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Crucial Fact

  • His favourite word was fisheries.

Last in Parliament November 2005, as Liberal MP for Victoria (B.C.)

Won his last election, in 2004, with 35% of the vote.

Statements in the House

Railway Safety April 29th, 1996

Mr. Speaker, the issue of hazardous cargoes on trains, ships or aircraft is closely examined by the department. In the specific area the member has mentioned where there has been concern expressed by local authorities, it is being looked at by the Department of Transport at the present time.

As the member indicated in the preamble to his question, it is a subject that goes back a fair length of time involving rerouting of lines. As soon as I have information on this subject, I will be happy to share it with him.

Quebec City Bridge March 27th, 1996

Mr. Speaker, a $700,000 consultant study was done by the firm Modjesky and Masters which was one of the firms that was consulted when the original bridge was built many years ago. The

study confirmed that the bridge can be maintained and will be as long as maintenance is constant. CN plans to spend approximately $1.5 million to $2 million this summer in repairs to the bridge.

CN is prepared to enter into an agreement with the province of Quebec for a more complete restoration of the bridge in the years ahead. All it is waiting for is a decision by the Quebec department of transport which has the responsibility for this bridge.

May I repeat to the hon. member that this bridge was not built by Canadian National. It was built by the Intercolonial Railway Company. This was a company picked up by CN as it acquired certain bankrupt companies. The federal government had responsibility for it for many years, but as of 1993 its financial responsibility for this bridge ceased.

Quebec City Bridge March 27th, 1996

Mr. Speaker, the federal government is fully aware of how important the Quebec City bridge is. The hon. member should know that the Quebec City bridge was transferred to CN in 1993, which means that the federal government no longer has any economic or financial interest in it.

CN wants to continue maintaining the bridge and will do so, but it also wants to come to an agreement with the Quebec government regarding the repairs to be done within a few years.

Fees For Marine Services March 27th, 1996

Mr. Speaker, I am always ready to listen to representations by the hon. member, and I am always ready to consult my colleagues here.

But the hope for the future of Quebec's ports, for the province of Quebec and for Canada, lies in the results we obtained in the byelections, which indicate that we are now well placed to keep Quebec's ports properly integrated within the Canadian system.

Fees For Marine Services March 27th, 1996

Mr. Speaker, I have not yet reached a decision. If I do make such a decision, I can assure the hon. member that we have no intention whatsoever of isolating the ports in the province of Quebec, or the province itself, as they themselves wish to.

Fees For Marine Services March 27th, 1996

Mr. Speaker, in my capacity as minister, I have not yet reached a decision concerning the organization of Canada's ports, whether in Quebec or in the other provinces.

Canada Transportation Act March 26th, 1996

moved that Bill C-14, an act to continue the National Transportation Agency as the Canadian Transportation Agency, to consolidate and revise the National Transportation Act, 1987 and the Railway Act and to amend other acts as a consequence, be read the third time and passed.

Mr. Speaker, I rise today at third reading of Bill C-14, the proposed Canada Transportation Act. This is an important bill. It introduces new framework legislation that touches every transportation mode. It represents the culmination of several years of effort on the part of the Department of Transport.

It has been at times, as all hon. members know well, a controversial bill. One of the first tasks that I set myself this year as the newly appointed Minister of Transport was to review the proposed legislation and assess for myself whether or not an appropriate balance had been achieved between the varied interests that are affected by the elements of the bill.

After careful consideration and an analysis of the bill, I have concluded that it is a balanced piece of work. It clearly reflects the hours of consultation and careful analysis that have been invested in it over the past few years.

On that basis, I am very pleased to move this bill forward today. It is an act which will truly bring the Canadian transportation industry into the 21st century.

I think it is also important to set this bill in a broader context. It really lies within the scope of our government's policy strategy, which is to streamline and modernize our transportation industry.

Given the importance of transportation in the Canadian economy and for Canada's competitiveness on the world markets, this bill will enhance the nature of trade, viability and competitiveness of transportation.

In drafting this bill, the government took into consideration reports from independent commissions, previous work of the Standing Committee on Transport and the report produced by a task force on marketing headed by the hon. member for Kenora-Rainy River, whom I wish to thank for his great work.

To develop Bill C-14, the government asked itself what those concerned could and should do on the market, which issues would better be left in the hands of the regulatory body and which should be debated by elected representatives.

The opinions weighed as part of this process were many and varied. Finally, the government decided on what it felt should be a new balance, a balance between regulatory protection and trade negotiation as well as between supervising an agency and giving transportation companies more freedom in managing their own business.

Over the summer, the government heard from many stakeholders, who were concerned about certain aspects of the bill. Recognizing that any legislative enactment can always be improved on, it identified several potential changes.

Then, the Standing Committee on Transport carried out an exhaustive review of the bill. It also heard evidence from many stakeholders at this stage. Nearly 100 testimonies were submitted, and I understand that an even large number of briefs were received. All those who took the time and made an effort to take part in this complex process deserve our thanks.

I would like to emphasize the huge contribution made by the members of the committee and many other members who also participated in the bill's consideration during 55 hours of direct evidence.

As evidence of this effort, over 80 amendments to Bill C-14 were made. Some were technical changes. Others were complex and in some instances they reflected differing and difficult choices among competing stakeholders' points of view. However, in all cases, these amendments reflected the careful thought and deliberation that members brought to the legislative process.

As this effort indicates, it is an important bill. It updates or removes economic regulation of transportation modes. For example, alternative means of transportation have made additional regulation of northern air services unnecessary.

We are also modifying the degree of regulatory oversight on northern marine services and regulation of commodity pipelines has been transferred to the National Energy Board.

Turning to the rail sector, I must emphasize that enhancing the viability of the rail industry is a key objective of the legislation. It will set in motion the steps necessary to ensure an effective and viable rail system in this country.

The rail elements of the legislative package complement the strategy of commercializing the CN but they are far broader than that single initiative. They are about enhancing the long term viability of the whole Canadian rail industry. It is important to note that this bill will affect the operations of approximately 31 railways currently operating in Canada.

When the government took office two and half years ago, the two national railways were suffering the effects of a number of structural problems: low labour productivity, under capitalization, excess trackage, to name a few. This had occurred despite considerable work by both railways to reduce costs by various belt tightening measures. Despite being hampered by onerous regulations, both railways have managed to rationalize, reorganize and downsize since 1993.

Outmoded employment security provisions were changed by an arbitration decision rendered last June. Some provincial legislatures have helped out, like my home province of British Columbia, among others. British Columbia recently passed legislation which significantly reduced provincial taxation on railways. Ontario has eliminated its successor rights provisions which applied to the sale of former federal track. I applaud those initiatives.

The federal government decided that it also had to act decisively to put the railways on a more secure financial footing. Commercialization of CN and more important, regulatory reform are directed to this goal. We are moving on this to ensure that we have a viable coast to coast system. In a country reliant on the export of resource materials, a healthy rail sector, the principal carrier of bulk commodities, is an extremely important key to our trading future. A healthy rail industry best serves all stakeholders, not just the railways themselves.

The current system is overbuilt. CN and CP cost cutting efforts have been stifled by the regulatory hurdles that they must jump over to tailor rail line networks to their core markets. At the same time, there have been few incentives in the existing system to market little used lines to the newer short line railways.

Railways must reduce trackage if they are to regain their true financial health. Eighty-four per cent of CN and CP traffic travels on one-third of their networks. It is estimated that some 50 per cent of current CN and CP track is surplus to the main carrier needs as they move to serve their core markets.

The traffic density of the Canadian rail network is presently much less than that of the top seven United States railroads. This means that by moving to similar densities in the range of the United States companies, our major carriers could generate significant savings.

One of the key objectives of this bill to put in place measures to streamline the current regulatory process in relation to the sale, lease or abandonment of lesser used lines. An equally important objective will be the incentive effect it will have on the legislation to establish shortline railways at a lesser cost on many of these lines.

The dramatic increase in the number of shortline railways in the U.S. is one of the major economic achievements of the 1980s. Nothing stops this scenario from being repeated in several regions of Canada, once those elements of the railway transportation legislative framework that did not foster the creation of shortline railways have been removed.

These past 10 months, the concerns raised by shippers and by our two main railway companies have been at the centre of the debates on the transportation bill.

The bill before us today is the product of the contributions made by various stakeholders-officials, interested parties, my colleague the former Minister of Transport, and more recently, the members of the standing committee-toward striking the right balance between their respective interests.

Have they succeeded? This is a question I have asked myself in reviewing this very complex legislative initiative in the two months since I became minister.

First and foremost, Bill C-14 preserves all the key shipper rights won through the National Transportation Act, 1987. These rights are unique to the rail mode and are more extensive than the rights available to shippers in other jurisdictions, particularly in the United States.

To illustrate, the bill keeps regulated rates for captive shippers and adapts them for short line railways. The bill keeps the statutory right of a shipper to final offer arbitration, shortening the process at the shipper's request and extending it to cover rail passengers and commuter service. This bill keeps the provision for confidential contracts between a railway and a shipper.

The decrease in railway prices-nearly 30 per cent since these rates were introduced in 1987-show how much shippers have benefited.

In addition, the bill preserves the traditional obligation of carriers to provide an adequate level of service, or what is commonly referred to as mass transit conveyance obligation, specifying the duties to be fulfilled by a railway in terms of traffic accommodation.

If a complaint is filed, the agency can always order the railway to take corrective measures. No other mode of transportation has this kind of obligations.

The bill also preserves the statutory right of a federal railway to operate on tracks other than federal tracks. This right enhances even more the competitive access of shippers.

Still, in spite of all these measures, shippers have asked the government to make more changes to the bill.

It is well known that shippers wanted section 27(2) deleted, whereby the agency would take into account whether a complainant would suffer substantial commercial harm in deciding whether a regulated remedy was warranted. Because many shippers objected to this provision, the government advanced amendments which replaced the term "significant prejudice" which was formerly used with the term "substantial commercial harm". Other amendments clarify the intent and application of the new terminology. These were two main concerns of the shippers.

Shippers also wanted section 34(1) deleted. This section stipulated that any party to a dispute, which would include railways, must pay the costs if the complaint or behaviour during the conduct of the proceedings was found by the agency to be frivolous or vexatious. Again amendments were made to address the shippers' concerns.

Section 27(2) was rewritten and clarified by government members of the committee and was subsequently adopted unanimously by the standing committee.

Section 34(1) was dropped.

Shippers also wanted section 113, which is now section 112 of Bill C-14, to be deleted whereby the agency would be required to set rail rates and conditions that are commercially fair and reasonable. I find it very hard to accept any argument that a regulated result should not be commercially fair and reasonable. This section however was subsequently clarified to specify that the result must be commercially fair and reasonable to all parties.

Initially, some shippers also wanted to extend to provincial railways the compulsory and mandatory running rights. We have concluded that this was both problematical and unnecessary, and could hinder the development of shortline railways.

I am convinced that this long process has provided an opportunity to review carefully all shippers' concerns and that action was taken regarding several of these concerns. I think that the outcome will be profitable to shippers as well as railways.

We must bear in mind some of the principles underlying the bill. Regulation should be a last resort, since solutions that are freely and mutually agreed upon are the best. A balance must be struck between sometimes incompatible concerns.

Railway companies have one main goal: viability, a goal which is also in the best interest of shippers and-I must say-in the best interest of Canadians as well.

Our common goal is to have a viable railway system, consisting of main carriers and shortlines, which will ensure that railway service will continue to connect as many communities as possible across the country.

To sum up, the objectives for rail which the bill meets successfully are: to promote the long term viability of railways; to foster the creation of short lines; to preserve key shipper rights; to preserve rail service to communities to the extent possible; and to reduce the regulatory burden on railways. It has been an enormous undertaking.

In easing the regulatory burden that had been placed on rail in the past, over 1,000 pages in various statutes have been reduced to just 100. In doing so the bill lifts regulatory intrusions into the railways' day to day business affairs. Most important, the bill streamlines the rail line rationalization process. This is the most effective legislative means of bolstering the railway's efforts to cut costs.

This way, if a buyer comes along, a railway can sell one of its lines without delay to another railway, which will continue to operate it. In the absence of an immediate buyer, the bill provides for a simple process to dispose of surplus rail lines, by encouraging their sale or lease to shortline railways.

However, if sufficient notice has been given and no private or government buyer wants to buy the line, the railway will be authorized to sell it as it pleases.

All concerned, including main railway lines, will benefit from efforts to foster the creation of shortline railways.

The public interest will be protected since the government will have the option of buying a line that no one else wants to operate for rail purposes. This is indeed the best way to promote the continued operation of a viable system from coast to coast.

During the committee's review of the bill, concerns were raised by some about the length of time for governments and others to react when a line might be discontinued. These concerns have been addressed through amendments to lengthen somewhat the time lines at the beginning and the end of the process. For instance, each level of government will now have up to 30 days to purchase a line rather than 15 days in the original bill. Amendments such as the example I have cited demonstrate the government's flexibility and resolve to make this important piece of legislation both effective and fair.

I feel that the bill as now drafted represents an admirable balance. The standing committee and all its members from all parties in the House is to be commended for its excellent work. It is an example of how well the standing committee process can work and how it can handle extremely complex legislative tasks.

The bill will now be considered by the Senate and I look forward to the outcome. Bill C-13 complements other transportation reform initiatives that the government has introduced. The Canadian transportation system must be dynamic and as unrestricted as possible if it is to meet the demands of our changing economy. This legislation, once passed, will achieve this. I am proud to have had a part in its progress at the third reading stage.

Canada Transportation Act March 25th, 1996

moved that the Bill be concurred in at the report stage with further amendments and read the second time.

Civil Air Navigation Services Commercialization Act March 25th, 1996

moved:

That Bill C-20, an act respecting the commercialization of civil air navigation services, be referred forthwith to the Standing Committee on Transport.

Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the motion to refer the civil air navigation services commercialization act to the Standing Committee on Transport. As members know, the navigation system is the network of air traffic control services, flight information services, aviation weather services and navigational aids necessary for the safe and expeditious movement of aircraft across the country.

It is customary for the underlying principle of a bill to be debated before it is referred to the committee. That debate usually occurs at second reading. However, in the case of this legislation the debate has taken place over the course of the past two years, and a very extensive debate it has been.

The government first announced it would study commercialization of the air navigation system in the 1994 budget. Hon. members debated the merits of commercialization at that time.

The not for profit model set out in the legislation was chosen by an advisory committee composed of users, unions and other stakeholders. The committee studied seven different options for commercialization. It consulted with interested parties across Canada. Many Canadians from coast to coast debated the merits of commercialization during the consultative process. I pay tribute to the energy and dedication displayed by members of the committee from all sides of the House in that exercise.

The government announced its decision to proceed with commercialization of air navigation in the 1995 budget. Hon. members were again afforded the opportunity to debate this decision. There has been already considerable debate on the underlying principle of this bill. Because so many have been given the chance to contribute there is today broad support for this piece of legislation.

As the House knows, Nav Canada was incorporated in May 1995 under the part II of the Canada Corporations Act for the purpose of developing, operating and maintaining the air navigation system. Highly successful negotiations have resulted in an agreement in principle between the government, Nav Canada and the involved unions. Under this agreement Transport Canada will transfer the navigation system to Nav Canada for $1.5 billion. This will make a significant contribution to the government's deficit reduction efforts, efforts to which the governor general in the speech from the throne paid tribute a few weeks ago.

Subject to the review and the approval of Parliament and the receipt of royal assent, this transfer is set for July 1 this year, a very significant date in Canadian history.

Nav Canada will receive all the assets used by Transport Canada in the provision of air navigation services. This includes land, equipment and other items required to ensure the system's continued safe and effective operation.

After the transfer Nav Canada will be responsible for providing all of the air navigation services currently provided by Transport Canada including air traffic services, community aerodrome radio services, aeronautical telecommunications, aeronautical information services and aviation weather services.

Transport Canada will be responsible for ensuring the continued safe provision of these services. The new safety regulations developed specifically to address the commercialization of the air

navigation system will be in place before the transfer happens. Transport Canada will monitor and enforce these regulations in much the same way it now does with the air carrier industry.

Nav Canada will be required to have an internal safety management program. In addition, the corporation will not be permitted to reduce the service it provides where it would jeopardize safety. Furthermore, the Aeronautics Act which establishes the regulatory framework to maintain safety in the aviation industry will always take precedence over the commercialization legislation.

I mentioned a moment ago that we have reached agreement in principle with all parties in this project. I underline this includes unprecedented support from the very people who will be most affected by commercialization, the employees working in the system itself. Their support is outlined in a memorandum of understanding between Transport Canada and the employee bargaining agents. Under this memorandum, which was signed last September, current collective agreements will continue to apply. Bargaining agents will have successor rights until Nav Canada and its employees reach their own agreements between each other.

Those who use the air navigational system have likewise endorsed this legislation, and no wonder. The government projects that costs will come down, possibly within two to three years, as private sector management principles take hold of the system, as subsidies are phased out and as the regulations governing the air navigation system are streamlined.

There are concerns of isolated communities and they are reflected in this legislation as well. The act ensures continued provision of air navigational services to northern and remote communities. It also includes a process to involve provincial and territorial governments should any service reductions be proposed by Nav Canada in the future.

Following established practice and in keeping with Nav Canada's national role, the provisions of the Official Languages Act will also apply throughout Nav Canada as if it were a federal institution.

Nav Canada must maintain services to humanitarian or emergency flights in the event of any work stoppage that might occur.

The commercialization of the air navigation system is a key part in the government's efforts to modernize the Canadian transportation system. It complements our other transportation initiatives including the commercialization of federal airports, seaports and harbours, the privatization of Canadian National Railways, the commercialization of ferry services and the conversion of Transport Canada's motor vehicle test centre to a government owned but contractor operated facility.

Commercialization of the air navigation system is consistent also with international trends such as those in Australia, New

Zealand, Germany, South Africa and Ireland. All those countries have opted for some form of commercial air navigation during the past decade.

This transaction is one of the largest commercialization initiatives undertaken by the federal government. It is a model of the co-operation required between public and private sectors. It is also a very visible demonstration of the government's commitment to streamlining its operations and reducing its expenditures as well as its determination to stop providing services that can be better provided by the private sector.

That is a good deal for all Canadians, for taxpayers, by making a $1.5 billion contribution to reducing the federal deficit. It is good for the industry by maintaining safety while increasing the system's ability to respond to changed demands and new technologies.

It is good for users by providing more efficient and cost effective operations. It is good for the system's employees by offering them the opportunity to continue to work and contribute in a new and challenging work environment. It is also good for Nav Canada by setting the stage for it to operate one of the world's best run and safest air navigation systems.

I urge all hon. members to approve the motion to refer the civil air navigation services commercialization act directly to committee. Let us speed up the process of ensuring continued safe, efficient and flexible air navigation services for Canadians.

Canada Transportation Act March 25th, 1996

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the words of my friends opposite, although I believe we should put this in the context of the examination that has taken place in committee.

It is true that our committee members, including opposition members, are bound to listen to and consider any position brought forward. However, this is the difference between this side of the House and the other. It is not simply the weight of people who arrive as witnesses that determine the outcome.

We do not believe we can have our role as government, as representatives of the people of Canada somehow suspended because a group of people, a large number of people, come on one side or the other. We have to analyse the merits of what is said and not simply count up the number of people who oppose or support a particular measure.

With respect to Motion No. 23, the committee did that. It considered the representations made and it came to the unanimous conclusion that this section of the bill did not require immense substantive amendment. In its view a regulatory decision must be accepted as being in good faith and must be considered fair and

reasonable. We cannot accept the intent of this motion which implies the opposite if we have any confidence whatsoever in the regulatory bodies the House sets up.

We do not support this motion, although I can assure hon. members it was carefully considered. The intent put forward is taken care of by the wording of the current bill.

With respect to Motion No. 24, the words listed are "must be commercially fair and reasonable to all parties". Obviously this is a government motion which we support for the following reasons. The provision gives guidance to the agency when it takes over from commercial negotiations between the parties so as to impose a rate or a level of service on the railway.

It is assumed that at the point when it takes over the commercial deliberations between the two parties have broken down. At that point the agency must have the guidance of this section, and it will. It must look at balance to ensure that when it examines the rate it will be fair and reasonable to all the parties.

Some stakeholders have said this phrase is unclear and will create excessive litigation. I do not believe so at all. In my view the average person in the public, the average person watching the televised proceedings of the House today will have pretty good idea in their own mind of what is fair and reasonable.

I think excessive use of the courts to get the lawyers to argue something which is not fair and reasonable, not the common sense meaning, would not succeed when we have a good regulatory agency such as the NTA.

Some litigation is inevitable with any new piece of legislation. It happened with the major transportation bills in 1967 and again 20 years later in 1987 and it will happen with this one. There will be challenges, of course. It happens every time there is a legislative change.

As to the claim that there are going to be hundreds of cases, let me just observe that the costs of litigation make that prohibitive, costs not only in terms of dollars but also in terms of time. These costs fall on all parties. Railways and shippers know that after one, two or three key cases they will have all the clarity they need from the NTA and the courts. What we will get as a result of the change are more successful commercial agreements for the rail service, which is the objective, where both parties and the entire Canadian economy wind up as the winners.

Clause 112 in the Canada Transportation Act, that the rate imposed by the agency be commercially fair and reasonable to all parties, is important and indeed vital for rail renewal in Canada which is obviously in the interests of producers and shippers as well. This will help put the required new balance into the formula for the benefit of all Canadians. Therefore, we definitely support Motion No. 24, just as we must oppose Motion No. 23.