift, president of the Canadian Federation of Independent Business, said Ontario has to be brought on board to make harmonization worthwhile. The province, with 40 per cent of the national economy, says Ottawa's plan would cost residents $2 billion annually and has refused to co-operate in harmonization. Catherine Swift said: "If Ontario does not go and we end up with a half-hearted harmonization for the next 10 years that is pretty problematic".

The Canadian Chamber of Commerce is a big booster of harmonization, but even it has reservations. Sharon Glover, the group's senior vice-president of government relations, said she is concerned the finance minister will require the GST to be folded into the price tag on goods: "Hidden taxes are too easy to raise and they promote distrust among consumers". Frankly, I think consumers have a right to be a little distrustful of the government.

There have been reports that the GST and the new national sales tax would be included in prices but broken down separately on cash register receipts. Of course that was confirmed by the minister this

morning. The point is even the groups the hon. members from across the way say are supportive of this harmonization agreement are not, and there are the facts to prove it.

Canadians want a country in which MPs are free to come to the House of Commons to represent their constituents. That is basic. It is not being unreasonable. Canadians deserve to be represented by their members of Parliament. What the government did in throwing out the member for York South-Weston and in essentially forcing out the member for Broadview-Greenwood because he was too principled to sit among the rabble across the way was reprehensible. The government has trampled on democracy.

I cannot believe the Prime Minister invoked the name of the British Parliament the other day. Edmund Burke and John Locke would be spinning in their graves if they heard those comments coming from the Prime Minister in trying to defend his heavy handedness.

Canadians across the country want a government which keeps its promises. Canadians want a government which, when it says it will scrap the GST, will do it. They expect the Liberal members of Parliament to actually follow through and do that. They must be sorrily disappointed. They must be very cynical about what has happened across the way.

The finance minister's implied apology at the beginning of his speech today suggests they are feeling the pressure. Perhaps there is a little tweak of conscience across the way. That is good. It is nice to see that finally their conscience is catching up with them.

What Canadians want are not different taxes; they want lower taxes. Canadians from coast to coast have suffered under successive Liberal and Conservative regimes which have raised taxes and failed to deal with the debt problem. Every time they raise money, they immediately spend it. That is absolutely unacceptable. Canadians deserve a tax break. The only way that can happen is if the budget is balanced, but the government refuses to announce a date by which it will balance the budget.

The government is hiding the GST in the new deal. It will continue to tax Canadians to death by stealth, as it has done so often since coming to power. There have been 22 tax measures and revenue measures since it has come to power, taking $8.8 billion out of the economy. That represents $650 per taxpayer. That is ridiculous. No wonder we have not had an improvement in our lifestyle, our disposable income since 1980.

Canadians want to save enough for their future. Canadians want to save enough so they can send their children off to university. They want to have money they can retire on. They want to have money they can start businesses with. However, when the government talks only about changing taxes instead of lowering taxes, none of that can happen.

I urge the government to forget this bogus harmonization idea and fulfill its promise by eliminating the deficit and moving immediately to start the process of eliminating the GST.

[Sales Tax, April 23rd, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I am completely unwilling to concede that paying $1 billion to harmonize the GST in Atlantic Canada is what was promised during the last election campaign. Even the finance minister's weak mea culpa, his tacit admission that although the Liberals were not fulfilling their promise, they were taking a step toward it, is

inadequate. What they promised was that they would scrap the GST, they would kill it, they would abolish it. That is whatthey said.

The finance minister went to some lengths to read from the red book. I am going to do some reading of my own right now. Although what he read from the red book was accurate, I point out that 80,000 copies came out one month before the election. What was said on national television, what was said for five years leading up to the election and what was said on doorsteps across the country by Liberal members was completely different.

I remind my hon. friends across the way what was said. Here is a quote from the Edmonton Journal dated March 1990: ``The Liberal Party would scrap the GST, the current human resources development minister pledged in a nationally televised debate on Monday with finance minister Michael Wilson. The goods and services tax is a regressive tax, he said. It has to be scrapped and we will scrap it''.

Listen to this statement from the Montreal Gazette in 1990: ``I would abolish the GST''. That is what the current finance minister said, as quoted in the newspaper.

Listen to this statement by the Prime Minister. He said: "I want the tax dead". That is a quote in the Montreal Gazette in 1990.

I have another one from 1990. "The Liberals will scrap the goods and services tax if they win the next general election," the current Prime Minister says. "I am opposed to the GST. I have always been opposed to it and I will be opposed to it always".

The finance minister can quote from the red book, which was hidden during the election campaign, but the fact of the matter is that he, the Prime Minister and certainly the Deputy Prime Minister made all kinds of commitments that the GST would be gone.

I have a couple more quotes from the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister. In 1991 the Prime Minister said: "I say we will replace the tax. That is a commitment you will judge me by". It is still not replaced.

I now point to the big promise of October 18, 1993: "If the GST is not abolished under a Liberal government I will resign". That was stated by the Deputy Prime Minister appearing on a CBC TV electronic town hall meeting one week before the election campaign.

The Deputy Prime Minister is still with us. Unbelievably she sits glued to her chair in question period day after day when the government is questioned about why it is that she has not fulfilled her promise to resign. She can turn around and throw darts at members like the member for York South-Weston or the member for Broadview-Greenwood who had the nerve to stand up and support their constituents. However, she sits glued to her chair hoping against hope that somehow her constituents will forget that solemn promise. I can guarantee this House that they will not.

Members across the way do not have to accept my word for this. They can accept the words of their own members. I am not talking just about the members who were thrown out of their caucus or the member who quit on the basis of his own principles. I am talking about other members as well. The member from Mississauga has talked repeatedly about how the government has failed to fulfil its commitment on the GST. The member for Ontario has also been quoted in the media about the government's failure to fulfil its commitment to scrap, abolish and kill the GST. I am not the one who making these arguments. Members across the way have made these arguments very well.

It speaks volumes when members believe so strongly that a commitment was made to scrap the GST that they are willing to put their jobs on the line. That is exactly what happened when the member for York South-Weston very courageously stood and voted against the budget. He saw that the commitment to scrap the GST which had been promised the previous summer was not in the budget. He stood up for his constituents and what happened? He was thrown out of caucus. He was mocked by the Deputy Prime Minister and by the people who used to be his friends. I cannot believe that. He stood up for his constituents. He stood up for Canadians around the country who believe that the government promised to scrap the GST. We applaud him for that. That says something about how widely that promise was made and how many members made it.

Those promises were made all across the country. I am happy to see that the member for York South-Weston stood up for his constituents even if he was ultimately punished by a meanspirited government that simply will not tolerate any semblance of democracy in this place.

Yesterday in question period the Prime Minister talked about the British parliamentary model. He said that according to British parliamentary tradition the Liberals had to throw the member out. That is ridiculous and the Prime Minister knows it. Over the past 20 years members, the British Parliament has defeated 65 money bills and other specific pieces of legislation. In the Canadian system such actions would have brought down the government.

If government members in our system vote against the government, they will be out on their ears. They will be kicked off their committees. They will be punished, which is ridiculous.

If we cannot have democracy in the House of Commons we cannot have democracy anywhere in the country. If we are not allowed to express ourselves freely here, where can we express

ourselves freely? Where is the mouthpiece of the people? Can the people not be represented in this place?

Why does the Prime Minister bring down the iron fist of discipline time after time when he has a chance to let people speak freely and express the wishes of their constituents? He is the most dictatorial Prime Minister we have seen in this country, bar none. I believe that to be a fact and I challenge hon. members across the way to stand and debate that point because it is a fact.

Canadians will not soon forget what the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister by her silence did to the members across the way. I expect other hon. members to stand and defend those members who allowed them to benefit from the promises they made during the campaign. The government was elected on the promise to scrap the GST. Now only two members are paying the price for the government's failure to fulfil that commitment. That is simply wrong. They are the scapegoats.

Let us set aside the fact that harmonization, or this very tepid step toward harmonization, was a breaking of a Liberal promise. Let us speak of the agreement itself. The provinces did not ask for harmonization. That is a fact. The federal government in an effort to save face approached the provinces. It was rejected by the provinces because it could not make harmonization work in a way that made sense to the provinces.

What did the government do? It decided to sweeten the pot. It decided it would kick in $1 billion so three provinces, possibly four, would sign on. Is that fair? What does it mean? It means that people in my riding, the farmer in Bow Island, Alberta, the fisherman in Campbell River, British Columbia, and the line worker in Windsor, Ontario will have to dig into their pockets, come up with some more tax money for the government so it can give it to people in Atlantic Canada.

What ever happened to equal treatment? I see the hon. member from Toronto talking. People in Toronto will have to come up with more money to support people in Atlantic Canada, $1 billion more. How fair is that?

One of the problems we have in this country is that this government has gone to such great lengths to treat people differently. Our party believes in equal treatment. We believe all Canadians should be treated equally. We believe all provinces should be treated equally. This government has bent over backwards to ensure it hands out privileges to certain groups, certain areas of the country and certain people. It has done it time and time again.

I talked in the House last week about the fact that the government handed over $105,000 to the Canadian Bankers Association. That is absolutely ridiculous. It is another example of how the government treats certain groups differently and specially.

[Goods And Services Tax, April 22nd, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, the Prime Minister would not know parliamentary democracy if he grabbed it by the throat. That is a fact.

A few years ago former Prime Minister Brian Mulroney kicked an MP out of caucus for voting according to their constituents' wishes. At that time the current Prime Minister welcomed that principled member into his own caucus. What a great irony. The Prime Minister said they would be a lot better than the hated Tories. What a farce that turned out to be.

Why oh why is the Prime Minister breaking his promise on the GST and parliamentary reform and why is it not the Deputy Prime Minister being forced to resign instead of the member for York South-Weston?

[Goods And Services Tax, April 22nd, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, why has the Prime Minister flagrantly broken his promise to bring about parliamentary reform?

[Goods And Services Tax, April 22nd, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, this is absolutely unbelievable. By sacrificing a caucus member because he had the nerve to hold the Prime Minister accountable for his own promise to kill the GST, the Prime Minister has made a mockery of parliamentary democracy and a mockery of this place.

The Prime Minister has betrayed the member for York South-Weston, who was only attempting to hold him accountable and give him a chance to fulfil his promises and the principles he ran on and won the election on. That is a fact.

Why has the Prime Minister abandoned the promise to bring about parliamentary reform?

[Goods And Services Tax, April 18th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I do not know how the finance minister expects Canadians to believe that when his own caucus does not even believe it. That is why it is voting against him.

The finance minister knows there are many Liberals in the government who would not be sitting where they are today if they had not promised their faces off that the GST would be gone under a Liberal government.

Why does the finance minister not just ask for the public's forgiveness and admit the Liberals made a promise they knew they could not possibly meet?

[Goods And Services Tax, April 18th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, the GST issue has come to a head.

During the election the Liberals campaigned up and down streets promising that if they were elected the GST would meet its end. That was then, this is now.

I want the finance minister to make something very clear for Canadians and for the House. Was it his position that when they were campaigning on doorsteps around the country they were telling Canadians that if elected they would spend $1 billion to permanently weld into place the most hated tax in Canadian history by integrating it with the sales taxes of the Atlantic provinces? Is that what he expects Canadians to believe?

[Bank Act, April 17th, 1996]

Mr. Speaker, I think the hon. member sells the public short on this issue. People buy all kinds of insurance for all kinds of reasons every day. I do not think the hon. member is saying that the public is too dumb to figure out insurance on their automobile or their homes or anything else. At least I hope he is not saying that.

The fact is that people make very sophisticated investments every day ranging from investing in the stock market where they certainly have to judge risk to investing in mutual funds. We have seen a tremendous growth in the investments in mutual funds. People are very well acquainted with the risk of investing in those things.

The member is selling the public short on this whole issue. The public has a very good idea of exactly what they would be getting into and are quite capable of understanding co-insurance. The Public Interest Advocacy Centre is a supporter of co-insurance. The public is very well acquainted with insurance and with putting money into investments that carry an element of risk. The member is way off base by making that judgment about the ability of the public to understand.