Gurmant Grewal

[An Act to Amend the Criminal Code (Cruelty to Animals and Firearms) and the Firearms Act, April 11th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I fully condone the sentiments expressed by my hon. colleague. He worked hard on the bill to cover a diverse range of issues and answered the technical, tough question asked by another colleague.

This particular bill is very compassionate because we have to deal with those who cannot defend themselves, the animals with which human beings have had a relationship for a very long time. We have been cohabitating with animals for such a long time that animals' rights, bioethics and those things are becoming important to the civilized society we live in.

The welfare of animals completely depends on the human race. We have a sort of symbiotic relationship with many species of animals. When we domesticate animals we have an emotional respect for our pets.

However, sometimes it is very difficult to draw a line when we look at the professionalism of working animals and those kinds of things. It is a different issue for some people if we look at the different aspects of dealing with animals, for example the transporting of animals. When we transport chickens they are crowded and hungry for long periods of time. Their conditions are so adverse that I received a letter from one of my constituents saying that chickens were flying out of the truck because they were not properly transported.

Similarly there are other ethical concerns such as the pornographic issue of animals having sexual acts with animals. It is very difficult to draw a line between bioethics, harassment and cruelty to animals.

I would like to ask my hon. colleague if he could throw some light on the harassment, cruelty or offensive types of human behaviour toward animals.

[An Act to Amend the Criminal Code (Cruelty to Animals and Firearms) and the Firearms Act, April 11th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I highly appreciate the depth of knowledge the hon. member has shown in regard to the bill. As a medical doctor, he has a great deal of knowledge about the use of animal tissues.

He also highlighted his views on ethical concerns about branding animals and dehorning animals. I have a degree in agriculture with a specialization in animal sciences. I understand where the member is coming from and I thoroughly appreciate his views. I would like to know how the member, as a surgeon, feels about scientific and experimental use of research animals. I would like to hear his ideas. Most of the scientific development of the last few years has taken place because of investment in research and development.

How does the member compromise his views on scientific research and the experimental aspect of animals and distinguish that from the ethical aspect of animals being used in research and experiments?

[Whistleblowing, April 11th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, Corporal Robert Read, a 26 year RCMP veteran, is being fired from his job tomorrow for blowing the whistle after he found evidence of suspected wrongdoing related to serious security breaches, infiltration of the immigration computer system, corruption, fraud, bribes, abuse and cover-up in Canada's foreign office in Hong Kong.

He reported it to his superiors who shut down the investigation and attempted to cover it up. Then he reported it to the RCMP ethics commissioner, the public complaints commission and the auditor general. After five years the issue was still not addressed so he reported it to the media.

The auditor general's 2000 report confirmed that proper security controls do not exist at Canada's foreign posts.

The Liberals have not only failed to keep their election promises of legislating a mechanism for whistleblowers and offering impartial hearings but they have punished whistleblowers one after the other.

We know the solicitor general will not award a medal to Corporal Robert Read but will he at least ensure that this whistleblower will not be fired so that the wrong message will not be sent to potential whistleblowers?

[The Middle East, April 9th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise on behalf of the constituents of Surrey—Central to participate in the debate on the grave situation in the Middle East.

The hon. members for Coquihalla—Okanagan, Edmonton—Strathcona and Esquimalt—Juan de Fuca have all spoken on this issue with grave concerns. I will not repeat what they have said but I strongly support what they have already said.

Before I venture into details and the more serious content of my speech let me use the toughest words in the toughest context to condemn violence by suicide bombers and other sympathizers of Palestine. I strongly condemn any form of terrorism as does every Canadian. Let me also condemn in equally tough words the violence by the armed forces of the State of Israel.

Violence has no place in civilized society. Violence cannot be ended by another form of violence. Injuring, maiming or killing innocent civilians, children and women should not be tolerated by the humane society of the so called global village. Human rights of innocent people must be respected at any cost.

I am one of the few members in the House who had the opportunity to visit the current conflict area. I visited Israel, Jerusalem, East Jerusalem and Bethlehem. In Palestine I visited Ramallah, West Bank, Erez, Ramaha and Gaza. I have also driven to Jordan.

I visited refugee camps in Palestine and Jordan and have spoken to a number of officials, volunteers, residents and refugees. I have spoken to refugees who have been temporarily living in refugee homes for about half a century under deplorable conditions. Their children are not able to go to schools, the sick are not able to get health care and the hungry could not even get food, clothing and shelter.

I have seen with disappointment the shouting fence at the border of Gaza and Egypt where about 900 family members remained separated for about half a century. The international community has neglected to rejoin those separated families. The father and son are on one side and the mother and daughter are on the other side of the fence. They call it the shouting fence because two fences are separated by a road about 60 or 70 feet wide and they yell to communicate with each other since there are no other means of communicating. The international community has been watching 900 hundred families that have been separated for half a century.

The unemployment rate in the Palestine controlled territory has been about 85%. Roads or other infrastructure is either non-existent or in very poor condition. After my visit I predicted dire consequences from the neglect, absence of preventive diplomacy and the will to actively prevent or resolve the conflict and the double standards applied by the international community in that region.

Though it is late the conflict can and must be ended. It can be resolved rather than left to a point where the region is more polarized. Religion becomes a serious and major element of conflict. It is already there and terrorism becomes sporadic and systemic in this civilized society and a threat never seen before.

In the recent conflict suicide bombings have been devastating, killing and affecting innocent people. They have caused suffering to innocent families in buses, coffee shops, restaurants, shopping malls and any other gathering place.

The attacks and incursions by Israelis, killing and affecting innocent people, attacking hospitals, denying suffering innocents the medical essentials, damaging ambulances, and destroying homes and properties, are not fair and just.

Canadians are a peace loving people and have been peacemakers and peacekeepers of the world but that influence is fading. Let us see what Canada has done or what Canada's interests are. Through CIDA Canada provides $10 million foreign aid to the Palestinian authority per year, mostly through UN relief agencies, the World Bank and humanitarian aid. This aid could be used as a lever for pressuring an end to violence.

However let us look at the unofficial figures that are not given by the ministry of foreign affairs. In 1994-95 Canada committed $55 million in foreign aid to Palestinians in that region. By 1998 Canada had already spent $136 million, basically misdirected foreign aid. That is more than triple the amount that Canada committed. I have seen the details of the $136 million. I was surprised to see that most of the money has been spent on cultural functions, organizing seminars, and those kinds of things, $25,000 for one seminar and $20,000 for another seminar.

Trade is not an important element even though Canada has a free trade agreement with Israel that was signed in 1996 and a similar pact with the Palestinian authority signed in 1999. Trade with Israel is about $1 billion and about $1.5 million with the Palestinian authority.

Canada has about 228 soldiers stationed in the region, some 190 with the UN force in the Golan Heights, 30 with a multinational force in Sinai, and eight personnel serve with the UN truce supervision mission in Jerusalem. Their fate and safety are not assured. Canadian forces are overstretched and not able to play a major role in the Middle East peacekeeping mission. Canada cannot exercise meaningful political leadership. This is not a realistic option in that region.

The United Nations is also weak in this crisis. It is not well placed to deal with the kind of terrorist violence that has undermined the peace negotiations. The United Nations can only pass resolutions such as 1402. Only the United States of America has political clout and weight. The United States of America gives about $3 billion to Israel per year. The U.S. can force both parties to come to the negotiating table.

Canada firmly supports the Israel-PLO peace agreement signed on September 13, 1993. This agreement should become a comprehensive agreement based on UN security council resolutions 242 and 338. It seems, perhaps due to double standards, that these resolutions have never been applied.

Not only has the requirement for Israeli withdrawal from territories occupied in 1967 not occurred, but Israel has also annexed the eastern part of Jerusalem which was taken from Jordan in 1967 and the Golan Heights seized from Syria in 1967. These annexations and the movement of Israeli civilians into these territories are not and should not be recognized by the international community. The international community has to be fair and just.

Canada does not recognize permanent Israeli control over the territories occupied in 1967 and opposes all unilateral actions intended to predetermine the outcome of negotiations. Canada considers such actions to be contrary to international law and unproductive to the peace process. Canada recognizes that the legitimate rights of Palestinians must be realized, including the right to self-determination to be exercised through peace negotiations.

So what can Canada do? Unfortunately Canada does not have much influence except to support the U.S. led peace mission. We can end fundraising by groups like Hezbollah.

What can the international community do? I give the analogy of a domestic pressure cooker. When heat is burning under the pressure cooker steam is produced. If people do not want steam it can be contained by the weight of the pressure cooker. There is always an escape valve. If we do not want steam to be produced, what must be done? The international community must remove the heat that is burning under the pressure cooker so no pressure is required and no steam is produced. That is what the international community must do to recognize and identify the causes of terrorism and violence in that area. That is what we must do.

[Taxation, March 15th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, yesterday in response to a question regarding the government's latest cash grab on blank CDs and MP3 players, the minister of heritage said the Liberals support copyright.

She must have problems with her memory. Her short term memory failed her when she forgot how the former health minister totally bypassed Bayer's patent for Cipro to help out Apotex, a company he had represented as legal counsel. Her medium term memory failed her when she forgot how she dropped the ball on the MMT file in 1998 and triggered a $13 million lawsuit by MMT's patent holder, Ethyl Corporation, under chapter 11 of NAFTA. Her long term memory must not fail her since she flip-flopped on the GST, is infamous for spending taxpayers' money, and is now making a nice try to rake in money on CDs and MP3 players.

What an MP she is. She does not care that intellectual property only applies to original ideas.

[Criminal Code, March 14th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I thank all members of parliament who have spoken to the motion. Most of them have supported the motion except for members on the government side. I take this opportunity to commend all those brave men and women, our firefighters, who are protecting persons and properties while putting their lives at risk. I also take this opportunity to commend them for the good work they do for all of us.

The motion simply asks for a deterrence by changing the criminal code. The idea was that arson fires have been on the rise. Booby traps have been set which injure or kill firefighters. There should be repercussions for that. They should not get away with it. Putting a deterrent in place is a common sense matter. I am surprised that it did not happen.

Certainly this motion would have gone a long way by codifying the intent. After the tragic events of September 11 this would have been an opportunity to protect our firefighters from the risks they are taking.

We heard from government members about the constitutional legal beagles or mens rea. I am a little disappointed. Sometimes we are involved too much in it. We leave our eyes on the broader picture of the real issues. However going into the area of legal beagles creates a problem. I call it constitutional constipation of the charter of rights or charter constipation. It inhibits the real work needed in all they communities they serve and work.

It is purely out of goodness, out of respect, out of courtesy, out of responsibility, out of obligation, or even fiduciary responsibility and duty that we need to protect those people who are putting their lives at risk by protecting persons and properties. I regret the government chose not to support this issue.

I have spoken much more often than any other member in the House on private members' business. I am disappointed that private members' business does not go far enough. It is simply a joke, an affront to democracy. I consider private members' business like a pacifier being given to a baby so that the baby does not cry. The baby keeps on sucking it but nothing comes out of it.

All members of the House work very hard on private members' business. When an item is not votable, it is like a pacifier being given to members to shut them up. It does not go far enough.

I urge members of the House to give unanimous consent and recommend that Motion No. 376, as others members have recommended, go to the justice committee so that the committee can study it.

I ask for unanimous consent that the motion on which I have worked so hard and which I have passionately debated on behalf of thousands of firefighters who are serving our communities at least goes to the justice committee.

[Criminal Code, March 14th, 2002]

moved:

That, in the opinion of this House, the government should amend Section 231(4) of the Criminal Code to expand the definition of first-degree murder to include the death of a fire fighter acting in the line of duty, and amend Section 433 of the Criminal Code dealing with the crime of arson by adding language that addresses the death or injury of a fire fighter engaged in combating a fire or explosion that is deliberately set.

Madam Speaker, it is a very great pleasure to rise in the House this evening not only on behalf of my constituents in Surrey Central, but also on behalf of all of Canada's brave firefighters.

I want to thank the hon. member for Lethbridge for seconding my motion. He himself is a former firefighter.

Everyone recognizes that firefighters play an important role in Canadian society, protecting persons and property as they rescue their fellow citizens and extinguish fires. We were all saddened by the recent deaths of six children killed in a fire on Vancouver Island. Firefighters could not reach the site of the tragedy for over one and a half hour. It was very sad.

Furthermore, we all acknowledge that firefighting is a hazardous occupation with the inherent risk of injury or death. Firefighting is four times as hazardous as any other occupation but commands the highest public trust, more than any other profession.

The number of deaths and injuries sustained by firefighters continue to rise and the human wreckage left behind is also real. When such casualties are the result of either deliberate action or carelessness on the part of members of the public, a true tragedy occurs.

There were 13,724 arson fires in Canada last year. I was really alarmed to learn that over 30% of the fires in Surrey are the result of arson. A very high percentage of them contain booby traps. There have been arson fires in schools and fiery explosions in residential neighbourhoods.

These fires are disturbing. Some are caused purely by mischief, but many more have been set with more sinister intentions of covering up illegal activities like marijuana growing or metamphetamine labs. At other times firefighters respond to calls only to find the premises booby trapped with crossbows, propane canisters ready to explode, cutaway floor boards or other serious but intentional hazards. These malicious devices are intended to kill or injure anyone who interferes with the drug operation, including firefighters. Several frightening examples have been discovered, particularly in British Columbia where marijuana growing operations are growing very fast, needlessly threatening the lives and morale of firefighters.

The glaring deficiencies within the Criminal Code of Canada fail to afford and allow on duty firefighters the same provisions as on duty police officers, which places their lives at greater risk. Instances are becoming more prevalent where firefighters, working in co-operation with law enforcement officers, are used on the front lines to break down doors to drug related operations and labs. In these cases the armed police officers are standing behind the firefighters who are the unarmed first line of defence out there on the front lines. The situation is getting worse and these drug related incidents are regrettably on the rise. Realistically, the work environment of firefighters has been dramatically altered. It is time that our law afforded protection under the criminal code for our firefighters who serve and protect our communities in the line of duty.

The criminal code needs to be strengthened by including criminal infractions such as deliberately setting fires or causing some other kind of explosion or hazard that needlessly places the lives of firefighters at risk. It is imperative that legislative amendments be made as promptly as possible to afford protection to the men and women who place their lives at risk in the service of our communities.

Under current criminal law there is no special punishment for arsonists whose actions kill or injure firefighters in the line of duty. This is in spite of the fact that the criminal code does provide special provisions for police officers. Law enforcement officers are protected under the criminal code but firefighters who do similar jobs under similar circumstances are not. Both regularly serve and protect our communities in the line of duty. It is time our laws recognized the similar hazards they face in similar situations.

What is clearly needed is a provision in our criminal code that will cause criminals to think twice before rigging houses to catch fire and injure or kill public safety officials. Obviously our current laws against murder, assault or arson are not effectively protecting firefighters if criminals feel that they can booby trap houses and set fires without fear of reprisal from the government.

Some people might say that our criminal code already recognizes crimes like arson and first degree murder and may be tempted to ask me why my motion is needed. The International Association of Fire Fighters agrees that Motion No. 376 specifically addresses the issue of amending the criminal code to specify tougher sentencing provisions for acts of arson that kill firefighters acting in the course of their duties. In legal terms, the measures that would be put in place by Motion No. 376 are called a specific deterrent effect, which seeks to prevent criminal acts that can harm or kill firefighters from ever happening in the first place.

My motion also calls on the government to amend subsection 231(4) of the criminal code dealing with first degree murder and section 433 dealing with the offence of arson to specify that a person is liable to a minimum of life imprisonment. It is correcting what should have been intended in the first place. It calls on the government to add language that addresses the death of a firefighter fighting a blaze that is deliberately set.

There is also a need to amend section 268, which deals with aggravated assault, specifying that liability be increased to a maximum term of 10 years. Firefighters can be protected from assault that maims, wounds, disfigures or endangers them during the course of their duties. These are the threats they face from the hazards of illegal drug operations. Mr. Lorne West, the president of the Surrey Firefighters Association, which has 350 professional firefighters in the city of Surrey, tells me from his personal experience that there are malevolent devices out there that are used with the intention of indiscriminately killing anyone entering those illegal operations.

When I wrote about these concerns to the former justice minister she thanked me for bringing these issues to her attention and she assured me that her officials were considering the matter. I would submit that the time for studying this issue is over. Now it is time for the government to take action. It is the federal government's exclusive responsibility and it is within its mandate to amend the criminal code to protect firefighters.

I sincerely believe that this motion deals with matters of significant public policy interest since our neighbourhoods are vulnerable to fire incidents at any time, anywhere. It is these brave men and women firefighters who will be there to protect our lives and our property.

I have received many letters of support for my motion from firefighters' groups both locally and nationally. On behalf of its 17,000 Canadian members, the International Association of Fire Fighters has repeatedly expressed its support for my motion and appreciation for my efforts on behalf of its members. The Surrey Firefighters Association, on behalf of its 350 members, professional firefighters of the city of Surrey, expressed its appreciation and support. The Canadian Association of Fire Chiefs has 1,000 members. Its executive committee unanimously supported the motion and applauded me for my efforts. In a letter, the former minister of justice and attorney general of Canada thanked me for my views with respect to these important issues of public policy in response to my request for prompt attention and action.

Motion No. 376 goes beyond issues of purely local interest. Surely firefighters in New York and Canada deserve equal protection. Other jurisdictions have already taken steps to enshrine protection for their firefighters in criminal law. For example, in the United States, the states of California, Nevada, Illinois, Georgia, Idaho, Massachusetts, Montana and Mississippi have recently amended their criminal laws to recognize acts that cause the death or injury of a firefighter.

Thus, I think it only makes sense for Canada to bring itself up to speed with these developments by adopting the motion we are debating, Motion No. 376. By the way, Canada has not yet established a public safety officers' benefit program, or PSOB, a fund that would provide benefits to widows of firefighters, police officers and other public safety officers killed in the line of duty. Recently firefighters were shot while on duty. The public safety officers' benefit needs to be established.

The motion is completely non-partisan and will serve all our communities and all 301 constituencies in the House. It deserves support from all parliamentarians across all party lines, thereby correcting an injustice to our firefighters. I trust that the wisdom of all members in the House will prevail to initiate action and bring in the relevant criminal code amendments.

I have had many motions and bills on the order paper in private members' business before the House, but I have selected this motion because it is really important from the point of view of justice being done in the criminal code for firefighters. I had an opportunity to pick any motion when my name was drawn. I picked this motion.

Recent events have served to raise the profile of the hazards faced by firefighters in the line of duty. September 11 has shown us the death toll inflicted on firefighters among others. It has helped the whole world to realize the dangers firefighters face in coming to the rescue of our fellow citizens. While the government cannot do anything about the senseless loss of life, including firefighters' lives, in New York, Washington and Pennsylvania, the government can do something about what goes on in this country. The government can amend the Criminal Code of Canada to provide protection for firefighters. The government can stand up for our firefighters by adopting the measures called for in Motion No. 376. The severe penalties proposed in the motion are designed to deter those who would deliberately set fires.

Motion No. 376 would make firefighting safer and would provide firefighters with the full protection of the law. Polls show that firefighters command the highest respect rating of any profession, followed by nurses. Politicians and lawyers are way behind. We have to do something for those who are serving our communities, who are putting their lives at risk.

It is time our nation protected the protectors. Since my time is over I submit that the time for studying this issue is also over. It is time for the government to take action. I urge all members in the House to support the motion.

Madam Speaker, I seek unanimous consent of the House to make the motion votable.

[Supply, March 14th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise in the House on behalf of the people of Surrey Central and British Columbians in general to take part in the debate on the official opposition's motion regarding softwood lumber.

This is a very important issue in various communities, particularly in British Columbia, where thousands of jobs have been lost, businesses have been crumbling and communities have been hurting because of mismanagement of this issue by our federal government.

Today the Canadian Alliance is using its supply day for the important issue of softwood lumber. It seems to me that all parties in the House are supporting it. It is due to the ineffective, weak and submissive position of the Liberal government that led us into this chaotic situation. The hon. member for Vancouver Island North, who is the international trade critic for the Canadian Alliance and the former international trade critic, the hon. member for Peace River, who has just spoken on this issue, have highlighted some of the weaknesses in our trade policy. I would like to spend some time looking into the background of this issue.

In 1987 John Turner, then leader of the official opposition, said that Prime Minister Brian Mulroney had abandoned his federal leadership responsibilities by proposing higher prices for softwood lumber exports to the United States. The Liberals also said that in offering a 15% price hike as a substitute for a new American tariff, Mulroney sacrificed the national interest to regional concerns.

Back then Turner accused Mulroney of selling out the national interest which demanded that Canada resist the American duty through an uncompromising legal and diplomatic fight. When in opposition the Liberals called on the government to have the matter decided through the forerunner of the WTO, the GATT, to find a solution rather than dealing bilaterally with the Americans who were intent on imposing a hefty duty on softwood lumber. This was true when the Liberals were in opposition. Why is it not true now when they are in government?

Softwood lumber agreements were signed in 1986 and 1991 but when the Liberals came into power they signed the agreement in 1996. In a massive flip-flop Canada signed a softwood lumber agreement in which it agreed to cap Canadian shipments to buy some peace with the Americans. The peace was not to last or we would not be debating this issue here today.

They have been abetted in this by a Liberal government that failed to intervene earlier in the process before the 1996-2001 period when the softwood lumber agreement expired.

Turner called it the greatest sell out in the history of negotiations with the U.S. Today it seems not to be free trade but a managed trade dominated by the bigger elephant. It seems like a veritable capitulation by the Canadian government to pressure from the United States lumber interests.

What is at stake is our sovereignty and ability to create our own resource policies in our country. If the policies of the government are not working we should probably look into reviewing our international trade policies. Unlike the government, the Americans know they hold a stronger hand in any bilateral trade negotiations. Why? Because 87% of our exports are destined for their country. We have the largest bilateral trade with the Americans. Canada supplies about one-third of the softwood lumber used in the United States.

They take advantage of our trade, economic situation and dependency on them. They know that the Canadian government will not be doing anything to jeopardize all this trade by playing hardball with softwood or other industries. Like the Canadian Alliance they also know that the Canadian government is a soft touch when it comes to negotiations.

I was talking to one American senator who was surprised at how Canadians were negotiating with the U.S. He was talking to me in confidence. He said that when Canadians come to the negotiating table they are not well-prepared. When Americans are sitting at the table they are determined to win the negotiations whereas their Canadian counterparts are not fully prepared. They do not do their homework properly to prepare for negotiations whether it is on fisheries, softwood lumber or any other industry.

The motivation of the Americans, driven by U.S. lumber interests, is to keep as much Canadian timber out of their market as possible. The only motivation behind the measures being suggested by the Americans is to drive up the price of Canadian softwood lumber relative to U.S. timber to reduce its supply in the U.S. market. This is a demand and supply situation. This is true whether it takes the form of reduced stumpage fees or countervailing duties.

Part of the conflict arises from the Bush administration's backing of the U.S. forest industry's bid to hit Canadian lumber with billions of dollars in duties. Canadian exports south of the border are charged a 19.3% countervailing duty, a tax applied on imports found to be unfairly subsidized, that the American government imposed on Canadian exporters earlier this year. Then there is the anti-dumping duty of 12.57% introduced in October 2001. Dumping is a term used to describe the sale of goods to another country at less than what it costs to produce them.

The two duties were applied separately in the period since the expiration of the softwood lumber agreement between the Canadian and U.S. governments which governed exports from April 1, 1996 to March 31, 2001. Under the agreement, the U.S. guaranteed market access to Canadian exporters for five years and permitted the import of 14.7 billion board feet per year of lumber without fees. It applied to $10 billion worth of lumber manufactured in British Columbia, Alberta, Ontario and Quebec.

About two years ago, along with the member for Vancouver Island North, I organized some meetings in my constituency and neighbouring constituencies. We met with lumber mill owners and people who were working in the industry, as well as the remanufacturing industry of the wood. I was surprised at how those people felt. They felt that the government was not doing the right thing and they warned the government then. The international trade critic from the official opposition of Canada has risen from his seat time and time again and raised this issue but the Liberals did not take any action.

When the U.S. coalition for fair lumber imports commenced the court challenge against Canada's lumber industry on April 2, 2001, it asked for a countervail duty rate of 40%. When the department of commerce made a preliminary determination in August 2001, a duty of 19.3% was imposed.

The most recent request by the U.S. coalition for fair lumber imports is asking for a 50% duty. It is using this as a bargaining tactic. It is an attempt to gain some leverage for bullying and an attempt to stampede Canada into a bad deal prior to the March 21 deadline. It should not be given any credibility; rather, it should be vigorously opposed.

On March 21 the U.S. department of commerce will make its final determination. I ask the government to stand by its nerve, negotiate with the Americans and be firm on their position to protect our lumber industry. We all know that the Canadian government cannot negotiate with the Americans. When we were debating Bill C-55, the heritage minister threatened the Americans by saying they were affecting the steel, plastic, auto, and textile industries. However, when the stuff hit the fan and they started their offence, the minister caved in.

The Canadian government should not cave into the Americans. It should protect Canadian interests, the interests of British Columbians and others where the livelihoods of people are affected.

I urge the government that if its policy does not work it should change it.

[Supply, March 14th, 2002]

Madam Speaker, I appreciate the comments of the hon. member. This issue of softwood lumber is very important for all Canadians, particularly people like me who come from British Columbia where it is so absolutely important to the survival of the province. Many communities in B.C. depend on softwood lumber.

The hon. member talked about the bullying tactics of the Americans. I tend to agree. I have seen it happen on two fronts since I have been in the House, on fisheries as well as on softwood lumber. We have had this unfortunate situation in dealing with these two files with the Americans. At the same time, Americans are our neighbours. I think we need to co-operate and have a co-operative environment on various issues. We need to have free trade with them. We can always create a synergy of our resources and approaches with our neighbours.

First, I would like to know how the hon. member would balance having a co-operative approach, because the softwood lumber issue will be affecting various other industries and many other items on the agenda of co-operation and friendship between our two countries.

Second, how does the member see this hardball approach the Americans are taking with us, such as they did on Bill C-55 in the past, which affected the steel, plastics, textiles and agricultural industries and so on? What impact on other industries and free trade with America does she see as a result of this file not being dealt with properly?

[Supply, March 14th, 2002]

Mr. Speaker, I highly appreciate the comments by the hon. member, the international critic of the official opposition on the softwood lumber file. He has done tremendous work on it and I commend him for it.

I would like to point out that the issue of softwood lumber is a very important in British Columbia. Many people depend on this issue and file. Their livelihood depends on it. The economy of the province depends on the softwood lumber file to a great extent.

Could the hon. member tell us what the weak federal government should have done in the past to resolve this issue sooner or could he throw some light historically on what the government should have done but failed to do on this file? I would appreciate if the hon. member could throw some light on that.